Columns

Wow, what a problem, and what a very well stated reply.

I think she is trying to get him killed. He dies she gets benifits at his currnet pay scale wich is currently being increased under a hazardous duty pay structure. He come home alive and divorces the cheating (explitive deleted) she gets a portion of a smaller pay check, if anything at all, and she also loses any perifrial benifits like health insurance.

My advice change the account your checks are deposited into to one she can not use

Heartbroken in Tikrit,
Get in touch with someone you trust back home. Let them know you will be sending some paperwork. Talk to your PAC and get this woman off all your accounts. Get this woman out of your life right now. She's going to do what she's going to do and you need to keep your head in the game.
Her selfishness will not go away. Even if your marriage were to survive this kind of betrayal, she will always be a problem in your life. Be thankful that you found out early.
Millions of Americans deeply appreciate your service and wish you all the best. If you are able to get internet access, please send Amy your address and ask her to forward it to martin. I'm an ex-paratrooper (1/504) You don't deserve to be treated like this.

Dear Heartbroken,
It's an unfortunate situation for a couple to be in - so far apart. The relationship suffers. But I agree with Amy and the others that the most important thing right now is to stay alive and get back home.

Under no circumstances should a spouse/S.O EVER, EVER, EVERRRR tell his/her mate "I want a divorce" or "I want to screw the mailman" when that mate is on the war front.

She's lonely, and I understand that, but she knew she was marrying a military man and it's up to her to take responsibility for her own loneliness and prevent it from affecting you in any way while you are away. Your duty right now is to yourself and the men your with. Her duty is to not fuck with your head.

...tell her you love her...write her letters...whatever. And deal with this when you get home. Good luck, sergeant, and watch out for yourself.

Wow, martin, a bit harsh, but I do appreciate where you're coming from. But, couldn't Heartbroken just get in touch with someone back home to first check out the situation before following up with paperwork? Just because she says she's attracted to someone else doesn't mean she's already in his pants. (Unless she is, and then, um, yeah, okay, on with the paper.)

I've seen this sort of thing before. If she mentioned it to him, she's likely already done the deed with the new fella. She's posing it to her husband hypothetically to see how he would react. Being that he's taking it fairly well, she'll later fess up and come back with "well I told you it was a possibility!".

I would call someone at home too, but mostly just to see what she's been up to...

Wow, a bit selfish on her part but here's where I'm curious. If she was gone do the nasty with someone back home then why tell hubby trying not to get killed in hell. She may just be looking for a reaction, stupid though her approach she may just need validation. She may only want proof that he still cares. Her approach is stupid to the point of being homicidal.

She may also think that this stunt will make him come home. I have seen this tried (at least once effectively) with civies who travel a lot. She may simply not understand that he has no choice, or wants him to quite (which he can't do) once he gets home. She may think of this as just a job you can quite at any time.

Her ignorance can get him killed and is therefore inexcusable.

Get home safe soldier, we are all greatful for your service and sacrifice and want to see you home and alive.

Selfish is as selfish does, if you don't mind me paraphrasing the family Gump.
Think of all the reasons why someone would even start this discussion with a man in a war zone, and you have to conclude that this is an incredibly immature and self-centered woman.
Nothing like having to protect yourself from friendly fire from 6,000 miles behind your back, eh?
As to the guy she's underneath (yes, she's already doing him), it just goes to prove that there actually is a lifeform lower than pond scum.
My advice: close the accounts, CYA, and keep your mind on your job until you come home safe.

I'd say he should do whatever it takes to keep his mind on where he is. If he wanted to toss her then he wouldn't have written to Amy he'd have just done it. It might be best for him to forget the conversation completely for now. Just think about the good times until he gets home, then worry about it. If she is such a nasty creature she'll get even with him if he tries to end it. I wouldn't put it past her to send nasty photos of her and several guys once he starts filing the papers. This would be even more distracting and more likely to get him killed.

My empathies to the LW, but I can't resist:

A sailor in the 14th month of his deployment gets a letter from his wife telling him he'll be a father soon. He shares the joyous news with his shipboard buddies, one of whom cautiously asks "Isn't that an unusually long pregnancy?" to which he replies "Hell, no! There's 3 years between my brother and me!"

Things like this kill me: "if I were alone with him..." Simple answer, if you don't want to cheat on your mate, don't put yourself in a position where it's possible. ESPECIALLY when you recognize that you're attracted to someone.

That said, I agree with those who think she's probably already strayed from the reservation. Do what you need to do to protect yourself on that front.

And, finally, thank you so much for serving. I hope you come home safely.

I was a sergeant in LW's same division some time back and many was the time I counseled one of my soldiers with a similar story. They all included "...she’s lonely. It’s understandable..." You don't owe it to her (or him as the case may be) to be miserable. You deserve her faithfulness.

She has resources available. There are wives' clubs and other organizations for people with loved ones overseas. She could go down to the VA hospital and read to wounded vets and go to bed each night thankful that her fellow citizens are willing to risk life and limb for her and that she is married to one of them.

These are not the things she has chosen to do and that's what life is all about, the choices we make. I'd tell him the same thing if we were working the night shift down at the carpet outlet. Flush twice and congratulate yourself for the rest of your sweet life.

Agreed, martin.

Amy, as much as I love your advice usually,(I discovered your column in "Stars and Stripes" at FOB Prosperity in Baghdad), I think you missed the boat on this one. this relationship is probably doomed. The only questions are how much misery will this man endure before he admits it, and how much damage will his lovely bride inflict upon his career before the inevitable end finally comes.(I say "young man" because this sort of problem usually dogs young, relatively newly enlisted Soldiers versus seasoned veterans). I've seen it a hundred timesduring my 17 years of military service. No matter what this Soldier says or does, this woman will probably ultimately betray and leave him. Being a military spouse is difficult - and not just when your husband or wife is on a year-long deployment. Even in peacetime, Regular Army combat arms units maintain rigorous training programs that keep their members away from their families many, many days and weeks each year. This is why we can slice through Saddam's Republican Guard like a hot knife through butter without breaking a sweat. Unfortunately, inconstant young spouses like this poor Soldier's wife are no better able to remain faithful under the strain of the peacetime training tempo than they are the strain of combat deployments. The Army life is a tough life, for family and Soldier alike. It takes maturity and character to do the right thing consistently over the course of the years. Some people have it, some people don't. This young lady probably doesn't, and there is probably nothing this Soldier can do about it.

The worst possible thing he could do would be to get out of the Army to try and save his marriage. That almost never works. What the Soldier in question usually discovers is that Army wasn't the real problem in the marriage after all, with the Soldier ending up in the end without either a marriage or a career.

As to your advice about smothering the young lady with love and affection to stop her from cheating - sorry Amy, that just is not going to work. Again, this is from my observations of Soldiers and their struggles over the years. All this young woman is doing by telling her husband about her affair (and believe me, that is almost certainly what is really going on here) was trying suppress any feelings of ambivalence or guilt on her own part. I hate to be cynical but her motives in writing were probably selfish. The simple fact is that her desire for immediate sexual gratification is more important to her than either her marriage or the feelings of her husband. Not only is it a near certainty that she will act on her impulse, but rather, she probably already has. The fact that she would send her husband such a searingly heart-breaking letter while he is deployed in a combat zone says a lot about her. She probably has a strongly narcicistic strain, and she probably does not really care that much about her husband's feelings. She is certainly very childish and immature. I'm not trying to play junior psychologist, but I have a lot of years experience working with a lot of young Soldiers and their problems. Some patterns emerge over time.

I agree with you to a certain extent. Perhaps the only choice the Soldier has right now is between writing off his marriage now, or writing his wife and trying to convince her to be strong and patient.

However, the latter is only a band-aid. The really tough choice comes when he gets home. He has only two viable options: Divorce her immediately, or stay with her but insist upon fidelity. If he chooses the latter, marital counseling is probably in order.

Knowing what I know now, if I were in this young man's shoes, I would seek counseling from my unit chaplain now, take as much courage as possible, and focus on my job till I got home. Then I would divorce would divorce her. I do not say this out of spite. It's just that it is clear that her personality and character are not compatible with the military lifestyle and they are also not compatible with this young man's expectations and aspirations. There is not point on compromising here - right or wrong, he'll never be happy with less that what he expected going in. I'm not being moralistic or judgmental -this is just a pragmatic assessment of the situation based upon years of experience dealing with Soldiers and their struggles.

There is one section of your reply that I really think was very misguided: "In case there is slippage, consider whether you agree with the idea that without sexual fidelity you have nothing." Amy, I don't pretend to know your private views on marriage and fidelity, but this question seems to imply that you do not believe that sexual fidelity is necessarily required in a good marriage. Whatever your own views on the subject, for almost everybody else, sexual fidelity on the part of their spouse IS a requirement for a good marriage - ironically, even a man who is unfaithful himself wants fidelity from his wife. Hypocritical? Yep. But it is reality. Sexual fidelity is the basic assumption of marriage, whether spoken or not, and whether people admit it or not. To try and live in a marriage with a partner who cannot be faithful is impossible. Either the marriage will fail or the infidelity will take a huge emotional and spiritual toll on the other spouse, robbing them of much of the joy and satisfaction they would otherwise get out of life.

