Bunny Can't Buy You Love
I'm 23, my boyfriend's 28, and we've been together for four years. When we met, I had low self-esteem and didn't realize there was more to a relationship than straining for his approval. I've come a long way and have grown unhappy with our relationship. There's no romance, we barely have sex, he's totally lazy when we do, and he'll never make out with me, despite my telling him it's important to me and really turns me on. While I make an effort to dress sexy, be good-humored, leave him alone, take him out, leave him cute notes, and play coy, he's let himself go (sitting around packing on the chub). Last night in bed, his big paunch was pressing into me so hard, I couldn't breathe. Overwhelmed with resentment, I blurted out, "Jeez, you need a girdle!" I felt bad, but realized I also want to make him feel bad for not listening, not being affectionate, and for making me waste some of my young hot years with him. When I try to get him to stop taking me for granted, he just gets angry. I'm on the brink of leaving, but I truly love him, we've got pets together (two bunnies), and I'd miss his family. Also, he'd be devastated.
--Exasperated
Of all the ridiculous reasons to stay in a bad relationship, at least you picked a cute one. You're actually going to stick around for increasingly occasional bad sex and near smotherings by a boyfriend who refuses to kiss you or pay attention to you...because Flopsy and Mopsy can't suffer the effects of a broken home?
Couldn't there maybe be a helpful accident, where they both mysteriously trip and fall in the stew pot? Or, where you come home and you're like, "Wow, that sure is one soft toilet seat cover!"? (Just kidding, everybody -- it's just been a while since I've gotten hundreds of angry letters from PETA.)
Of course, the bunnies and missing his mommy and daddy are just companion excuses to your star excuse, "I truly love him." Love is so oversold in our culture; it's supposed to be "all you need," "the answer," "forever." Just saying you have it is supposed to shut everybody up: "Sure, he beats me a little. But, I love him!" Well, okay then! As for this guy, what exactly do you love...the way he puts on his girlfriend-canceling headphones and stares deep into the television set whenever you talk about saving your relationship?
What gets you to the U-Haul place is figuring out what "I truly love him" is truly code for. Fear of being alone? Fear of change? Or maybe, "I've been campaigning for his approval for four long years, and dammit, I'm not leaving till I get it!" The ironic thing is, you'd probably have an easier time leaving if he gave it to you. And what's with trying to punish him? Okay, he's about as attentive as a potato. This isn't some nefarious secret he's been keeping from you. If there's anybody to resent here, it's the girl who keeps trying to beat a dead horse in hopes it'll get up and run like Seabiscuit. If you actually do value you, you see to it you're with people who also value you. If that newfound self-esteem stuff is merely talk, go ahead and stick around with him, but forget the slinkywear and show him the kind of skin that seems to turn him on. Your big decision: a tattoo of the TiVo remote or a cupid's arrow through a bag of Doritos?
Summarising the OP:
I'm 23 [..] I've [...] grown unhappy with our relationship [...] I'm [...] leaving.
Norman at February 18, 2009 12:33 AM
Bunnies are over-rated. She needs to kiss them good-bye, or take them with her when (not if) she goes. I wish her all the luck in the world. Another case of someone needing to grow a backbone where their wishbone is. o.O
Flynne at February 18, 2009 4:05 AM
"Another case of someone needing to grow a backbone where their wishbone is."
WOW...great line! I'm sooooo stealing that.
Robert at February 18, 2009 5:38 AM
I had to link to this article particularly because of this line: If there's anybody to resent here, it's the girl who keeps trying to beat a dead horse in hopes it'll get up and run like Seabiscuit.
Kendra at February 18, 2009 6:16 AM
Oh, where to begin without sounding too paternal...Oh, forget it. Paternal is what I do.
LW, you are 23. You have two bunnies, and four years invested in a rather lumpish boyfriend. Lumpish boyfriend isn't likely to change, and as you've said, doesn't like you trying to make him change.
You've got a lot of life ahead of you. Do you really need to spend it on him? You've got more freedom than a lot of women your age do. All you've got tying you down are two bunnies. Another few years, and two bunnies could turn into two kids, and then you'll really be in a fix. Grab Roger and Bugs, and fly the hutch.
P.S., I'll bet you a nickel your boyfriend's dad tells his buddies at the lodge, "For the life of me, I can't figure out what that girl's doing hanging around with that bum son of mine!"
old rpm daddy at February 18, 2009 6:39 AM
"I also want to make him feel bad ... for making me waste some of my young hot years with him."
MAKING her waste those years? Was she handcuffed the entire time? Heh ... and at 23, she's just getting started on her "young hot years", especially after she grows a spine and a brain.
