Can't Take A Choke
I'm a 30-year-old woman with a great new man in my life. I hesitate in calling him my boyfriend because I'm super-cautious about jumping the gun. I refer to him as "my guy," "my partner in crime," "my buddy," but I know he's more than just "the guy I hang out with." We've been dating for two months, and we've barely been apart for more than a day. Meanwhile, he calls me his girlfriend and hints at us moving in together and getting married. He says he's joking when I say he's got to be kidding. But, he is very dedicated to me. What's my problem? How do you know when to feel okay about commitment, the terminology, living together, and the like?
--Commitmentphobe
Don't be too quick to knock fear of commitment. Many people take a far-too-relaxed approach to deciding somebody's good for the long haul: "I just knew -- from the moment I closed my eyes and stuck my finger on her name in the phone book."
Random acts of commitment usually come out of persistent desperation. Two months in, this guy's already talking about moving in together and getting married. This suggests he's looking for somebody special -- with emphasis on the somebody. Of course, when you raise an eyebrow or two, he's "joking." Right. Why did the chicken cross the road? To get away from the wild-eyed man chasing it at top speed with a wedding ring.
Considering his haste, it's no surprise you're bypassing the word "boyfriend" for "buddy," which makes him sound like the successor to your last guy, Rin Tin Tin, and your dabble in college with Lassie. (She was hopeful you'd eventually introduce her as Suzanne.) Unless you've left a trail of broken men, or have a habit of dating the unavailable (married, felonious), you probably aren't hesitating out of some unhealthy fear of commitment but a healthy assessment of where you are: He's more than a guy you hang out with every day, but you're not sure how much more. Unfortunately, there's a tendency to think of a relationship as either "committed" or nothing. There's actually a stage in between -- being "involved." Tennis star Martina Navratilova explained the difference: "Think of ham and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig is committed."
When I hear couples brag, "We just knew from the moment we saw each other!" I'm amazed that they think this is romantic, and not an announcement that they're idiots. I always want to ask, "What, exactly, did you know? That she's reasonably tall, attractive in a sort of bookish way, and you wanted to have sex with her?" What's actually romantic isn't committing to somebody because you see how lovable, sexy, and charming they can be, but because you find out how annoying, insufferable, and lacking in some basic table manner they are, and it's still not enough to chase you away. Plus, there are all those big issues: sex, money, and are you an atheist who secretly hates kids and is he hoping you two can raise your 12 children as Mormons? It takes time -- and time unglued from each other's sides -- to see who somebody is. Take both, and you'll be more likely to end up with a guy who loves you for who you truly are -- beyond the fact that you're single, female, conveniently located, and don't seem to find him sexually repellant.
It's nice to meet someone and like them right away. If you'd like to keep feeling that way, don't ruin it by moving in together or getting married.
Pirate Jo at December 17, 2008 8:28 AM
LOL! Truer words were never spoken, PJ! Spanks for the chuckle! o.O
Flynne at December 17, 2008 8:29 AM
And ya know, I've said this about women, but the same can be applied to some men: Desperation isn't pretty. It's not at all attractive in either gender. And what's that other old adage? "If something seems to good to be true, it probably is"?
Flynne at December 17, 2008 9:15 AM
I have to admit, the first time I saw my SO, it was like in a movie, with all the gag-worthy effects. He was all I saw. Not saying it was love at first sight, but there was definitely a connection there I hadn't experienced before. We have been together a little over three years, and that feeling is still there. I knew the first time I spoke to him he was "the one" for me.
amber at December 17, 2008 9:37 AM
"Random acts of commitment usually come out of persistent desperation."
I'll only add that the guy may not necessarily be desperate. He may just be at a point where he knows he is ready for something serious. It sounds to me like he's testing her commitment waters with his joking comments, and she's getting nervous.
Nothing wrong with Amy's advice to take it slow, but LW would be wise to treat Boyfriend's efforts gently, assuming he remains reasonable.
snakeman99 at December 17, 2008 10:39 AM
@snakeman99:
I think you might be on to something. I sometimes think that men end up marrying the woman they're with when they're suddenly "ready" to get married. Other times, I think it's the woman who inspires the matrimonial feelings. It still remains to be seen what happens to me.
Tyler at December 17, 2008 11:35 AM
Tyler -
I can state pretty firmly that what you describe is exactly what happened to me. I dated around for along while, and was involved with some great ladies that would probably have made wonderful wives. But I would have been a pretty shitty husband.
Lucky for Mrs. Snake that she came around at the right time!
snakeman99 at December 17, 2008 12:48 PM
I think it's up to her to decide if he's the right guy for her. If he's just in commitment mode, she just happened to be at the right place at the right time for him. It's not particularly flattering, because he doesn't know her at all. She should take things extremely slowly to see what he's like when he's acting like himself and not just on his best behaviour. She can also see if he genuinely likes her, because that will also come through in the way he treats her. My personal rule is a minimum of 2 years of dating is required to see who a guy is.
