He is already gone. He is just waiting for her to pull the trigger. What a coward. My guess is, is that he will continue to flaunt this "friendship" in the LW's face until she can not deny the truth any longer.

If he isn't sleeping with her, he will be soon. Or maybe he'll keep it an emotional affair, which is just as bad as a sexual one. In fact, if he keeps it an emotional affair, he may be able to convince himself that he's not really cheating.

Obviously this guy's behavior isn't okay, but it hardly seems like marriage-ending material to me. It doesn't sound like he is looking to leave his marriage, or even necessarily have an affair. He's probably just bored and liking the attention from someone new and different. I think a better strategy for LW would be to make an effort to bring excitement back into her marriage: get a makeover, go on dates, find a new activity to do together. I'm sure there's more that she can do on her end to hold onto the marriage than just issue an ultimatum or walk.

I have to disagree with you Shannon. He woke her up to deliver the news of his new "text buddy" and has already started the process of gas lighting her. "Seriously hon... All the guys at work spend ALL day texting women who are not their wives... Totally normal"....NOT! Amy is right, all the LW can do is handle her reaction. She has to decide if she wants to live like this or not bc he is not planning on changing.

I think all people who "spend all day texting," if they're over 15, should have their fingers broken. Especially if they're doing it on the freeway while they should be driving.

He is getting some strange all right. The only thing that will make a guy act this stupid is getting a piece of ass behind his wife's back. She needs to dump his ass and take his money.

Yeah, it's totally platonic! r i g h t...

Sex isn't straightforward, or else we'd all be calling the hottest person we could think of and asking them if they'd like to enjoy an evening of coitus. If they haven't already sexed each other up in the car after class it's only a matter of time. The fact that he woke the LW to lie to her and make her suspicious speaks to the level of confusion/paranoia going on his own mind about the situation. I'd leave him for being so out of touch with his own identity/needs and not being able to voice those needs.

This guy reminds me of my cousin, who, when she was little, would come out of her bedroom to tell her parents she wasn't doing anything wrong.

It's interesting to think about the impact texting has had on affairs. It seems to me that it's made the line blurrier for some people. I mean, this man is communicating with another woman last thing before he goes to bed. He probably would think that actually calling her on the phone would be crossing a line, but that texting's okay. Like those teenagers who text at the dinner table think it's okay because they're not actually talking on the phone. It's so convenient and doesn't actually involve real, live conversation, so I think it's not considered overt cheating by some. But talking to someone all day and last thing at night, while whittling down the conversations with one's wife, is suspect no matter what the medium. Even if it were a platonic friend (everyone who believes that, stand on your head), there's something wrong with that much attention focused on someone else.

I'm with Shannon in that I also think this guy wants attention. But I think he wants it from his wife, too. Otherwise there's no reason to wake her up to tell her he's made very clear to the woman in his class that he's taken. Like a woman whose boyfriend is ignoring her. She flirts a little with another guy to make him pay more attention to her. I'd like to know if the LW has possibly been ignoring her husband at all, or taking him for granted, or at the very least if he's just perceiving things that way.

or perhaps it could be as simple as "I was just tucking her in!" That's the line I got after 19 years. Please! I don't buy the constant texting for a second. Texting can be extremely personal and provocative when desire is involved.

My brother once told me he was very attracted to a woman he worked with and thought it would be best to tell his wife, to be honest with her. He made no effort to have an affair with this woman although the feeling was mutual. There was no texting at that time (us older folks). I told him he was mad. Shit like this happens all time...normal and shut up. He did. He forgot about her. A simple crush. You act on it or you don't.

Amy, your advice on the 5 yr. renewal on the marriage "contract" is good advice, however, I question why people bother to legally bind themselves in the first place. While I have relatives who just celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary, the mindset of their generation is GONE. Society back then didn't have the technology to do the kind of window shopping available to us today.

Before texting, I had a boyfriend who did something similar. I say similar because it went something like this: he told me a woman he worked with was coming on to him, had the hots for him and as he told me, he seemed to be asking ME to do something about it. I get the feeling the LW's husband is doing something similar: "here's this woman doing this, and now involved and, btw, can you please save me?"

I my case, I knew the other woman. So, I went to see her, told her he was all hers and told my boyfriend the same. (And I get that a boyfriend is not the same as a husband, so this may not work for the LW). It took that deceptive and competitive spark out of their situation pretty quickly.

Another social worker friend of mine, who I believe to be very wise, did something similar. She moved herself out of the marital bedroom, asked her husband if he minded having an open relationship, dolled herself up on a regular basis and made it clear to other men that she was available. I have to add that she did it as nicely and gently as she could and it drove her husband crazy. She was very brave to do this, and it was a gamble, but it worked. I also think it gave her a different perspective of their relationship, which seemed to make her a stronger person. She seemed more sure of herself and less afraid of losing him after this.

I don't know if these solutions are workable here, but for what it's worth, here they are.

This guy actually sounds pretty inept at cheating. I can believe he is only involved in an emotional relationship with some coworker who is enjoying his attention, without giving him any action. Women do that sort of thing, from what I have seen.

