Hannah And Her Scissors
My wife's a hairstylist, and I recently learned that she continues to cut the hair of a guy she had a fling with seven years ago. We're newlyweds but dated for three years. She's always been truthful and forthright, so I was dumbfounded that she kept this from me. She claims they're "just friends," insists the past is the past, and won't discuss anything. I had trust issues with my ex-wife and have abandonment issues (thanks, Mom), but had ZERO insecurities about my wife until this. She honored my request and told the guy he needs to get haircuts elsewhere, but I know her other male clients occasionally discuss their sexual escapades. Inappropriate! I think marriage comes with boundaries. I've been working hard to rid my mind of visions of her with others before me, but find myself prying into her past for details, which only increases my anxiety.
--Love Stinks
Yes, your wife had sex with other men before you -- because she was probably raised in some suburb in America, not locked away by her sultan father until you could buy her from him for a Lamborghini and a really nice herd of goats.Instead of spending your evenings giving your wife something to smile about the next morning at work, you're giving this seven-year-old fling of hers more late-night reruns than "Godfather II." Sure, she still sees the guy, but consider the environment. Yes, it's what I always advise a man who wants to stage a seduction: Put on a big pastel smock, sit between two little old ladies getting smelly perms, and give the woman a bird's eye view of his bald spot. Before you know it, he'll be telling her how he likes it, and she'll be begging, "Lemme take off my top!" -- in that secret language all the hussy hairdressers use: "Want me to take a little more off the top?"
You're right that marriage comes with boundaries -- and it's time you started respecting your wife's. You're her husband, not her owner, so you don't get to give her a list of acceptable topics of conversation: 1. "Nice weather we're having." 2. "Still nice weather we're having." Since you're also not her boss, she doesn't have to ask you if she's allowed to do her job: "My 2:30 appointment fooled around with me once seven years ago, but he really needs a trim."
What stinks isn't love, but being a guy who's never bothered to put his mommy issues and ex-wife trust issues on a leash and walk them to a therapist's office. Instead, you take them out on a woman you describe as "always...truthful and forthright." Nice! And easier on the ego than admitting you're insecure, seeking reassurance, and fixing what's broken. As for those dirty movies of her you've been playing in your head, all the better to feel sorry for yourself. You break a habit the way you picked it up, through repetition, so next time your mental projector starts whirring, swap in footage of Bob Vila replacing a toilet flush valve. Mmmm, sexy!
A woman is most likely to be faithful to, well, to a man who's so insecure that he keeps her in a hole in his basement and lowers her food in a bucket. Unfortunately, this is not exactly a prescription for marital joy. To have a woman make you her one and only by choice, do your best to make her happy and strive to live in the moment -- instead of that moment in 1990 when she failed to pop up from her prom date's back seat and say, "I can't. Twenty years from now, I might have a really jealous husband."
What? Like you never had previous relationships man?! You were MARRIED once. Remember? EVERYONE has a past. And sometimes that past involved nekkid time with others who aren't you. Like you probably were with your previous wife. Get over yourself dude.
Spot on Amy.
Sabrina at August 18, 2010 4:49 AM
Dude, you and your wife dated for three years before you got married. That's plenty of time for her to decide if you were good enough for her, and apparently she decided you were. Maybe it's time to start acting like you're good enough, and not worrying that maybe you're not.
old rpm daddy at August 18, 2010 4:54 AM
Standing ovation for this one!
Melissa G at August 18, 2010 4:58 AM
*****Yes, your wife had sex with other men before you -- because she was probably raised in some suburb in America, not locked away by her sultan father until you could buy her from him for a Lamborghini and a really nice herd of goats. *****
You owe me a new monitor. :D
This guy's got some serious issues. It sounds like he's looking for reasons to be offended. What an idiot.
Ann at August 18, 2010 7:26 AM
I have a sexual history. Oh, boy, do I have a sexual history. Between the ages of 16 and 31 I was, to put it bluntly, aggressively promiscuous. Enjoyed it. Don't regret it. Had a good time, didn't get anything incurable.
