Columns

How does this guy know that this co-worker with the great weekends is telling the whole truth? I've known a few people who go on and on about how "everyone loves my jokes!" or "they all loved the salad I brought!" When it turns out that in reality their friends/coworkers were only being polite.

Why does he think his weekends have to suck because he doesn't have a girlfriend? Yeah, getting laid always makes a weekend BETTER, but it's far from the only option. He could go out with friends, go to a movie, some sort of event (sports or music, etc..)

Maybe his weekends are lame because he's lame... if he sets out to do fun things, he's likely to meet a female who is also doing fun things, and maybe they can do them together. Even if not, he can still have fun.

In fact, my whole summer’s been lame because I can’t find a girlfriend.

This is a fact. Learn from it. This is the universe telling you to change your act. If you don't, do you think next summer will be any different?

He sounds pretty depressing to be with. People probably avoid him because he's a big downer.

I'd also suggest that he take a look at making the most of himself, which will make him feel a lot better and project a more positive energy. Eat better, go to the gym, enrich his life through art or whatever makes him happy, and spruce up his wardrobe. Maybe 5 gay men should kidnap him and do a makeover... oh wait-that show got cancelled.

He could look at Brad Pitt as his role model. Nice haircut, clean, well dressed, nice body, probably smells nice.... I'm getting distracted. Anyways, women are visual, and if a guy is gainfully employed, thus satifying our estrogen-based requirements, it can't hurt to try to look great!

You know, the guys that have recently hit on me in bars would make a lot of women cry (or howl with laughter, until they cry). So sure, we can just show up. But the chances of meeting someone I actually want to talk to haven't improved just because the number of guys who talk to me has. But I don't talk to guys first. I don't buy them drinks, make the silly jokes, or ask them for cigarettes. I must at least give credit to the ones who do. You're probably that guy who corners himself next to the register, alone, looking hungry. That's scary. You know how they say guys need a place to have sex, girls need a reason? Well give 'em a reason. If you can't even put a little effort into it, what do you expect? P.S. Don't believe the crap that Mystery guy on VH1 is peddling. I recently met a guy in a bar who called me- get this- THE NEXT DAY! And every day after that, until we actually went out on a DATE! It was so refreshing. We all know that guys don't naturally go from getting hard to hard to get, so don't pretend. Otherwise, she will know you're playing games and don't have enough spine to make your own "rules."

Y'know, Lame Just Unloading, you could always bag the self-pity party and pretend to have fun. Got any friends? Hang with them, pretending to have fun, and sooner or later, you won't have to pretend, it'll be the real thing. Don't worry so much about what you're not getting or doing, and just start having a life. (It wouldn't hurt to grow a backbone where your wishbone is! o_O)

If your life is "lame" without a girlfriend, it won't be any less lame with a girlfriend. In fact, it might be lamer, considering lame people tend to attract and retain lame partners.

I honestly can't think of a single lame person who suddenly became cool by virtue of having a significant other...

So, if the LW sees himself as lame, he won't exactly be attracting rocket scientist supermodels...he'll be attracting (if anyone) low self-esteem women who just want some guy to call "my boyfriend" who will hold their purse for them, or, even worse, NEEDY women.

So I think that the LW needs to concentrate on making himself interesting and becoming so busy with hobbies/activities that he has no time to think about how "lame" he supposedly is.

Pardon me but I live in NYC and I find LW sort of refreshing. Most of the people I know who live in Manhattan, men and women, have a game face of steel, and are excellent attitude spin doctors no matter how crappy they feel.

Everyone is right; being an interesting person with your own good life and life satisfactions is the way to be appealing and connect with others; but sometimes here on this Brazilian wax of an island I admit to tiring of hearing and living the ethos is that the best way to have someone enter your life is to not need someone enter your life. I know, I know. It's just that there is short patience for, and a reeking horror of, people expressing prostrate unrepentant sorrow that they lack a significant other. It's kind of un-numbing to hear, and from a man, no less.