That said, she needs to put on her stern shoes and tell this guy (1) after your bullshit declaration, I looked at your phone (NO APOLOGY FOR THAT, by the way); (2) this shit needs to stop, right now, or you pack your shit and GTFO; (3) I am your wife and lover, not that woman, don't you dare ever get yourself emotionally wound up with someone else like this in the future or it will be simply GTFO.

Then cross your arms, stare hard and wait for the stammering stupidity about how you are being unreasonable. Wave it off, and tell him again, you are dead serious and he needs to make a decision: you or her.

If you do not have kids, send him packing if he doesn't thereafter pledge eternal devotion and grovel his sincere apology at being so damn stupid and disloyal as to get all wound up like this. People in marriages need to remember who their spouse is: the one person who doesn't ever get bullshitted or treated like a chump.

If you have kids, and he doesn't come around immediately to understand what a boob he is being, well, time to do all that therapy crap to get him to understand he is being a boob and needs to get it together.

The LW's husband woke her up one morning to inform [her] that he told this woman in the class he's taking that he's happily married and isn't looking to cross any lines.

Uh HUH. If my BF did that to me, I'd be all, "yeah, sure", and make sure that he knew there were guys texting me that I wouldn't "cross any lines" with, too.

What a tool.

There's another, new evolutionary psych book out there arguing that monogamy and lifelong marriage are not what we're hardwired for. I haven't read it, but heard it reviewed by Dan Savage; he loved it. It's called Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality.

"When you aren't guilty, you don't wake your wife to confess your guiltlessness" Well that depends on what you mean by guiltless. Did he do anything wrong, no not really. He however dose feel guilty for it and is trying to convince himself as much as her.

Emotional affair is house wife horse shit to punish men for not wanting to talk to the sour house fraue. He's not talking to her because she's not fun to talk to. Unless you fuck/hook up physically it's not an affair. Just like internet porn is not an affair and neither is web pron or visiting strip clubs.

There is some benefit to heeding the quaint religious advice about "avoiding temptation." Talking with someone in class is not a problem. Taking it outside of class, while excluding his spouse could lead to one. It would have been prudent not to go there.

We all draw our own lines. I remember the words "foresaking all others" from somewhere, and I keep my promises. Hope and change are not formula for happiness. Maybe I'm a slow user, but I'm not done with the first and only Mrs D yet.

Previous experience, sufficient to overcome any statistical sampling error, says I could only do worse.

I am so glad I don't have to put up with this bullshit.

If my boyfriend pulled something like that, I'd just dump him, grieve, and move on. Nobody has to sell a house or split assets.

Amazing that after 18 (EIGHTEEN!) years of marriage, her husband feels free to treat his wife like dirt. Maybe this isn't the first time. Something tells me they didn't exactly have a great relationship to begin with. But if you don't get married, you save yourself the hassle of finding yourself tied to a douchenozzle like this guy after that long.

Sometimes it's nice to be a semi-luddite. No texting, tweeting, facebook, not even a cellphone. So I have to ask--is there no way to clear that shit out of your phone, like clearing out your personal history stuff on the intergoogle? (Thanks, Craig!)

Or is the average person too full of their own sense of invulnerability to clear it?

In this case, he obviously wanted her to know.

"the mindset of their generation is GONE. Society back then didn't have the technology to do the kind of window shopping available to us today."

HAHAHAHAHA! Jan,we didn't need the technology in order to window shop, but I think our attention spans might have been a little longer, even with all the pot and acid.

Emotional affair is house wife horse shit to punish men for not wanting to talk to the sour house fraue. He's not talking to her because she's not fun to talk to. Unless you fuck/hook up physically it's not an affair. Just like internet porn is not an affair and neither is web pron or visiting strip clubs

Vlad, that's bullshit. If you're happy to go out to things you wouldn't do with your partner (festivals, exhibitions, movies, whatever) it's an affair. Just one that doesn't involve sex - but which it probably would if it were up to the guy. In other words, the wife/gf can tell he wants to even if it isn't happening yet. Because you're available for one but not the other.

It's interesting to think about the impact texting has had on affairs. It seems to me that it's made the line blurrier for some people.

NumberSix has it right (and we really have to stop agreeing N6 or people will talk!). Vlad, would you call up someone you knew at work every night before bed? By your definition that wouldn't be cheating. It would be pretty weird though.

I've been there my friend, and have regretted the effect on my partner at the time ever since. As far as she was concerned, I cheated on her even if there was never any sex, or even a kiss. And no she wasn't sour or unavailable.

I'll defend the strip club thing though, nothing wrong with that as long as there is no emotional attachment. Although I've made that mistake too...

MarkD--my pastor says something similar to the point you're making. He says you make the commitment in advance because the time will come when you will face a hard decision. By having committed to another person IN ADVANCE, you've decided the outcome before you've even faced it.

I think that's a refreshing approach. It acknowledges that times come in your life where there are "other options", but when you've made a commitment to someone, you've decided in advance what your response will be. It's not unrealistic, it doesn't pretend that there won't be opportunities.

It's not unrealistic, it doesn't pretend that there won't be opportunities.

But it does go against the prevailing desire to exercise those opportunities without remorse or consequence.