Since 31 I have been utterly, completely sexually faithful to the guy I eventually married. He knew from the beginning that I was nothing even vaguely approaching a blushing virgin. Heck, he knew several other guys I slept with. We've had some of 'em over for dinner over the years. You know why?
Because he knows I love *him*. He knows that I felt free to live my life exactly the way I saw fit, and therefore trusted that when I said I saw fit to live it in a monogamous relationship with him, it wasn't out of a sense of duty or obligation or "I have to catch a man." He knew I wanted HIM.
He also figured that if, out of all those guys, I'd chosen him as the only one to have sex with for the rest of my life, he must be pretty damned good. He was right.
Your wife is a person, jerk. She had a life before you, and she has a life of her own that still exists when you're not there. Either you trust her or you don't. If what you want is a being that has never had and never will have a life separate from yours, buy a Real Doll.
Dana at August 18, 2010 8:14 AM
What really puts this letter over the top is that the writer is upset over other clients discussing past flings (presumably with other women!) with his wife. Good grief!
Brava, Amy!
Laura at August 18, 2010 9:52 AM
I wish it was the wife who wrote to Amy so we could all tell her to dump him!
KarenW at August 18, 2010 10:01 AM
WTF do men insist on learning about there GF's past when they know that they're not going to be able to handle it?
Jj is dynomite at August 18, 2010 10:18 AM
"WTF do men insist on learning about there GF's past when they know that they're not going to be able to handle it?"
Or as a comedienne, (maybe Stephanie Hodge, I can't remember)said: "They want you to scream You're The Best! while swearing that you've never done this before!"
Pricklypear at August 18, 2010 2:05 PM
What really puts this letter over the top is that the writer is upset over other clients discussing past flings (presumably with other women!) with his wife. Good grief!
That's exactly what I thought, too, Laura. I mean, yeah, it's definitely jackass behavior to think he can dictate to his wife who she can see in the very public setting of her workplace. But to throw in there that he's offended that other men talk to her about their sex lives? Either he's just imagining what these men talk about while in the hairdresser's chair to shore up his indignation a bit more, or she has told him what these men say. Not really secretive behavior on her part, dude.
I also like this: I had trust issues with my ex-wife and have abandonment issues (thanks, Mom), but had ZERO insecurities about my wife until this.
This is like saying, "My ex-wife was a raging alcoholic and I have alcohol issues from my childhood (thanks, Mom), but I had ZERO insecurities about my wife until I saw her have half a glass of Merlot at a dinner party."
Allow me to translate: I'm accusing my blameless new wife of things that stem from my personal issues.
NumberSix at August 18, 2010 2:45 PM
Your answer is hilarious Amy! I pity the poor woman...
ie at August 18, 2010 3:58 PM
I put up with my wife's insecurities and mistrust because her first husband was distrustful. Why can't women do the same?
k at August 18, 2010 6:02 PM
K, what makes you think they don't?
Pricklypear at August 18, 2010 7:25 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point. The letter-writer isn't upset because his wife has a sexual past; he's upset that she has an on-going relationship with a former lover that she never mentioned to him during the past three years. I would consider that an issue. Granted, this particular circumstance (where he is a customer) isn't that big of a deal, but I do think she should have mentioned it in the past three years.
It's one thing to have a sexual/romantic past -- we all do -- but it's another to have continuing relationships with former lovers. I once dated a woman who said she had lots of male friends. I never thought much of it, because I have many female friends. She went out with these friends all the time, and I never was concerned about it. But over time it came out that all of these male "friends" were former boyfriends and sex buddies, and in her mind, since she'd already had sex with them in the past, any current or future sex with them "didn't count because they were just friends". Obviously, that was a deal-breaker for me!
That's an extreme case, but I think that if you have continuing relationships with former lovers, you need to be upfront about it and agree with your current partner to appropriate boundaries to those relationships with former lovers.
TestyTommy at August 19, 2010 7:16 AM
"I recently learned that she continues to cut the hair of a guy she had a fling with seven years ago."
Learned how? From whom?
"She honored my request and told the guy he needs to get haircuts elsewhere, but I know her other male clients occasionally discuss their sexual escapades."
Again, he "knows" this how?
What, exactly, does he want from her? To record all her conversations so he can make sure she doesn't say anything inappropriate (as he defines inappropriate, of course)?