The remainder of the quote - "or whether you see value in trying to forgive her and rebuild" - has more merit, if the spouse is willing to try. Again, however, my experience tells me that forgiving and rebuilding will probably not work out in the end.

My principal hope for this young man is that there are no children involved. In choosing a spouse, he has chosen badly. It will be easier to recover from that choice if there are no children.

Lastly, let me add this: Everything I have said above applies in reverse, too. There are plenty of young Soldiers who can't keep it zipped when separated from their wives or husbands for long periods, too. It certainly goes both ways. And if it were this man's young wife writing you about her Soldier husband considering an affair, I'd say exactly the same things I've said here.

I think you're off track on this one, but I love your column and almost always agree with your advice - my disagreement in this case is a rare exception (full disclosure requires that I concede that I disagree a bit more frequently with your blog posts :) ).

Thanks for taking time to provide some compassion to this young Soldier.

Sincerely,

LTC Dennis P. Chapman
Senior Advisor
3rd Brigade, 4th Iraqi Division
As Sulaymaniyah, Iraq

Col. Dennis, well said good sir. Be safe. Be strong.

Now, just for the fun of it (and now that I’ve had my coffee and my co-workers know they can safely approach me) let’s cut LW’s wife a little slack and give her the benefit of the doubt. Let’s say she truly loves LW and hasn’t betrayed him, yet. Let’s say she felt there was no one she could turn to in her loneliness and wrote to her husband in a combat zone because he is her best friend.

LW just MIGHT be in a headquarters element with regular access to mail, phone and internet and time to think clearly. If so, he has more options in working this out. But more likely, his wife has exponentially more communication options at her disposal. He has to choose his words carefully, decide what he wants to say and get it across succinctly. If his reply to her lament is a gushy card, that may send a mixed message. She might take it as an implication that their vows are on hold for the duration, a fear many spouses share.

If the reply is a boot in the ass (the culture of the military is very direct) she will know two things: That he loves her and expects her to gut it out like he is. And that she won’t get a pass if she gives in to temptation. This just MIGHT be the message she longs to hear. If so, she can make use of her many communications channels to shower him with loving reassurance that the home fires are burning brightly and he has the ride of his life waiting when he gets home. If not, Bah-whoosh!

Martin, I think you're on track.

You are so right, martin. This woman is mean-spirited. I wonder at their ages. I would venture to guess that, at least, she is very young. Poor guy...what a shame.

A sergeant is a man of many talents and dispenser of relationship advice was one of mine. I’m sure I saved many a relationship and I drafted more than one love letter for a tongue-tied machine gunner.

I think it is so insenstitive and selfish of her to bring this up now, it shows a striking lack of maturity. Is it too Gauche to suggest the gift of a vibrator or other sex toy? Probably. She needs to learn to deal with not getting any the same way that everyone else in the world deals with it.

I hope that Heartbroken in Tikrit can put this aside and take the best possible care of himself and his comrades. I hope that they can all come home soon.

Martin has the best response. It's OK to impugn LW's wife, but she appears to be asking for help in a weak moment. If she is knockin' boots, LW can deal with the facts, not the suspicion.

LTC Dennis' post doesn't speak well of (enlisted) military-civilian marriages.

DaveG -

Actually, my response doesn't speak well of marriages contracted by the very young and inexperienced as opposed to marriages contracted by people in the military. Most of these kinds of problems involve Soldiers in their first or second term of service, who have enlisted right out of high school - hence my reference to this sort of thing happening less with seasoned veterans. The problem is that people who marry very young already face an uphill fight in keeping a marriage together - problems that the high-stress military life can exacerbate. On the other hand, military marriages involving older, more mature and more experienced people (both enlisted and commissioned) tend to be very successful.

Whatever my post says about military marriages, the unfortunate fact remains that the story of "Broken Hearted in Tikrit" is an all too common one, and the likely results are all too easy to predict - though of course, there are always exceptions. Maybe this Soldier will be one of those lucky few.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, of somebody else.

"for almost everybody else, sexual fidelity on the part of their spouse IS a requirement for a good marriage" Um, that depends on who you are what your basic belief structure is. There are certainly plenty of "open" marriages, though it's not the norm and then you have Utah. However given the soldier comments I'd say he's more traditional.

I still think he needs to forget about the whole thing, for the soldiers sake give her the benefit of the doubt. She's not the one with her ass in the sand so I really couldn't care less about her. Any option outside of letting it go (for now) will distract him form his current situation.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with Amy's advice. It's perhaps the best advice column I have ever seen. I think maybe she means to offer Heartbroken a little hope and positivity. Sending a letter like that was a very bad idea, very ill-advised and immature, but hey- what would most advice columnists tell a young, naive girl having doubts about a relationship to do? Be honest, upfront and share all? How many times have you heard that crap? Total relationship disclosure is a scourge that Amy's column seems to debunk as a theme. Heartbroken has been deployed as long as he and his wife have been married- she's lonely for crying out loud, and hey, maybe she's 19 years old. What if she was your daughter? Cut her some slack and let's be optomistic, huh? I don't think optomism and positivity are unwarranted here. And hey, one more thing- you know nothing about what she has or hasn't already done. So stop bludgeoning this poor guy and let him talk to his wife as best he can while watching his back on the war front, which is really all Amy said.

And, Heartbroken- best of luck in your marriage, but most of all, take care of yourself. We all appreciate your hard work and sacrifice.

TO: HiT
RE: Gird Up Your Loins

Having done two tours in the 82d—one enlisted, one commissioned—I need to counsel you that the divorce rate back, then 1970s, ran about 90%. I can think of only two officers I served with in 1-508th Inf, that were still married to their spouse from that time frame, come the late 1980s.

It's very tough. But there it is.

The problem, for most men, from a man's perspective, is to find a woman who has the moral fortitude to resist this sort of temptation. That's REALLY tough. I know....from experience.

They ARE out there. But it calls for a belief in something or someone more important than oneself. Therein lies the crux of any relationship.

As the saying goes, "It takes two to tango." And if one partner isn't dancing to the same 'tune', in this case 'morality', it gets kind of 'tough' to finish the dance (of Life).

But, I'll point out that Amy's advice, in parts, reminds me of that Billy Joel hit from the 80s; Tell Her About It.

On the other hand, be prepared for 'disappointment'. But DO keep in mind that it is not the end of all things.

I survived TWO divorces, neither of which I asked for. Yeah. It'll hurt like 'hell'. But you've been hurt before. More-likely physically as opposed to spiritually. You'll survive. If it comes to that. I pray it doesn't, but just be aware.

Now, I'm married to THE MOST WONDERFUL WOMAN I could have imagined. She reminds me of the female lead in that movie, Life Force. She is also everything described in the latter part of Proverbs 31.

After all this time, I've found that the only way a marriage REALLY 'works' is when each member things the other is more important than themselves.

Good hunting and good luck.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and airborne qualified. -- Chaplain at the Airborne Chapel, Benning School for Boys]

I agree with Amy (and Martin). I think she just needs to hear something along the lines of, "My love for you is what keeps me going... I stay alive to come back to you, and I'm staying strong to control my misery, so I can focus on doing my duty until I return," or some kind of shit like that. Put himself in her shoes as far as staying strong, and letting his love for her keep him together. SHOW her by example what he's doing for her, instead of trying to TELL her what to do. This ought to have two effects: a; Show her why he's worth staying true to, or b; make damn sure she knows what a piece of shit she is, if she blows this (or... that guy).

One thing LW should NOT do is tell her ANYTHING that will be the consequences if she strays. He also shouldn't tell her when he's getting back. Let the suprise do the work. Besides, why stew? He can tell himself lies if that's what keeps him together, and alive.

There's no doubt she's fucking with his head, she might be a bitch, but that doesn't mean she's cheating on him. She obviously has some resentment to being a "Military Wife."

All my best to Heartbroken, stay safe.

I really feel sorry for Heartbroken, and I hope he can gather the strength to move past this.

It would appear from the posts above, that a traditional marriage is not something that works for enlisted men. I like vlad's suggestion of the open marriage, but the best idea would be no marriage at all.

But, since it would appear that a lot of these guys are traditional and don't like to share their woman, the best bet would be marrying a woman with no sex drive. She will never be tempted to stray, unless it's for money.

TO: Morbideus
RE: Think Again

"There's no doubt she's fucking with his head, she might be a bitch, but that doesn't mean she's cheating on him. " -- Morbideus

I think Renee and the LTC and I have nailed it.

She's being nailed already. She's just looking for an 'out', i.e., "I warned you," to sauve her injured conscience, later on.

As LTC [first-first] DELTA says, and with which I concur, "I've seen it hundreds of times," so to say.

I've experienced it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Sorry....but....Cosi fan tutte.]

TO: Chrissy
RE: Au Contraire

"It would appear from the posts above, that a traditional marriage is not something that works for enlisted men." -- Chrissy

Actually, it DOES work. However, it works better with more mature people. As LTC D points out, once a soldier gets to the age of 30, he is much more mature than he usually is when he enlists.

He's learned how to make wise choices.

RE: Why Am I Not 'Surprised'?

"I like vlad's suggestion of the open marriage, but the best idea would be no marriage at all." -- Chrissy

'Open' marriage isn't 'marriage'. It's a license to rape, murder, pillage and burn what marriage is really all about.