I came home from Afghanistan to a similar situation. My now ex-wife was constantly texting with a guy she'd "befriended" while I was away. After a few months of marriage counseling, where she promised every week to break things off with the guy, she ended up leaving me and moving right in with him.

Mike, thank you for your service. I am so sorry that it cost you your relationship. Stay positive and there will be someone else for you.

There is absolutely such a thing as an emotional affair, Vlad. I heard that when cheated on, a man will ask, "did you sleep with him?" while a woman will ask, "do you love her?" That's the difference between a physical and emotional affair. They often go together, but either way they're bad. And a man communicating and connecting with a woman to this extent is definitely starting to have feelings and is building a relationship. He's already crossed a line even if they never have sex. (But in most cases they will eventually have sex -- he's obviously already tempted and guilty which is why he felt the need to confess to his wife.)

Amy is correct, LW has to stand up and say this behavior is unacceptable and has to nip this in the bud before her husband falls for this other woman. It's possible that the husband is starved for attention from his wife and is behaving badly because of it (this could be why he confessed -- he wants her to pay attention), so if LW brings this to a head, they can maybe fix the relationship.

"Emotional affair is house wife horse shit to punish men for not wanting to talk to the sour house fraue. He's not talking to her because she's not fun to talk to. Unless you fuck/hook up physically it's not an affair."

I agree with this. However, even if one is not fucking the 'new friend', there is a point at which one is clearly having more of the (non-fucking parts of) a relationship with someone other than your own spouse/SO (and probably he *wants* to fuck this new interest), and I think one should at least 'own up to that' --- it's very disrespectful to the person you claim to be with to basically start ignoring them and flaunting your new 'awfully close friendship' right in front of them, but still keeping that person 'on the line' because you still want them around. Wanting to have a relationship with someone else but 'deciding' to stick with the person you're with is not noble ('gee honey, I don't really want *you*, but I'll stick around, see how great I am doing the "right thing"' - I'm sure the words any wife of 18 years wishes to hear), and it's even worse to then simultaneously try keep both around, and thus keep flaunting in front of her face every day 'look there's someone that makes my eyes light up more than you do, I'm actually bored of you, but I'm so noble I'm sticking around, even though I think so little of you that I think it's OK to flaunt this other person in front of you and even demand that I want to keep her around'. It's nice to have your cake and eat it too. If you're bored of someone, admit it and let them go, don't be an ass and hurt them by creating lame justifications or rationalisations (or worse, turn it around and say he 'can't have any friends', making her look like the bad one -- although perhaps she is, but the tone of the letter doesn't indicate that to me, in fact she sounds like she lets people walk all over her, which is probably why he thinks he can walk all over her like this).

If you find you like someone else but are in a marriage, then you must be man enough to recognize that and admit that, and then either break it off with the new fling, or the spouse, or try negotiate an open marriage.

If she is boring or has let herself go a bit etc., well she should work on that *anyway*, as a separate thing --- whether it's to resuscitate her ailing marriage, or find someone else new. Might not be what she had in mind when she took the wedding vows, but you have to play the hand you're dealt, that's all you really can do in life. It doesn't sound like the marriage is necessarily unfixable, but it's sure going to need some work -- and commitment to make it work and bring some spark back into it, from both sides.

A middle aged man does not spend his days texting his buddy let alone every night before bed.

What the hell is an "emotional affair???"

As near as I can tell, and "emotional affair" consists of a man being happy without his wife's permission.

Emotional affair is house wife horse shit to punish men for not wanting to talk to the sour house fraue.

It's also the reason I got a divorce. An emotional affair is what happens when your spouse is off courting other people. It also involves denying a spouse the same level of emotional intimacy -- and in my case, physical intimacy, as well. Emotional affairs are easy. You get to see the best, most affectionate part of a person without the hard part of living with someone.

As near as I can tell, and "emotional affair" consists of a man being happy without his wife's permission.

If his "being happy" involves courting other women, then you're right: Few wives would give their permission.

I wonder how this sort of thing would fly if it were a woman doing it. "No, sweetie, really, I just love sending him 40 texts a day and making sure he's comfortably in bed at night. I do that with all my friends."

"If you're happy to go out to things you wouldn't do with your partner (festivals, exhibitions, movies, whatever) it's an affair." No it really isn't. If it's stuff that the other person actually wants to do, then while not an affair it's not appropriate either. If you have a female friend (in this case a lesbian) who loves paintball and guns and the girlfriend wants nothing to do with it how is it an "emotional" affair. It's not shit the other person has any interest in.

He's pushing the line of decency quite a bit but not an affair. Referring to his behavior as not nice would be an understatement, yes he's being a dick but not having an affair.

As far as me talking to a coworker late night not gone happen, don't want even a hint of impropriety too dangerous being higher level. If that person turns on me I get skinned given my position.

"I wonder how this sort of thing would fly if it were a woman doing it." Still be sleazy, still wouldn't be an affair. Affair means tab A into slot B otherwise close friends regardless of gender and orientation would constitute affairs. Both genders tell their friends shit they would never tell the spouse.

Would it be an emotional affair if it was with his best friend, both straight both guys. There is NO chance for extra marital sex but he is ignoring his wife. He comes home to tired to spend time with her just passes out. It's rude, nasty and a legit reason to file for divorce. Still not an affair.