Einstein said that the definition of insanity is to repeat something -- an experiment, a behavior, whatever -- over and over and OVER again, doing everything exactly the same way every time, and yet remain surprised when the outcome never changes. (I guess he saw a lot of that kind of thing).

Einstein was right about a lot; he might be right about this. And the single biggest constant in the LW's experiment is the LW. So, LW, start changing stuff. Your call -- what's first? What's your overriding issue? Angry? dorky? depressing? creepy? WAY out of shape? nose hair? Whatever it is, someone, at some point, has let it all rip and told you what turned her off. So you already know of at least one thing that didn't work for you at least one time. Change that first. Still no good? Well, keep making changes.

Oh, and Flynne and Sofar are both absolutely right. It sounds silly, but "fake it 'til you make it" really works. And if you keep making real, positive changes -- to yourself, to your attitude, etc. -- then you'll eventually appeal to and hold the interest of the girl of your dreams, instead of just any old girl with a pulse.

I’m going to turn the tables around and provide a different perspective. I used to be insanely resentful of men because I thought they had the upper hand. You see getting judged by my body has not always been pleasurable (especially as a socially awkward individual). Now, I used to think, well I’d have no problem attaining a successful position in society, approaching women and asking them out, and being judged on my accomplishments. Women have the pressure of keeping their looks, getting married and bearing children and calling those two things ‘the greatest accomplishment of my life’. So….I’m going to say a little secret about being hit on. 95% of the time it’s fucking annoying. Yes—fucking annoying. It doesn’t always make you feel good, but harassed. My favorite sort of individuals is the one ones that hit on you and you just plain ignore only to have them retort with a “you’re a stuck up bitch.” A lot of men feel a sense of entitlement, and a lot of men like to project their sexual fantasies on you…which to most women are terribly uninteresting (for example we do not get wet at the idea of ‘your big 12 inch dick”). I hope this guy stops living in fantasy land of what it’s like to be a woman. Yes social situations come easier to us, but finding love is just as hard. If being a beautiful woman that gets hit on and desired by legions of men were the key to happiness than well....we wouldnt have all those beautiful starlets/models in abusive relationships.

Also, I'm thinking LW's idea of a good time is easy, meaningless sex with any woman who says yes to him. If so, he doesn't have much respect for himself, or for the women he wants to date, especially if he thinks that a "good time" is free drinks and sex with someone who lies to you about being married or having tons of baggage. The women I know who go around sleeping with guys so indiscriminately that they only later discover that they're married, aren't really having a good time, they're having a BUSY time doing things to distract themselves from their basic unhappiness, loneliness, or emotional pain, and it's evidence of their LOW self-esteem, not intact self-esteem. Because you still end up rejected in the end, but by that time, you've also been lied to and used. (Not that I think there's anything wrong with being promiscuous in and of itself, it's just that I don't see many Samantha Joneses around--I see more lonely, low self-esteem promiscuity). So this attitude he has probably comes through to women, and the healthy ones aren't interested in him as a result.

I sorta feel for both sides here:
About a year ago, I decided that I would not get down and feel great regardless of what was happening. It took a bit of getting used to, but man, does it work! I'm a lot happier than I ever was before. That is really the best way to improve your life.
On the other hand, almost a year out of a 4-year relationship, it really can be tough to meet women. I'm not going to go to church to meet them, and I'm acutely aware that most women don't enjoy being hit on at bars and such, so I don't do it. After all, if you know they won't enjoy it, wouldn't it make you a jerk if you went for it anyway?

Pardon me but I live in NYC and I find LW sort of refreshing.

I think there's a difference between putting on a "game face," and not depending on other people for a satisfying life. Nobody wants to know some resentful sad-sack. It's tough to meet people, but if you acknowledge that, and go out to have fun and not just as a rapacious pickup artist, you're more likely to have an aura of being comfortable with yourself, and thus will be somebody people are more interested in meeting.