She probably should have told him. If she was paying attention during the three years they dated, she probably had a good idea of how he would take it. Maybe she wasn't ready to throw a good customer to a competitor.
I do know that the more time goes by, the harder it is to tell someone something you know they won't take well. And the easier it is to continue putting it off as you convince yourself it's no big deal.
Anyway, he now has a new scab to pick at the next time he starts feeling insecure. I think it's time for them to start considering their options.
Pricklypear at August 19, 2010 8:01 AM
Old saying in my house growing up: "If you'll steal the egg, you'll steal the chicken."
Meaning that keeping something like this from her husband seems small now, but could snowball into more later. Human nature.
mike at August 19, 2010 12:50 PM
I have to disagree with the stealing the chicken argument in this case, mike. I'm with Pricklypear that she should have mentioned that she still sees her ex in a very public setting, because being secretive about it makes it look worse than it is. But, from the information we have available, I'd say that she didn't mention it (not lied about it) outright in order to avoid the very situation we're commenting on.
I also find it odd that the LW doesn't say anything about how his wife is sorry she didn't tell him or that she didn't want to make a big deal out of nothing. He's more upset about the fact that she has contact with her ex than that she kept it from him. He's more worried that her male clients talk to her about their sex lives than that she doesn't tell him about it (which she obviously does, unless he's been spying on her).
If this guy had written in saying that his wife lied about seeing her ex, I'd have more sympathy for him. But he's more concerned with her having any male contact that isn't him. And, given his rather cavalier admission of his abandonment issues, I still say he has problems with trust that are his alone.
NumberSix at August 19, 2010 3:03 PM
Another weenie-missive. I hope these weenies are not reflective of the American public. This teenie-weenie doesn't even have a problem--he is worried he might have a problem.
He should work in national security. They are great at exaggerating perceived problems.
Apply for work in our rapidly growing defense establishment young man. With your inflated insecurities, you will fit right in.
BOTU at August 19, 2010 5:03 PM
There's a difference between being honest and mindlessly spouting off information that your partner doesn't want or need to know. For most sane, secure people, the fact that your spouse onceuponatimeago hooked up with one of her customers probably falls into the latter category. It's not necessary to fill your current partner in on every past relationship, fling, and one-night-stand; in fact, it's probably not even a good idea. LW's wife hasn't done anything wrong here except get married to a insecure control-freak with mommy issues.
Shannon at August 19, 2010 7:50 PM
I also find it odd that the LW doesn't say anything about how his wife is sorry she didn't tell him or that she didn't want to make a big deal out of nothing. He's more upset about the fact that she has contact with her ex than that she kept it from him. He's more worried that her male clients talk to her about their sex lives than that she doesn't tell him about it (which she obviously does, unless he's been spying on her).
NumberSix, I agree with you. She probably didn't tell him because she's learnt over the course of three years that he flies off the handle every time she mentions someone from her past, not because she's trying to hide something. It doesn't sound like candlelit dinners and heavy petting at the movies to me. Hell, I do the same with various exes I'm still friends with because I know some of them don't like hearing about some of the others - that's fine, they know I see them they just don't want to hear about it.
She honored my request and told the guy he needs to get haircuts elsewhere, but I know her other male clients occasionally discuss their sexual escapades. Inappropriate!
What the fuck LW? If I were her I would have told you to get the hell out of my life. So her clients (no prior sexual history, just clients) tell her stuff - occasionally - who gives a shit? If you worked as a barman and drunk women spilled their hearts to you and you listened politely would you regard that as inappropriate? That line alone puts you in the wrong in my book.
Ltw at August 20, 2010 2:08 AM
and I recently learned that she continues to cut the hair of a guy she had a fling with seven years ago.
Sorry, can't help myself with this one - the time to worry that your wife is running her fingers through someone else's hair is when she's doing it on a bearskin rug. Not in a hair salon. Maybe he just likes the way she cuts (god knows I'll only go to one person for a haircut). It might be the only time she sees him. Well done for ruining your wife's perfectly good friendship. When you've driven all her other friends away you'll have her nicely trapped for life. Good job.