Affair means tab A into slot B otherwise close friends regardless of gender and orientation would constitute affairs.

The definition of affair is "an intense amorous relationship, usually of short duration." There's nothing there about genitalia.

This may be a gender-difference issue. If a woman feels as betrayed as if HAS stuck tab into slot b, does it matter that no bodily fluids were exchanged? Do couples really want to get hung up on word definition, or would they rather just fast forward straight to the divorce?

Women who value emotional fidelity want to feel like the most important women in their husbands' lives. I suspect the same is true for men -- at least the one I married. Part of staying married is not walking that line at all.

Whether people want to admit it or not, there will always be a heightened level of awareness about friendships between heterosexual men and women. Intense friendships between people who might want to fuck someday will never be viewed the same as those between people who won't ever go there.

To add: This guy may not be having an emotional affair. He may just be insensitive and attention-seeking. I got sidetracked by the "WTF is an emotional affair?" stuff.

"Women who value emotional fidelity want to feel like the most important women in their husbands' lives." Doesn't mean that his action becomes an affair because she values emotional fidelity.

"Whether people want to admit it or not, there will always be a heightened level of awareness about friendships between heterosexual men and women." Yes but still not an affair.

You get to see the best, most affectionate part of a person without the hard part of living with someone.

MonicaP, I couldn't sum up better what I did to my ex. She can, at length. I want to apologise for the rest of my life for it, and I'm sorry to hear the same happened to you.

Would it be an emotional affair if it was with his best friend, both straight both guys.

Strawman, vlad. Of course not. Would just be, as you say, a good reason to leave someone for being an insensitive jerk. But the betrayal part isn't there in that case, and that does make a difference.

"Women who value emotional fidelity want to feel like the most important women in their husbands' lives." Doesn't mean that his action becomes an affair because she values emotional fidelity.

You'd make a good lawyer vlad. But try it and see how your wife feels. Better still, as MonicaP suggested, how would you feel if your wife or partner grabbed her phone every night to text her friend right before lights-out? (Hey thanks to new advances in cell phone technology, she could still text him with your dick in her mouth - would you think that was cheating?)

People can feel betrayed through lack of emotional intimacy whether there's sex involved or not. Ok, sometimes people are unreasonable, but in general you don't get to have a legal hearing on what is or isn't an affair. Relationships ain't a courtroom.

Doesn't mean that his action becomes an affair because she values emotional fidelity.

It also doesn't mean that it ISN'T an affair just because a guy says it isn't.

Yes but still not an affair.

So what is an affair? I'm genuinely confused. Because you said it's about sex, but the dictionary says it's not. Which leads me to believe that the functional definition is nebulous, and couples should be on the same page about it, because ultimately, one person saying "It's an affair!" and the other person saying "No it's not!" and the first person saying "Yes it is!" isn't helpful.

As for men and women being friends, there are ways to do this that don't involve getting accusations of cheating thrown at you. Texting at all hours and waking up your partner to tell her that you are not having an affair is not the best approach.

As for men and women being friends, there are ways to do this that don't involve getting accusations of cheating thrown at you.

Funny you should say that MonicaP. Most of my friends are female, and my ex was fine with them (their partners have no problem either). It was the one where she could tell it was different that was the issue. And this seems to be the point that vlad doesn't get.

"And this seems to be the point that vlad doesn't get." Oh I get the point but I just don't agree with it.

If there is no possibility of sex (amorous relations) we agree that it's not an affair. So if he has no intention of screwing here he's still guilty of an emotional affair because it makes the wife uncomfortable. There is no betrayal because he isn't going to screw her. So his intentions are completely meaningless just her emotions define an emotional affair? This makes sense how?

"Strawman, vlad. Of course not." No a blatant attempt at getting a handle on you definition of affair. Sex has to be at least a possibility for it to be an affair in your eyes. That's the question I was trying to answer.

vlad - to YOU, it may have to involve sex in order to be an affair. However, you need to acknowledge that just because you define it that way does not mean everyone does. Does that mean it would be okay for your wife (or hypothetical wife, if you're not married) to make out with other guys, as long as they don't have sex?

I think the definition of an affair can only be decided by two people: the people who are involved and have a committed relationship. They are the only ones who can decide on what is okay and what is not okay in their relationship. The trick is to find a partner who agrees with you on those values. Whether or not your definition applies to them is completely irrelevant (unless you're talking about your own relationships).

"Funny you should say that MonicaP. Most of my friends are female, and my ex was fine with them (their partners have no problem either). It was the one where she could tell it was different that was the issue. And this seems to be the point that vlad doesn't get."

Thank you for speaking from the man's side on this, LTW. You're right that the spouse understands when it's different. The level of intensity is much higher than it is in normal male/female friendships.

For some reason, vlad thinks that emotional affairs can't become physical affairs, like there's a limit on them. Not true. They are often just what comes before the actual affair, when both people are trying to justify hanging out together, sharing intimacies, texts and late-night calls. A spouse would be a fool to treat an emotional affair as anything less than a serious threat to the relationship.

So what is an affair? I'm genuinely confused. Because you said it's about sex, but the dictionary says it's not.