"Also, I'm thinking LW's idea of a good time is easy, meaningless sex with any woman who says yes to him."

*Well, that doesn't exactly sound like a bad time . . .

Mike - bars/clubs are the worst place to pick up women. They're usually looking for free drinks and buttressed by the "wall of friends." Best place to pick up women? Anywhere you're not supposed to. Post office, Kinko's, the gas station, walking down the street. Totally unexpected. Plus, if you follow Amy's advice and put half an effort into looking nice every day, you'll already be in the 90th percentile before you open your mouth.

Wendy - you're absolutely wrong about VH1's Mystery. Remember, he's really just teaching guys how to open up a conversation and spark interest, not how to have a relationship. Some guys need the confidence-boost of a routine to approach a woman. To that extent, he's really providing a service to the shy.

SnakeOilMan:

I don't like Mystery. I don't dislike Mystery. I hate the very thought him and what he represents. I hate any guy who is going to treat getting a woman into bed like shoplifting a candy bar in a store with closed-circuit cameras. Like it's something you have to lie about so you don't get caught by the idiot shopkeeper, as if we didn't know! Personally, I was born too late to realize that men were going to treat me like a moron just because of my sex, and I didn't get it until it was WAAAAAY too late to flush my brain down the toilet. I grew up thinking that I was just as good as any boy, (usually smarter) so trying to find one I can be ok about sleeping with has been a lot harder than it really ought to be. But it's not my fault. Until someone can treat me like a human being who it SO happens also wants to get laid, not some body only useful from the neck down, I'm not settling for some D-bag playing hand tricks and using fake verbal hypnosis techniques. Are you f-ing kidding me?

Wendy -

Mystery (and any of the dozens of authors who peddle "how to get girls" guides) are teaching men how to approach, flirt with, and be interesting to, available women. For the socially awkward, these tips can be positive and life-altering. You wouldn't rail against a self-help guide that boosted confidence and effectiveness in the workplace. Why protest a guide that helps men get the women they want?

On the "Mystery" front: let's not forget that there are also TONS of books, magazines, etc., dedicated to helping WOMEN land the MEN they want.

Bottom line: awkward, lost, clueless people -- and plenty who are none of the above! -- are ALL interested in dating tips. If they weren't, you wouldn't see all those "hot" women reading Cosmo ("Drive Him Wild! Keep His Interest!") on the stair-stepper at the gym, right alongside all the "hot" guys with their copies of Details and Men's Health.

...in fact, whenever I'm at the gym, and look up from the latest episode of Psych on my iPod, I'm always WILDLY amused by those men and women. Apparently, nobody's got it all figured out, no matter who they are or what they look like. And that's why the "Mystery" man will be in business for as long as he wants. : )

SnakeOil:
You know what, you're right. All's fair, so if this, uh, snake oil helps "men" get the "women they want," (snort) then more power to them. These guys are definitely not the ones I date anyway. Anyone who has even a little teeny BS detector isn't going to be impressed, so my concern is that an adorably awkward introvert (preferably dark-haired with glasses) who is really smart and secretly really horny is gonna start taking these "tips" and send the gals he should be doing running into the arms of a better LIAR. Really, is this a lying contest? I like watching the ones that are SMOOVE. They're highly entertaining, they usually buy a lot of drinks, and I feel ohsonotbad about leaving without a goodbye. In fact, it's fun. Now ain't that a shame?

At least the guys that are using Mystery's techniques are trying to improve themselves. If they are working on their self confidence and their looks, maybe some of that will stick after the hypnosis BS gets tired.

I've been trying to figure out if I can see telltale signs before sleeping with a guy if he will be good in bed. Since so many guys hit on me (and every other woman in the world), I've got a pretty large sample size to choose from, and since I've very picky I only try out a few. The 3 factors I've learned to look for are: confidence, sensitivity and intelligence. A guy might be able to develop the first of these 3 but you've got to be born with the other 2 unfortunately.