And what is 'marriage' REALLY all about? It's about THIS long and THIS tall and THIS wide and has LITTLE, if anything, to do with YOU.

Real marriage is about caring more about someone else than you do about yourself. It is anathema to what most people are interested in today....i.e., themselves.

RE: The 'Traditional' Man v. the 'Tradional' Woman

"But, since it would appear that a lot of these guys are traditional and don't like to share their woman, the best bet would be marrying a woman with no sex drive. She will never be tempted to stray, unless it's for money." -- Chrissy

So. Are you suggesting all women are whores?

Interesting. I suspect that my wife would laugh in your face at that, should you ever meet.

Or, more appropo, are you 'projecting'?

Where's Dr. Helen (the InstaWife) when we REALLY need her?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think.]

TO: Chrissy
RE: Actually.....

"...the best bet would be marrying a woman with no sex drive." -- Chrissy

....women WITH a 'sex drive' are naturally attracted to men who have such viral genes as to jump out of perfectly good airplanes in flight.

The problem, once again, falls back to the men being VERY careful in selecting some woman they want to share their life with.

It requires a degree/level of maturity that I suspect only LTC D and myself can appreciate in this venue.

And therein lies the 'disappointment'. One would think that in a nation as 'advanced' as US is, we'd have achieved that level and imparted it to our children already. Sadly....that is not, repeat NOT, the case.

Instead, we've raised a lot of selfish brats....being, for the most part, such ourselves.

I put the quintessential question to YOU....

...for what purpose would YOU lay down YOUR life?

[1] A 'boyfriend'?
[2] A not-so-distant relation?
[3] A child, not your own?
[4] A child, your own?
[5] A close neighbor?
[6] A distant neighbor?
[7] A total stranger?

I put it to you that someone, around 2000 years ago, laid down His life for YOU....at TOTAL 'stranger'.

HiT is emulating THAT form of 'Love', each day he is in Tikrit. [Note: Interesting that the 82d has taken over that turf. Last I heard, the battalion of Mech Infantry, in which I had the honor of commanding a company, in the 80s, was on that beat. Makes me curious as to HiT's batt identification. If it is 1-508, I'm doubly-honored. RED DEVIL!]

He's doing more for me and my and your [future] children than YOU'LL EVER DO.

And God bless him for it. I certainly do. And I wish I could be there with him, to fulfill a promise I made 37 years ago.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and its conscious that he gains protection while he gives it. -- Andrew Jackson]

"One thing LW should NOT do is tell her ANYTHING that will be the consequences if she strays."

This is insane. When did personal responsibility become a four-letter word?

"But, since it would appear that a lot of these guys are traditional and don't like to share their woman, the best bet would be marrying a woman with no sex drive. She will never be tempted to stray, unless it's for money."

I hate to be nasty, but this has to be the most asinine blog comment I've read in weeks. Chrissy, would you prefer our fighting forces to consist entirely of sexually repressed prudes who only marry the prudest of women? I suggest you refer to the plentiful evidence presented right here on Amy's blog regarding how prevalant sexual repression and the resulting sexual torture of women and young boys is in the Taliban.

From what I can gather, LW's only mistake was marrying foolishly (and probably too young). Otherwise, I've got nothing more to add to what the veterans have so eloquently posted.

That includes you, Chuck! (Still hate the memos, though - reminds me of the office).

TO: snakeman99
RE: You....

"Still hate the memos, though - reminds me of the office." -- snakeman99

....need to exorcise your 'demons'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks for the compliment....

TO: snakeman99
RE: From Whence....

...comes the handle of 'snakeman99'?

I'm seeing an inference to 'snake eaters', i.e., Rangers.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It was a sorry water moccasin that crossed our patrol's path. -- CBPelto]

P.S. As we worked our way through the back-waters of Eglin AFB, you'd hear the word, "Snake!" It was accompanied by the sound of machettes sliding out of their scabbards.....

...there'd be a splash and a subtle sound of delight, as we'd be eating better than we had for some time....thanks to the people who ran that 'spa' called the Army Ranger Course.

Hardly anything that colorful. "Snake" rhymes with my first name. The "99" is just a habit. When I signed up for my very first yahoo email account a hundred years ago, my chosen handle was already taken, so I just added "99" to the end. Probably some kind of long-held crush on Barbara Feldon from "Get Smart."

TO: snakeman99
RE: Barbara

"Probably some kind of long-held crush on Barbara Feldon from "Get Smart."" -- snakeman99

Been there. Done that. Especially that skit on Laugh-In, where she, as a lady leprechaun, says that if you catch HER, "It's better than any old pot of gold."

Heavy sigh.....

However, I admit to being better off, being married to the leading lady, as I see it, from the movie Life Force. [Note: Check out the scenes when she 'escapes' from the research lab.]

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We are not taught to think decently on sex subjects, and consequently we have no language for them except indecent language. -- George Bernard Shaw]

Snakeman: A prude is someone who takes great pride in staring temptation in the face and not giving in. They enjoy the moral superiority. If you remove the sex drive altogether you remove the temptation. No test, no moral superiority, no prude.

A sex drive when you can't use it is a very annoying thing, that frustration leads to repression, or at least long showers. If you could remove the desire you would not be left with a sexually repressed person but a eunich, ready to get down to business without distractions. That sounds like an ideal fighting force.

Only a fool would try to keep an insatiable woman for his own. Get her on prozac or give up.

You Army types probably know that this problem happens to sailors all the time, too. On a ballistic missile sub, Dad, you can be there for the conception or the delivery - pick one.

I had a part in issuing the boat's newspaper on both the SSBN and the SSN I was riding. In each case, I was careful to put out an article reminding our guys that their wishes and fantasies were not coming true back in port - that their sweetheart, married or not, was learning to be or was already an independent person, and not just in the sack. We had a lot of sailors think that after three months they were going to step back in the front door and be in charge of things.

Nope.

Overheard in the Radar Club at Charleston AFB, back when Charleston Naval Base was open: "So. What crew is your husband on?"

A seperate issue is the shock any military spouse gets when they find out an unpleasant truth: they come second to the needs of the service. No, there is no calling in sick. There is no excuse for not going when called to serve. A lot of people blind themselves to that, sometimes willingly. Those who figured that out and coped with it are some of my treasured friends.

TO: smurfy
RE: The 'Chemical' Defense

"Only a fool would try to keep an insatiable woman for his own. Get her on prozac or give up." -- smurfy

You must be an Edwards supporter. Drug EVERYONE!

RE: Sorry Definitions

"A prude is someone who takes great pride in staring temptation in the face and not giving in. They enjoy the moral superiority." -- smurfy

Is your skin REALLY 'blue'? Or are you just a card-carrying member of Densa?

RE: Again the Edwardian Approach

"If you could remove the desire you would not be left with a sexually repressed person but a eunich, ready to get down to business without distractions. That sounds like an ideal fighting force." -- smurfy

So, you say you want the cut the balls off all our fighting men?

What's your address?

I know a LOT of men that would enjoy giving you a sharp lesson in your own philosophy....late at night....when no one else is around....

Would you put up a 'fight'???!?!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful. -- C. S. Lewis]

TO: Radwaste
RE: In the NAaavvvvyyyyy

"You Army types probably know that this problem happens to sailors all the time, too." -- Radwaste

I figured as much. Especially after reports I picked up from GWI.

Small world, eh?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're dumb. -- John Wayne, Sands of Iwo Jima]

I've worked for the military as a civilian for 15 years. I've seen this many many times. A young soldier is dating a girl. He is young. Don't be fooled because he is a SSgt. Today in the Army this equates to young. The Army is promoting soldiers quickly in the hopes that they will re-enlist and because so many soldiers are getting out and they need NCOs. So what do you do? You promote. But that is another issue.

So the soldier is dating and he/she gets orders and now they panic. Because, hey they are having a really good time with their girlfriend/boyfriend and are now worried how their deployment will impact their relationship. And because they are in love, which may or not may not be the actual case, but it doesn't matter because if they think they are, they might as well be, because they will act as if they truly are.

So in their panic and because they believe that their love is special they get married. They also have a tendency to believe that by marrying their girlfriend/boyfriend that will ensure the person will still be around when they return, and they believe that marriage will ensure faithfullness.

Marrying an adult ensures that love will endure through a deployment, and will ensure that your spound will remain committed to you, your marriage, and will be faithful. And being an adult has nothing to do with age.

TO: Chuck
RE:RE: Think Again

"She's being nailed already. She's just looking for an 'out', i.e., "I warned you," to sauve her injured conscience, later on.

As LTC [first-first] DELTA says, and with which I concur, "I've seen it hundreds of times," so to say.

I've experienced it."

Maybe, but we don't know this for a fact. I've had experience with females who would say things like this for no other reason than to torment.

Snake:
""One thing LW should NOT do is tell her ANYTHING that will be the consequences if she strays."

This is insane. When did personal responsibility become a four-letter word?"

It may seem insane because it appears you missed my point. I didn't mean to infer there would BE no consequences, just not to say what those consequences would be.
Revenge may be a dish best served cold, but when you need to ream someone a new asshole, it should be fresh off the grill.

Such as in:
Q: "What are you going to do about it?"
A: "You won't know until it's in your face."

Kapeesh?

First of all, I hope the letter writer and LTC Chapman both get home safe and sound.