Hm... my first 2 web dictionary searches for "affair" came up with:

1. A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other.

2. A usually secretive or illicit sexual relationship.

However, I do think emotional affairs (or whatever syntax you want to use to define them) exist and are corrosive to relationships. When someone else begins to mean more to you than your partner or is pulling big chunks of your time and attention away from the primary relationship it's never a good thing.

Personally, I would rather have my partner confess to a physical affair than an emotional one. In other words: "I was horny and fucked the pool boy" would go over better than "I think I love someone else".

"For some reason, vlad thinks that emotional affairs can't become physical affairs, like there's a limit on them. Not true. They are often just what comes before the actual affair, when both people are trying to justify hanging out together, sharing intimacies, texts and late-night calls. A spouse would be a fool to treat an emotional affair as anything less than a serious threat to the relationship."

Agreed 100%. That was my exact and actual experience with my ex-wife's male "friend." The incessant texting (and the sneaking late-night phone calls, the after-work drinks, etc.) was a manifestation of the emotional affair, of course, but when she split, she moved right into his apartment. I am certainly not stupid enough to think that their relationship was platonic up until the day she left me.

I have this "friend" who has acted a lot like the LW's husband. He didn't want to admit it at the time, but it was certainly an affair. He dug the attention and really was trying to decide to go all in or stay put. He stayed home, not because he had the best sense, but because the other woman shut it down because of her good sense. Looking back, he was truly deceiving himself.

I agree with Monica, most couples should have an understanding and not all couples will draw the line ar the same place, but I think most will would call this case an affair.

I like Amy's advice. A tough stace by LW might just break through the bullshit shield the husband has surrounded himself with.

Spartee, I would handle it exactly as you said, but I would probably visit a lawyer first with all of the cell phone and text message records in hand!

To all those who say an affair has to have a physical/sexual aspect, it's not true. There are emotional affairs and sexual affairs. Men prioritize sex and physical acts over emotions, so many don't understand how damaging an emotional affair can be. Lack of understanding does not mean lack of existence. Emotional affairs are real, pure and simple.

In more conservative times, men and women engaged in emotional relationships long before they got physical with each other. Believe it or not, these types of relationships still exist today. Though the percentage of people who wait until marriage for sex is small, there IS still a percentage that does. These people build romantic, intentional relationships primarily based on emotional attachments.

Men and women both know the difference between an opposite-gender friend they simply like and one they have deeper feelings for. If you are in a committed relationship with someone, and you are spending protracted periods of time (in person, via media, WHATEVER) with someone else where there is a mutual attraction and deep feelings, you are close to crossing the line. If you are mutually sharing thoughts and feelings you are unwilling to share with your partner, you are having an emotional affair. Excuses, justifications, and degrading "housewife" comments aside (and by "housewife", I take it you mean "women", because I am not a housewife, and I recognize emotional affairs for what they are), an emotional affair is just as damaging as a physical one, and almost always precedes it.

Mike in real life, thank you for your service!!! I'm sorry about your wife. I know how hard it is waiting on this side for someone but obviously she dealt with it by latching onto someone else.
I loved what ie said. I've never been a jealous person and when in a relationship I refuse to even deal with that stupidness. If I suspect something I don't snoop. I confront with my thoughts and see the reaction I get. If someone was sloppy(some were) I told the woman she could have him and showed him the door. I didn't do it with the hopes of gettiing him back or salvaging a relationship. I did it because someone who is bored or has doubts and didn't come to me first is not someone who deals with problems well and not someone worthy of being with me.

I've always found jealousy quite difficult to deal with--it's such a desperate place to be--and so that's why I don't try to compete with another woman for the attention of a man.

I also feel that the person with the two partners--in other words, the one creating the drama--is probably really getting off on it and I'd rather not enable them. I've always been very fond of that French saying "careful what you wish for" (or what you "pray" for). I figure if someone is two-timing me, then what they really want is some space, since intimacy requires closeness. So I find that giving them that space is perfect.

There are times when giving someone exactly what they want can be the thing that frustrates them the most. And I don't mind frustrating someone who's jerking me around!

Vlad wrote: Both genders tell their friends shit they would never tell the spouse.
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Vlad, I hope you will one day meet someone who disproves your cynical view of marriage. If you believe that statement and you are married then you clearly married the wrong person.

One of the very best things about marriage is that you can talk with your spouse about everything you cannot talk about with anyone else.

Frankly from what I understand of what people are saying here about an "Emotional Affair", it can be defined as:

A loving emotional attachment to a person other than your committed spouse, which results in the deprivation of love and support towards that spouse.

Notice here I did not include any mention of time. The fact is that nobody can spend 24/7 with each other, we all have outside interests that our spouses have no interest in. Enjoying those with other people is not a bad thing. But doing so to the point of neglect is. The problem with mentioning time is that it is highly subjective. To give a fictional example, there was a comedy awhile back called, "I love you man" about a man whose only focus was ever on relationships, he had no close male friends. He had outside activities that involved other men and not his (at the time) girlfriend, but it never took away from their relationship.