I watched the Pick-Up artist, and I found it very entertaining and intriguing (granted, I also watch The Hills and America's Next Top Model). Some of what Mystery teaches is kinda gimmicky (He used to be a magician, apparently, so he seems to do some "tricks" that test for compliance. Stage hypnotists use them too). But a lot of the stuff seems pretty helpful: body language to demonstrate confidence and higher value; NOT falling back on buying girls drinks as a pick-up technique; techniques to not being intimidating; conversation starters; and (my personal favorite)judging when a girl is just annoyed/not interested/not attracted/sketched out and knowing when to just leave her the hell alone move on.

I agree with snakeman that Mystery's techniques can be helpful to otherwise shy guys to meet new people, converse with women, guage whether or not they're interested, and have a good time.

I'm not angry at guys, because anger turns into bitterness and you'll wind up like Joan Allen in 'The Upside of Anger'.

Women have to figure out what they expect from men and if it's reasonable to have those expectations. Basically guys just want sex, so I don't see anything wrong with just thinking of men as sex objects-that's how they see women, so at least it's a level playing field.

"I'm not angry at guys, because anger turns into bitterness and you'll wind up like Joan Allen in 'The Upside of Anger'."

There are worse fates. What is Joan now, 50-something? Still hot. I'd pay to watch her read the phonebook.

wow! Someone used my user name! So, i guess I will be theothermike now...

wondering...Why would any kind of promiscuity be considered "empowering"?

Who is Samantha Jones????

Anyway...Dude, you need to seriously start spending time with the guys. Forget about making having a girlfriend the reason why you would have a good summer. Its not worth it...really. Go have fun with your buds...don't worry, once you start hanging out with your guy friends you will end up in a situation where there will be single women. Getting laid is great, but you should not let it define you, nor should you let the opposite gender hold such power over you...seriously--if you don't focus on it so much you will be amazed how it will be like moths to a candle eventually...

Chrissy - you don't think sensitivity can be developed. If you think sensitivity is more than simply paying attention to what your partner is doing, then please elaborate. If it is paying attention to what your partner is doing, which is what I think it is, then it is NOT an innate ability, but rather a skill that CAN be developed. I'm not saying that all men or even a sizable percentage DO develop it, but that it can be done.

'"I'm not angry at guys, because anger turns into bitterness and you'll wind up like Joan Allen in 'The Upside of Anger'."

There are worse fates. What is Joan now, 50-something? Still hot. I'd pay to watch her read the phonebook.'

Joan Allen is an actor. She was playing a character in the movie 'The Upside of Anger'. The character in the movie is the one who is bitter and angry. This is the point I was trying to put across, that women should not become like the character in the movie played by Joan Allen.

I hope that is a bit clearer now (maybe it's a reading comprehension thing).

'...you don't think sensitivity can be developed. If you think sensitivity is more than simply paying attention to what your partner is doing, then please elaborate.'

I probably should have used the words 'empathic', or 'intuitive', because what I mean is the ability to be in tune with another person on a subconscious level.

Paying attention to your partner is admirable and probably sufficient for most people. Since I know there are guys out there that are empathic, I don't mind spending the time and energy on my quest.

Theothermike, Samantha Jones is the hot, sultry, non-apologetic-sex-enjoying woman in 'Sex and the City', played by Kim Catrall, who is also pretty hot herself! o_O

'...you don't think sensitivity can be developed. If you think sensitivity is more than simply paying attention to what your partner is doing, then please elaborate.'

I think "being a sensitive male" means we're supposed to be aware (and actually give a shit) of our female partner's feelings. We do NOT, however, need to have any feelings of our own. Then we're just being a pain in the ass... A REALLY sensitive guy takes the queu' for his own actions based on how he thinks it MIGHT make her feel... A completely pointless endeavor.