Pirate Jo at February 18, 2009 7:11 AM
Take the bunnies and run! It will be easier for you to take care of them alone than it was taking care of them and the boyfriend. He won't change.
If possible, try not to separate the rabbits during the "divorce." If the two are bonded, they will miss their mate dearly.
Dee at February 18, 2009 7:12 AM
LW, I remember being in your position at 23. Only my low self-esteem told me to marry the loser. It wasn't love: It was attachment and an intense fear of being alone, and of wasting the time I'd already poured into the relationship, as Amy suggested in her answer to you. Thankfully, I decided to call it quits at 28, but I'd still like to go back to my 23-year-old self and kick her in the teeth.
You're young and hot. There are other men out there. Go find them. Breaking off the attachment you have will hurt like hell, but not for very long.
MonicaP at February 18, 2009 7:39 AM
I'm on the brink of leaving, but...we've got pets together (two bunnies)....
Let me get this straight. This guy is putting up with a girlfriend who nags him, insults him, won't accept him for who he is, mistakes hostility for new found self-esteem, and is only staying with him because Glenn Close hasn't dropped by to make stew.
If he doesn't get out soon, she'll marry him and make both their lives miserable for the next twenty years.
Oh well, Jerry Springer and Dr. Phil need the work.
Conan the Grammarian at February 18, 2009 9:23 AM
I wonder who actually bought the pets. And who takes care of them. Does this sound like a guy who gives two hoots about a pair of rabbits?
kishke at February 18, 2009 9:57 AM
"Take the bunnies and run!" ~Dee
That immediately got the Steve Miller Band going through my head, "Go on, take the bunnies and run."
Seriously, though, I think that if LW stays in this relationship, it would be a giant waste of her time, and she would end up resenting him "for making me waste some of my young hot years with him."
Get out, girl, while the gettin's good!
Sandy at February 18, 2009 10:03 AM
heh, ConanTG there are so many ways to look at such situations, no?
So LW [and what does LW mean anyway?] you are learning at a young age what many older people know... relating with someone can go into a downward sprial. You stop liking each other, you stop being nice to each other, etc., etc. One or the other or both can let themselves go, and so forth.
Interestingly you have the power to change that for both of you. The ill health of what you are doing together is apparent. Love can be strong, sure, but you both have to be interested. In each other. He isn't iterested as you expected, so you have to go find someone who is. This will also have the effect of waking his hiney up to the fact that he has things he needs to do as well. It doesn't help him that you allow him to stay this way, any more than it helps you.
So, there are many ways to look at this, or at least 3. yours, his, and the truth. You aren't getting what you want or need from him. He may or may not be getting what he needs from you. Like all people both of you need to also search inside. You have enabled each other for so long that you can't see it, but it is there.
Pain in this is inevitable, for all involved. That doesn't make it less worthwhile to make a change. Imagine how the pain will be in a year or more. Imagine how bad it would be if you had a kid. You have the whole life ahead, and so does he.
SwissArmyD at February 18, 2009 10:22 AM
He isn't iterested as you expected
Exactly. He won't be devastated. This may hurt, but he doesn't seem all that interested in you. Maybe he likes the comfort of having a girlfriend around, but that's not the same as loving you.
MonicaP at February 18, 2009 10:28 AM
Let's all say it together! Follow the bouncing ball:
He's. Just. Not. That. Into. You.
Cousin Dave at February 18, 2009 11:10 AM
"Also, he'd be devastated." Um no he won't be. Unless your leaving out major points about him he just plain don't give a shit. Has it been like this for 4 years, I mean all 4 years. Were there no happy times?
Now if he recently lost a job, got tossed from school etc. Ok give it some time, maybe an ultimatum to get off his ass. If it has been going on like this for 4 years with no logical explanation, why the hell are you still there? There are rough patches in almost every relationship, they are not supposed to last the whole of the relationship.
I'd also curious about what she means by "When I try to get him to stop taking me for granted, he just gets angry." How he expresses anger would give us a better view on how he views the relationship and what will be his reaction to the LW leaving.
vlad at February 18, 2009 11:58 AM
..just to clarify..
Statements communicated via the internet are not actually validated for their truthfulness. This seems to be a common misconception among people who post to internet forums.
That is, no one is actually checking to confirm that LW is HOT. In all likelihood she's not HOT, she's probably about as HOT as her boyfriend - i.e. NOT.