Then he proposes, and circumstances make him realize he's really got no close friends. So he sets about making them, eventually he becomes very close friends with another guy, and begins to spend all his time with him, to the eventual neglect of his bride to be. No there is no male on male romance involved in their friendship, but his girlfriend is grossly neglected for a fair while, until around the wedding day it is suggested some reasonable balance has been struck between relationship with spouse and relationship with friends.

Now had this male friend been a woman, I suspect some of you would have called it an "emotional affair" and certainly a sexual component is always possible between two straiaght members of the opposite sex. But what relevence would sex really have in this instance? In either case, the result is the neglect of the committed relationship in favor of outside interests with other parties?

I suppose what I'm saying here is that the term "emotional affair" SHOULD mean that there is an outside party whose company and shared activity results in the neglect of a committed relationship.

Obviously how far it needs to go is somewhat subjective. I have a friend who went on one date with a woman, and after that she started harassing him that he was spending to much time at my place. I also know couples where the man takes off every whateverday for a hobby involving other people, or where the wife takes off for an evening for her own interests, and none of them feel neglected by the other.

It comes down to the reasonable person standard, are you reasonable enough that you don't expect your partner to rely upon you to define themselves, and vice versa? Are you reasonable enough to put off a few pleasures of one kind to spend more time with the spouse when they occasionally need it, and vice versa?

If the answer is no in either case, stay single, save on divorce court.

Sad thing is though, I suspect a large part of it is as Chris Rock put it: "If she sees a smile on your face that she didn't put there, she's suspicious."

How much so, I leave for you all to decide.

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As for what is an actual affair...for fucks sake...only a woman would obfuscate this shit.

An actual affair is when a husband or wife fucks someone that is not their spouse.

If you need to be told that, don't pollute the system with your vote. Actions, not emotions, are the crux of law and justice.

only a woman would obfuscate this shit.

Only a man would decide that his definition is the only definition. See, being insulting is fun for everyone!

Actions, not emotions, are the crux of law and justice.

Also, this has nothing to do with law and justice. This has to do with relationships, which are about emotions. As someone upthread pointed out, you're not going to stand in front of a judge arguing the definition of an affair. You're just going to split your stuff and your kids and be on your way.

Many people desperately need there to be a black-and-white answer to everything, and it makes them nuts when there isn't one.

As a side note, emotions play a role in justice and law, too. We're constantly trying to figure out what drives people to do things, and that motivation plays a big role in sentencing.

"Only a man would decide that his definition is the only definition. See, being insulting is fun for everyone!"

That wasn't an insult from you MonicaP, that was a compliment! CLARITY is GOOD. By saying that, you just said that only a man would judge something by a verifiable factual action...as opposed to something invisible, unknowable, and undefinable. So basically what you've just used as an insult is that..gasp...only a man would use logic. Thanks!

An affair need have nothing to do with emotions. If I went out and nailed my nextdoor neighbor while I was married...I had an affair. Simple, straight, to the point. No confusion see.

Now your little "emotional affair" is so utterly subjective that it is impossible to define, and here is why.

Even the most cold hearted ice man...i.e. ME, has some form of emotion. Virtually every living conscious human being has feelings about other humans they know or are aware of, be those feelings positive or negative. And yes, some of those feelings will be favorable to other members of the opposite sex. Lets say I love to dance and my wife hates to. Am I engaged in an emotional affair if I cut a turn on the dance floor a few times a week with other women? What if its Salsa or Tango, which can get very physical? What if I'm friends with those women? Am I having an emotional affair because I have favorable feelings for those women and do things with them away from my wife?

Do you see how stupidly confusing the term "emotional affair" can become? Lets say my wife is a very confident, comfortable person, who has absolute faith that I would never cheat on her, and she's happy I can go out and do what I love on the dance floor. Am I engaged in an emotional affair then, even if she is fully cognizent that it is just an evening with friends, and has no insecurity about it?

Or lets flip it around. What if she were a paranoid and insecure woman that didn't like me having any female friends? What if she wanted me to stop doing what I love on those nights with other women, and I refused, am I engaged in an emotional affair then, because I am going against my wife's wishes and having fun with female friends, even though it bothers her? Even if her distrubed and upset state is baseless?

See where I'm going with this?

The term "EMOTIONAL AFFAIR" is based entirely on perception and air. It has no factual, verifiable, physical basis.

That is the big difference between my definition and yours...MY definition...gasp...actually DEFINES SOMETHING.

So if that is something only a man would do...well you're suggesting that women's suffrage was a really bad idea. ;)

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Actions, not emotions, are the crux of law and justice.~me

Also, this has nothing to do with law and justice. This has to do with relationships, which are about emotions.~you

TWO words: Divorce...court.

The law when it comes to marital relations, has no business dabbling in feelings, it is about action or inaction, responsibility or irresponsibility. Did he diddle his secretary on your birthday...or did he just have coffee with her at lunch every day without your permission.

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As a side note, emotions play a role in justice and law, too. We're constantly trying to figure out what drives people to do things, and that motivation plays a big role in sentencing.

And when that comes into play...look at what a wonderful jolly fucking mess THAT makes. Sure there are motives we accept, he was breaking into my house so I shot him in the face...free to go...I was breaking into his place to get money for drugs and he pulled a gun...20 to life. Obviously motive has a role.

