With This Ring I Thee Dump
One year ago, I was engaged to a wonderful man I'd been with for four years. I loved him deeply, he was everything I thought I wanted, and his family was my family. Two months before our wedding, a dear male friend of mine confessed his love for me. When I realized I felt more than friendship for him, I thought I just had cold feet. After much soul-searching, I called my wedding off, figuring that such a strong emotional connection to another man indicated that I needed something I wasn't getting from my fiance. I have been with my new man ever since and have never been so happy, but I'm consumed by guilt. My ex-fiance and I spent many hours planning our future. It haunts me to think how badly I've hurt him and his family. I wake up at night picturing him alone in his bed crying, and I imagine family holidays with his young nieces asking, "Where's Auntie?"
--Racked With Guilt
You didn't plot to make the guy love you and want a life with you just so you could really stick it to him four years later: "Let's role-play! You be the baby seal, and I'll be the fur trader!"
It now seems that those hours he spent planning a future with you would have been better invested in playing Killzone 2 or balancing a ball on his nose. Oops. Love, like hang gliding, comes with some risks. Those who aren't up for them are free to stay home alone watching infomercials with the cat.
You got so swept up in the momentum of building a life with this guy that you didn't realize what you were missing -- until it came along and said, "Whoa, you're not actually going to marry him." The thing is, when something doesn't feel wrong, it's easy to believe it's right. And sometimes, you see most clearly by comparison -- and then come to the sinking realization that you've got to inform a very sweet guy that his bachelor party will be more of a perpetual bachelor party.
Going all "Da Vinci Code" crazed albino monk and locking yourself in a room to self-flagellate doesn't do a thing for the guy you left, and it sure isn't helping you or your current boyfriend. In fact, by focusing all this energy on your jilted ex, it's like you're still in a relationship with him. It's right to feel sympathy for him, but guilt? Feeling guilt would be legitimate if there had been something you could've done to prevent his pain -- like willing yourself to be wiser faster or going back in time to the moment he hit on you and giving him the wrong number.
Your ex might be weeping into his pillow -- or he might be out playing tennis or in bed with your replacement. I'm sure you're a great girl, but life goes on. Since you left the guy so you could be happy, the least you could do is enjoy yourself. You also might give yourself some props for not doing what far too many people do: marry somebody they know is wrong for them because, well, they were already in the marriage trajectory and they paid good money to send out 300 magnetic save the dates. They forge right ahead with that "Princess Bride"-themed walk down the aisle -- which, in a few months or years, tends to have them walking down a more "Judgment at Nuremberg"-themed aisle: "You may now kiss the bailiff."
I'm not so sure this girl is the "nice girl" you make her out to be, Amy. She went from 4 years of believing this man was everything she wanted, then some friend of hers admits his feelings for her, and she's dumping her current.
And since when is a "strong emotional connection" a reliable barometer for anything?
Had the girl written to me, I would have said, "If it's any consolation, he's much better off without a flake like you."
Patrick at March 22, 2011 4:18 PM
People don't always know themselves well, and when something is not bad, it's tempting to believe it's good, especially when that something comes with a family/community you become a part of.
These letters I get are much longer than those I print and I really try to print and respond from the spirit in which the person has written.
She basically realized the guy she was with wasn't right for her -- she was in her early 20s, probably didn't know herself that well, and knowing yourself is the starting point for knowing who's right for you.
Amy Alkon at March 22, 2011 4:35 PM
My attitude towards all of this is summed up very nicely by this song by Tim Minchin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYQWAdAbdfA
BTW, my wife got a kick out of it, too. I guess we are just weird that way, but we both realize it's true.
Howard at March 22, 2011 5:09 PM
She feels guilty because what she'd done was a bad thing. She'd deliberately harmed someone on an impulse. Now she's feeling remorseful. Perhaps she should. Maybe her new man will get impulsive with some other woman some day and she'll know how her ex feels.
norm at March 22, 2011 5:38 PM
I dont know it sounds to me like she is almost hoping that he is hurt, and hopfully enough to take her back.
Howard what do you think of these?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWhpk-8QLFQ
& www.youtube.com/watch?v=4539G-5yUgg
lujlp at March 22, 2011 5:44 PM
'Howard what do you think of these?'
Cute. Not quite the impact of Tim Minchin, but cute.
Howard at March 22, 2011 6:53 PM
She'd deliberately harmed someone on an impulse.