You'll notice that many young women are prone to describing themselves as HOT. So many in fact that an objective observer is left to wonder whether a significant proportion of young women have severe social phobias that prevent them from appearing in public. Because the apparent proportion of HOT young women is much much lower than self-reporting suggests.
That said, LW should leave the relationship, screw around until she's damaged goods, and then settle for whatever she can get. That's what most women do.
Mack at February 18, 2009 12:29 PM
"That said, LW should leave the relationship, screw around until she's damaged goods, and then settle for whatever she can get. That's what most women do."
Tuck in your shirt, your bitterness is showing.
Only 15% of women self-report themselves as HOT. The biggest percentage (40%) only report themselves as hot. 10% report themselves as Hot, with the remaining 35% going completely over the top by calling themselves HOT!!!! Data which breaks down the percentage by number of exclamation points is unavailable at this time.
Pirate Jo at February 18, 2009 12:58 PM
Ok I'm curious. By damaged goods are we referring to pregnancy, Non curable STD or have you found that magical expiration date the all women secretly have tattooed on their ass?
vlad at February 18, 2009 1:01 PM
"I'm on the brink of leaving, but I truly love him..."
My 4.5 year relationship just ended. We both still love each other, and it HURTS like hell, not gonna lie. And I miss his family too! My situation is very different from the LW's, but we essentially decided that the comfort of our relationship was causing us to compromise on and put off what we really wanted to do/where we really want to live. We were both miserable (not with each other, but with our lives), but we were paralyzed by the high we got from having someone to come home to.
LW, don't worry. He may be devasted. You will feel guilty. But he will thrive and turn out the better for it. You'll be surprised how much he (and you!) will improve after the break up and the kick in the ass it gives you both...almost 4 months after our break-up, my ex worked his ass off to get his dream job in the city he wants to live in, allowing him to quit his awful job and leave the city he hated.
sofar at February 18, 2009 1:04 PM
My tattoo isn't a secret. It says Feb. 18, 2009...awww, shit.
MonicaP at February 18, 2009 1:25 PM
The purpose of my comment re: 'damaged goods' was to undermine the - you go girl goddess!! BS of which some of the earlier posts are reminiscent. I don't think that women have an expiration date, or any such thing. But it's been my experience that a lot of young women are lead down the primrose path regarding their desirability and future prospects. So once they get a little older they're often completely unprepared, psychologically, for the realities they're likely to face.
And perhaps I am a little bitter. I've got to deal with these women!
Mack at February 18, 2009 1:30 PM
"So once they get a little older they're often completely unprepared, psychologically, for the realities they're likely to face." Which would be. Also what do you mean by a little older, I see women scoring fine till well into their 40 at least so long as they take care of themselves. Any chick who depends solely on her youth to maintain her looks isn't someone I want to be in a long term relationship with. Looks will not always fade but youth will.
I've seen way too many "former hot chicks" in Manhattan that obviously though youth would never fade. I's written in the leather skin (constant tanning) and sloppy waist lines (no excersise and too much booze), usually mixed with spandex (shudder).
vlad at February 18, 2009 1:41 PM
Pirate Jo -- that cracked me up!
Amanda at February 18, 2009 1:57 PM
Whether or not she's HOT, she needs to realize it's not going to get any better. She's going to end up hating him if they stay together. It seems like people stay in miserable relationships simply because they have so much time invested in them... and that's stupid. If you're miserable, and you're not married, and you don't have any kids... leave. The bunnies will get over it.
ahw at February 18, 2009 2:45 PM
SwissArmyD -
(L)etter (W)riter.
P.S. Some time ago I wrote about my desire to leave my wife. My story is like MonicaP's, but I stayed for 17 years until I forced myself to see that I didn't love her enough to justify the sunk cost. Thankfully I had the stones to walk; in retrospect her choice to be with me was equally suspect (in my value space, anyway). Beats raising our kids in the kettle of hatred I was raised in.
DaveG at February 18, 2009 3:16 PM
DaveG has a good point, touching on the sunk-cost fallacy. You usually hear this discussed in the context of investments, but it applies to relationships too.
Cousin Dave at February 18, 2009 4:19 PM
"And perhaps I am a little bitter. I've got to deal with these women!"
Oh, I was just busting your chops a little. But how are you dealing with these women? Are you dating them, or are you a counselor or advice columnist?
"I's written in the leather skin (constant tanning) and sloppy waist lines (no excersise and too much booze), usually mixed with spandex (shudder)."
Manhattan? You have got to be kidding me. I thought for a second you were describing (fill in the blank with any town you hate).