No, no, Morbideus, that's not so. Of course you need to have feelings of your own. The trick is for men and women to be mutually aware of each others feelings so as to relate to each other and be respectful of each other. Yeah I know I'm living in a dream world... o_O

flynne,

I guess thats why I did not know who she is, as I made a point never to watch that show...funny how you made a point to say "hot,sultry, non-apologetic-sex-enjoying woman" Who cares what some TV character is doing...!

Flynne, what are you thinking? If WE actually have feelings, then we are being wussies, and they start asking, "Where have all the real men gone?"

We are supposed to revolve around, and make THEIR feelings of the utmost importance. OUR feelings aren't to matter to anyone, including ourselves.

The fact is, generally, we DON'T care about our own feelings, and we don't care about theirs either. Once we start paying attention and careing about theirs, we notice ours, and they hate that.

That's why you get books and consultants teaching guys how to lie to get females to think we are what we aren't. That's the happy medium.

That's why you get books and consultants teaching guys how to lie to get females to think we are what we aren't. That's the happy medium.

But it's all a load of bullshit, and you get caught in lies, and we hate those lies! There is no happy medium if all you're doing is lying. And it's too much damn work to sustain the lies. But hey, if it works for you, go for it. Just don't be bitching later on when it stops working for you. And believe me, it will.

Hey Flynne...

you said: "But hey, if it works for you, go for it. Just don't be bitching later on when it stops working for you. And believe me, it will."

Lying to women to get laid has been working for as long as there have been humans on this planet...sorry, but 40 years of recent history is not going to change that! Really funny!

"Lying to women to get laid has been working for as long as there have been humans on this planet..."

Actually this is true. If all you want to do is get laid, and never have anyone love you, and not remain friends with any of the women you have been with, then by all means keep lying and keep the constant supply of pussy coming in!

It is easy to stereotype that men only want sex and don't care about love, women only want love and don't care about sex, and they both put forth the pretense of one to get the other. I just don't see things working that way in real life. I think most men and women want some of both in their lives.

I honestly have not had very many men lie to me in order to get me to sleep with them. It has happened a couple of times, and guess what? They don't get invited to my parties anymore. No more Thai curry or creamy pasta for THEM! But plenty of former boyfriends DO still get invited to my parties, no bad feelings, and the difference? It's always their honesty. Honesty might cost a guy a lay if the truth about him is unappealing, but it does tend to strengthen ones social circle.

What I've noticed is that most guys are completely unaware of their emotions & feelings. I don't understand how women think they would be able to have any kind of a healthy relationship with someone as out of touch with themselves as that. That's probably why a lot of women are so angry all the time, because they think guys are deliberately witholding all kinds of emotional support that these women think they need from the guy.

If you can see a guy for who he is and accept him, acknowledging that he isn't going to take care of all of your emotional needs, you'll both be a lot happier.

Its funny how you gals say "he needs to be a real man" and then dump him for a metrosexual type who shows his emotions, and then dump him because he can't be a real man...no wonder guys are so confused. So, we tend to default to the caveman just to be safe...I guess its the same way for us...we want a slut to satisfy our every carnal desire, and then dump the slut because we secretly want a "good" girl, and then dump her because she won't put out...like i said, very confusing. oh yeah, I don't mean all women and I don't mean all men...

Amen Chrissy...if you just accept people for who they are, and don't push political agendas, we would all be much happier in relationships.

Being a real man doesn't mean not showing emotion. The question is, what kind of emotions? The guy's a whiner and a blamer -- a complete turnoff...in a man or a woman, I might add.

Amen Chrissy...if you just accept people for who they are, and don't push political agendas, we would all be much happier in relationships.