What she did was deliberately prevent the harm that would have come later had she married the guy. And if she is to be believed, it wasn't on impulse, it was after "much soul-searching," which Amy corroborates. It's the kind of situation she won't feel especially good about except in the sense that she knows now she did the right thing. The guy was always going to be hurt, it was just a question of now or later.
My point of view on her guilt is not that she's hoping the guy is still hurt so much as she's keeping the hurt alive in herself. Maybe she's still afraid of settling down, even with Fabulous New Guy, and is nurturing the guilt she felt a year ago. I would have advised her at the time to not get married but also to not get involved with Fabulous New Guy just yet. I think she needed some time to figure out what she wanted without a guy to worry about. Since the H.M.S. Serial Monogamy has already sailed, I advise her to do some things for herself outside her relationship. Take a class, learn a language, take up Krav Maga, something to see if she's a whole person rather than just half of a his-n-hers.
NumberSix at March 22, 2011 8:19 PM
The thing that really concerns me about this situation is that I am not sure I can completely believe this part:
"I have been with my new man ever since and have never been so happy, but I'm consumed by guilt."
First of all, how can someone be "consumed by guilt" and still be the happiest they have ever been?
Secondly, part of the problem with her jumping out of an engagement and directly into another relationship is a form of the sunk cost fallacy.
To a certain extent no matter what the relationship with the new guy is like, she kind of has to play it up even more in her own mind to justify having given up the previous relationship for it.
I guess what I am wondering if she really feels guilty for potentially hurting her former fiance, or if it is because she doesn't really feel like she made a good decision for herself but realizes that there is no going back.
Reality at March 23, 2011 12:52 AM
That's a sad story LW has, but it could have been a lot worse. Sure, she hurt her ex-fiancé, and his family too, but as NumberSix indicated above, she probably prevented more pain later. It happens.
Here's the thing that struck me, though: Feeling remorse over the breakup is one thing, but there's no point to being consumed by guilt over it. It's not fair to the current boyfriend, doesn't do the LW any good, and has no impact whatsoever on the ex-fiancé and his family, whose disposition is, frankly, no longer any of the LW's business.
Old RPM Daddy at March 23, 2011 5:09 AM
@Reality: my thoughts exactly about the guilt/happy statement.
If the LW is worried that her ex is alone and crying in bed, wait until she finds he's with someone who knows what loyalty and fidelity are. That should really hurt.
Razor at March 23, 2011 6:41 AM
Eh. I don't think she owes the ex a marriage at the expense of lying to him about how she feels. I know I wouldn't want pity nuptials. She didn't want him anymore. Better it happen before than after. She respected him enough to break it off and let him find someone who loves him like he should be loved.
Love, like hang gliding, comes with some risks. Those who aren't up for them are free to stay home alone watching infomercials with the cat.
Dead on, Amy.
MonicaP at March 23, 2011 7:17 AM
What she did was deliberately prevent the harm that would have come later had she married the guy.
How do you know that?
Reality's analysis is in line with my thinking. It's as likely that she's acted impulsively and is over-committing to the correctness of what she'd done as justification.
I wonder if Amy's response would have been the same if the LW were a bit older. If a 35 year old woman had written to her wondering if she should break up a 4 year relationship leading into a marriage because a friend has suddenly declared his love for her, and she's intrigued by the offer. This sort of thing happens all the time.
Also I'm very skeptical of the 'something is missing if I feel attracted to anyone else' line of argument. But it is a good indication of the LW's maturity. So maybe it is for the best. She's probably not ready for an adult relationship.
norm at March 23, 2011 7:48 AM
If she realized she didn't want to marry the guy--for whatever reason, or even no reason--she and he are better off not getting married, I think. It seems harsh for people to fault her for doing the correct, albeit difficult for all, thing there and call off the wedding. Going through with it would have been a bad idea.
That said, she comes off a litte self-centered here. I read this as little more than solipsistic fantasy about her value as an irreplaceable facet of a former boyfriend's love life: "It haunts me to think how badly I've hurt him and his family. I wake up at night picturing him alone in his bed crying, and I imagine family holidays with his young nieces asking, "Where's Auntie?"
It certainly makes use feel important to imagine our former lovers have no life, save that of pining for our return. The truth usually is that they don't think much about us, though, as they have someone new giving them sex, affection and love. And that person is, more often than not, a very acceptable replacement for us. In sum, none of us are really all that special, despite what we hope.
