House Swarming
Six months ago, after my boyfriend and I had been together a year, we started living together. We're in our late 20s. Shortly after I moved in, he asked if another couple, his friends, could move in with us so they'd save some money. I said yes -- on the understanding that they'd be out by early 2010. My boyfriend soon started hanging with them constantly and ignoring our relationship. I pointed out that we needed our alone-time together. He made excuses, but showed that he had no intention of making time for us. I hid my unhappiness, but finally had to sit him down and tell him what needed to change. Several days later, he said he wanted to take a break, and I should move out -- although the problem couple can afford to leave but are using him for cheap rent. He offered to help me move, and into a safe place. I told him I think our situation is fixable with a little effort and understanding.
--Hurt
When you've just moved in with your boyfriend, you should be doing unspeakable things all over the couch, not trying to get on the waiting list for a comfortable seat for Bananagrams.
Never mind that your boyfriend's slacker friends needed a cheap crash pad. Moving in with your girlfriend and immediately moving in your friends is like booking the honeymoon suite and asking, "Oh, yeah, can we get a cot for my mom?" Of course, this ended up working out perfectly for him and his friends. They're using him for cheap rent; he's using them for a cheap breakup. It's the passive-aggressive breakup, where you don't bother telling somebody their girlfriend or boyfriend services are no longer wanted; you just make them so miserable they stop dreaming of you and start dreaming of U-Haul.
Your boyfriend may have "yeah, okay, cool"-ed you on moving in together, but panicked when two toilet brushes became as one. Maybe one small step for man started looking like one giant step toward married-kind: your being the last woman he'll ever have sex with and trading in his sport package wheels for a minivan. Maybe he's "just not that into you," or maybe all he's good for is picking you up at 7 a few nights a week. Okay, fine, this is stuff a couple have to work through -- or discover they can't. But, thanks to what may have started as a misguided act of charity, he's always had an out: "Why try to resolve the conflict when I can take advantage of these conveniently located human shields?"
Oh, has he offered to help you move? How sweet. You'll be out of his life in half the time! And do go. It's possible he'll miss you and want you back. But, do you really want him? He's been hostile, unloving and unkind. His "taking a break" is probably another easy way out: "Here, have some false hope!" (Anything to keep from mopping your tears off the linoleum.) Your big concern should be how you treated you. Like many 20-something women, you were probably too accommodating, from letting these people move in to hiding your unhappiness. The answer isn't being difficult, but standing firm on what does and doesn't work for you: Yes, to entering into a more committed relationship, no to managing a very small Holiday Inn. Maybe, to living in a house that's haunted, but with more traditional "free spirits" -- the kind that fly around in bedsheets saying "Wooo!" and when they do make stuff disappear, it isn't always all your beer.
I've often said that Amy would be out of the job as an advice columnist if people realized a simple but fundamental truth: you can't make anyone do anything. With this in mind, the only control you have in the equation is "how do I deal with this?"
How do I make my husband accept the fact that I'm now a size twelve since having our children, and not a size two any more? Answer: You don't, because you can't. He likes what he likes.
How do I get to my husband to be more sensitive and caring? You can't. He is what he is.
Any changes anyone makes are changes they're willing to make and motivated out of self-interest.
And for the question that basically amounts to "how do I make my boyfriend kick the houseguests out and be willing to work on our relationship, instead of wanting to kick me out?" Again, you can't. If he wants out, you can't make him want in. Go on now, go! Walk out the door. Just turn around now, 'cause you're not welcome any more.
'Cause he's the one who tried to hurt you with good-byes. Do you think you'll crumble? Do you think you'll lay down and die? Oh, no, not you. You will survive!
Patrick at February 3, 2010 5:42 AM
You said, essentially, "them or me." He chose them.
Chin up. Move on.
Spartee at February 3, 2010 6:19 AM
LW thinks their "situation is fixable with a little effort and understanding." I'm not sure if LW realizes it, but what she is saying is, "I think I can still make him change."
And that's the critical error. As Patrick said above (before he started channeling Gloria Gaynor), he's been pretty clear about who he is.
To believe he'll somehow be different is a big mistake. LW, do you want to base a significant portion of your future on a falsehood? Leave boyfriend to his buddies. You could be spending your time better.
old rpm daddy at February 3, 2010 7:13 AM
I told him I think our situation is fixable with a little effort and understanding.
The effort to keep yourself locked in the bedroom & the understanding that you'll only speak when spoken to.
MeganNJ at February 3, 2010 7:15 AM
The LW illustrates a point I have made often, to many people: People move in together way, way too casually and too quickly. I'm not entirely against living together; I lived with my husband before we married. But we'd been together for 2 1/2 years by then, and were both clear we were on a marriage track.