Ltw at August 20, 2010 2:12 AM
She claims they're "just friends," insists the past is the past, and won't discuss anything.
I've been working hard to rid my mind of visions of her with others before me, but find myself prying into her past for details
Hint - the second quote is the reason for the first...
Visions? And 'find myself' doing something is a classic copout. Control your actions or take responsibility for the consequences. Either way is fine.
Ltw at August 20, 2010 2:17 AM
LW- There are only a couple of ways to guarantee that your blushing bride is indeed blushing. 1) Can you say Amish? 2) I hear burquas are supposed to work, too. I'd add Mormon, too, but they sometimes 'test the plumbing' so as to guarantee that herd of littles they tend to have.
/sarc off
What you have here is jealousy, plain and simple. You say that she hasn't given you a concrete reason to mistrust her, which means the problem is yours, boyo. She didn't tell you about Mr 7-years-ago because it wasn't important!!! Honestly, it wasn't even any of your business. Get thee to a therapist before you take your BS out on a person that reallyreally doesn't deserve it.
Kat at August 20, 2010 3:13 PM
"LW's wife hasn't done anything wrong here except get married to a insecure control-freak with mommy issues"
At least he realizes it, which is step 1 (of many). LW, get yourself to therapy fast and get a handle on your insecurities before you spoil something good. Honoring your request indicates she loves you but don't take it as a sign that you should or can push the control further, you will use up your get out of jail free cards. A 7-year old fling is usually a non-issue, but listening to male clients is part of her job, being worried about that is simply not normal.
Lobster at August 20, 2010 6:33 PM
Ummmmm...sorry numbersix. Purposely omitting something is called...lying. How about if I was dating some gal and omitted to tell her I had herpes...would that be lying? With your line of thinking I just would not want to "avoid the situation"...
see the difference? No, because there is no difference between lying and omission.
Oh, and I'm sure you think that guys sitting around talking to her about sex is perfectly normal and no real problem, but as a guy I can tell you that when guys do that to women they are testing her limits to see how much they can get away with. Next thing you know one of them will say "let's go get a drink sometime", and then , because she is obviously lying to her HUSBAND about the whole thing, she could be enticed to sleep with him.
If I was the LW I would dump her asap before she cheats on you anyway.
mike at August 21, 2010 9:05 PM
mike, I'm not sure where all this snippiness is coming from...perhaps you've been in a similar situation? Because the leap from "my clients sometimes talk sex stuff in front of me" to "I'm running off to Cabo with Enrique and his luscious hair" is quite expansive. And, yes, I think that LW's wife should tell him that she sees her ex sometimes. I'll repeat my earlier post and say that, even though he does mention it, LW does not seem upset that she kept it from him. He's upset that she sees her ex. Which, taken by itself and given his issues, I could sympathize with him for. I'd tell the wife that she needs to be a bit more sensitive to his abandonment issues (without letting him dictate who she can and cannot see, of course). As I also said earlier, I think being up front about the ex would have been the best way to go here to avoid it looking untoward in any way, but, given LW's issues, I can see why she wasn't.
But he throws in the part about her clients saying inappropriate things in front of her. And, like you, I think it's inappropriate and that the men are likely flirting with her, like they would with a female bartender. But being worried she'll sleep with one of them is ridiculous if she's been so trustworthy, which LW admits. But he found out about her seeing the ex (how?) and is turning everything into evidence that she's not to be trusted. You say she could be enticed to sleep with one of her clients since they flirt with her. That would be true of any man on the street that gives her a passing glance. Again, I'm not sure what your personal history is, but most women don't have sex with every man that's interested. There just wouldn't be time.
Even if LW got his wife to tell her clients to stop saying inappropriate things to her, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference in her ability to cheat on him. The clients are not the real problem here. She's either trustworthy or she's not and the other men who "might entice her" are not a part of it.
NumberSix at August 22, 2010 12:58 AM
It's a question of trust and the trust question belongs squarely on the shoulders of the LW.
I have exes that I can barely remember and so if I fail to tell a current partner about them, it's not about failing to disclose, it's about these exes being so low on my memory/priority list they're just plain out of sight. And yes, I'm in contact with a couple of them--through my job--and I STILL forget that they're exes. That's just the way life goes--some partners are really that forgettable.