Spartee at March 23, 2011 7:48 AM
'It haunts me to think how badly I've hurt him and his family. I wake up at night picturing him alone in his bed crying, and I imagine family holidays with his young nieces asking, "Where's Auntie?"'
Obviously you did hurt the guy. But I don't think you should ruin the rest of your life over the guilt. Ultimately it's his responsibility to pick up the pieces of his life, get therapy or whatever if need be, and move on, and find someone new for himself. It's good you feel bad, in the sense that it means you have a conscience, but you are not responsible for what he's done with his life since you left him, and it would've been worse to stay with him dishonestly. How "the rest of his life" turns out, is up to him to author. Many people have had serious relationships fall apart. It feels horrible for a while, but it's not the end of the world or the end of potential happiness.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 8:08 AM
I mean, I was very much in love with a woman I wanted to marry, who I went out with for over five years. She broke up with me. And it did feel horrible for a while. That was, hmm, about five years ago now ... inbetween I dated a few other women, and now I'm happily married to someone else, someone actually more wonderful than the five-year one.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 8:11 AM
"She basically realized the guy she was with wasn't right for her -- she was in her early 20s, probably didn't know herself that well, and knowing yourself is the starting point for knowing who's right for you"
If this guy was also 'only' in his 20's, then she especially shouldn't feel bad ... he still would have 'plenty' of time to find happiness elsewhere ... it's not like she was his last shot .. I mean, it wasn't a case that he was terminally ill and she let him die alone, or something. He presumably had most of his life ahead of him still.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 8:20 AM
Breakups can be really rough, especially after being together a really long time, and especially especially after getting engaged and starting to mesh lives. But until actually married and/or having kids, there's no true obligation to stay in a relationship. Frankly, guilt over missing family gatherings would be a bad reason to stay.
It wasn't a divorce, it was breaking up, and breaking off an engagement. It happens. Ultimately it's not the end of the world. People break up for the stupidest reasons, and falling in love with someone else is *not* a stupid reason to break up, especially if she's young. Feeling guilt is a natural part of breaking up with someone, especially if they've been together for a long time.
If she's still feeling the guilt this long after the breakup, she probably needs to just talk it over thoroughly with someone. Mainly so she can get over it and let herself be happy. Otherwise it's going to affect her current relationship.
Sarah at March 23, 2011 8:39 AM
It's kind of silly to put too much weight on what young women say they want, or don't want, or why they're with someone. In all likelihood, the LW broke up with her fiancee because the thought of running away with someone else seemed dramatic and exciting, or he had more money, or it was Tuesday, or whatever. Realistically women have no idea of why they do they things they do. Their explanations are just rationalizations after the fact.
Peter at March 23, 2011 10:47 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1954379">comment from PeterRealistically women have no idea of why they do they things they do. Their explanations are just rationalizations after the fact.
Well, that's silly.
Some and even many women (and men, by the way) are irrational. It's the human condition and the subject of terrific books like Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts, by Tavris and Aronson.
Actually, Peter, what your comment suggests is that you have an irrational idea of women -- that ALL women are irrational. Blanket statements are to be avoided, for the rational, as they tend to not describe all.
Irrationality tends to lead to misery in relationships. I suspect, from your remark, that your approach to women is bitter right off the bat. Better to be objective and try to find a woman who is rational and has self-worth (without that, there's misery to be had in a relationship). I'm highly rational, and because of that, don't take offense at things many would. For example, Gregg took me to dinner last night and was kissing my head and simultaneously looking at the game. He told me this and asked if that bothered me (jokingly). I told him I appreciated his ability to multitask.
Amy Alkon at March 23, 2011 10:52 AM
Howard - I love the song by Tim Minchin and it's so true. There are many somebodies out there for each of us ... it's all so random how we hook up.
Sue at March 23, 2011 11:34 AM
"Actually, Peter, what your comment suggests is that you have an irrational idea of women -- that ALL women are irrational"
I think all people are naturally and inherently irrational, especially in our 'natural condition'; people are not rational beings, they are rationalizing beings. The ability to think rationally can be trained, however, in both men and women, but the irrational impulses generated by most parts of the brain remain and can at best be merely 'moderated by' the rational, and it takes an awful amount of work and training to become 'broadly rational', and I know very few people who could be described as such.
Of course we're all prone to 'bouts of irrationality' - e.g. when angry, or due to hormones - and I think the hormone aspect may contribute to make women more generally *prone* to irrationality than men (I've heard many women admit that, though it usually seems to be the lesbians who admit it, not the straight women).