Chrissy at December 17, 2008 1:04 PM
"My personal rule is a minimum of 2 years of dating is required to see who a guy is."
Chrissy listens to Dr. Laura
snakeman99 at December 17, 2008 1:27 PM
the two year rule is perfect. In my experience, after so much time has passed, it is usually the woman who starts the pressuring the guy for marriage.
mike at December 17, 2008 4:01 PM
I probably did something that others would consider stupid. I moved in with my current boyfriend after six months. We've both been married before and didn't feel like we needed all that much time to know what we wanted. We've been together 8 months now and are talking about marriage and possibly kids. The difference here, I think, is that we're both on the same page with it. LW, if you feel uncomfortable with considering him your boyfriend, then don't. He's putting a down payment on the car while you're still testing the wipers.
MonicaP at December 17, 2008 5:13 PM
Heh! Glad I brought you a chuckle today, Flynne! You have brought me many. :-)
When I first met my sweety, I liked his curly hair and cute butt. After we started talking, I decided I liked his voice and his smile, too. He was clever and funny - the words spilling out of his mouth didn't sound like verbal diarrhea, which is always a plus. Beyond that, what else CAN you possibly determine about a person when you first meet them?
Is he "the one?" Well, he certainly has been for the last year and a half. It's gone from sex and friendship to love, sex, and friendship. I'd call that a good sign. Ask me again in 20 years and for all I know we might still be together. However, I've gone out with some great guys in the past who, obviously, I am not still with. There are some good ones out there.
If my sweety got hit by a bus, I'd probably be numb with grief for a while, but I wouldn't curl up and wither away under a rock. Eventually I'd get my game on and meet someone else. This talk of "the one" sounds sort of teenagey and melodramatic ... "I choose (breathless pause) a mortal life! I would rather be with you than face all the ages alone!" Please. Going through the rest of my life in a series of 5-year relationships sounds ... tiring. All that adjustment, and all those ups and downs! Yet it's not like it would keep me from doing what I want to do with my life, either. Not the end of the world. I don't hesitate to end a relationship when I need to.
I'd say this LW has met a great guy who is crazy about her and will probably treat her like a queen. I say live it up! Quit fretting and enjoy it. All he's communicated to her so far is that he likes her so much, he thinks he could be happy with her for a long time, maybe even for good. Oh it could be that he's desperate to be in a relationship, but maybe he's just a guy who knows what he wants. She shouldn't be scared off by this - nobody's going to MAKE her move in with him or marry him. He's not stalking her, or hacking into her cell phone or e-mail. A guy who's crazy about you (without being creepy) is what I'd call a good guy to date. Even if it doesn't work out, he's going to show her how a guy in love acts, and improve her opinion of men in general.
It would be nice if the LW from last week could meet someone like this. She'd raise her standards in a hurry.
Pirate Jo at December 17, 2008 5:17 PM
What's my problem? How do you know when to feel okay about commitment, the terminology, living together, and the like?
You are ready to commit when you are ready to have kids together.
Norman at December 18, 2008 12:58 AM
MonicaP: "I probably did something that others would consider stupid. I moved in with my current boyfriend after six months. We've both been married before and didn't feel like we needed all that much time to know what we wanted."
I don't think it's stupid, I completely understand ... I haven't been married but have had a few major, long relationships, and I just kinda feel I've now been around the block a few times before, know what it's all about, feel more 'pragmatic' about things and like I just don't really need all that dragging-things-out and going through all the little motions and details I've been through several times before (since you start to see the patterns, and know where it ends up) ... so I felt like that in my last relationship (unfortunately my girlfriend didn't, she was younger and DID need to take things more slowly, which resulted in some problems).
DavidJ at December 18, 2008 2:29 AM
"Oh it could be that he's desperate to be in a relationship, but maybe he's just a guy who knows what he wants."
Yeah - from the sounds of it they're great together - do we really have any good reason to believe he's "just desperate" or are we just being over-suspicious and assuming there must always be some major problem? What is this pathological obsession with looking for 'bad signs' all the time? Whatever problems there are, they'll come out in time. If you look for 'bad signs' though you will always find them, since nothing is perfect.
This sentence: "What's my problem? How do you know when to feel okay ..." sounds to me like the 'problem' she seems to sense is possibly that she feels internally like she doesn't "feel as in love as she feels she 'should' be feeling (according to some expected standard, external or internal)" ... ultimately that's just the 'chemical high' you get especially when you're younger (less, I think, as you get older e.g. 30) that you can mistake for actual love (which in reality is a bit more pragmatic and mundane than the romanticized notions - but better), so I wouldn't worry about it, just give yourself time to keep bonding more closely with your partner.