On the other hand, if I had a partner who I felt was unavailable in some hard to define way, I might view the ex situation differently. The question is to sort out the present situation between the two people--the LW and his wife. What's the lack of trust about? Insecurity on the LW's part (which I strongly suspect here) or is there some underlying unease about the trustworthiness of LW's partner? Is that unease based on reality?
More to the point, is there some underlying unease about the fact that she is someone who can have affairs and find them "forgettable" afterwards, as some of us women do? Not all women live in the world of high drama, where every man we've been intimate with holds a special place in our hearts. That's just life, and I would be a bit uncomfortable with a man who lived that way. It represents a bit too much of a "holding on to the past" to me, although that's just my personal preference when it comes to men.
I don't think a resume of all my sexual partners is required when I meet someone I'm interested in. And the same goes in reverse. Does he really want to hear about my backseat escapades when I was 18? Do I want to hear about his? Not really! I think the LW should get himself to a therapist, just as Amy suggested. It really sounds like it's all about him.
ie at August 22, 2010 6:39 AM
Mike, you are way off. While it is wrong not to disclose important details like herpes, you do not owe anyone full access to every minute detail of your life. Some things are just nobody else's business. I don't believe for one second that LW's wife told him any of this stuff - it was not important and she knew he would make it out to be. I would bet my life that he only found out about the ex's haircuts and the customer conversations because he has been spying on her at work. Which as far as I'm concerned, makes him a psycho.
When I'm at work, I sometimes get lunch at a nearby cafeteria. It so happens that my ex-boyfriend (from 20 years ago) works there. I go there not because, but in spite of the fact that I might run into him. When I do see him, we exchange some polite small talk but do not hang out together, since we really aren't close friends anymore. Now, do you think that I make some kind of big announcement to my husband of "Guess who I saw today!" Why the hell would I do that? After a couple hours have passed, I'm not thinking about it anymore because IT WASN'T IMPORTANT.
KarenW at August 22, 2010 8:15 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/hannah-and-her.html#comment-1745399">comment from KarenWThere's an old boyfriend I see when I'm in New York. I just adore him to pieces, but we're so beyond having sexual interest in each other...and not because he isn't cute, just because we're done and we've been done for over a decade.
Would I mention to Gregg that I'm seeing him? I'd probably say I'm seeing my friend Mark for lunch, or call Gregg as I'm walking back from drinks with him and say that I just had drinks with my friend Mark. Does he need my sexual resume with the guy. No. And he's not going to get it. It's unimportant. Especially since drinks with Mark are likely to consist of me hearing about all the women he's been seeing and giving him advice on them.
Amy Alkon at August 22, 2010 8:20 AM
I had a girlfriend (5-yr relationship), who incidentally was very jealous and insisted I stop seeing any female friends at all (let alone ex-gfs), who sometimes visited one or two old boyfriends of hers. She insisted they were 'just friends', and I trusted her and believed her, but after we broke up, she got back together with one in particular. So, sometimes there is something there. (Though it doesn't sound to me like that's the case for LW --- completely different scenarios --- in my ex-gf's case, it wasn't just a fling, she had been in love with him before and he broke her heart.)
Lobster at August 22, 2010 3:28 PM
Mike does have a point. If another man is talking to your wife or GF about his sex life, he's likely angling to have sex with her, or at least is entertaining the idea. He's getting a rise out of it. Otherwise why bother?
While I agree that the LW is probably being irrational, it could be that his GF is fueling the fire. I'd bet she'd get it if his female clients were discussing their sex lives with him.
oblingo at August 23, 2010 7:12 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/hannah-and-her.html#comment-1745661">comment from oblingoPeople talk about their sex and relationship lives to others for all sorts of reasons; for example, for a sounding board, to get something off their chest, because it's fun to regale somebody with your exploits (sexual or just in life). Humans have a love of storytelling.