Anyway, while rationally I know not all women are irrational (because I can identify rational counter-examples, like Amy herself), I also hear where Peter is coming from. Maybe it's because we have to date women (i.e. maybe if we had to date men we'd think worse of men), but it's easy to end up with a perhaps irrational perception that women are a lot more irrational. I mean, women do things like tell you how much they love you during a relationship, and then afterwards say things like 'you know I think I never really loved you' ... which to my male mind seems bizarre, because we always know if we actually loved a woman or not, and it is the sort of statement that makes you think that, as Peter said, that maybe "women have no idea of why they do they things they do" .. either that, or they sure can't seem to form a coherent explanation of their behavior. I mean, if you think you love someone, but later you think you didn't - huh? - that means you didn't actually know what you were thinking or feeling and that it was all just fuzzy and confused in your head, and then it all seems random to us, like your feelings change when the wind changes.
I'm not sure blanket statements need to be 'avoided', I just think they need to be taken in context; pure generalizations are usually technically strictly incorrect, but we don't usually mean them that way, we usually mean 'most' and 'in general' even if the language use suggests otherwise, it is implied, and such non-absolute generalizations can indeed hold much value when they are true.
Anyway, also loved that Tim Minchin song.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 2:40 PM
For the record, my dear wife, while no genius, is less prone to bouts of (emotional) irrationality than I am, one of the things I love about her.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 2:47 PM
"Of course we're all prone to 'bouts of irrationality' - e.g. when angry, or due to hormones - and I think the hormone aspect may contribute to make women more generally *prone* to irrationality than men"
You may want to read up on some of the very interesting research regarding the pervasive effects of testosterone.
By the way, which sex constitutes the overwhelming majority of Darwin Award candidates?
Labbit at March 23, 2011 2:54 PM
"Two months before our wedding, a dear male friend of mine confessed his love for me. When I realized I felt more than friendship for him, I thought I just had cold feet"
Actually, taking this for example - she claims she only 'realized' she loved this guy two months before her wedding, but that these totally hidden feelings of love were so strong that she wanted to marry him? Huh? How can love simultaneously be that strong, but so weak you aren't aware of it? I'm sorry, but that actually seems to confirm Peter's view that "women have no idea of why they do they [sic] things they do". I always knew exactly much I loved any woman, and it has never changed retroactively. Now maybe she did really know, but then it means she's being dishonest about it. Come to think of it, maybe that's why she still feels disproportionately guilty - because she is still being dishonest about what really happened, even in her letter to Amy.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 3:01 PM
"By the way, which sex constitutes the overwhelming majority of Darwin Award candidates"
Lol ... touché.
Lobster at March 23, 2011 3:04 PM
I've found that when people say "You're being irrational" what they often mean is "I don't understand you."
MonicaP at March 23, 2011 4:29 PM
"Gregg took me to dinner last night and was kissing my head and simultaneously looking at the game."
Amy, I suspect for some time now that Gregg is your imaginary friend: someone confirming all too well to your rationalizing part.
BTW, always enjoy reading your posts.
Best.
Mere Mortal at March 23, 2011 4:59 PM
I suspect, from your remark, that your approach to women is bitter right off the bat.
Really I'm not, and I take your point regarding generalizations. If you think that I'm bad though, you should speak to my wife. She's the rational type that you describe and has absolutely no patience for most women. I look like Betty Friedan in comparison.
But I can tell you that based on my experience, and that of most men that I've talked to, my point still stands. Most women make little if any effort to behave rationally in relationships. They may otherwise spend their time being perfectly rational, but in the domain of relationships, they're 15 forever. Take the melodramatic narrative that the LW has presented as an example. Does that read as though it's from someone who has really confronted the reality of what she's done, or someone who has cultivated a vain fantasy of her love life?
Peter at March 23, 2011 6:49 PM
How do you know that?
Granted, my crystal ball is on the fritz, but if LW could be swayed out of marriage by her friend, then it wouldn't have been puppy dogs and rainbows had she gotten married. The friend's confession didn't incite her to harm her fiance, it was an out and the kick in the pants that made her realize she shouldn't get married. Yes, I think it would have been worse had she realized that after the wedding, or if she did realize and had waited until after to break up.