One thing that I haven't seen anyone comment on yet: the fact that his tour just got extended. They got married, within a month he's gone... I don't know how long his tour was supposed to be, but it could be that the "Oops! He's not coming home to you after all for another ___ months" could be the straw that broke the camel's back. It could be that she actually is cheating; it could be that she's just choosing a really bad way to express her frustration.

And yes, it does take a special type of person to tough out 12 months plus of thinking every day that today could be the day the bad news comes. I love my husband dearly, but I have a hard enough time just considering the (thankfully low) possibility of a car wreck. I'm not sure I'd be a strong military spouse in month 13 myself.

I'm sure LTC Chapman's observations are more on the mark than mine, but I still hope it works out for the letter writer and his wife.

Been there, done that. I was a NCO in the Air Force back in the 90s. The operations tempo at the Air Mobility Command base I was stationed at meant grueling deployemnts to Joint Endeavor (Bosnia), Northern Watch (the so-called "No Fly Zone in Iraq), and whatever else wagged the Clinton administration tail.

My wife acquired a boyfriend during my deployments. It didn't end well. Talk with your First Sergeant. He/she may want to bring this to your commander; they both will probably advise you to contact the legal office. Sounds like a freight train headed for a sh*t storm, eh?

The important thing is to protect yourself financially. I lucked out because in the late 90s the military was downsizing and the AF was offering severance packages and early retirements. My AFSC (known as an MOS in the Army) was eligible for either a severance, or an early retirement. Back then, one's ex-spouse was automatically entitled to half of your retirement pay (thanks to Pat Schroeder). There was not yet any legislation regarding severance pay, so it was an easy choice for me to make.

Good luck to you. Thank you for the many sacrifices you've made for the rest of us, and for the sacrifiecs you will have to make. Do what you have to to protect yourself. I hope things work out between you and your wife, but I've seen it dozens of times and lived through it myself.

Life will go on. Things will change.

I think what Amy is saying re: sexual fidelity is not that the the guy should try to open his mind to non-exclusive relationships, but rather that he should figure out whether a discrete occurrence of cheating is a dealbreaker for him. Understandable.

That having been said...I think I agree more with Martin's advice here. Sorry, Amy. :) While I think the LW should start off his conversation with, "I love you madly," it seems to me the issue is that someone or something has coddled this young lady, and it needs to stop. I can have sympathy for someone who does something rashly, regrets it later, and tries to make amends, but someone who seems potential bad behavior coming from a mile off and professes inability to stop it is a different matter. She doesn't know how she would respond if she were alone with him and he made moves? Then DON'T BE ALONE WITH HIM. And, if you have to, carry around a card that says, "My husband is fighting in Iraq, risking his life, while you're home enjoying air conditioning and affordable oil. Do you really want to hit on me?

Because really, the young lady needs to grow up. It's one thing to tell your husband that you're lonely...it's another thing to make him think that this "loneliness" gives you carte blanche to toss away/redefine your marriage vows.

That having been said, I wonder what would happen if the LW responded by saying, "You're attracted to this guy? Great! Because there is a SMOKING HOT chick who's assigned to my base who's been flirting with me for a while. I'll bone her, you sleep with Can't-Be-Alone-With guy, and everyone will be happy! Excuse me while I go stock up on condoms." Because really, she may be far away from her husband...but he's also far away from his spouse and has people SHOOTING AT HIM EVERY DAY. If the separation gives her the right to sleep with someone else, then he should have the right to a threesome or the equivalent. Not that I think he'd go for that, but maybe it would wake his wife from her self-pitying self-absorption.

Get a divorce lawyer on retainer if you can, and get someone to get evidence of adultry if it happens.

IMHO any woman who cheats on a man in combat, or who files on him while he is in combat, is the lowest of the low. Under modern feminist law, she can sleep with alternating biker gangs, divorce him from a distance, keep the house and get half the pension that he is earning ducking bullets. Protect yourself!!

From all the comments above, I think the most successful arrangement for a marriage for enlisted men (or women) would be based primarily on companionship, and the goal of having children, if that is what you both want. It's not realistic to have it based on sexual passion, because apparently, you won't be seeing much of each other in person.

smurfy understands where I'm coming from on this. If you are alone for a year, and you get horny quite often, you'll be living in hell. If you don't ever get any urges you'll be perfectly content with the arrangement that you have made with your partner.

I'm all for being realistic when it comes to relationships, but I guess that comes with experience. Unfortunately, things aren't the way they're portrayed in those chick fliks.

Amy, I love reading your column and your blog---your hard edge, tell-it-like-it-is advice is so refreshing to hear.

I am a former Navy Wife, married young and divorced after 3 yrs. (no kids, thank god) We had a long history together, but even that in itself is not enough to withstand the difficulties of 1. being young, 2. being stupid, 3. being married and 4. having a spouse in the military. We had married after his first tour in the Gulf under the premise: "well, we were going to marry anyways..." Big mistake, I know...but I have certainly learned from my mistakes since then.

At any rate, the LW's letter jumped out at me because it was something that I not only lived through, but saw happening around me when I had relocated after getting married. It was disheartening, to say the least, to see so many others acting with such disregard for their spouses and families...only to benefit themselves in the end. When you're a young newlywed to a Servicemember, you often catch yourself thinking "well, we're different" or "that won't happen to us". Military or not, it is no easy feat to be a young married person.

A lot of people have been speculating about what has or hasn't transpired with the LW's wife---nobody knows except for her. From the sounds of it, she probably HAS done something and is feeling guilty about it, so in a really selfish and immature way, is testing the waters to see how bad this is going to be.

I agree with the Vets' and current Servicemembers' posts on here...he needs to focus on himself right now and think about what will happen when he returns home. Having someone check on the wife probably would not be a bad idea, however considering where he is right now, if he DID receive some troubling news, that would certainly not be a good combination with his current situation.

Advising with a Chaplain or experienced higher-up would be able to provide him with enough support to get through things right now. I think he should propose meeting with a Marriage Counselor who has experience with military. If she refuses, go alone until you have the tools to confidently make a decision as to where your marriage is heading. It's not a major earthquake here, but it's definitely a little tremor of things to (possibly) come.

Good luck and get home safe!

If you are alone for a year, and you get horny quite often, you'll be living in hell.

I thought that was what masturbation is for. Y'know, there was a time, when my daughters were small, after I had just gotten divorced, when I wanted absolutely nothing to do with men. Got myself a vibrator. It's not the same as having a warm body next to you, but it does scratch the itch.

I cringe to offer this, but as someone who had said and done some spectacularly boneheaded things that I did not even understand were so wrong, this LW's wife confesssion was familiar.

It is possible, very likely, that this couple might have hyperbonded before he left and as a way of staying close, vowed to share everything and be honest--even about the dark stuff. To withhold would be a bigger betrayal.

I actually believe that LW's wife might indeed love him and might feel that sharing this with him will help defuse the situation and stop any tendency to start editing and leading a double life.

I think if she genuinely wanted to sleep with this man, it makes a lot more sense that she would have done so and said nothing.

When we are young, and/or when email connection is the only thing keeping two people connected, intense confessional, mutual struggling and agony seems like a truer and more passionate choice than remaining silent.

I know that I have said some very stupid things to men I loved dearly because I thought it was better to be honest and share everything. It is hard won and grievous experience that has taught me otherwise, but before I learned, I said some very stupid regrettable stuff and hurt people deeply that I thought I was honoring. I cringe.

So, I do see a scenario in which LW's wife feels quite passionately about him and this is a misbegotten attempt to try rid herself of double heartedness by sharing all.

'...when I wanted absolutely nothing to do with men'

If you DO want something to do with men, masturbation isn't going to cut it for a whole year. If you want to feel desired and lusted after, your vibrator isn't going to grab you and ravish you.

There seems to be a common assumption that it's OK to get into a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, and then you should deny those needs and you should both suffer. Sounds like a fast track to sainthood-call the Pope!

Chrissy - please don't get married.

If you DO want something to do with men, masturbation isn't going to cut it for a whole year. If you want to feel desired and lusted after, your vibrator isn't going to grab you and ravish you.

Chrissy, that's not how I meant it. I was just saying when the horniness really got to me, the vibrator took care of business. I don't need a man to desire and lust after me 24/7. And if my husband were overseas, and I knew he desired and lusted after me, and I loved him, I'd damn sure take care of business with a vibrator before I'd let myself be unfaithful with any schmoe who came along that I found myself "attracted to."

If you've noticed in previous posts, I'm pretty consistent in my lack of interest in marriage, so no worries there, snakeman. It doesn't seem to have much of a track record, and I prefer long-term relationships.