Amy Alkon at August 23, 2010 7:21 AM
OK Lady - but if a guy is telling you a story about sex, and he's the main character, it's because he's thinking of having sex with you. You'll notice that guys don't go around telling old ladies, or little girls, stories about their sex lives. There's only one reason, and it starts with a B and rhymes with 'honking'.
oblingo at August 23, 2010 9:14 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/hannah-and-her.html#comment-1745683">comment from oblingoYou don't say "fuck" around old ladies or little girls, either. It's inappropriate to say a lot of things around old ladies or little girls because they are not your peers. You also wouldn't tell them about the office politics you're dealing with, or do a half hour on defriending somebody on Facebook.
Amy Alkon at August 23, 2010 9:36 AM
Dana (and Amy too),
Is there some promiscuity switch that flips off around 30? Seems like I am a different person and the settling down wasn't conscious.
That woman the LW married really should not be announcing to him running into her prior lovers at work or wherever. That is a sure way to get your guy feeling uncomfortable. Not excusing his reaction either. Your advice was spot on, as usual.
I have never told my beloved about my antics from the past. He actually knows some of the people I was with before I started seeing him too. I know some of the girls he dated also, but private times with others has never been mentioned.
Suki at August 23, 2010 12:01 PM
Context is everything and salons are a lot like confessionals. For example, I'm sure there are a lot of priests and rabbis out there who have heard everything, same with frontline healthcare workers.
Have any of you fellas who are defending LW ever spent a lot of time in a unisex salon? I ask because I'm one of those rare clients who HATES to talk while I'm getting my hair cut.
The problem is I am practically forced to eavesdrop on others' conversations and the stuff I hear is usually really, really personal. So personal, I sometimes want to tell some of these other clients to STFU! But I'm polite, I get that that's part of the "scene", and I don't.
The last wacky conversation I was forced to listen to involved this middle-aged woman explaining to her male hairdresser why she's started wearing light bladder control panties. Gee, do you think it's because she's dying to pee on the guy?
Hang out at a salon for a couple of days, guys, and just see if you don't get your fill of TMI. Really, I dare ya.
ie at August 23, 2010 5:17 PM
The LW may be out of his mind, but her behavior is very typical of someone who's cheating, or contemplating it..
so I was dumbfounded that she kept this from me. She claims they're "just friends," insists the past is the past, and won't discuss anything.
hmm.. a harmless just-friends relationship that she won't discuss? And when confronted on it, she agrees that they shouldn't meet any more??
Let's reverse the genders and consider how this would be interpreted if she were a man.
We don't know what she's told him about her past. Perhaps she was promiscuous or had cheated on someone before. Why did he even need to know about the fling. WTF is the purpose of telling him about someone she'd only been with a short while?
A lot of women have a bad habit of giving TMI at the beginning of a relationship - especially discussing all the men they've fucked - and don't anticipate how this info will color their boyfriend's perception of them going forwards. No one wants to be married to an ex-slut.
My point is that there's no reason to jump to the conclusion that he's an abusive control freak and all the rest. He realizes that he's got a problem and wants to deal with it, so cut him a little slack.
Maurice at August 24, 2010 7:26 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/hannah-and-her.html#comment-1745964">comment from MauriceShe hadn't cheated - he found her ethical and told me he had no reason to doubt her. This was about HIM -- his insecurity. I don't discuss the past - it's nobody's business but mine. You don't stop being entitled to privacy in a relationship. You're partners, not dictator and subject. Either you vet somebody for being ethical beforehand or you takes what you gets. Again, he found her ethical. And he didn't say how he found out, but he sounds like he's the prying type, from my exchange with him.
"No one wants to be married to an ex-slut." Not true. "Ex" is the important part.
He's making his wife miserable and he's being a controlling jerk for no reason.
Amy Alkon at August 24, 2010 7:33 AM
Ex is the important part
Sure, that's a given. My point is that you, as in me and the other men, don't want to know that your wife was a slut before she met you. There are good reasons to avoid marrying an ex slut, so if a woman is a reformed slut it's in her interest to keep that a secret.
For whatever reason a lot of women like to promote the fact that they've been promiscuous. I think that they think that they're presenting themselves as sexy and adventurous, but this often backfires and they just come off as slutty.