No, we can't know for sure what would have happened, but the "how do you know that" argument doesn't work well in the real world, because we can't ever know for sure. The fiance might have been a closet clown freak and LW saved herself years of heartache watching him pull a rabbit from various places. We can't know. We can infer from behavior though, which is what several of us have done here. LW wasn't ready to get married, and I still say she's not ready to be in any long-term relationship yet, which is why she's still feeling so guilty.
NumberSix at March 23, 2011 7:28 PM
This is precisely why I'd 1,000 times rather be dumped than do the dumping (assuming the relationship is not abusive or involved cheating). When you get dumped, your only job is to move on. If you do the dumping, you have to deal with moving on + guilt.
I find it troubling that people are questioning the LW's maturity and fidelity. She didn't cheat on the guy. She didn't lead her fiance on longer than she had to. She didn't dupe him into a marriage she would forever be questioning. She did the most mature, honest thing she could in that awful, awful situation.
After being with my ex boyfriend 4 and a half years (and practically part of his family), I fell in love with someone else. I was too cowardly to admit it and stayed in the relationship (didn't cheat, though). I wasted my boyfriend's time and mine. Eventually, luckily, he fell for someone else too, and he was much braver than I was and dumped me. And, now, we're both happier for it. Still friends, too.
sofar at March 23, 2011 9:06 PM
Sofar Says:
"She didn't cheat on the guy."
We don't actually know this for certain. Sometimes when people say things like "When I realized I felt more than friendship for him, I thought I just had cold feet." it can be a euphemism for cheating behavior.
Needless to say, it is entirely possible that nothing physical happened prior to the ending of the engagement. However it is also possible that the LW "slipped" and used that as the catalyst to end the engagement.
Reality at March 23, 2011 9:46 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1955113">comment from Petersomeone who has cultivated a vain fantasy of her love life?
She thought good enough was good enough. It wasn't.
Amy Alkon at March 23, 2011 9:49 PM
Good point sofar. It took me nearly half a year to break up with my long term ex-gf (9 years) when I had feelings for someone else. Finally I did it. It hasn't been easy since but we're agreed it was the right thing to do. I didn't cheat either - unless you count emotionally.
The other girl turned out to be a bitch. Haven't seen her in over a year, but still friends with the ex. Go figure.
Ltw at March 23, 2011 9:55 PM
I, for one, would love to see where she is with the new guy in 4 years. Are we going to see a repeat? Was the new stud just an excuse for her doubts and cold feet?
The lady doth protest too much. And that seems common. A lot of women would rather be put on the rack then admit they made a mistake that new stud is a dud, particularly if they would come across as the wronging party. Actually, that's a HUMAN thing.
I'm not very sympathetic to her, but I've heard of worse behavior.
flydye at March 24, 2011 6:49 AM
And I'm happy she's feeling guilty. How long did it take her to park her Jimmy Choos beneath the new guy's bed? A week? A day? Cry me a river. She traded up with no warning
She just took the fiance's set life plan and turned it on it's head in an emotionally traumatic way (I just don't love you as much as this guy I never really paid any attention to before). Yes, maybe it's for the best. But karma is a bitch...
flydye45 at March 24, 2011 6:53 AM
I have to admit I took the worst possible path in this situation. I knew going into my marriage that it was a bad idea. I tried to break off the engagement, and he started crying, and I let myself be talked back into it.
Five years later we were divorced. He was cheating on me and couldn't hold down a job to save his soul. So much for doing things to protect people's feelings. I married him because there was no "real reason" to leave. He wasn't beating me or gambling or drinking, and at the time I believed him to be faithful, although later I found evidence that he'd been cheating since at least three weeks after the marriage.
"Good enough" isn't good enough. This is the part where rationality fails. There were no rational reasons to leave him, and plenty of rational reasons to get married. But I felt it was wrong, and that should have been good enough.
MonicaP at March 24, 2011 6:57 AM
She just took the fiance's set life plan and turned it on it's head in an emotionally traumatic way
Any way she broke up with him would have been traumatic. There's no way to say "I don't want to marry you anymore" and have it feel like a pat on the head and a cookie. It's about mitigating future damage. I'm sure the fiance's set life plan didn't include having a wife who would rather be with another man.
MonicaP at March 24, 2011 7:00 AM
I read somewhere that the most successful marriages occur around the 2 yr mark. When people date for 4 years or more before getting married, there's usually some doubt involved. What her actions have shown is that she wasn't fully sure, so whether she fell for someone else or not, she shouldn't have gotten married.
