"For a coalition that prides itself on caring about other people"

They care about *being perceived* as caring about other people, not about actually doing anything to help them or to refrain from harming them.

Exactly how much "help" from strangers do you need? For their own part, whatever "they" you disdain would probably ask only that you not infect them with a deadly disease which you might not even know you're carrying.

Those who moan that masks and isolation are theater should explain the lack of flu deaths over the winter.

...the horror of certain women at the prospect of going maskless, because men might say something terrible to them like, "You're very pretty!"

Or worse; that they won't.

The mask is the Western version of the niqab, a veil that allows a woman to hide behind it; one that shields her from the gaze of lecherous men. Or lets her pretend she is thus shielded.

In a mask, a woman does not have to make eye contact, smile, or in any way acknowledge nearby men. She doesn't have to conform to what feminists have taught her the patriarchy expects of her. She can hide behind her mask and sneer.

She can pretend that the tank top and shorts she's wearing don't already leave a great deal of her exposed to any lecherous gazes that might be lingering in the vicinity.

The mask diminished my chin count to a svelte & attractive integer value.

But seriousballs, I don't understand why this is such a big deal. I especially can't understand why people who still wear masks are earning such disdain.

There are people who are terrified of this thing. It doesn't matter that you think they're stupid for that. (They probably are stupid, but not because they fear infectious death.) Additionally many of the people who are terrified, whether stupid or not, are in fact old, overweight or in additional ways immunocompromised.

Perhaps the important part is that people around you are terrified, and reports of millions of deaths continue to stream into their lives from around the globe.

Is it too much to ask for you to wear a mask? Avoiding sarcasm, even as a courtesy? Because if it's really such a burden, what could your fellows citizens expect from you in any other crisis?

Is it too much to ask for you to wear a mask? Avoiding sarcasm, even as a courtesy? Because if it's really such a burden, what could your fellows citizens expect from you in any other crisis? ~ Crid at May 20, 2021 7:40 AM

It's definitely not too much to ask.

If the sign says, "You must wear a mask," then wear a damned mask. Wearing one sucks, but it is a courtesy we can do for each other and it really doesn't cost the wearer much.

It's also not too much to ask that people don't go berserk upon seeing someone not wearing a mask. Perhaps that person is fully vaccinated. Perhaps that person just forgot. I can't count the number of times I've jumped out of my car to run into a store and had to run back to get my mask.

Contrary to the impression given by that Hollywood starlet sitting by the pool or Nancy Pelosi with her luxury freezer full of $30 ice cream, we actually are all in this together. And we should make every effort to be civil to each other in getting through it.

Finally, it's definitely not too much to ask that the CDC, or the government in general, provide consistent guidelines on mask-wearing; or adequately explain changes in the guidelines it does provide. No masks now? What changed?

The article also highlights the problem that Trump faced in dealing with the pandemic. The media criticized him for not taking proper action fast enough. But really, what was going to happen if Trump started saying, "Wear a mask/social distancing/shelter in place/etc.?" The populace would have responded, "You can't tell us what to do!"

Exactly, Conan! And in any OTHER context…

> we actually are all
> in this together.

…Those are fightin' words. But they're completely correct in matters of infectious disease.

Microbes & virii don't GAF. By our biology, we are each 'made,' in the mafia sense... It's a network of outlaws, defying the rules of nature, and you're in. When shit goes down, you're at risk with everyone on the planet. And nearby mobsters are watching carefully, ready to hold you accountable for your conduct.

If you don't like it, give away your money, take off your clothes, walk into the forest and live without contacting anyone else. For anything, at all, ever. Be the independent cowboy of your daydreams.

(That metaphor fails because cowboys are in the business to sell beef to OTHER PEOPLE. In person. For money.)

We haven't seen Cousin Dave in here for about a year, but I think he was the one who used to mumble something about being "born healthy," as if our epidemiological environment had nothing to do with it. I hope he's feeling well.

PS—

> I can't count the number of times
> I've jumped out of my car to run
> into a store and had to run back
> to get my mask.

I've kept track. As of 2:40pm EST yesterday, it's forty-seven. (This county has especially tight restrictions.)

Had both shots; Still not pissed off about the chore. TAXES are worth getting pissed off about, so on Monday I was fuming. But walking back to the car a few times a month?... Not a problem.

The populace would have responded, "You can't tell us what to do!" ~ Fayd at May 20, 2021 8:46 AM

That's the point the anti-Trumpers always gloss over. If he'd ordered masks and social distancing in the beginning, he'd have faced a rebellion. And the anti-Trumpers would have led it because, "orange man wanna be a dictator."