So, theothermike, I should just accept that a guy who wants to get in my pants is a chronic liar who won't meet me halfway emotionally? No, thanks. I like my emotional boyfriend, the one who cried when his daughter gave him a photo album of their life together before she went off to Boston to live and go to school. The one who doesn't lie to me about anything, ever, and calls other people out on their bullshit. The one who loves my daughters as if they were his own. The one who shot a huge buck, with his bow, on opening day this year. Yeah, that guy. o_O

I like my emotional boyfriend, the one who cried when his daughter gave him a photo album of their life together before she went off to Boston to live and go to school. The one who doesn't lie to me about anything, ever, and calls other people out on their bullshit. The one who loves my daughters as if they were his own. The one who shot a huge buck, with his bow, on opening day this year.

That's a man. P.S. My guy-guy boyfriend, who gets physically ill if he walks in my house when Sex And The City is on the TV, is incapable of denying my three-pound dog anything whatsoever, and is extremely emotional and sentimental, which makes me love him all the more. And then, for a living, goes out with the cops to murder scenes with three chopped up bodies in the basement -- and doesn't even hurl.

"we want a slut to satisfy our every carnal desire, and then dump the slut because we secretly want a "good" girl, and then dump her because she won't put out...like i said, very confusing"

You are displaying a very unusual level of self-awareness (for a guy), theothermike. How do guys move beyond the vicious cycle described above?

Doing what he says he's going to do is being a man. Mine's like that, too. In fact, the only "fights" we ever have are if I tell him, "You don't have to x," when I realize it's better for him if he doesn't (do something he's promised to do for me). He'll say, "But, I told you I'd do it." And that's usually that.

I don't think we can get past that, Chrissy. Human nature tends to root people in whatever mindset they have lived by most of their time on the planet. Going back and forth is the norm, in my opinion.

I'll use myself for an example. I was dating a very nice girl from a nice family. We actually lived together. I was a typical guy...sports/beer/out with the guys--whatever. So I did not have a clue about being the emotional type at all. It started getting boring and I left the relationship for someone "wild", the toal antithesis of a "good" girl..wow she was something else. But oddly enough, after a while I yearned for someone "nice" again, as the wild one had little to offer...I started developing a need to share feelings and such. Anyway, wildone and I broke up and I started dating one who was all into me learning about myself, discovering my spirituality, and having tantric sex. This was all real cool for awhile and then slowly her narcissistic personality started coming out. It was like jekyl and hyde...she was physically abusive, used sex as a weapon, constantly put me down, constantly talked about how superior she and women were...an absolute nightmare...

okay, I got off topic. My point is that I tried to change myself and embrace something new and got totally derided for being a pu--y and showing emotions. I thought I was growing or something. So, happily, now I am back to my old caveman self, having gone through the spectrum of slut/goodgirl/slut/whatever, and going from insensitive clod to metrosexual wannabe and back to clod.

Interesting, two of my former superhero personalities have showed up on this site recently, Bitterman and Desperate Dude. When I was fighting crime (or whatever) during this time, I was about as popular with the ladies as a wart, yummy. Good advice, Amy, right on.

"The one who doesn't lie to me about anything, ever, and calls other people out on their bullshit."

He's sure got you snowed...

"My point is that I tried to change myself and embrace something new and got totally derided for being a pu--y and showing emotions. I thought I was growing or something. So, happily, now I am back to my old caveman self, having gone through the spectrum of slut/goodgirl/slut/whatever, and going from insensitive clod to metrosexual wannabe and back to clod."

Now THAT is evolution!

I was emotional at one time as well. I got into philosophy and "my Inner Child" and all of that other happy horse shit. It was a worthwhile experience for learning and growing, and I'm glad as hell it's over.

Raised to deny my emotions, learned that I did indeed have them, revelled in them, wallowed in them, and then kicked their ass. Good Riddance. At least now I have a better clue of how they work, so I can squash them like bugs if they threaten to crop up again.

"But it's all a load of bullshit, and you get caught in lies, and we hate those lies! There is no happy medium if all you're doing is lying. And it's too much damn work to sustain the lies. But hey, if it works for you, go for it. Just don't be bitching later on when it stops working for you. And believe me, it will."