I'm getting married in 9 days, and people keep asking me if I'm nervous, and I'm not because I feel no doubt whatsoever that I'm marrying the right guy. A hundred other guys could profess their love for me at this moment, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
lovelysoul at March 24, 2011 8:58 AM
"I tried to break off the engagement, and he started crying..."
Don't fathers explain to sons the concept of stoic pride any more?
Oh, that is right, no more fathers...
Spartee at March 24, 2011 9:06 AM
And then, at the wedding reception, I saw an old friend and realized I loved him more than my current hubbie. But on the way to the hotel with my new beau, the hotel clerk just jumped out at me as the man of my dreams--except for the bellhop who was even better.
Amy, what should I do? What should I do? I feel so guilty--though I have had great sex, wow-wee, zow-wee. This is the life, although I am overwhelmed by guilt.
BOTU at March 24, 2011 10:32 AM
I'm kind of with Peter on this one. A lot of women mess up their relationships just to create drama. You can't really go by their justification of why they did what they did, because it's usually something that they came up with after the fact.
If this woman feels so guilty, then there's something she'd done that she'd not revealing. She probably put her fiancee through hell, and now realizes that she made a mistake. Maybe The Friend hasn't turned out to be as wonderful as she'd hoped.
mike at March 24, 2011 11:01 AM
A lot of women mess up their relationships just to create drama. You can't really go by their justification of why they did what they did, because it's usually something that they came up with after the fact.
I know a lot of women, and I've never known a single one to do ever do anything like this. Perhaps you need to hang around better women?
If this woman feels so guilty, then there's something she'd done that she'd not revealing.
Not necessarily. Ending a long relationship with someone you still care a lot about is pretty awful. If getting dumped is like having your heart ripped out, then breaking up with someone is like ripping out their heart and then ripping out your own, too.
sofar at March 24, 2011 11:20 AM
Hey Lobster - you're not allowed to touché yourself.
I think that whoever said that the reason doesn't matter, said it right. She wanted to break up so she wasn't ready for marriage, period. No one needs an excuse to not get married.
dr at March 24, 2011 11:34 AM
Dear Amy,
I invested four years of a guys time and was prepared to get married to him. He was my world and soul. When I told this guy who never gave me the time of day before that I was going off the market in a permanent way, this other guy who was really popular and hot in high school suddenly told me that he cared a lot about me and always had since I wasn't putting out at the time.
Blank is still hot and a lot more interesting then my ex-fiance. After all, I've spent the last four years listening to his stories and jokes and this guy has all new material.
And I know that he can take care of me better then ex- fiance since he had to borrow to give me a wedding, but this guy is in an MBA program and has a much nicer car.
So I told ex that on reflection, the last four years of telling him I loved him really meant 'just kidding' because I found someone newer and more interesting.
So why do I feel so bad?
If she wrote a letter like this, I wonder how many defenders she would have?But whether she is pure as the newfallen snow or a slutty golddigger, better she's out of ex's life.
flydye at March 24, 2011 12:10 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1956550">comment from flydyeEven if she lied, she didn't want to marry the first guy, so she was right to not marry him.
Amy Alkon at March 24, 2011 12:30 PM
Actually, taking this for example - she claims she only 'realized' she loved this guy two months before her wedding, but that these totally hidden feelings of love were so strong that she wanted to marry him? Huh? How can love simultaneously be that strong, but so weak you aren't aware of it?
I appologize if someone has already mentioned this, but I didn't see it so here goes.
This child is what, 22, 23? She's been raised on a steady diet of Julia Roberts films and thinks that is what life and love is *supposed* to be, and is obviously a tad bit self centered. I mean, really?
I wake up at night picturing him alone in his bed crying, and I imagine family holidays with his young nieces asking, "Where's Auntie?"
She changed her mind, long before this 'friend' declared his undying devotion, and he just provided a convenient excuse. Unfortunately, her Ex did not give her what she wanted, either fighting for her, or what ever drama she had imagined, and now she's upset.
She was right to call it off, saved that boy a world of hurt. She should feel a little guilt, and then move on, but more, she should take this as a chance to Mature a bit, and learn what exactly makes a good relationship, and not repeat the past. Oh, and stop watching chick flicks as if they were gospel.
P.S. We've all been there, done that, it's called growing up. None of us was born knowing all of this stuff.