Pirate Jo at February 18, 2009 4:51 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/02/bunny-cant-buy.html#comment-1634800">comment from Cousin DaveActually, I'm big on reading behavioral economics, and I've applied this to relationships many times (in e-mail to readers who want to persist in a relationship -- throwing good time after bad). For example, here I used a variation on from Dawkins and T.R. Carlyle:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2006/10/wishful-stinkin.html
Amy Alkon at February 18, 2009 4:53 PM
It's like putting quarters into a slot machine: I've already pumped $300 into this thing, I'm sure the next quarter will hit big...
MonicaP at February 18, 2009 6:01 PM
But if the biggest prize you can win is $200....
Conan the Grammarian at February 18, 2009 6:17 PM
Damn, I posted the bunny video over on the blog before I read this!
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at February 18, 2009 7:25 PM
Ah yes, the sunk costs fallacy! Basically, you're supposed to ignore sunk costs (i.e. money you've invested that you can't get back) when assessing whether a project is worthwhile (i.e. profitable from a present value POV). Good policy to follow in your life in general. It's one thing to say that there's a lot of love left and you're just running into obstacles - it's another to say, "Well, I've spent X time in this relationship, if I leave now I'll be wasting all that time!"
I'm wondering if the "I'd miss his family" thing is key. Yeah, we're all individuals who follow our own motivations, blah blah blah, but her behavior strikes me as something that indicates that she doesn't have a loving, close, supportive family of her own. If you aren't born with a great family, but can find a *great* partner with a loving, close, supportive family of his or her own that then accepts you, that's wonderful. (Certainly makes decisions about what to do for the holidays much more simple!) But finding a not-so-great partner with a loving family is a seductive trap - you get the familiarity of living in a toxic environment, but with the continuing draw of the accepting extended family (who may well think you're the best thing that's ever happened to your partner). I've seen this rather than experiencing it - I was lucky enough to have a terrific nuclear and extended family - but I can totally see how it happens.
marion at February 18, 2009 9:18 PM
Whether she's hot, or HOT, or butt ugly doesn't really matter. She's unhappy, she should leave. There's no ring and no kids, which means there's no reason to put up with subideal circumstances. She's just looking for a Reason to get her in motion. She doesn't need one. She needs to get off her butt.
momof3 at February 19, 2009 6:44 AM
Marion, you have a good point about the family.
Pirate Jo, what about the 0.2% who self-reported as "HAWT!!!1!"?
Cousin Dave at February 19, 2009 7:05 AM
The "Also, he'd be devastated" gets me most. Of course he'll be devastated! You've given him a total pass for the last few years on acting like an adult! He sits around on his ever-widening butt while you pretend that things are OK (notes, dressing up, taking him out, etc.). He'll be devastated because he won't find a deal that sweet again.
He picked you up when you were vulnerable, weak, and 19. There are men who pick women who think that they're not good enough for anyone, and then they make sure their woman knows that she doesn't deserve him. It sounds like you're starting to realize you COULD do better. So, do better!
In the words of the Amityville Horror: "GET OUT!"
The Original Kit at February 19, 2009 10:34 AM
Mack, you have said it so perfectly well that all I can do is agree...
mike at February 19, 2009 11:02 AM
Are you dating them, or are you a counselor or advice columnist?
Dating - though I might be become an advice columnist if the economy doesn't pick up.
Also what do you mean by a little older, I see women scoring fine till well into their 40 at least so long as they take care of themselves.
I was thinking early 30's. BUT I should acknowledge that I'm in the Philadelphia region. People here age in dog years once they get past their early twenties. And they typically marry by their late twenties. So the 30+ women I meet are often very different from the ones I meet in NYC, LA, of SF.
Mack at February 19, 2009 2:49 PM
I might be become an advice columnist if the economy doesn't pick up.
There couldn't be a dumber move economically. Papers are going out of business right and left and cutting content, especially cartoons and advice columns.
Amy Alkon at February 19, 2009 3:13 PM
Yeah, don't do that, Mack. I'm a newspaper editor, and we wouldn't pick you up right now if you were the second coming of Christ.
MonicaP at February 20, 2009 5:44 AM
"and for making me waste some of my young hot years with him."
Now thats just a classic line. It reeks of, "I wasted my party hardy/clubbin/paris hilton wannabe years with this fat loser!" mentality. She had low self esteem for years (join the club darlin) but now its all his fault she wasted some of her "hot years" with him. Well, at least she realizes that youth does matter in terms of snagging a mate, especially for women who want to marry and have kids.
You're 23, if you're not happy move on. I'm sure he'll get over it, if he doesn't thats his problem and maybe he'll change his ways.