But not, "I felt disenfranchised by society so I went to his place to practice wealth redistribution by swiping and pawning his t.v. set, its not fair cuz mamma didn't teach me to read and my daddy's in jail." I'd still give 5-10.

No, feelings and emotions are to subjective for anything useful.

That is why the word "Affair" is concrete in its definition of a physical sexual act, and the attempt to obfuscate it, is little more than psudopsychobabble straight out of some feminist text to justify more nagging, divorces, false accusations of infidelity, and otherwise give women a justification to do what they want because...he had an emotional affair, as defined by the individual, entirely inside her own head, escaping any and all scrutiny or dispute.

Yeah, I call it (the term "emotional affair") stupid. I call it an excuse for more bad behavior. I call it obfuscating FACTS to suit WHIMS.

I have no use for it.
The law has no use for it.
The ONLY person who has any use for it...is the woman who wants to have an additional way to leverage guilt or divorce against a man or gain greater control over his life.

And by the by, I say woman...because I have YET to meet a man who would ever use the term "emotional affair".
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I hate to point this out...no wait...no I don't.

But the reason men never came up with this term in 9,000-12,000+ years (depending upon the dating system you believe) of human civilization, is because men are not just women with slinky's attached. If somebody doesn't ASK about feelings specifically, most of us won't even be aware of them. Men are compartmentalized creatures, some more so than others, but by and large we just don't feel that freaking much, certainly not enough in most cases to have the emotional life that women imagine that we do.

Heh...I wouldn't be surprised if the term "emotional affair" was used between lesbians first.

By the by, if I seem impassioned on this particular subject, its because I am having one very strong feeling.

I am UTTERLY SICK of emotional bullshit!

I had to spend four HOURS...4 FUCKING HOURS going through some goddamned Army survey asking us about our emotional state, how do we feel about our family life, how do we feel about our jobs...how do we feel about this, how do we feeeeel about that...how about I just feeeeel sick of the sensitive touchy feely horseshit, keep the fucking survey...and let me get back to fucking work.

If I EVER get hold of the pencil necked douchebag who decided a bunch of guys paid to get get shot at, shoot at his, blow stuff up and build better stuff...needed to yap about feelings on some goddamn government survey that, surprise surprise, errors out at the end so I have to do it again tomorrow...I'm going to string that little shit up by his toes and beat him to a bloody pulp. Hows that for "active listening"???

Wow...I feeeeeel alot better now. Happy happy joy fucking joy. It feels good to be mad sometimes. ;)

Good lord, Robert, get some help for those anger issues! Maybe mommy didn't love you enough or something, but misogyny isn't impressive, and neither is your vitriol. You sound scary.

On the column, he is either banging her or going to bang her. You don't text a friend morning noon and night and just leave it at friends. If he is not going to cut it off with her, you need to cut it off with him. Also he wants to be caught or is a complete idiot first of all why did he not delete the texts or show you the texts. He should have had the common sense to know that if he says something you can and obviously will go thru his belongings for a shred of evidence. so why go thru the added stress of being careless. if you are going to wake someone up to let them know and apologize for something he did not do then he is obviously doing something wrong. As per a discussion with some friends on this subject; men don't have women friends that are just friends. He either used to bang them, wants to bang them or is banging them. Just some food for thought.
@Robert, I completely understand your opinions on some of the Army surveys. I partially understand why they are doing this, PTSD research, however still have the opinion that the surveys should be voluntary.

Its my job to be scary skippy. Sometimes it bleeds over a little, sorry about that.

What does any of that have to do with misogyny? Since when is it misogynistic to expect that something have a definitive and verifiable meaning?

Affair, means an actual act, "emotional affair" will mean whatever any random woman says it means. Yeah, get me some of that.

And Anger is not always a bad thing. Getting angry at repeated imposition of idiocy by governmental bodies is a healthy response. The last thing we need is more sheep in the nation.

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I wouldn't mind a quick 5 minute survey Joe...but four hours worth of videos on crap like active listening and emotional connection? God its like being strapped to a chair and being forced to watch Oprah for hours on end, and then having to take a quiz at the end. What thinking man WOULDN'T get pissed off?

Eh...he seems to guilt ridden over the little stuff to actually BE having the affair yet. I'd say he's very very tempted.

Something of a douchebag too, I agree with Joe, he wants to get caught...but I think its not for what he's already done, but for what he really wants to do.

What he wants is for her to take action, before his pants come off.

There are, broadly speaking, two kinds of people, those with a conscience and those without.

People with a conscience tend to rationalize things, so they can do things that people without a conscience do without flinching.

"My husband is always working, so its his fault I'm going to have this affair."

"My wife doesn't give blow jobs...so its her fault I'm getting them from my secretary."

Everybody rationalizes a little bit. Nobody is perfect.

But most of us know, you can't rationalize the big stuff forever.

He probably spent alot of time with her got to know her and was rationalizing it with the "we're just friends" thing. Now he's getting to the point where he knows the next step is sex, and she is a very willing participant. He can't rationalize that, so he wants to get caught so that his wife will force him to do, what he knows he should do himself.

Why do I say he's a douchebag?

Because he lacks the courage of his convictions. He knows the right thing, but is ready to do the wrong thing if he's not stopped.