When my now-husband and I had been dating for 6 months, I went through a period of about two weeks during which at least 6 or 8 people asked me "So, how long have you and BF been going out?" "Six months now." "So, you moving in together?" "Uh, no." "You getting engaged?" "No." "You breaking up?" "No. I thought we'd just keep dating."
Just like a lot of people now assume that sex happens on the third date, a whole lot of people apparently assume that six months is the time frame for a relationship to somehow advance or break up -- and this girl had waited a whole year.
It's stupid and arbitrary, but I can just see her thinking, "We've been dating a WHOLE YEAR! We're supposed to move in together now!" Why do I have the feeling the boyfriend had to be sold on the idea, perhaps with "It's stupid for us to be paying two rents when we're spending most nights together" -- you know, the financial gambit.
But moving in together just removes the mystique and the excitement-inducing tension, and makes it *vastly* more complicated to break up. It's a boneheaded move unless you're *both* very, very sure it's the right thing to do. How many people stay in a bad relationship longer than they should because they just can't face apartment hunting and sorting out the books and DVDs?
People need to stop viewing moving in together as a logical "what's next?"
Dana at February 3, 2010 7:37 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/02/house-swarming.html#comment-1692983">comment from DanaDana, you are wise.
Amy Alkon at February 3, 2010 7:44 AM
Well, it is early 2010, after all. I'm getting the feeling this girl (assuming it's a girl) has a 'strong' personality, and is with a weenieman who finds safety in numbers.
I'm guessing it was her idea to move in together. If he found the other roomies to be the problem couple I'm sure he would be using her to get them to leave, but it seems to be the other way around.
Take the hint and move on, dear.
Pricklypear at February 3, 2010 7:51 AM
Dana writes -
"But moving in together just removes the mystique and the excitement-inducing tension, and makes it *vastly* more complicated to break up. It's a boneheaded move unless you're *both* very, very sure it's the right thing to do."
. . . and even then, I'd *strongly* encourage both parties to reconsider.
Date? Sure.
Sex? Of course!
Travel together? Absolutely.
Spend years like this? Hopefully.
Live together? Not unless you are married.
railmeat at February 3, 2010 8:38 AM
Time to move out and move on, honey.
Flynne at February 3, 2010 8:39 AM
railmeat writes --
"Live together? Not unless you are married."
A friend of mine got married after dating a woman for a few years and they moved in together post-ceremony. Only after living together did he realize that, as Amy wisely put it, "all he's good for is picking you up at 7 a few nights a week."
You know what is more expensive than moving out and having to sort through and separate your stuff? A wedding shortly followed by a divorce.
Jen at February 3, 2010 9:37 AM
In a book of witty quotes (can't remember where) I remember reading something like, "The trouble with living together before you're married is that pretty soon premarital sex turns into premarital sox."
old rpm daddy at February 3, 2010 10:05 AM
Whose name is on the lease?
Conan the Grammarian at February 3, 2010 10:14 AM
""So, how long have you and BF been going out?" "Six months now." "So, you moving in together?" "Uh, no." "You getting engaged?" "No." "You breaking up?" "No. I thought we'd just keep dating.""
There are a lot of women out there in single-land who adhere to some kind of "one-year" rule, where they expect the guy they are dating to propose to them after they've been dating a year. If not, the girl feels disrespected and thinks she must break up with him and find someone else who isn't afraid of commitment. This kind of mentality is probably why you end up with such strange questions. I've heard these same kinds of questions from guys, just not as often.
I don't know why people worship such a sacred cow about taking relationships "to the next level." I think "the next level" is a giant crock. Why fix what ain't broke? I'm kind of the same way at work. The obsession with climbing corporate ladders seems out-of-date and baby-boomerish to me. I don't care if it does pay more money. I don't want to start working 70 hours a week and having people call me at home all the time. I got a LIFE, got it? A life! And all work does is pay for it. If I'm making enough money to live okay, and my job doesn't suck, I'm generally content to stay right where I am. If these tendencies tend to make people look down on me, well fuck 'em. I don't borrow trouble, and therefore I live a stress-free life.
Pirate Jo at February 3, 2010 10:49 AM
old rpm daddy: (before he started channeling Gloria Gaynor)
Doesn't she have to be dead before I can channel her? Maybe I was channeling the disco era.