Kat at March 24, 2011 1:26 PM
It isn't necessarily true that she lied, though there might be a few 'incentives' that she left out.
When I go to a restuarant, I might get a taste in my mouth for ribeyes. Then I might hear, at the last minute, that they have a special on lobster.
One is not better then the other and sometimes it's the same with guys (or girls) If she had invested all that time, speaking quite highly of the ex all the way until her friend crooked his finger, I have a hard time believing he was without merit.
Obviously she is free to make the final decision, but if her judgement was so bad then, what is there to think that it's any better now?
flydye at March 24, 2011 1:32 PM
I know a lot of women, and I've never known a single one to do ever do anything like this. Perhaps you need to hang around better women?
Never? Never ever?
You should try dating women then, rather than assuming that their gossip is always true.
Here's a common example of what I'm talking about. You meet a girl and eventually hear about her exes and the stories of why they broke up. Then after you know her better, you get the real story about the exes, and it turns out that her role wasn't as innocent as what she'd originally presented. And it's often a totally different story. The original one is just the story that she's been telling everyone to make herself look better.
The LW's story seems like an example of this. She's totally innocent, didn't seek any of this out, but was forced to search her sole and realized that running off with her friend was the best thing for everyone. In reality, she'd probably been flirting with him and likely began something before she decided to break off the wedding. Women tend to have a lifeboat when they leave a relationship. I'd be surprise if she threw everything away without testing the waters first.
mike at March 24, 2011 5:40 PM
Sofar Says:
"Ending a long relationship with someone you still care a lot about is pretty awful. If getting dumped is like having your heart ripped out, then breaking up with someone is like ripping out their heart and then ripping out your own, too."
Certainly ending a relationship can be difficult, but your description here of the magnitude of that difficulty doesn't ring true.
If ending a particular relationship was really as horrific as you portray it to be, someone wouldn't choose to end that relationship. That would be a relationship they would choose to stay in.
People generally end relationships because as bad as it might be to end things, they feel things will be even better with the other person out of the picture.
The fundamental difference between the person doing the dumping and the person being dumped is that one of these people actively gets to choose and the other one has the choice made for them. Trying to portray the one making the choice as somehow worse off is kind of ridiculous, after all, they could have also chosen to stay together.
Reality at March 24, 2011 7:33 PM
Reality,
EXACTLY. This guy had the choices made for him, so of course she is responsible, hence 'guilty'. If it was really a comfortable decision, if she really wasn't wronging him, then she probably shouldn't be feeling this badly.
I'm thinking there is something deeper here. Maybe it was just stringing a guy she shouldn't be with along. Maybe trading up. Maybe it wasn't so easy or gentle a break. Not sure.
flydye at March 24, 2011 9:50 PM
I wonder if Amy's response would have been the same if the LW were a bit older.
Me too. Amy isn't crazy about marriage to begin with, much less marriage by people under 40.
nan at March 25, 2011 8:47 AM
"If ending a particular relationship was really as horrific as you portray it to be, someone wouldn't choose to end that relationship. That would be a relationship they would choose to stay in."
Not necessarily true. I was the one who ended my marriage, for valid reasons, but it was still agonizing because I had been a part of his family for 20+ years. It's not just the person you are leaving, but their mom, dad, aunts and uncles, neices and nephews. People that you love too.
I think the LW is expressing guilt that she let these people down, and it's probably very hard for her to know they view her badly now as a result.
My gf was dumped almost 2 years ago by her fiance, only 3 or 4 months before their wedding. Like LW, they'd been together 4 years or so, and the guy felt it was "time" so he proposed, only to realize in the ensuing months of wedding planning that he just didn't feel they were compatible enough to last.
He loved her, but he was actually right. The wedding planning and the seriousness of things brought to light many of their differences, which were tolerable when they were just living together, but as they neared taking that permanent step, he had doubts they wouldn't last.
Unlike LW, he doesn't seem to feel too guilty about it. It was very harder for her, as she was extremely close to his family, his mom in particular, but when the chips are down, family is going to rally around their own. She felt shut out from people she had loved, which was as hard as being dumped.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 9:08 AM
To follow up though, my friend is doing well now and realizes he was right to do what he did. LW should take some comfort that her ex will eventually find someone else and be grateful she didn't marry him.
And although his family probably villanizes her right now, they'll get over that too. I have a great relationship with my ex's family. His neice is actually photographing my wedding!