Given the limited power the president has, he did what he could within the restraints of presidential power and the politics of the day. Remember when he issued a travel ban and was immediately denounced as a xenophobe. Nancy Pelosi and Gavin Newsom, in a direct rebuttal to Trump, went to San Francisco's Chinatown and urged people to join them. It was "safe" they said.

Could Trump have done more? Yes. He had the bully pulpit and the regulatory agencies. However, there would have been a political (and personal) price to pay for being Cassandra. There always is. And there's some legitimate doubt that he could have played the role.

Like GW Bush and the then-impending mortgage crisis, Trump was stuck between issuing a dire warning and trying not to panic the public (and the markets).

Both would have had to fight stiff Congressional resistance to turn the ship before it hit the iceberg. As such, both issued lukewarm warnings and downplayed the potential consequences, mixed messages that were later treated as outright lies or negligence.

Biden is stuck in a similar bind. If he ditches the mask mandate too soon, he'll be blamed for every death after it's lifted. If he maintains it, despite multiple vaccines, he's a power-mad authoritarian.

> he did what he could within the
> restraints of presidential power
> and the politics of the day.

Well, it's not like the politics of his day are something for which he bears no responsibility.

Those who moan that masks and isolation are theater should explain the lack of flu deaths over the winter.

Crid at May 20, 2021 7:01 AM

My personal opinion? I don’t think the testing is good enough to distinguish between the two.

There is no doubt that Covid was in the country way before the lockdowns, and a lot of nasty cases in the fall were misdiagnosed as ordinary influenza.

My guess, for the last year the reverse has been happening. Everything with flu like symptoms is being categorized as Covid.

Here’s the real brain twister. If masks are effective at stopping transmission of the flu, why didn’t they stop Covid?

Yet, ironically, the states with the fewest restrictions also seem to have the lowest rates of infection.

One of the answers seems to be that you catch Covid in the home, and in closed up rooms, from being in prolonged contact with another person that has it. Not from walking past some guy in the aisle at Walmart.

See also: Biden, all the rest.

It's almost Schrodinger's cat: The phenomenon is disturbed for being observed.

> I don’t think the testing
> is good enough to distinguish
> between the two.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rapid-flu-tests-only-50-to-70-percent-accurate-cdc-says/

So basically, at worst a coin flip.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/content?templateType=full&urlTitle=/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD013705.pub2&doi=10.1002/14651858.CD013705.pub2&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=

Also, not very good.

I have to say all this covid stuff has been really illuminating about libertarians. Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll paired with fascism isn't a functional political philosophy.

I kinda like my masks. I ordered skirts with matching masks. I ordered masks with butterflies on them. I made some myself.

I thought the whole mask thing was fun.

Could Trump have done more? Yes. He had the bully pulpit and the regulatory agencies. However, there would have been a political (and personal) price to pay for being Cassandra.
____________________________________

Um, NO ONE listened to Cassandra. 74 million listened to Trump. Some said "of course" when asked "would you wear a mask if he ordered you to?" (As opposed to that flimsy recommendation he was finally forced to make.)

Had he simply done everything the doctors recommended, starting in Feb. 2020 (and given them CREDIT for it), even if he would have had to change direction a few times, it would only have been a week or two before doctors everywhere would have been singing his praises, and his enemies would be forced to agree, if silently.

Bottom line: had he done all that, he just might have won the election - including the popular vote.

The author of that piece is looking to take umbrage at every turn. Kinda like the freakout Left.

And it's way too long. And windy.

Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll paired with fascism isn't a functional political philosophy. ~ Ben at May 20, 2021 11:34 AM

Libertarianism is more than sex, drugs, and rock and roll. At least for the adults in the room, it is. Too many who call themselves "libertarians" are little more than spoiled children advocating some unrealistic form of anarchy.

==========

...would have been singing his praises, and his enemies would be forced to agree, if silently. ~ lenona at May 20, 2021 12:38 PM

Even if forced at gunpoint, I think you'd find that his political opponents would not have admitted to his being right on anything or agreed with him on anything. They set out from Day One to destroy him.

His was a singularly divisive presidency; and that was not entirely his fault. Even so, he does bear a significant part of the blame. Like Nixon, he found himself surrounded by those who sought to destroy him, and he did most of the heavy lifting for them.