Patrick at February 3, 2010 12:13 PM
As a male in my own right, I recognize the passive-agressive breakup. It's the handiest tool in the male toolbox, and the most difficult to comprehend because there's never a real reason, just a flow of inneuedo directed toward someone who actually needs and deserves an explanation with some form of meat to it. It's sad that he had to wimp out in this fashion, but move on and find someone with the nuts to face you when the tough issues arise.
James Tremblay at February 3, 2010 12:25 PM
If I'm making enough money to live okay, and my job doesn't suck, I'm generally content to stay right where I am.
But then you would have no ambition. And what would your life mean if you weren't overworked and sleep-deprived with no real benefits to show for it? In the wise words of Tommy from "3rd Rock from the Sun," what's at the top of the rope? Likewise, when you are climbing the rope of relationship ambition, what's at the top?
It actually seems as if the LW had the boyfriend suited to her needs, up until now. He was easy-going (read: passive-aggressive) and went along with her arbitrary "steps" they should be following. And she was willing to forgive him almost anything short of setting her on fire. Even now, she was willing to "work" past the mooching houseguests until boyfriend finally (sort of) stood up to her. As Spartee said above, you gave him an ultimatum and he chose. Sticking around to try to work things out will only amplify the problem. Get out and decide what you really want in a man.
I tried to put all that in the words of a Patti LaBelle song, but I couldn't make it work.
NumberSix at February 3, 2010 1:41 PM
Ah NumberSix...what letter did you read? Certainly not the one located at the top of the page.
Esmee at February 3, 2010 1:48 PM
Maybe you need a new attitude.
Conan the Grammarian at February 3, 2010 2:16 PM
Conan: Maybe you need a new attitude.
That could be. Or somehow the wires got crossed, the tables were turned. (I never knew I had such a lesson to learn.)
Patrick at February 3, 2010 3:21 PM
"But then you would have no ambition. And what would your life mean if you weren't overworked and sleep-deprived with no real benefits to show for it? In the wise words of Tommy from "3rd Rock from the Sun," what's at the top of the rope?"
My ambition is to be busy at work all day in a job that doesn't suck, with a boss that doesn't suck, and then to go home and get back to my life afterwards. Maybe this is a Generation X thing. I recently had a job that was stressful and left me sleep-deprived and miserable, although it paid pretty well. I used all the extra money during that time to pay down my mortgage, which is now less than what a lot of people spend on a car.
Now I have a lower-paying job, but it still gets the bills paid on time, and I am actually enjoying my life again. I don't want to buy a McMansion or a Lexus, and I don't spend much money on extras. I am a good cook and would rather fix a nice meal at home than go sit in a restaurant where I might have to deal with lousy service and sit next to someone's screeching brats. I buy new clothes when I need them, and never at the pricey places. I will never spend more than $5K or $6K on a car. I just don't care about those things. I care about being able to ride my bike to steak night on Wednesday nights with my friends, and have my weekends free to do what I like, whether that is going on a long ride or staying home to play with my dog. I was into simple living before it was cool.
Those people at the top can say they are C-something-O at a company and make enough money to buy a bunch of stuff I don't even want in the first place, but no thanks. I know what my priorities are. Similarly, in relationships, I am happy in the one I'm in with the way things are, and don't need to justify to anyone why we're not moving in together or getting married.
Pirate Jo at February 3, 2010 3:40 PM
Pirate Jo, I am so sorry if I offended you. I was trying (obviously not hard enough) to mock the people who say things like that when I responded to your comment. I agree with you 100%. I think a lot of the problems in relationships come from taking "the next logical step," even if it isn't what you really want. And there have been studies (can't cite them at the moment, but I have them written down somewhere in old class notes) that say that all the money you need to be happy is whatever the subsistence level is. There is no discernible difference in the happiness of people who have just enough and people who have way too much money.
Esmee, if you are referring to the first part, I was responding to a comment from Pirate Jo, which is why I quoted it at the top of my comment. If you were referring to the last part of my comment, then, what problem do you have with my analysis? Spartee already commented that the LW had essentially given her boyfriend an ultimatum (our mooching houseguests or me) and he said he would help her pack her things. The boyfriend , as Amy and others on this thread have also noted, seems to be the kind of guy to go along with what his girlfriend wants to avoid immediate conflict. He sort of stands up to her and would rather have his friends living with him than her, and she still wonders if she can make it work. The relationship pit bull wants her chew toy back.
She works hard for the money?...nope, still don't have it.
NumberSix at February 3, 2010 7:37 PM
Okay, even I realize that it was Donna Summer. I'm really bad at this. Patrick, if only you'd started with AC/DC.
NumberSix at February 3, 2010 8:59 PM
NumberSix: Okay, even I realize that it was Donna Summer. I'm really bad at this. Patrick, if only you'd started with AC/DC.