Sio at February 20, 2009 11:03 AM
MonicaP,
Hmmm, Christ as an advice columnist. Now there's a mental image for ya. I think it would have to be called "WWJD?" He could trademark the bracelets.
JBar at February 20, 2009 11:34 AM
There couldn't be a dumber move economically.
Yeah, don't do that, Mack.
I'm kidding!
I've got a perfectly good job with the Obama administration. They have me assigned to Vice President Biden.
All that I have to do is follow him around, and then every fifteen minutes I wave my hands in the air and yell HE DIDN'T REALLY MEAN THAT!
Mack at February 20, 2009 3:24 PM
Dang it, now *I've* got the Steve Miller Band singing "Go on, take the bunnies & run" in MY head!
Thanks a LOT, Sandy! ;-)
Divakitty at February 20, 2009 9:22 PM
It's the common fantasy that woman have, that they can change a man, or improve him, or that he has potential, or any of the other BS that lets them live in a fantasy world. A guy is a person, either you like him the way he is, or if not, find another guy. Nobody, male or female, likes to be improved, they want to be accepted for themselves the way they are.
The economics of supply & demand apply in the dating world, so men and ladies, make sure you stay out of the sun, don't smoke, eat healthy and stay in shape. You'll always be in demand, and will be able to get laid. I just turned 50, and am 'HAWT!!'
Chrissy at February 23, 2009 12:40 PM
Grab the bunnies, apply for financial aid, and focus on something until you are great at it then you won't have self esteem problems and watch the self esteem problems and regret fade away. You are young but keep wasting four years in codependent relationships and you won't be anymore. Good Luck but maybe you don't need it as you have eight bunny feet on your side.
Sharon at February 23, 2009 9:02 PM
Right on, Pirate Jo! LW has no one to blame for wasted years except herself.
LW, pain and misery, just like love and happiness are part of being a complete human being. Of course, your BF is going to be unhappy - you'll probably be that way for awhile too. And that's okay. It really is a good thing because it builds character. Don't be afraid of it for either him, yourself or the bunnies.
The question for you is whether you're going to take responsibility for your own happiness/unhappiness. Your BF isn't the BF of your dreams and he never will be. But he's taught you an awful lot about what you want in a relationship. So, grow up a little here, learn from the experience, and get out now.
Elise at February 24, 2009 11:39 AM
You're 23 and not sexually desirable to a rounded coach potato? And the only thing stopping you are a pair of bunnies who probably get it on more then you do and a lot more enthusiastically? Hell even the rabbits are probably wondering why you're still there. Quietly pack your stuff with a couple friends while he stares at the TV and if he ever bothers to look up and ask what's up, ask your friends to step outside and tell this man the truth. You're too young to be part of an old boring married couple and he needs to find someone who can fulfill his needs just like you do. He might get angry (it seems to be the only emotion he's capable of expressing) but that's ok. Because the bunnies were the first thing you took out of the house and they're already in the car. Now BOLT
Lia at February 26, 2009 4:10 PM
Dating - though I might be become an advice columnist if the economy doesn't pick up.
Who wants to read advice by someone this bitter?
Arwen at March 2, 2009 2:15 AM
Simple, really:
DUMP THE LUMP
Arwen at March 2, 2009 2:18 AM
I absolutely love the honesty
Ashley Lynn at April 9, 2009 6:54 AM
A lot more women think they are hot, than are hot.
With the large number of obese men and women in the US, I really doubt that many of them, male or female, are that hot.
I have been active on MRA blogs/boards, and the PUA (Pick-up artists) admit they play with the 300 pounders, and tell them how gorgeous they are. I guess it works. The sad part is the 300 pounders actually believe it.
So, the person who wondered if she really is that hot, I think is asking a good question.
A reminder of marriage stats:
Number of Marriages per 1,000
Unmarried Women Age 15 and
Older, by Year, United States:
1960 73.5
1961 72.2
1962 71.2
1963 73.4
1964 74.6
1965 75.0
1966 75.6
1967 76.4
1968 79.1
1969 80.0
1970 76.5
1972 77.9
1975 66.9
1977 63.6
1980 61.4
1983 59.9
1985 56.2
1987 55.7
1990 54.5
1991 54.2
1992 53.3
1993 52.3
1995 50.8
2000 46.5
2004 39.9
One one hand, the chances of women marrying as they get older is dropping annually, even if they think they are hot.
On the other hand, it is not a really good idea to marry someone you think is not good enough for you, and this is true even if you are wrong, and don't deserve him, a not uncommon event.
irlandes at November 21, 2009 2:01 PM
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