Maurice at August 24, 2010 10:08 AM
Just out of curiosity, what's the male equivalent for "slut?"
ie at August 24, 2010 10:18 AM
For homosexuals it's slut, for heterosexuals its a player. I think that that's the vernacular.
Maurice at August 24, 2010 10:30 AM
When I told my husband there had been several periods of promiscuity in my past, it was a warning, not a brag.
Not a warning that I expected another wave of slut behavior to come splashing over our married life, but a warning that if he was wanting someone sweet and innocent he'd better look elsewhere.
Same as when I let him know the tubes were tied. No children would be forthcoming.
Funny, neither my ex nor my present husband had a problem with either piece of information. Imagine, two men who were happy with an experienced wife who didn't want babies! (snicker)
Pricklypear at August 24, 2010 1:38 PM
So, in terms of connotation, which sounds worse? "Slut" or "player?" Hmmmmm...
ie at August 24, 2010 2:05 PM
"You don't stop being entitled to privacy in a relationship. You're partners, not dictator and subject."
I absolutely agree with this, and think the LW overreacted, but this topic opens up some interesting questions about how much/when you should share information.
Some of my ex lovers have recently "friended" me on Facebook. I haven't told my fiance this because it seems irrelevant and kind of awkward to say, "Hey, an ex-boyfriend just friended me". I would be concerned that revealing this might make him more likely to think there was something to worry about, when there isn't. Yet, if he ever found out later, as LW did, he might worry I've been keeping something from him on purpose.
I don't have more than friendly chatter with these exs, and only "friended" them because it seemed rude not to, but I probably wouldn't like it if I found out he was doing the same with his exs. So, my guess is that it's probably best to be up front whenever you're encountering past romantic partners. Remaining friendly with exs can be a touchy issue even if you don't typically have trust problems.
lovelysoul at August 24, 2010 3:27 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/hannah-and-her.html#comment-1746150">comment from lovelysoulAll Gregg needs to know is what my agent said when she saw me come up to him standing by her at LA Press Club: "You just gave him a look like you're so in love." (That's after eight years together, and it's how I feel.) Who came before Gregg is completely immaterial, and I think that's completely clear to him.
Amy Alkon at August 24, 2010 3:40 PM
I've had the uncomfortable experience of having people from my past (not necessarily lovers) sending friend requests to me on Facebook. And I know the feeling of not wanting to be rude (I ignored one request and the person just kept requesting week after week after week). However, Facebook does give you some polite choice in the matter, so "having" to talk to exes isn't really necessary.
The frequent requester was someone I see twice a year at a semi-annual meeting and for purposes of work, I eventually caved in. Then I headed to the privacy settings and precluded her from all my status updates and "hid" her from my feed. I've seen her commentary on other people's feeds a few times, but for the most part, I don't see her and I'm pretty sure she's not seeing me. I'm fairly certain she doesn't know that I've done this.
A friend of mine, who was getting unwanted messages via the Facebook message system (a bit harder to ignore), told the person that she never remembers to check those messages and for that reason, she never uses that part of the Facebook system. Eventually the messages stopped.
The bottom line is that there's always a way to starve a line of communication on Facebook. Not the most direct approach, I know, but in some cases doing this allows the other person to save face or simply be blissfully ignorant, an important consideration, especially if a work connection is involved.
ie at August 24, 2010 6:29 PM
Amy,
All Gregg needs to know is what my agent said when she saw me come up to him standing by her at LA Press Club: "You just gave him a look like you're so in love." (That's after eight years together, and it's how I feel.) Who came before Gregg is completely immaterial, and I think that's completely clear to him.
That is how I am with beloved and I hope we are the same way after being together as long as you and Gregg :) We both get comments like what your agent said from people we have known for years and not so long too.
Suki at August 24, 2010 7:55 PM
Hence the wisdom of avoiding, as the legal eagles put it, even the APPEARANCE of impropriety. Anyone who's not willling to do that bare minimum for a spouse should seriously consider becoming umarried.
Spikeygrrl at August 25, 2010 6:02 AM
Amy, you are BRILLIANT!
Anji at August 27, 2010 9:36 AM
ie asked, "So, in terms of connotation, which sounds worse? 'Slut' or 'player?'"