You like AC/DC? Well, hell's bells! What's wrong with you?
Patrick at February 4, 2010 12:28 AM
You didn't offend me, NumberSix - I understood your comments in the spirit they were intended.
Pirate Jo at February 4, 2010 4:22 AM
AC/DC is perfect! From the guys point of view anyway.
You got a lady and you want her gone, but you ain't got the guts...
Pricklypear at February 4, 2010 7:17 AM
Okay, good, Pirate Jo. I worry sometimes that tone doesn't work so well in text form. Obviously that translates to my reading of the text, too!
Well, hell's bells! What's wrong with you?
I don't know, Patrick, I guess I just shoot to thrill. And also I play to kill.
You got a lady and you want her gone, but you ain't got the guts...
My dirty deeds don't come dirt cheap, though.
NumberSix at February 4, 2010 9:17 AM
"As a male in my own right, I recognize the passive-agressive breakup. It's the handiest tool in the male toolbox ... he had to wimp out ... find someone with the nuts ..."
We get it, you're male, but I have news for you: The passive-aggressive breakup is just as much a female thing and isn't gender-specific at all, so tone down the anti-male sucking-up-to-females posturing a bit there, thanks.
Lobster at February 4, 2010 10:02 AM
This LW is either 1) not that smart 2) willfully ignorant 3) grew up in Amish country and simply isn't used to passive aggressive break-up techniques.
This guy is trying his hardest to shout I. DON'T. LIKE. YOU. NOW LEAVE! without actually having to say it. Why stay with someone who seems repulsed by your very presence?
Gretchen at February 4, 2010 11:55 AM
Pirate Jo said: "I don't know why people worship such a sacred cow about taking relationships "to the next level." I think "the next level" is a giant crock. Why fix what ain't broke?"
I think that's great if that's what you're into, but I don't think it's wrong to want to take that next logical step, either. Some men and women do want to be married, have kids while they still can, etc.
I think that the issue is more about not forcing it when it's not with the right person, and with the other person not just going along to get along when it comes to major life decisions.
Lyssa at February 4, 2010 2:33 PM
Ain't if funny - that guys almost 100% say they can't take a hint and women should say straight out what they want, BUT men when it comes to breaking up - or even saying they'll call - beat around the bush, lie, whatever - anything except say it straight. Instead, men choose to be so awful as to force the little woman to make the decision to move on because men don't have the guts to be straight about it. That said, this gal needs to move on - he's not that into you, you are already an embarrassment to yourself. It's that obvious!
ddm at February 7, 2010 9:02 AM
"Instead, men choose to be so awful as to force the little woman to make the decision to move on because men don't have the guts to be straight about it."
Yeah, unlike women who never do that /sarcasm
Lobster at February 8, 2010 4:05 AM
Level 1: Dating
Level 2: Committed Relationship
Level 3: Living Together
Level 4: Marriage
Level 5: Separation
Level 6: Divorce
Start over again at Level 1, and repeat.
Chrissy at February 11, 2010 12:37 PM
Amy, spot on as usual. I don't see how someone can continue in that sort of situation. Get away!
Patrick,
I've often said that Amy would be out of the job as an advice columnist if people realized a simple but fundamental truth: you can't make anyone do anything. With this in mind, the only control you have in the equation is "how do I deal with this?"
It is amazing how many people can't figure this out.
Suki at February 12, 2010 2:58 AM
There are soooooo many problems with this:
1. He asked if another couple, his friends, could move in with us so they'd save some money.
This is a HUGE sign that these people are not fiscally responsible. You should have found out why they had to move in with you BEFORE you let them move in.
2. My boyfriend soon started hanging with them constantly and ignoring our relationship.
Your problem could have ended here if you'd simply left. Someone who doesn't give a shit about their relationship and blows off his girlfriend to hang with his roommates does not deserve to date.
3. He made excuses, but showed that he had no intention of making time for us.
Um, if my Fiancee reached this level of rudeness, he'd be out the door faster than you could blink.
4.I hid my unhappiness, but finally had to sit him down and tell him what needed to change.
You had to TELL him he was being an ass?
5. Several days later, he said he wanted to take a break, and I should move out -- although the problem couple can afford to leave but are using him for cheap rent.
Okay, so now he wants to break, but the "problem couple" who are using him can stay? This should be a sign that he's trash and you should be gone by now.
6. I told him I think our situation is fixable with a little effort and understanding.
Honey, I have no idea why you want to fix this guy, but if you can afford to stay with a guy who treats you like crap, you're too desperate to date.
panikkrazy at April 29, 2010 11:32 AM
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