Could Have One Person And One Dead Person Driving The Train
And do just fine. But...
@walterolson tweeted:
Labor unions have been lobbying federal regulators to mandate that all freight trains operate with two-person crews in the cab, despite automation. But piling unneeded costs on rail shifts usage to trucks, at potential costs both environmental and financial.
From a Reason piece by Eric Boehm, who explains that "positive train control (PTC), essentially a computer-based override system that monitors speed and track signals to avert collisions":
With PTC systems handling many of the in-cab duties that were formerly the rail conductor's responsibility, railroads are seeking to reassign some of those workers. Because rail conductors typically do equipment inspections and perform other duties before trains depart from rail yards and after they return, some will continue to work in that capacity. But any changes to the employment structure have to be approved as part of collective bargaining.The unions' lobbying efforts can best be understood as a way to gain the upper hand in those negotiations. If the federal government mandates two-person rail crews, railroads won't be able to negotiate other arrangements.
During the waning days of the Obama administration, the unions nearly got what they wanted. In 2016, the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) proposed a rule mandating two-person crews. But after investigating the issue for several years, the FRA concluded in 2019 that the mandate was not "necessary or appropriate for railroad operations to be conducted safely."
Case closed--unless Congress gets involved, which is exactly what could happen this year as part of Biden's infrastructure plan.
The president, as you may have heard, is a big fan of trains. And the White House has set ambitious goals for reducing America's carbon emissions during the next few decades. Trains could be a major part of that, because moving one ton of cargo one mile by truck emits several times as much carbon dioxide as moving it by rail.
But mandating that the railroad industry employ twice as many people to drive each train means higher costs. A 2015 study by Oliver Wyman, a consulting firm, and the AAR found that switching from two-person to one-person crews could save railroad companies as much as $2.5 billion over a decade. Those savings could reduce the cost of rail freight, making train transportation more economical. That in turn could mean fewer exhaust-spewing trucks on America's highways.
Despite the potential environmental benefits, siding with the railroads could alienate Biden's labor union allies. Still, without clear and convincing evidence that two-person crews are necessary for trains to operate safety--and with PTC doing a better job of preventing accidents than humans used to--there's no compelling reason for the government to get involved in this dispute. Private railroads and unions can make their own arrangements.
If Biden needs more convincing, he should check in with his beloved Amtrak. The government-run passenger rail system dropped its own two-people-in-the-cab mandate back in the 1980s.
Horrifying Runaway Train: San Bernardino train disaster SP 7551 East | Mayday | Wonder
https://youtu.be/0NS84qoYV_Y
Jay J. Hector at August 29, 2021 11:35 PM
You want one person in control? Maybe a look at how many derailments occur annually would be a good idea. Be sure to recognize how many switches have unintelligent signals.
I have two cousins who are train controllers. They've mentioned issues with trains stuck between depots due to hours-on-watch restrictions for existing crews. Maybe they support automation, but I don't know how this is any smarter than fully-automatic aircraft.
Radwaste at August 30, 2021 4:43 AM
Long term, unions that try to "save" union jobs by mandating unnecessary workers will cut their own throats. If companies won't resist these trends of inefficiency, those industries will die. And the unions will die with them.
I've seen this over and over again in my lifetime. There's a reason there isn't a functioning steel mill in Pittsburgh anymore.
Just look at fast food restaurants, and those new kiosks where you input and pay for your own order. And then see how few people they have maintaining the counters any more.
ruralcounsel at August 30, 2021 5:27 AM
Many of those hours-on-watch restrictions were created when driving a train was a physical job - wrestling the controls and shoveling coal.
When I worked for a subsidiary of a railroad in the '80s, the unions were insisting on a crew of two, an engineer and a fireman, despite the fact that coal no longer needed to be shoveled from the hopper to the boiler. Later, the fireman job morphed into the rail conductor job.
Unions generally resist changing established requirements with the advent of technology; a practice which restricts the adoption of new technology in work processes.
The urge for a $15/hour minimum wage is driven by the same misunderstanding that labor costs do not add significantly to the price of a good or service, that a company can absorb such costs by reducing profit levels, management pay, or CEO pay; and that increasing labor costs will not result in increased prices for consumers.
Conan the Grammarian at August 30, 2021 6:06 AM
While you're looking into those derailments, make sure to note how many were caused by human error, how many by track conditions, and how many by signal confusion.