I'd vote for "player" sounding worse. If someone tells me he or she is/has been a 'slut,' it comes across as honest and maybe a little abashed. If he says he's a "player" it sounds boastful, and I'd think people would want to avoid him; the term reeks of ego and deception. Player? Give me a break.
Steve H at August 29, 2010 3:33 PM
"Let's reverse the genders and consider how this would be interpreted if she were a man."
I think this is one of those cases where it would be somewhat fair to interpret it differently because it really would be different ... men and women are actually different in this regard, frankly men don't generally simply stop wanting to sleep with women they used to be physically attracted to or slept with (unless they've literally turned fat/ugly etc.), while female attraction is a little more ... fickle, shall we say ... it's more 'in the head' i.e. based on perception rather than straight physical appearance alone, and if a woman decides you're a bygone, you're generally basically a bygone. Come to think of it, I'd probably sleep with any of my ex-girlfriends if a genuine opportunity arose, even though I have no actual interest in getting back with any of them.
Lobster at August 29, 2010 6:21 PM
I think you missed it on this one.
The only reason I have been reading your advice column is for a college class on Marriage and Family relations.
I agree that the guy is paranoid but his concerns about his wifes conversational topics is legit.
I married a gal that is a hair stylist as well and those topics are not acceptable topics at the places she has worked. More over, they are deffinately not acceptable to her.
For a woman, or a man, to engage in such topics with members of the opposite sex, who are not their spouse, is to invite problems. Talk all you want about such topics with your spouse. Don't talk about such things with others of the opposite sex. To do so is to encourage others to entertain notions that you are open to sexual things apart from your spouse, even if that was not your intent. If you disagree with that then that is your oppinion but I will tell you that I've seen this exact thing happen more than once. It is specially common in the cosmotology/hair salon idustry.
There are vows in marrage and they should be honored in word, deed, and thought. That is how a marriage grows and lasts.
As for the husband in your column, he does need to lighten up. And the appropriate advice, if in fact you wanted to help him, would be to get some marriage counceling. Don't play with peoples marriages. Good marriages and families that last are the bedrock of society. I like your whit, but resolve your article(s) with solid advice if you truly want to make a difference in the lives of those who look to you for that advice.
Matt at September 10, 2010 8:31 PM
Do men really think that women are such simpletons? I don't think they understand that men hit on women ALL THE TIME, and have since the women were teenagers. If an adult woman wants to have sex with a guy, she will. If she doesn't, she won't. Some guy telling a sexy story won't make her so horny she will jump him on the spot-real life is not like a porno.
Chrissy at September 16, 2010 12:21 PM
Any guy who questions or makes demands regarding who you talk to or not, is an insecure fuck! I have a boyfriend, almost 3 years in, and he has cirlcled my work, demanding txts in time I get home, fight with me over ppl I talk to, customers etc.? Who the fuck does he think he is??? I'm dealing with situation, but it's fucked up! I never question where he is, or what he is doing? Cause I know it's not my business, and I trust him, maybe\yes at a fault, but fuck anybody who thinks they have the right to "control" or keep tabs on who you are talking to, or who you are spending time with?? This guy needs to relax and be happy she's his wife, let her live her life, say, do whatever she needs with whom ever, nobody owns anybody, married or not!! live and let live, he's an ass, let her do her thing, she's coming home to YOU ass??
Nobody owns anybody!!! If you know love, you will give it, no strings attached!
Is she your dog? Is she your pet? What do you want her to be?
She is your wife!! Let her be who she is?
That's why you married her in the first place, no?
Im in angry mood, I deal with jealous shit daily
Nikki at September 17, 2010 2:10 AM
im sorry I didn't come across so smart, as one of your commentors said, everybody is trying so hard to impress Amy lol, I just went on a rant, any man or person who thinks it's okay to treat another as a possession is a fucked up person, and they don't know what "love" is
Nikki at September 17, 2010 2:16 AM
Nikki, what do you think love is? What does your boyfriend think love is? If he's that untrusting of you, he's either got a piece on the side already, or doesn't think he's good enough for you, or thinks you're a slut. Why are you with someone like that?
Chrissy at September 18, 2010 7:43 AM
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