To Heartbroken: My heart goes out to you. I can certainly understand the utter frustration of being thousands of miles away, in danger every day, and unable to do a damn thing about a situation back at home (although in my case it wasn't preventing a spouse from cheating, it was an almost ex spouse seizing custody of my three kids and moving them across the state, cutting me off from all contact w/ them).
I'm an officer in the Marine Corps and I too have seen and heard of these horror stories happening so many times. Marine (or soldier as the case may be) deploys and comes home to find his old lady involved with someone else--all too often a fellow servicemember. Go figure. My advice to you, since you do love her and want to try to keep your marriage--at least at this point--is to let her know how much you care, how much you love her and how hurt you would be if she strayed. Tell her how you remember how beautiful she looked on her wedding day--whether it was a shotgun affair at the JOP or a full blown deal--and how much she means to you. Give it your best shot; you don't have control of the situation but you may be able to influence her...towards the right direction. Try to get her hooked up with some of the support groups back home and have someone (relative, trusted female friend) look in on her occasionally. This person can not only give her support but can also act as a quasi-spy if it comes to that. And lastly, get yourself to the Chaplain and try to stay focused and keep your head in the game. Your main goal, like others have said here, is to come home alive and bring as many of your buddies with you in the same condition.
Just a general comment in defense of the LW's wife--she may be super young--some of these girls are literally right out of high school and don't even know who they are yet. They think the uniform is cool-looking and have absolutely NO CLUE what they are getting themselves into. There's still no excuse for cheating in a marriage especially in a situation like this, but I don't think she's trying to be vindictive or get him killed on purpose. I think she's probably just your basic young, selfish, clueless woman who isn't thinking beyond her own "here and now". She probably IS lonely, which is why LW should reach out to others back home to help her through this. A year alone in a brand new marriage is a tough haul, folks, and it takes help from outsiders sometimes to allow it to survive.
So, I hope for the best for your sake, Heartbroken and good luck to you; here's hoping you come home in one piece. Keep your head down and try to take it just one day at a time.
Semper FI

This letter made me sad. The LW and his wife were both too young to get married, and I think Dennis has it figured out spot-on. Plenty of young marriages don't make it - not just those that involve servicepeople.

The whole sex thing aside, everyone think back to the person you were at 19 or 20 compared to the person you are now. People change so much and so fast at that age. A couple of young lovebirds get married and five or ten years later they aren't even the same people anymore. That may be what is happening in this case. He's off and away, and she's involved in her life back home, changing and growing into a new person, and he hasn't been involved with any of those changes. She's probably read new books, picked up new hobbies and interests, made new friends, changed her worldview about a few things, and he hasn't been around for any of it. She's becoming a new person who doesn't have him in her life. It's too bad they got married in the first place, but before anyone throws too many rocks at her, think back about how mature YOU were at age 19.

Chuck, I'm curious as to whether you have read any of Ayn Rand's views about altruism and selflessness. You toot your horn (sorry, that should be HORN in ALL CAPS) about the virtue of putting others before yourself, as if we should all take it as a given that this is a superior way to be. Basically, altruism states that the more you do for others, and the less you do for yourself, the better person you are. In other words, doing for someone else is always better than doing for yourself. Doing for someone who is a complete stranger is always better than doing for someone you care about. Better yet, an anonymous person who never knows your identity and can't thank you. A truly wonderful person would take the absolute worst job in the world, for no pay, for the benefit of people he or she did not know, and who would never be able to say thanks. You might call that moral superiority, but I call it complete lunacy.

Certainly it is immoral to hurt other people. But honestly, when I act on another person's behalf, I am really doing it to benefit myself. The difference is between whether I am thinking short-term or long-term. Ayn Rand would call that rational self-interest.

I am also a little bit curious about military culture and whether it is as overtly religious as I have heard. Perhaps some of the military posters here would care to comment. It seems to me that excessive religious indoctrination leads to a lot of these young, immature, and ultimately failed marriages. Maybe that is why divorce rates among religious fundies are so high. Godless harlots such as myself don't get married at all, or they get married later in life - hence, fewer divorces.

susan you're living in a fantasy world. I have to say yours is the most assine response I have seen so far.

How can telling someone, who just might get his head blown off if he is not 100% focused, 'by the way honey some guy wants to screw me and I dont know if I will or not but I thought I should let you know I'm kinda sorta considering it'

How is that possibly a good thing?
She's selfish, she's narsasitic, she's already on her way out, and she'll probably wind up being responsible for half a dozen deaths.

I saw this often enough just going thru basic, most of those were just girlfriends and that was just 9 weeks time

Lujlp, I think everyone would agree that the wife is being selfish and narcissistic, but she probably just isn't old enough to know better. The gravity of his situation (risk to his own life and limb, as well as to others') only makes their premature marriage that much more regrettable.

I dunno, PJ. She was old enough to get married. How old do you have to be to be "old enough to know better"?

I would almost feel sorry for someone who really was old enough to get married at the age of 19.

Godless harlots such as myself don't get married at all, or they get married later in life


If you think there's a decent chance you're going to be killed in combat at age 23, age 19 *is* "later in life." No, I don't think marriage at 19 is a good idea...but I can see why people who think that their lives or the lives of their loved ones could be very, very short by modern standards might go for it.

Personally, I'm 33, engaged to be married next year, and I'm about 90% certain I'm ALMOST old enough!

Surprising lack of posts from female viewers...just something I noticed...this is a more male-driven post though. Those of you who have said to dump her and change the accounts are right on. No surprise that there is a total lack of honor and morals in his wife. Fidelity is something that is mandatory in a marriage, and especially someone who is deployed in the combat zone. Those of you defending the wife, for whatever reason, are being so typical. Why, it would be silly to assume that she remain accountable and responsible for her own actions! Better think up every excuse in the book to condone her behavior!

Oh yeah, if she told you about it she probably already did the guy.

BTW, my opinions are based on facts: I was deployed while on active duty, and while I thought my wife was being loyal and being my lifeline while I was in the combat zone, she was skanking around with some loser. I get back, and while everyone's loved ones were greeting them off the bus, my wife did not even bother to show up.

mike, there are a lot of female posts

Mike I saw all the same things you are talking about and it was sickening and sad.

But I also saw military wives throw themselves into making life better for the soldiers in the unit. They hosted parties, ran fundraisers and generally acted as den mother to to a bunch of lonely, reckless knuckleheads.

I was on staff duty one night when there was a parachuting accident at the drop zone. My phone rang within minutes of the news with a call from the wife of a different unit's commanding officer checking to see if she could help.

Pirate Jo has a great comment above:
"He's off and away, and she's involved in her life back home, changing and growing into a new person, and he hasn't been involved with any of those changes. She's probably read new books, picked up new hobbies and interests, made new friends, changed her worldview about a few things, and he hasn't been around for any of it. "

The service member is changing too, in ways his wife can't share. In boot camp, he learns confidence and strength he didn't know he had. He learns that you can't tell a damned thing about somebody by looking at the outside. He learns what loyalty really means and when to give it. He learns to lead. And somewhere in there, he learns contempt for who he used to be and for his former pals, still hanging around in front of the gas station waiting for their lives to start.

The fact that ANY of these marriages survive defies all reason. It doesn't mean they are bad people, just too young for such a big committment.

TO: Morbideus
RE: Yeah....

"Maybe, but we don't know this for a fact. I've had experience with females who would say things like this for no other reason than to torment." -- Morbideus

...but it has the look and the feel of it.

And, as I've said, after 27 years in the infantry, I've seen a LOT of stuff like this, even on the personal level.

People don't seem to (1) change nor (2) learn.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[History is story of mankind being 'sold short', by other men (and women).]

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Ayn Rand, Anyone?

"Chuck, I'm curious as to whether you have read any of Ayn Rand's views about altruism and selflessness." -- Pirate Joe

Long ago and far away, i.e., high school.

"You toot your horn (sorry, that should be HORN in ALL CAPS) about the virtue of putting others before yourself, as if we should all take it as a given that this is a superior way to be." -- Pirate Joe

And your point, here, is....what?

"Basically, altruism states that the more you do for others, and the less you do for yourself, the better person you are." -- Pirate Joe

Go on....

"In other words, doing for someone else is always better than doing for yourself. Doing for someone who is a complete stranger is always better than doing for someone you care about. Better yet, an anonymous person who never knows your identity and can't thank you. A truly wonderful person would take the absolute worst job in the world, for no pay, for the benefit of people he or she did not know, and who would never be able to say thanks." -- Pirate Joe

And??!?!?

"You might call that moral superiority, but I call it complete lunacy." -- Pirate Joe

Not much on Christ, or loving your neighbor, eh?

So call me a 'lunatic'. I do this s--- just about every day. And the community is, by and large, better for it. Traffic runs smoother. Peoples houses are not torn down for the sake of raising the taxes. And, with a little help from God, we'll even do something to clean up the neighborhoods.

And this is 'lunacy'? To YOU?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.]

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Additionally

"Certainly it is immoral to hurt other people." -- Pirate Joe

Where do acts of omission figure in on this....from YOUR perspective?

"But honestly, when I act on another person's behalf, I am really doing it to benefit myself. The difference is between whether I am thinking short-term or long-term. Ayn Rand would call that rational self-interest." -- Pirate Joe

Selfishness drives all in your life. Eh?

My understanding of rational self-interest is that if I'm going into 'harms way', I pray a lot and pack hardware.

"I am also a little bit curious about military culture and whether it is as overtly religious as I have heard." -- Pirate Joe

The old, and accurate, adage goes...

There are no atheists under an artillery barrage.

And damned few in a C130 just before they jump.

"It seems to me that excessive religious indoctrination leads to a lot of these young, immature, and ultimately failed marriages." -- Pirate Joe

It's probably more likely that it has to do with raging hormones than religious belief. Certainly at THAT age. Been there. Done that. Got the scars to prove it.

"Maybe that is why divorce rates among religious fundies are so high." -- Pirate Joe

Even 'fundies' can be 'Godless'. Just because one says they are a christian doesn't make it so.