"I brought myself down. I gave them a sword, and they stuck it in and they twisted it with relish. And I guess if I had been in their position, I'd have done the same thing." ~ Richard M. Nixon

First of all, no doctors were urging the use of masks in February. I love people who have the memory space of gerbil. Doctors, including Saint Fauci, specifically told us that masks weren’t necessary. It was only later that he and the CDC decided that they were. That was like April. The reasons for the lag were that they didn’t want to create a panic or a run on PPE. That decision, made by Fauci and the CDC early on, is what has sown the seeds of confusion and conflict ever since.

Secondly, if you want to get vaccinated and still wear a mask, by all means do so, but I’m fully vaccinated and I don’t want to wear it anymore. The emotional comfort of strangers is not my problem. I took the one concrete action that could help my community, and that was getting the vaccine. I will not wear a pacifier on my face in spaces where it is not required by law or custom just to make someone else feel “safe”.

Just a note about mask efficacy. Once, while walking into a store fully masked, I walked by someone who chose that moment to blow the smoke from his cigarette in my general direction. This person was the standard 6 feet away and probably thought nothing of it, but I got a face full of cigarette smoke. It was just like I wasn’t wearing a mask. Cigarette smoke particles are significantly larger than COVID particles and they went right through my mask, so don’t kid yourself, masks are completely worthless.

First of all, no doctors were urging the use of masks in February.
__________________________________

Why do you think I mentioned that he would have had to change directions a few times? Jeez.
___________________________________

Secondly, if you want to get vaccinated and still wear a mask, by all means do so, but I’m fully vaccinated and I don’t want to wear it anymore.
_____________________________________

Same here. What do you know...

People here are pretty polite, so it's easy enough to stand apart and wait until we get permission to assemble in crowds. Also, it's worth remembering that no one likes a stranger who keeps close behind on the sidewalk - it's scary. The stranger is supposed to speed up or fall back.

But seriousballs, I don't understand why this is such a big deal. I especially can't understand why people who still wear masks are earning such disdain.

Totally with you here. Plus, there's no way to determine if someone is vaccinated or not. So, at this point (vaccination rate hovering around half in much of the U.S.), I see the reason for having masks in tight places (public transit, planes, crowded places). Or where people have to get within a few feet of each other indoors (stores).

If the sign on the door says wear a mask, I'll wear it. If not, I don't, b/c I'm vaccinated. Nobody has said anything to me. I mind my own business, too.

It's becoming clear that COVID spreads best when people are close together, talking, singing and indoors with poor air circulation. So as bars and restaurants get packed again, vaccination is going to replace masking as the Thing to Do. I was just in a small town in Alaska (on vacation), and it was experiencing the worst COVID outbreak it's seen since this whole pandemic started. An unmasked indoor sports thing (involving mostly young people) spurred a bunch of cases. And one of those cases went to his restaurant job and to bars and spread it around. So pretty much all restaurants and bars closed. A cruise ship (one of the small ones, which are actually allowed through Canadian waters) was supposed to stop in town, the first one all season. And it passed by because nowhere was open for those 200 people to eat. The restaurant guy (as I learned through the gossip mill) had gotten COVID last year, so this was his second time. Business owners were pissed. Lots of "CLOSED. Get vaccinated, and save small businesses" signs on doors.

It was just like I wasn’t wearing a mask. Cigarette smoke particles are significantly larger than COVID particles and they went right through my mask, so don’t kid yourself, masks are completely worthless.

Mask wearing has always been more about reducing the range of your own spewed germs than about protecting you from others' spewed germs.

If that guy had put on his mask to exhale (not that he would, but ...) and blown smoke into his own mask (again, not that he would), you'd have gotten less of a whif. Heck, if he'd even breathed out into his own shirt.

Side note: breathing cigarette smoke onto others is just nasty behavior.

"Libertarianism is more than sex, drugs, and rock and roll. At least for the adults in the room, it is." ~Conan

Then there are no adults in the Libertarian Party. (The guy with a wizard robe and a shoe hat also indicates that) But beyond just the party I've seen few intellectuals and writers self identifying as libertarian who's actions meet your definition of an adult.

As I said this has been most educational. There pretty much aren't any adult libertarians.

"Plus, there's no way to determine if someone is vaccinated or not." ~Sofar

Why does that matter?

Do you know who is current on their mumps vaccine? Measles? Rubella? Tuberculosis? Flu? Polio?

You protect you. Let other people protect themselves.