I feel sorry for his wife, and I rarely feel sorry for anybody.

I don't feel sorry for him. There might not be an affair, but I'll bet you a steak dinner that the way he and the other woman are in public, if anyone saw them together, they would assume there was.

The Goddess sagaciously declares:

Still, you don't get to tell another adult what to do, just what you refuse to stick around for.

Sagacious advice.

Damn good advice.

"An affair need have nothing to do with emotions. If I went out and nailed my nextdoor neighbor while I was married...I had an affair. Simple, straight, to the point. No confusion see."

How about if I paid a prostitute for a quickie, did I 'have an affair' then? I wouldn't think so, yet it seems to me that from a man's point of view, there's a somewhat blurry continuum from 'basically using a woman's body as a sex toy' to a full-out intimate relationship involving love and sex. It seems rather convenient to be able to wiggle out of a non-emotional affair by saying 'hey it's just sex, and us men can have sex without feelings' on one hand, while being able to wiggle out of emotional affairs that just haven't yet been consummated (sp) by saying 'hey we haven't even had sex, it's not an affair', like LW's husband is obviously doing. I think the word 'affair' is a bit of a fuzzy one to begin with. That said, I think that though I have to agree there probably is such a thing as an "emotional affair" in some cases, I would also say that the phrase is *vastly* overused-and-abused to label all sorts of things that aren't affairs at all, just for the convenience of the woman using the term.

"How about if I paid a prostitute for a quickie, did I 'have an affair' then?"

I hate to answer a question with a question here...but...would it matter? You screwed a chick other than your wife. Seriously, that is splitting hairs so finely you'd need a laser to do the job. If you do your secretary a dozen times, or the same prostitute just once...either way you're stepping out of your marriage.

This is one of those times I'd have to go after the guy's ethics, let me put a hypothetical conversation between the cheating "stepper" and myself.

STEPPER: DUDE, I need you to cover for me, I'm going to nail a hooker's ass before I go home tonight and I need some extra time. If the wife calls the office, tell her I'm in a meeting, but I'll be home only a little bit late."

ME: Guy, that is wrong on so many levels, she's home taking care of the place, its her birthday and she's cooking her own dinner and yours, if you're taking off early, go pick her up and take her out to eat, leave the hookers to the single guys.

STEPPER: Dude, Its not an affair, I'm not having a relationship, its just a quickie with a hooker.

ME: Dude, you're screwing a chick other than your wife, and you're lying to cover it up, whether you call it an affair or a quick fuck, its wrong, and she's NOT going to be less hurt when she finds out. She's been a good wench and she deserves better than that, I'm not covering for your dumbass, now get the fuck out of here.

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See where I'm going? You're splitting a hair over nothing.
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No, not wiggling out of anything lobster, yeah usually people expect there to be some emotions involved in an affair, but the fact is that while there MAY be an emotional component, as with that senator whatshisname who fell for that Brazillian beauty, there does not NEED to be. Its usually refered to as just "cheating" if a man only does a woman once...but whether it is done once with a different woman every time, or a hundred times with one, I don't see that it matters. WHAT pray tell, would be the point of splitting that hair?

Either way, he's a cheating, lying, douchebag asshole who is breaking his oath and stepping out on his wife.

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Now, on the matter of "emotional affair" the fact is that if he's not fucking, he's not cheating. Point blank. He might WANT to do her, she might be WILLING, but until he makes the decision, gets it up, and gets it out to get it on...he hasn't cheated. Trying to cloud the matter with a phrase like "emotional affair" is to offer up a term that is so blatantly a matter of "perception" and subjective entirely to the whimsy and interpretation of other parties, as to make the term totally useless for anything outside of a women's magazine, an episode of oprah, or to women who want to gain more control over their husband's routines, friendships, etc.

I can't see how anyone would desire to insert something so arbitrary into a rational discussion of factual behavior.

Robert, some things in life ARE 'fuzzy' - it does not mean that they don't exist. It's nice to have definitions that can be satisfied objectively, but in real life definitions are often blurry; you seem to have this absurd view that if something is not easy to quantity objectively, it doesn't exist. That is simply not true. All it means is that it is *difficult* to define, not that there *is* nothing to define.

That said, let's see how some major dictionaries define "affair" ...

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/love-affair
"a romantic sexual relationship, especially one between people who are not married to each other"
Score 1 for Robert in British English; "sexual" is a requirement.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affair
"a romantic attachment or episode between lovers"
Score 2 for Robert; "lovers" pretty much requires the physical aspect to be present. Interestingly, both those dictionaries also define 'cheating' as requiring sex.

So sorry ladies, technically Robert is correct. Actually I tend to agree, "emotional affair" is usually just cooked-up faux victimhood. Call things what they are. If the usage is metaphorical, well, making such serious allegations is not an appropriate time for using misleading metaphors. It's like people who say they were "emotionally raped", it's a load of crap, and insulting to actual victims of rape. It's a way of pretending to give more legitimacy to a claim than is actually there.

Still, LW's husband is having *something* that doesn't sit right, even if it's not an affair, it just means there may not be a decent word for it, not that there isn't some "wrong" / violation of trust going on.