I'd recommend you read the old Book some more. You know....to know your 'enemy' better.

"Godless harlots such as myself don't get married at all, or they get married later in life - hence, fewer divorces." -- Pirate Joe

Got some statistical data to back up that claim?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Figures don't lie, but liars figure.]

P.S. As for being a Hornblower, love that series, the only reason I trot that s--- out is (1) it give the addressee a better understand of who they are dealing with, i.e., not some no-nothing on the military as some cretin such as Crid implied, or (2) I'm reminded of a fond memory.

You haven't heard HALF of what I've experienced yet. And that's primarily because someone hasn't 'triggered' it....yet.

But just be patient. I'm certain some bozo will stumble into something else, even more interesting, in due time.

Martin,

Yes, there are those who really get involved...the really good military wives who have married their men knowing that things like this might happen, and know also that there is a support system for family members of deployed personnel. It is a time to find out what you are made of, both the deployed and those left back home. It is heartbreaking to see those come home from overseas and see their wives greet them with divorce papers, if they show up at all...I'm sure, yeah, that the same thing can be said for men left behind, there, nipped that in the bud...

Anyway, people should be aware that when they marry someone in the military that they may be deployed. If you can't handle and think you have to get something on the side then you should not get married, or we should get rid of no-fault divorce and make them accountable.

"Traffic runs smoother. Peoples houses are not torn down for the sake of raising the taxes. And, with a little help from God, we'll even do something to clean up the neighborhoods."

Traffic you drive in, houses and neighborhoods you (or your friends and neighbors) live in ... all the things you do are worthwhile and positive, no doubt, but are your motives truly altruistic? Not lunacy, and not without an element of self-gain, either. After all, we can't ignore the obvious, sanctimonious sense of do-gooding you get from all of this.

But that's okay ... acting in one's own self-interest often benefits other people as well. As for acts of omission, those are generally known as "accidents." Doing something dumb or negligent doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. Just wrong, or clumsy, or ignorant of important facts.

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Getting Real

"Traffic you drive in, houses and neighborhoods you (or your friends and neighbors) live in ... all the things you do are worthwhile and positive, no doubt, but are your motives truly altruistic?" -- Pirate Joe

Actually, there VAST majority of people here get better driving conditions. I, working at home, don't drive that much.

As for houses and neighborhoods, my house and hood are pretty well maintained, and living in an historic district, we don't worry too much about Wal-Mart getting the city to invoke Eminent Domain to knock down our set of 13 100+ year-old trees and four-level, 100+ year-old house.

So, go blow, Joe.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Selfish, adj, Devoid of regard for the selfishness of others. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary]

I see what Pirate Jo is saying here, I think. I've been known to perform completely annonymous acts of charity, but I do that because it makes me feel good. Even if no one else knows about it, I know I did something to improve someone else's life -- a warm fuzzy, if you will. The act may seem completely selfless, but I am being rewarded for my good deed. I don't know that I would continue doing good deeds if I didn't get that psychological reward.

TO: Monica
RE:

"I see what Pirate Jo is saying here, I think." -- Monica

P-Joe might be thinking of that. However, I think he's thinking more along the lines that if I'm doing good for other people, I'm really just doing good for my own, more selfish, reasons; rational/motivated/enlighted SELF interest.

That came across loud and clear in his comment about how my doing things to improve the city is really about making life easier for myself; travel, protecting homes, cleaning up the hoods.

"I've been known to perform completely annonymous acts of charity, but I do that because it makes me feel good. Even if no one else knows about it, I know I did something to improve someone else's life -- a warm fuzzy, if you will." -- Monica

Good start on having a good attitude. As some Wag put it, 2000 years ago, "When you give money to the poor, do not let your left hand know what the right is doing."

"The act may seem completely selfless, but I am being rewarded for my good deed.' -- Monica

Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can discern.

"I don't know that I would continue doing good deeds if I didn't get that psychological reward." -- Monica

That might be the case, but I have my doubts. You'd probably do the right thing anyway. Even, if you found yourself going into a dangerous situation.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend. -- Some Wag]

No, what I was saying was exactly what Monica grasped. Not only is it extremely questionable that altruism is a superior moral position, it doesn't exist that often anyway, because the reason most people do nice things for other people is because it makes themselves feel good. Does that make it any less nice to do things for other people? No! Because there is nothing wrong with doing something that makes yourself feel good, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, and if it does something GOOD for someone else, well then EXTRA good! The difference is that Monica doesn't break her own arm patting herself on the back about it.

Frankly, it's just YOU I can't stand, Chuck. I'm sick of coming to my favorite website and having to scroll past your stupid, self-promoting diatribes and your sanctimonious Bible-thumping. How many freakin' times are you going to tell us to read that thing, anyway? Of course it's either that, or another paternalistic scolding about the virtues of marriage and having babies. You are so caught up in finger-wagging and listening to the sound of your own voice, you don't even realize what a pompous windbag you are. Go post at one of those Quiverfull loony websites and get bent.

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Then...

"No, what I was saying was exactly what Monica grasped." -- P-Joe

...you have very poor communication skills.

Why? I don't know.

But your previous missive specifically pointed out how you THOUGHT I benefited by the good things I'm trying to do.

So....

...when I point out your 'misunderstanding'....what do I get?

RE: The Truth Will Out

"Frankly, it's just YOU I can't stand, Chuck. I'm sick of coming to my favorite website and having to scroll past your stupid, self-promoting diatribes and your sanctimonious Bible-thumping." -- P-Joe

Gee, Joe. But I LOVE you, you silly pirate wannabe you.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Light has come into the World, but the Darkness cannot comprehend it.]

P.S. And as usual, what people do not comprehend, they, all too often, wind up hating.

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Read It!

"How many freakin' times are you going to tell us to read that thing, anyway?" -- Pirate Joe

Probably until you, and others, get to the point you can discuss it without looking like a total ignoramus.

Currently, all too many of you are pulling s--- out of your fourth-point-of-contact relating to it.

And when I correct you and SUGGEST you learn more about what you're talking about...the typical response is JUST LIKE YOURS....'hate'.

So. Since when is asking someone to become educated about what they are discussing reason for 'hate'?

You tell me....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy and know yourself and you shall never be defeated. -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War]

P.S. A follow-on question, relating to the on asked in my previous missive....

"So. Since when is asking someone to become educated about what they are discussing reason for 'hate'?

You tell me...." -- Chuck Pelto

And WHY is asking someone to become educated in something they are discussing reason for 'hate'?

I look forward to your response to BOTH questions.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Education: Replacing an empty mind with an OPEN one.]

Chuck, for what it's worth, I have read the Bible a TON. For years and years. Repeatedly. And I know this is hard for you to grasp, but I'm simply not interested. The Bible has some nice stories and ideas, as well as some downright creepy stories and ideas, and none of it matters to me in the least, because I don't believe in God. As in, don't believe he exists, any more than the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. Which pretty much negates any importance I might otherwise assign to the matter.

This is why I your constant harping is so tedious. You can't seem to conceive of the idea that anyone here has ever heard of the Bible before, or otherwise we'd already agree with you and be converted. You can dismiss ancient Greek mythology or a 1958 Ford tractor manual as a source of divine truth, but when someone feels the same way about YOUR beliefs, why, it must be out of ignorance or hate!

It's not hate, Chuck, it's just the complete, eyeroll-inducing exasperation most people have for loquacious dolts with no social filter. For all the good it does. You go ahead and sit there with your 'Send' button on lockdown, I just wish there was a God I could thank for my scroll button.

TO: Pirate Joe
RE: Hence....

"This is why I your constant harping is so tedious." -- P-Joe

...my formating style.

No one is forcing you to read these missives. Or if they are, please explain HOW they are doing it?

Is there someone standing beside you holding a .45 ACP to your head?

Seriously, one of the reasons I use this format is to afford people like you the ability to rapidly identify ME as the poster, giving you time to efficiently and effectivly scroll past my 'drivel'. [Note: And, interestingly enough, some people 'hate' me for doing that too. Can't win for lossing. Or so it seems.]

Inquiring minds want to know.

RE: The Questions

I'm still waiting for you to answer my two questions.

And, by the by, your communications ARE coming across as 'hate' [speech]. Despite your claim that you don't. All your other statements say you do.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. More later. Right now...I've got other things that need to be done. The sun is up on a gorgeous day and I'm working on a project to honor one of the great guys in this community's government who is about to be transfered from his current position as Senior Neighborhood Planner to the Metorpolitan Planning Office, where he'll spend most of his time being a computer geek....as opposed to a neighborhood builder.

Do I feel good about it? You betcha. He did a wonderful job. And I feel bad about it too, as I suspect certain parties in the community think he did TOO GOOD a job....and therein lies the proverbial 'rub'.

Here's a thought about altruism. When we see something that looks out of place to us, we don't like it. We want to fix it or look away or maybe just try to reconcile it with what we think the world should be.
When you see a homeless person, you know a handful of loose change isn't going to fix the situation. You could spend some time with the person, trying to find out the source of their troubles and get them to a shelter or rehab or whatever but it doesn't make you a bad person to recognize that that could be a massive drain on your own resources and quite possibly dangerous besides.
Some perfectly nice people mentally compose a narrative that explains this person's hardship in terms of personal failure or transgression. He is homeless because he is lazy and mean and refuses take responsibility for himself.
Most people, still nice people, just look away.