No it won't. It's like chicks faking orgasms. You wouldn't know it was fake unless we told you.

So why would a guy want to be in a relationship with a woman if he has no need for his own emotions or the woman's emotions? My theory, and let me know if I'm right, is for the regular sex, and any other perks that may come along, like housekeeping and being fed.

Geez, Morbedius, he's got me snowed? You know him, then? Hang out with him? Go hunting with him? You haven't got a friggin' clue.

You're totally snowed by your own lies to yourself. Good luck with that.

Flynne, I'm totally snowed by my own lies to myself? Do you know me then? Hang out with me? Go hunting with me? You haven't got a friggin' clue. I do, however, appreciate the "Good Luck" wish, and I hope you are fortunate in everything you do...

"So why would a guy want to be in a relationship with a woman if he has no need for his own emotions or the woman's emotions? My theory, and let me know if I'm right, is for the regular sex, and any other perks that may come along, like housekeeping and being fed."

You've got something there, but it's not that cut & dry. I'm not advocating a "Spock-like" coldness, and it's not like we don't care about our mates. Of course we care about YOU (in the general "as a woman" sense", it's that we often don't understand why you get upset about the things you get upset about... or happy about really.

Example: Females love to get flowers. We know you like to get flowers, so we'll give you flowers. We don't understand WHY you like to get flowers, and if you gave us flowers, we wouldn't understand why you did that either. But we can give them and look like a sensitive, caring guy. That's one of those "lies" you learn.

Another example: She comes home, there are dishes in the sink, the house is a mess, and he's watching TV. (We'll say football, but it could be anything.) She reacts emotionally, gets pissed, starts yelling and whatever else she does when she's mad. He says, "O.K., as soon as this is over I'll clean the house and wash the dishes." Now she hits the fuckin' ROOF!! Why? We have no idea, and suspect we really don't want to...

Fair enough, Morbideus, fair enough.

Another example: She comes home, there are dishes in the sink, the house is a mess, and he's watching TV. (We'll say football, but it could be anything.) She reacts emotionally, gets pissed, starts yelling and whatever else she does when she's mad. He says, "O.K., as soon as this is over I'll clean the house and wash the dishes." Now she hits the fuckin' ROOF!! Why? We have no idea, and suspect we really don't want to...

Well, yeah, because how often does he come home to a shitstorm, with her sitting there watching TV or reading, with the house in total disarray, and she says she'll do it "later"? Not often, so when she comes home to it, she feels that this is the height of inconsideration, and would it kill him, just once, to do the dishes or straighten up? Of course, he'll argue that if he does it once, she'll expect it of him again, and it turns into a lost cause. I appreciate it when my bf gets the laundry started and has dinner started for us when he takes a day off to go hunting and gets home before I do. Last time, he was helping daughter #2 fold the laundry while #1 was vacuuming. I was delighted, and said so. He asked me, "What, do you think you have to do everything around here?" He got blow job that night, and the night after that, too.

All this stress about housework must take all the fun out of a relationship. What's the big attraction about living together anyways?

This woman I talked to at a book party glorified it again last night, about how she's gotten through those times when "you really hate the person" (her husband) and this is the triumph of true love. I told her, "Um, I'm really annoying, over long periods of time," and made the point that if you eliminate living together you can probably eliminate the hating each other part. She's convinced I'll someday "grow up" and see her point of view. (Not the exact words she used -- "grow up" -- but that was the gist of it.) I think I'm more "grown up" than she is, knowing what human nature is like and living accordingly, instead of living by rote.

While I am happy with my situation as it is now, I think Kate Hepburn had the right idea when she said (paraphrasing here), "I don't think men and women were meant to live together, we should just live next door and visit once in a while."

I'm totally with Amy on this one. I have no intention of ever living with a guy again, mostly because of the housework issue. Also the money issue, and the ruination of sex issue (how can the dog chase the ball if the ball isn't moving?)