There are about 31 derailments per year, according to the FRA. The bigger problem is train-car crashes. There are 5,800 of those annually, according to the USDoT as fools think the train can stop as quickly as a car. A 150-car freight train traveling 50 miles per hour will take over a mile to stop!.
Many modern aircraft can land themselves if the pilot is disabled. Airbus has developed a vision-based automatic takeoff capability.
While we're not ready to have a fully automated airliner, we're not talking about fully automating trains either. An engineer would still be on board. The position that has been proposed for elimination is that of the rail conductor, whose job can be done with automated switching with the remaining elements rolled into the engineer's job.
Conan the Grammarian at August 30, 2021 6:21 AM
Sounds like special pleading for Warren Buffett's profit margins. One can always rely upon the Libertarian crowd to slavish serve a handful of billionaires in bed with Communist China. Didn't he get enough sugar when Biden squashed the pipeline and forced all that oil into the trains?
Then again, I remember talking to a Libertarian signature taker who said that, if we brought in uncontrolled immigration from China, well, he'd just evangelize them to the Libertarian platform - don't you know he was super successful at that; why, it rose to 2% once (Was that when Bob Barr was the pretend Libertarian candidate?). The false god democracy will not save the Libertarians.
I've never been a union man, but I see the unions pushing back against the COVID vaccine mandates that are applied hamfistedly, and they may have a resurgence if they provide counterbalance to businesses that are working as cronies with the administration to do indirectly what the government is not allowed to do directly. I expect nurses will heavily unionize soon given the mass firings over being double- (now triple) vaccinated or not.
El Verde Loco at August 30, 2021 6:48 AM
Okay, here's another idea: how far can you drive? Is that how far you want the train to go? Then what? How much time will you lose in the switchyard, or changing drivers?
Truckers now have limits due to safety issues. That's why they have relief drivers.
I mentioned the lack of intelligent switches because a derailment at low speed in a local neighborhood resulted in a chlorine spill. The switch was left {to the siding}.
Radwaste at August 30, 2021 11:47 AM
Train engineers may have fatigue issues, but I'd be surprised if the FRA didn't mandate hours of operation. Not that traveling on a rail that doesn't require steering, just acceleration and braking, is going to be as fatiguing as driving.
In fact, there are legal regulations ...
"The Hours of Service laws (HSL), first enacted in 1907 and most recently amended in 2008, control how many hours train employees, dispatching service employees, and signal employees may work. The statute provides maximum on-duty periods for each group of employees, minimum off-duty periods for train employees and signal employees, and establishes how time on duty is to be calculated. The statute also provides additional limitations on consecutive-days and certain monthly limitations on the activity of train employees."
https://railroads.dot.gov/legislation-regulations/current-initiatives/hours-service
How would another crew member in the engine fix the problem of an incorrectly positioned switch that has to be manually thrown? Or would it just mean a second person for EMS to cart off? It actually sounds like a reason for more automation of the switches.
A brief review of the NTSB accident investigations look more like inattention (engineers texting, substance abuse, and various medical issues. And of course the railroad crossings issue, which is more a problem of a stupid public.
ruralcounsel at August 30, 2021 1:14 PM
For every train that carries stuff across country, you need a fleet of trucks. First to get the goods to the train and then later to carry it to the final destination.
There are one or two exceptions to this, for example rail lines that start at coal mines, and end at coal fired power plants.
Isab at August 30, 2021 4:19 PM
I wonder how resistant US train Engineers would be to adopting Japanese safety practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LmdUz3rOQU
Morgan Ullands at August 30, 2021 5:31 PM
I wonder how resistant US train Engineers would be to adopting Japanese safety practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LmdUz3rOQU
Morgan Ullands at August 30, 2021 5:32 PM
Even Japanese women can drive a train safely at over 250Km/hr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUdMYI5PAM
Morgan Ullands at August 30, 2021 5:37 PM
I wonder how resistant US train Engineers would be to adopting Japanese safety practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LmdUz3rOQU
Morgan Ullands at August 30, 2021 5:32 PM
The trains in Japan are light electric trains. World of difference between those and a couple of big Diesel engines pulling a hundred cars.
Like the difference between a golf cart and a triple trailer diesel Tractor.
Isab at August 30, 2021 5:48 PM
My friend was a manager in a union factory. The head of union's son was under his management and refused to work. When he tried to get him to work, the union boss got him fired.
Union featherbedding makes construction in for example NYC twice as much as it should be. For example, if a job is finished and guys are standing around, they won't clean up: not their job.
cc at August 31, 2021 9:04 AM
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