"Mask wearing has always been more about reducing the range of your own spewed germs than about protecting you from others' spewed germs." ~Sofar

Uh oh! Now Crid will have to harass you for months on end.

Why does that matter? Do you know who is current on their mumps vaccine? Measles? Rubella? Tuberculosis? Flu? Polio?

Polio, measles, tuberculosis and mumps currently aren't a major public health concern in the U.S. (and polio was never easily transmitted in normal personal encounters anyway). And MMR and TDAP vaccines are available for anyone who wants one. As for the flu, the bulk of the population can get shots super easy (one and done). If we had a strain of the flu as virulent as COVID and that year's vaccine was ineffective and limited in supply, maybe we see businesses requiring masks during flu season (but I doubt it).

COVID vaccine is just at that tipping point for accessibility and much of the younger population is only just now becoming eligible to get their second shot. That leaves a lot of people who work indoors with the public vulnerable (not for much longer, thankfully). Hence it still makes sense some businesses may choose to require masks, to give their staff a little more time to get fully vaccinated.

Air/train travel is unique, obviously, but I'm guessing businesses not bound by federal law will drop the mask thing within weeks. I can be convinced of the logic of requiring masks at airports, on planes, trains, etc., because it basically entails shuffling vaccinated and unvaccinated around in large numbers with people from areas with different strains and assigning them seats practically on top of each other. I wonder if hospitals/doctors' offices might hang on to mask requirements too.

> at worst a coin flip

At best, explaining, and indirectly, a tiny fraction of the statistical phenomenon. And does this mean people trust the CDC again?

> Libertarianism is more than sex,
> drugs, and rock and roll. At least
> for the adults in the room, it is.

It's distinctly unconcerned with the wounded little ones who think Fauci's running the CDC.


> Cigarette smoke particles are
> significantly larger than COVID
> particles and they went right through
> my mask, so don’t kid yourself,
> masks are completely worthless.

This is not the reasoning of a medical professional. It's not the attitude of an adult, either. Perhaps if you wanted to distinguish droplets & aerosols, or reflect on anything more noble than butthurt.


The most frequent distinction of Covid assholes is an inability to locate their presence within an eternal biological network: The want coddling solutions which affirm stupidity as a survival strategy, flattering their needful delusions of cowboy independence. They literally do not know where they live.

> His was a singularly divisive
> presidency; and that was not
> entirely his fault.

Our friend Dave Burge slammed his pickup into another liquor store this week, but that's not entirely his fault. Eventually we have to assign some of the blame to his 1997 F-150 for its reliance on brakes to protect surrounding people and property from damage by reckless drivers.

Of course being "singularly divisive" is his fault!

Then there are no adults in the Libertarian Party. (The guy with a wizard robe and a shoe hat also indicates that) But beyond just the party I've seen few intellectuals and writers self identifying as libertarian who's actions meet your definition of an adult. ~ Ben at May 20, 2021 4:44 PM

Don't confuse libertarians with the Libertarian Party.

Our friend Dave Burge slammed his pickup into another liquor store this week, but that's not entirely his fault. Eventually we have to assign some of the blame to his 1997 F-150 for its reliance on brakes to protect surrounding people and property from damage by reckless drivers. ~ Crid at May 21, 2021 4:59 AM

Burge? In an F-150? That seems counterintuitive.

On the subject of Trump, leading Democrats were calling for his impeachment even before the inauguration. Let's not pretend he entered a political environment that was conducive to normal give-and-take politics.

Nope. Instead, the Democrats screamed "Russian collusion," accused him of stealing the election, and began searching for impeachment grounds from day one. When they couldn't find one, they made one up. When he finally gave them one, they turned that into a circus, too.

Despite the incompetence and underhandedness of the Democrats, Trump was, in the end, his own worst enemy and forged the sword that would be used to gut him.

It was the frog and scorpion writ American. And, while scorpions gotta be scorpions, frogs who agree to carry them across the river deserve what they get.

The Nixon quote I provided earlier works for Trump, too. The difference is that Nixon was smart enough and introspective enough to realize and admit his errors. Trump, so far, is not. Instead, he's doubling down on those errors.

It would be a huge mistake for the Republicans to run Trump in 2024. Even if the Democrats run Harris, another huge mistake.

"Don't confuse libertarians with the Libertarian Party." ~Conan

There honestly is little difference between the Libertarian Party and notable libertarian writers and thinkers. The writers work hard to keep up a facade of respectability. But that is all it was, a facade, and with covid/Trump they tore it down. Are there lots of individual libertarians who are honest and respectable? Sure. But so what? That is true of most any grouping. If your leaders and representatives are nut jobs then your movement is one of nut jobs.