I think "altruistic" acts are really just people trying to put the world the way they think it should be. I don't get a warm fuzzy when I wipe up a spill on my kitchen counter, it just needs doing.

I admire your reply, Amy, to the point of being so emboldened to offer this...

How dreadful is loneliness (given safety) in comparison to one's spouse's being in real danger of becoming dead?

I grew up on a farm and know what horseshit looks like, as I do bullshit.

A correction for those wanting it:

Yes, there are cowpies, too.

It amounts to the same thing, in a general sense.

wow, re-reading this thread just a while ago...Chuck, or whatever your name is, you are extremely annoying. Your posts are so disorganized that they make no sense. Why don't you concentrate on the topic at hand instead of trying to one-up everyone else? You think you come across as clever or something, but you really come across as a smug a--hole...do yourself a favor and attempt to make some valid points that might stimulate some dialog...

Geez!!! How does this web site get all the wackos?

TO: mike
RE: Reading Skills

"Why don't you concentrate on the topic at hand instead of trying to one-up everyone else?" -- mike

Better go back and re-read the traffic on this topic. And take that up the side-tracking matter with P-Joe. He's the one who started the digression about my posting style.

Then again. Maybe YOU should consider reviewing your last post. For the same reason.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Projections, v., describing in someone else, what you're doing yourself.]

TO: Martin
RE: Altruism

"I think "altruistic" acts are really just people trying to put the world the way they think it should be." -- Martin

That could well be the case.

Some Wag told a story of someone referred to as 'The Good Samaritan'. There was altruism at it's finest.

All the lofty, i.e., their nose in the air, Jews passed the mugging victiim by. The humble, i.e., despised by the Jews, Samaritan stopped and helped the victim....for no monetary gain—rather a monetary loss—at all.

If I see someone standing at an intersection, holding up a sign asking for money, I ask Him what I should do....and act accordingly.

Some people may call it a coin-toss. I know better.....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor. -- Proverbs]

P.S. This brings up an interesting suggestion for a parameter of altruism; monetary gain.

The point here being, what drives altruism in an individual?

Is it monetary gain?

Is it easing of their condition?

Is it getting a good 'feeling'?

Is it a hope that it pleases some cosmic Big Juju?

Is it nothing at all?

I suspect some psychology grad working towards a Ph.D. or a theologian might make a good paper out of that.

I'm going to agree with you there, Mike....how did this topic go from a confused sargeant seeking advice about his conflicted wife to monetary gain??

Perhaps if one should want to start a completely different conversation topic, they should try starting a new "thread" where there actually ARE threads. Maybe in a place where others may not mind listening or reading from others on a soapbox. I dunno, just my 2 cents.

Chuck,

Perhaps you should go back and "re-read the traffic on this topic." If you did, you would realize that your proselytization attempts with regards to the good Pirate should all be addressed using feminine pronouns, rather than masculine. Reading comprehension, darling, reading comprehension.

Thank you, Katelyn. I was close to biting my tongue bloody at Chuck's ignorance. I refuse to engage with him; I've dealt with Bible-thumpers like him far longer than I care to admit. It's always their way or no way. So, I say no way will I deal with 'em! o_O

I'm officially ignoring him too. Bloody steamroller-I'm not wasting my time anymore.

TO: Katelyn
RE: Proselytizing, Anyone?

So, you suggest that I should keep my mouth SHUT, about a solution to the young, fellow paratroopers problem? Just because my solution is anathema to your particular beliefs?

How 'progressive' of you.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

P.S. To all of you who have problems with christian ethics, maybe you should examine WHY you have such problems. Tongue firmly in cheek, as opposed to in teeth.

I defy you to come up with a good reason christianity is 'evil'. Go on...give it your best shot.

I think you'll find that the problems you cite are not against christianity, but rather against people, who for some strange reason, aren't really 'christians' at all.

[A tree is known by its fruit. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago]

TO: Katelyn
RE: Gender Blindness

"....you would realize that your proselytization attempts with regards to the good Pirate should all be addressed using feminine pronouns, rather than masculine." -- Katelyn

Should P-Joe's gender change my remarks?

What kind of a sexist are you, anyway?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Female: One of the opposing, or unfair, sex. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary]

TO: Chrissy, et al.
RE: Ignorance

"I'm officially ignoring him too. Bloody steamroller-I'm not wasting my time anymore." -- Chrissy

...no loss from MY perspective.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Rebuke a fool, according to his folly, lest he think proudly of himself. -- Proverbs]

P.S. HEY!!!! Katelyn!!!!!!??!?!?

Does that qualify as 'proselytizing????!!????!?

It's the classic story. Mom scoots off to Italy and before you can say "Ezekiel saw a UFO", some bibble salesman shows up and starts groping the children. Tsk tsk tsk.

Chuck,

Where in my response did I suggest that you refrain from speaking about the actual letter? Funny, I don't recall saying that at all. Simply, I requested that you actually pay attention to the person at whom you are currently spouting off at the mouth. If that is sexist, then obviously my dictionary must be out of date. Quite frankly, I find your stubborn refusal to even consider the input of another person the very height of vanity and hubris.

TO: Katelyn
RE: Where?

"Where in my response did I suggest that you refrain from speaking about the actual letter?" -- Katelyn

Maybe it's the way you 'came' across there, dear.

"I don't recall saying that at all." -- Katelyn

As for your recollection....that's between you and God.

However, a LOT of other people have offered up more than mere protestations about my espousing christian believes in this obviously pagan/atheist venue.

Indeed. Some have gone out of their way to 'kill' me in this venue. But, thanks to some form of saving 'angelic' presence, I manage to keep on keeping on.

RE: Sexism

"...I requested that you actually pay attention to the person at whom you are currently spouting off at the mouth. If that is sexist, then obviously my dictionary must be out of date." -- Katelyn

I think I do that a LOT better than most others around here. Hence my formating of communications.....much to the chagrin of some of the others around these 'parts'.

RE: Considerations

"....I find your stubborn refusal to even consider the input of another person the very height of vanity and hubris." -- Katelyn

I can't afford 'vanity'. Let alone 'hubris'. It's against my 'religion'.

However, I do suggest that you might be....'projecting'. I've seen it oft enough in such 'engagements'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Anytime you care to get back ON-TOPIC, I'll be happy to address ways this young sergeant in the 82d Airborne is, i.e., something I was once myself, around 1972, I'll be happy to converse with you again.

Otherwise....as my platoon sergeant would say, "Shut the f--- up, and 'soldier'!"

TO: frigid_missionary
RE: Heh

"...some bibble salesman shows up and starts groping the children." -- frigid_missionary

Actually...

...I sold Encyclopedia Britannica, in my college daze.

As for children, I never saw any. But I saw a LOT of young couples that were VERY interested in creating some of their own.

So....tell me....

....where are YOU in that process?

Any 'luck', yet?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I've got two lovely ladies to my credit.

What have YOU done for US lately?

Quite frankly, I find your stubborn refusal to even consider the input of another person the very height of vanity and hubris.

Yet one more reason why I tend to ignore "Christians". They spout so many false ideals, and when you disagree, for whatever reason, they seem to have to make it their life's mission to point out to you, at every chance, why you're "wrong", and to convert you to their way of thinking, since it's the only "right" way. Christ Himself was not so arrogant as to dismiss another's faith, as when he used the Roman centurion as an example to his own apostles when he said, "I tell you nowhere, even in Isreal, have I found faith like this." Now watch Chuck(le) tell us how that story isn't even in the Bible! But if he looks in the book of Luke, he'll find it. Chapter 7. (Actually, in Luke it was the centurion's servant, but in Matthew it's the centurion's son. Just for the record. Also for the record, he'll probably say that it was the centurion's blind faith in that if Christ said the boy/servant would be cured, he would, and he'll ignore the fact that the centurion was a heathen.) And wasn't it also Some Wag who said, "Judge not, let ye be judged"?

(For those who are curious, I was brought up in a Xtian household, but due to massive hypocrisy within said church, and of the people who professed to be "Christian" exemplifying how very much un-Christlike they were/are, I now identify as a witch. Don't try to convert me. My mother is very Christian, but also lives and acts like one should,to the best of her ability, and I have a better relationship with her now than I ever did in the past.)

Wow, I guess what I really wanted to do was weigh in on the current duel between "chuck" and everyone else, but it is so much fun to watch everyone squirm. Chuck, even though I think you are just a troll on this board, you do bring up some good points on why people think Christianity is evil--or not. My personal opinion is that people reject religion when it suits them...by that i mean that some folks have done some things in their lives that could never be accepted by any organized religion (except maybe Unity or Science of Mind). So, instead of just accepting what they have done and learn to accept the guilt, they opt out of religion and are quick to denounce it. My experience is that alot of these folks jump over to "spiritualism", as this type of "religion" places no blame, there is no right or wrong or good and bad, and you don't have to take accountability or responsibility for your actions...instead, you can blame it on "the universe" and not your own choices.

Just an idea of mine, since we are talking about religion... Are we???