DavidJ at December 18, 2008 2:43 AM
Sayeth DavidJ (and implied by others): "...I wouldn't worry about it, just give yourself time to keep bonding more closely with your partner."
This is actually kind of refreshing. LW isn't saying he's mean to her. Apparently there are no nasty little class differences. He doesn't seem to be married, or keep the corpse of his mother in the cellar. So yeah, this sounds like less of a problem than some of the ones we see on this web site. I'm inclined to agree with DavidJ -- take it easy, but don't feel obligated to make a move before you're ready. It may take a while, but if boyfriend (or whatever) is as eager then as he is now, maybe it'll be worth it.
old rpm daddy at December 18, 2008 7:22 AM
Try about 8 months and toss in language and cultural differences. Not to mention me being in the military at the time - the same military that dropped the Atomic bomb that would have killed her dad had he not traded days off with a co-worker. Meeting the in-laws had a certain apprehension most of you never got to experience.
I guess if you're both insane it can work - three decades, three kids, and counting here. (Decades, not kids.)
Hey, she was the illustration for "cute" and by far the most interesting woman I ever met. Still is. Probably magic, I can't explain it. There was no way I was leaving without her.
MarkD at December 18, 2008 10:09 AM
Hey snake, I resemble that remark! I don't listen to the Laura-monster, I came up with the 2 year idea all by my self. In my last 2 relationships, it's been the guys that have pushed for co-habitation/marriage after about 1.5 years. I knew at the 1.5 year point that the first one was a no go (no passion=no sex-he wasn't interested!) and the second one was way too neurotic, so no closing the deal with either one.
Chrissy at December 18, 2008 11:15 AM
a guy who joking about marriage only a few months into a relationship makes me nervous. however, any talk of marriage makes me nervous. i get this knot in the pit of my stomach and feel like i cant breathe. take your time. if he means it now, he'll mean it later. don't go running into something only to find out later that you regret it.
sharifa at December 20, 2008 3:58 PM
No joke, but I once told a guy that there's no such thing as "love at first sight." And he insisted that there was such a thing and that he knew there was...because it happened to him several times.
Patrick at December 21, 2008 11:19 AM
I married my husband 10 days after we met 43 years ago. I was 19 and needy. He was 26. I still can't figure out his motivation. It was for sure "lust at first sight", but was a stupid thing to do. We've worked hard to stay together. Most of the time it was me doing the working but about 10 years ago he became the man I wanted to marry. I'm not perfect either. My advice is to wait, get to know each other. Learn what he's like in all of his moods. And find out how your moods work with his.
Been There at December 21, 2008 11:26 AM
My wife and I started dating in October, I proposed in December, and we were married in March. That was 38 years ago, and there's no one else on the surface of the planet I'd rather have spent those 38 years with.
I wouldn't call it love at first sight, but it was certainty at first sight. We'd both dated quite a few other people and had gotten to the point where we knew what we were looking for. When you find what you want, you don't mess around, you go for it and make it work.
A man I used to work for said, "Make the decision, then make the decision right." He meant that it's what you do after you make the decision that makes it turn out to have been the right decision. I agree 100%.
Kirk at December 21, 2008 1:28 PM
As in life their is no set rules. "3 Dates and then straight to bed for you two'. OR "You have been sleeping together for 3 years now and you are married now under the law". No as some people commented it can be days, months, or years before you KNOW he or she is the ONE or at least GOOD ENOUGH.
Another observation is people hear what they want to hear. The LW is commenting on all the little comments BF saying towards commitment, marriage, children, retirement community living, etc. Yet the possible BF could have commented 10 times more towards leaving her if she got fat, saying he just wants to be fuck buddies, or damn the next door neighbor is smoking hot and is she sinle. Yet because of her neurosis she only really takes in the commitment talk.
Also here we also can see a double standard - A woman asks and probes on a relationship. Asking how a guy feels about children, marriage, relationships, and so on. She is just being proactive. She's just making sure she gets the right guy she wants who can supoort her in needed, give her want she wants/needs in a relationship. Yet we have a guy who does the same and he is labeled as a needy freak who is going to tie down some poor girl barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
It sounds like the above couple needs to sit down and have a HARD TALK. Hash out what each wants now and in the future - children, birth control usage, living together, etc. Remembering nothing is set in stone.
All I can remember about the first time I saw my GF of 8 years is "DAMN SHE IS PALE" and finding out she is sick. Hot, heavy and quick can work for some people - me it took a few weeks.
John Paulson at December 21, 2008 9:38 PM
I always want to ask, "What, exactly, did you know? That she's reasonably tall, attractive in a sort of bookish way, and you wanted to have sex with her?"
You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)
scottkellyfa711 at December 22, 2008 5:26 PM
Just don't live together. If you aren't ready for marriage then a pseudo-marriage just takes you down the wrong road.
smarty at January 24, 2009 6:59 AM
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