"If we had a strain of the flu as virulent as COVID and that year's vaccine was ineffective and limited in supply, maybe we see businesses requiring masks during flu season (but I doubt it)." ~Sofar

This year's covid vaccine isn't effective against many of the current strains. But that is neither here nor there as far as current business decisions are being made. For most of the US mask/not mask is a political decision still, not a business one. Government is setting the rules. And even where government permits not masking lawfare is being used by politically activist groups to force their way.

Rosenfelt is right that this isn't a medical decision. It is a political one. Honest health concerns aren't involved.

I hate Trump, I hate his politics, I hate many of his policies (with some exceptions), I think he is a raging asshole and was a terrible president

BUT

Conan is not wrong. Though it isn't limited to Trump. Obama had the whole people denying his Americaness with the birth certificate thing, there was Bush and the hanging chads, and Clinton and his blow job.

It seems no matter who is elected the other party tries to find some pretext why their presidency is not valid.

I for one am sick of it.

Accept we lost, and work with what we've got. Both parties. Everyone.

> Mask wearing has always been
> more about reducing the range of
> your own spewed germs than about
> protecting you from others'
> spewed germs.

Exactly.

Antimask idiots miss this point entirely. They can't believe the effort isn't about making

• THEM SPECIFICALLY

• PERFECTLY SAFE

• FOR PENNIES

• IMMEDIATELY

> Let's not pretend he entered a
> political environment that was
> conducive to normal give-and-take
> politics.

Nor should we affirm that "normal give-and-take politics" were something he was concerned with; rather, he preferred the polity be reconfigured as a bitchy slapfest between competing candidates for Junior High Prom Queen.

He was the problem he wanted to be.

3:47 am

THANK you, Crid.

If only more people would focus on science rather than on knee-jerk reactions...

It reminds me of how adults used to complain that seat belts mess up their clothes.

He was the problem he wanted to be. ~ Crid at May 21, 2021 6:18 AM

Yes, he was.

He saw himself as a disruptor, a la Amazon or Uber. He saw himself disrupting politics-as-usual by coming in and actually getting something done - like he might in a privately-held company. His prior experience was solely in a privately-held company started and owned by his family, which left him with no experience negotiating with a board of directors or non-aligned but entrenched interests within the company.

What he failed to understand, or deliberately ignored, is that politics is how things get done in Washington, DC. His lack of political skills, or deliberate ignorance of them, meant he was mostly on his own in a sea of politicians. Had he listened to, or taken the advice of, any number of sympathetic DC figures, his might have been a much more productive presidency.

The lack of political skills in our last few presidents has been appalling. Both Obama and Trump saw themselves as saviors of their respective causes, as outsiders who could triumph where the insiders dallied and dithered. Both failed to forge political alliances, even within their own parties. Both failed to understand how political capital works, to amass it, and to use it. Both had some tactical successes, but were strategic failures.

Biden sees himself in a similar light, but he is, at best, a puppet being stage-managed by party hacks.

While it is popular to suggest that politic-as-usual is bringing America down, and that an outsider is needed to get anything done, our next president should probably be someone with extensive political experience, someone who can play the game well; someone who won't see himself or herself as the Chosen One.

> He saw himself disrupting politics-
> as-usual by coming in and actually
> getting something done

1. I don't believe that for a moment.

2. His interior conditions are nunnamy beeswax.

3. But I don't believe that for a moment. There's no reason to think this guy had any feelings about leadership or service in the commonweal whatsoever. He wasn't a great businessman, he just played one on teevee. He wasn't good at making deals, he was good at getting suckers to sign contracts, stiffing them, and taking his chances in court. He was never even one of the top ten RE developers in New York City, and none of his properties have have had any notable impact in matters of design other than sharing his own tawdry name and bad (or cheap) taste.

I can't understand why you'd ascribe so much intentionality to his conduct. He heard there was a famous job called "President," decided he might like to have it, and achieved it through the 8th-grade bitchmoaning (e.g., making fun of other candidate's dorks in debates) by which he's befouled marriages, families, and countless business opportunities.

May have mentioned it before, but Marion Tupy described our recent presidents as sufferers of narcissism, insanity, and now dementia.

"Is it too much to ask for you to wear a mask? Avoiding sarcasm, even as a courtesy? Because if it's really such a burden, what could your fellows citizens expect from you in any other crisis?"