I find it amazing that most people automatically assume the worst...As a girlfriend of a soldier currently deployed, I am so frustrated by the constant assumption that I will cheat on him because he is not around! The assumption that I can not go out with my single friends to a bar, enjoy their company, and go home alone without the temptation to be with someone else...and since when does attraction mean action. Please...when you get married you don't suddenly stop thinking everyone else is unatractive...when I see a cute guy I know it...but if you asked me if I would ever act on it, I feel physically ill...That is love...having the option, but choosing not to take it. So many girls don't even attempt relationships with military men (especially those in units that deploy often) because people assume they will cheat or make them think the guy will lose interest...It is incredibly hard to go weeks without reassurance from him that his feelings have not changed, when everyone tells you he is young and that everyone thing will be different when he gets home. Who knows...maybe she has cheated on him, but I think more likely she is looking for him to reassure her and tell her he loves her... Maybe she wants to make him a little jealous, make hime feel the need to call a little more...I don't think she will steal all his money and I thank that assumption is absurd and as far as i'm concerned half they money he gets for being married should be hers...The guys hate hearing that we girls miss them and that we are lonely and are just fine with a quick I love you, but as a girl, you need to hear that he would rather be home with you and no girl wants to ask the question. However, I think as a girl who loves a soldier, it is your job to be strong and not make him worry about you back home...I don't let my man know about my insecurities and she never should have used these tactics to get attention.

My own personal tirade...but I am so sick of the assumption that we aren't there for our guys...I have written more letters, made more care packages (and not just for my guy but also for his single friends who weren't getting mail at all ) with no ring on my finger and yet...the army considers me unimportant because I am not married...there is absolutely no consideration for guys with girlfriends so is it really a surrpise with the extra pay and benefits and consideration that many enlisted guys rush into marriage...or that so many young enlisted guys have issues with their marriages when they deploy...

Yay! We're back on topic!

So, instead of just accepting what they have done and learn to accept the guilt, they opt out of religion and are quick to denounce it. My experience is that alot of these folks jump over to "spiritualism", as this type of "religion" places no blame, there is no right or wrong or good and bad, and you don't have to take accountability or responsibility for your actions...instead, you can blame it on "the universe" and not your own choices.

Well, mike, I don't think that's entirely correct. There's a saying that goes: "Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell; spirituality is for people who have already been there." Spirituality in itself is an acceptance of oneself and the idea that no one is perfect, but that you strive to be the best you can be, including taking personal responsibility for whatever situation you happen to be in. Which brings us back around to HiT and his "cheating" wife. I said earlier that just because she said she's attracted to someone doesn't mean she's acted on it. But I think Kristen has a good point as well: when your boyfriend/husband is deployed overseas, and you need reassurance that all is well with your relationship, you don't use such attention-getting tactics as to tell him you're attracted to someone! Again, the whole idea of personal responsibility comes into here. Treat the other person the way you would want to be treated. How would she feel if he wrote to her about some hottie in his platoon? Not too damn good, I would imagine.

'So, instead of just accepting what they have done and learn to accept the guilt...'

People that aren't involved in religion don't feel guilty all the time for everything. They take responsibility for their actions, think things through beforehand, and make a conscious decision at the moment the decison must be made as to how they should act.

I find the religious don't take responsibility for their actions, usually blame other people for 'tempting' them. They focus way too much on trying not to have sex, then succumb to this normal primal urge, then feel guilty.

Nicely said Kristen, you are a jewel and I hope your boyfriend knows it.

If you are feeling left out because you kids aren't married, here's a suggestion: Write to your boyfriend's chaplain (he's more of a morale officer than a religious figure.) He would be thrilled to work with you to write an open letter to all the guys with girlfriends back home. The sentiments from your post above would be a great comfort to all the guys overseas and might knock some sense into them regarding those "3 little words."

That about wraps it up for god! Now, back to our story, in which a lonely soldier fighting for his country can't get any answers to his questions because some angry old Christian has to monopolize the thread.

Let's watch!

I like you, Gog.

And regarding this: ""Godless harlots such as myself don't get married at all, or they get married later in life - hence, fewer divorces." -- Pirate Joe

Got some statistical data to back up that claim?"

Yes, see the U.N. divorce statistics. I don't have them on me -- they're back in the USA and I'm in Paris -- but I believe the greatest likelihood for divorcing is for people between 20 and 24. As people get older, their likelihood of getting divorced decreases a great deal.

The 20-24 group's increased risk of divorce makes a lot of sense, as people at this age go through a great deal of personal change -- or should -- but they often stunt their personal growth by prematurely locking themselves into a relationship.

TO: All
RE: Back On-Topic

Glad to be here.

Sorry I've been away for a while. Business and government and such.

More tomorrow, when I 'stand down' from the previously mentioned.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Better be a nettle in the side of your friend than his echo. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson]

TO: mike
RE: Hey!

"Just an idea of mine, since we are talking about religion... Are we???" -- mike

One of the more cogent presentations I've seen here, to date.

However, I have to apologize for going WAAAAAAY off-topic.

Maybe we should put this discussion on 'hold' for another thread, to which it is better suited, here.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Timing is darn near 'everything'.]

TO: Kristen
RE: Something About 'Commitment'

"...with no ring on my finger and yet...the army considers me unimportant because I am not married...there is absolutely no consideration for guys with girlfriends so is it really a surrpise with the extra pay and benefits and consideration that many enlisted guys rush into marriage...or that so many young enlisted guys have issues with their marriages when they deploy..." -- Kristen

Your guy raised his right hand and swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

He made a commitment. With his very life.

The Army takes things like 'commitments' VERY seriously. So seriously that they tend to execute those who do not honor their commitment with their very life, if the situation comes down to that.

Without a 'marriage', the Army will not think that some two people have made a 'commitment'.

It's frustrating, but there it is. You place your bets and you takes your chances. And that is the state of life....as the Army sees it.

It's not a 'bed of roses'. It's Life. Writ large. And, from their perspective, it's FULL of 'commitments'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It takes two to tango.]

Just heard a very sad (and unfortunately true) story last night that related to this topic...a Marine who was supposed to be returning home a few days ago from a 7 month deployment was told by his wife that she was 3 weeks pregnant. He shot himself.
I personally believe that suicide is a very selfish decision and that no else "causes" it, but how horrible to influence and contribute to it in this manner. The truth is that no one who hasn't been in a combat zone really knows what goes on in one's head when mortality is a daily, real, in your face issue. When the only thing that's been your hope of staying alive all these days tells us that she's been f*cking someone else while you've got your neck out, it can cause someone to snap. In this case, it was the push that sent this kid over the edge....

Note to Kristen: Keep up the good work, be strong, and may your soldier appreciate what he's got in you. So many other guys and gals are not so lucky.

TO: Beth, et al.
RE: Truly Sad

"....a Marine who was supposed to be returning home a few days ago from a 7 month deployment was told by his wife that she was 3 weeks pregnant. He shot himself." -- Beth

The family has my sympathy.

RE: Cause v. Effect

"I personally believe that suicide is a very selfish decision and that no else "causes" it...." -- Beth

Sounds like you start off with a serious problem about cause and effect matters.

"In this case, it was the push that sent this kid over the edge...." -- Beth

However, you do seem to 'catch on', in the end.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It's all too easy to destroy a human being. Even with mere words.]

Women like that are low. About as low as a man that would leave a pregnant wife. It is natural to miss someone, but for a woman to betray a man who is stuck in a war zone is lower than low. AND, thanks to feminists and their whipped-RINO comrades, this woman can sleep with whomever she wants, divorce him while he is gone, rent his house to a biker gang and still attach part of his military pension.

This is what I have to say to your wife: Nice going. Way to keep up your husband's morale as he's getting shot at. What a friggin' self-centered douchebag whore you are.

DUMP HER!!

Men: Don't get maried!!
http://www.mgtow.com/

Your wife should take after the army wife on Nip/Tuck and get some peanut butter and a dog.

Don't know what to say to you man, I'm kinda in the same situation. I'm in Iraq right now in my fifth of fifteen months and my wife's back states-side holding down a job and keeping the household (which I've never even seen) straight. She works plenty and, sometimes, decides to go to the bar after work with some of the folks she works with. This wouldn't really bother me so much if she wasn't one of two women who works in a kitchen full of young, single, horny, college-age (or just after) men. Call me an asshole, but I kinda take issue with my wife going drinking with a bunch of guys that probably already want to nail her. She thinks I'm just being overprotective and worrying to much because she "loves me and doesn't want to cheat on me". Which is all well and good to hear, really; but over the phone it can only mean so much right? Far as we know on our end, she's just saying that to reassure you between ****s in her mouth. Sorry, the was a bit inappropriate and I'm getting to personal in this. The only real advice I can give is to let her know how you feel about the situation (and ask that she not hang around with the guy anymore, if she really respects you and your concern she will at least minimize contact); let her know (frequently) how much you love her and how much she means to you; remind her of how important your marriage is to both of you; and (the King of All Guilt-Trips) let her know that you trust her...even if you don't. If nothing else, maybe, if the situation arises and she's seriously considering getting with the guy she'll stop for a half-second and realize how much it would hurt both of you to break that trust (even if it never was really there). That's what I'm running on, and so far it's (allegedly) worked...she spends most of her nights at home with the cat (presumably ONLY the cat) on the phone with me...

Some of you are telling him to try to forget about it until he comes home but that isn't that easy. It's probly gonna bug him everyday untill he comes home