I gave a few years to the military. I'm not going to say that my volunteering was entirely altruistic but that sure as hell was a great deal of it. I had this whole patriotic thing that motivated me back in the day. I'll get the vaccine to protect myself. I'll wear the mask for civilities sake inside a business that asks me to do so. However, the science has never indicated any real need for this. Not only now that the CDC has finally stated it but for the last year when they said wear a mask indoors. All it has ever been is a visual indication for people to feel something is being done. As sheep mom said, your emotional comfort is not my problem. I have done my bit and I didn't do it for your thanks.

"the science"

I mean, you won't take the point, but you'll dip it in shit and smear it on the table: Your idea of community participation means "your emotional comfort is not my problem."

Because "Gave a few years to the military."

"I mean, you won't take the point ..." ~Crid

Because your point is false.

https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1389594264397443077

Maybe let go of the hate and poorly done sarcasm and takes some advice from Jordan Peterson. Maybe learn how to read scientific works. It is never too late to improve yourself.

Homework from Ben? "False"?

Well, at least you read some of your sources on masks. It is funny how you now repeat exactly what I told you all those months ago. It would be nice if you were even better informed but progress is progress.

I agree with Crid (a rarity indeed)--wearing a mask when indoors around people who might catch something from you is simple courtesy. However, it should never have been mandated by law, except in government buildings. Other businesses should have been free to set their own policies, with employees and customers free to enter the premises or not based on those policies.

Rex, that doesn't sound like you agree with Crid at all.

Crid's exact words: "Is it too much to ask for you to wear a mask? Avoiding sarcasm, even as a courtesy?" That's what I agree with.

What a bunch of shit.

“Mask.” Sorry, they are not all created equal.

“Fully vaccinated.“ Really? After report after report after report shows that the vaccination is not 100% effective in any case, AND different strains are appearing already?

Your survival because of prophylactic means is not guaranteed. That is wishful thinking. In the end, either your immune system will deal with this, or it will not… And you will not be able to appeal the decision.

Be sure to cry!

The problem Rex is that isn't all that Crid said. And he couldn't do "Avoiding sarcasm, even as a courtesy?" for a single message. Crid is a great fan of using government force to make people wear masks. Even in situations where they make no sense.

For what it is worth, what you said is what I've advocated for roughly a year. I would love for the US to adopt the asian habit of people who know they are ill wearing a mask in public. But I am also a big fan on honesty and being informed. Masks are not a new thing. Research on them and their effectiveness also isn't new.

Unfortunately covid has shown itself to be very well adapted to cold environments. Hence in indoor settings masks are not as effective with covid as they are with many other diseases. If you think there is a real risk for you or the person you are visiting you may want to find another way to do your current task. Not everyone can vaccinate, though those at real risk who can should do so. Also it is hard to tell just how far covid will spread indoors. It passes quite happily though most air conditioning units. In buildings with central air for multiple apartments or offices you can easily infect someone in a different room and even on a different floor. Even if you wear a mask. The 6 foot stuff is a political number, not a scientific one.

Only you know what you are doing. Only you can judge your risks and what you are willing to risk. You will have to be responsible for the choices you make.

> Crid is a great fan of using
> government force to make people
> wear masks.

Just you

You asked what someone could expect from others. So yeah, Crid, I gave a few years to the military. Nobody drafted me. Nobody forced me. I made a conscious decision. I knew what joining the military meant and I volunteered to do so. My community participation was actual participation in an organization to protect the community not just wearing an ineffective covering on my face and bleating how horrible the folks who don't see that as necessary happen to be. Keep signaling your virtue, amigo.

And thank you for not taking the paycheck, or accepting any of the bennies.

"gave"

"And thank you for not taking the paycheck, or accepting any of the bennies."

"gave"

LOL. No, I did not forgo my pay or benefits. I have nothing but appreciation for the taxpayers that gave me the ability have some pleasure outside of the constraints of the service.

Somehow, and it will never be clear how, you imagine that the course of life which you chose for your own fulfillment ("LOL") now diminishes your responsibility to protect the lives of others from infectious disease. Which might make them wonder if you'd really have been on the team in times of armed conflict.

Ah, so you really have no valid response when someone answers your question other than to denigrate that service while the best you can offer is to wrap your face in your own perceived virtue.

Your 'answer' seems to be 'Back off, man… I was in *the service*.' In matters of infectious disease, this seems non-responsive.

But I *am* pretty fabulous.