Of course, I have kids, which are related to them, so it's a bit different. She doesn't need to stay in contact with the inlaws, but she should know that they will come to forgive her.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 9:15 AM
Lovelysoul,
I still believe it is necessarily true... even in your own previous situation.
The reason I believe this is that people do their own internal calculus before deciding to end a relationship (I am sure you did this as well). That calculus includes weighing the emotional costs and benefits of ending that relationship.
The only time someone actually chooses to end a relationship is if the result of that internal analysis indicates that they will be better off without the other person (and whatever social circle comes with them).
When people don't feel they will be better off without that other person... they don't break up with them.
Now on occasion that internal calculus can turn out to be wrong and someone can discover that they are really quite miserable without the other individual (or their social circle), but that doesn't change the original thinking that brought the decision about.
Please keep in mind that I was addressing the relative horror of being dumped or doing the dumping. Sofar was putting forth the proposition that in all cases excluding abuse and cheating it is emotionally better to be dumped than to do the dumping.
That proposition is dubious at best and flat out wrong when one considers that rational people don't make decisions that they believe will have a net negative impact upon their lives.
Reality at March 25, 2011 9:25 AM
Reality, in general, this may be true, but it depends on a lot of factors. A dumpee is sometimes secretly relieved to be dumped. As someone above described, they lacked the courage to break up, but the ex finally did. Both knew the relationship wasn't working long before the break came.
Being the one to call it quits takes a certain amount of guts and a thick skin. You are usually the one who is blamed, while the dumpee gets lots of sympathy. Some people honestly can't handle not being liked, so they'll stay in an unfulfilling relationship just to avoid that, or perhaps, like LW, they'll feel so guilty and upset that the friends and inlaws hate her that they can't move forward.
She may, in fact, be suffering more than he is now. For all she knows, he's out enjoying being single again (as my ex did!). Sure, they're sad and nostagic at times, but it's a bit presumptuous to believe he's crying his eyes out every night over her. If he is, he will likely get over it and find some new girl soon.
Getting dumped and dumping people is just the nature of romantic pursuits. It would've been great if she'd recognized her feelings before going so far as getting engaged, but, just like with my friend, sometimes the engagement is what it takes to wake one partner up to the fact that there's something missing or incompatibilties.
Sounds like what happened here. I don't know if she's truly in love with the new guy, or if he was just the "out" she needed, and it's a shame that their relationship made the breakup even messier. She should've never named him as a reason, even if he partially was, because no woman falls for another man if she's truly and completely happy in her current relationship. She should've just said she wasn't ready, which would've been truthful and less painful for the guy to hear.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 10:06 AM
"The reason I believe this is that people do their own internal calculus before deciding to end a relationship (I am sure you did this as well). That calculus includes weighing the emotional costs and benefits of ending that relationship.
The only time someone actually chooses to end a relationship is if the result of that internal analysis indicates that they will be better off without the other person (and whatever social circle comes with them).
When people don't feel they will be better off without that other person... they don't break up with them."
It may sound a little chilling but I agree with this. And the LW suddenly being presented with another option might have been enough to tip the equation.
Labbit at March 25, 2011 10:09 AM
I think that's what she feels guilty about - leaving him for another man. That is an ego blow that she didn't need to inflict.
Yet, we all tend to have diarrhea of the mouth when breaking up. We say way too much. You don't need to justify your choice beyond "this just isn't working"..."I'm not ready"...or the old standby, "it isn't you it's me".
She should've ended it clean, then later taken up with her new guy if she wanted to. But she didn't, so she needs to stop beating herself up about what she can't change.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 10:14 AM
Lovelysoul,
The example you give here doesn’t really contradict what I am saying:
“Being the one to call it quits takes a certain amount of guts and a thick skin. You are usually the one who is blamed, while the dumpee gets lots of sympathy. Some people honestly can't handle not being liked, so they'll stay in an unfulfilling relationship just to avoid that, or perhaps, like LW, they'll feel so guilty and upset that the friends and inlaws hate her that they can't move forward.”
All you are saying here is that for some people part of the emotional calculation is whether or not they will be perceived as the “victim” of the breakup and receive sympathy, or instead be blamed for it and receive the cold shoulder.
Sure, I agree that this is part of the analysis, but still someone only breaks up when taking all of that into account they feel they will be better off without the other person even if they end up being “blamed” for the end of the relationship.
I honestly don’t see how these sort of emotional issues are separate from the emotional issues specifically regarding that one other person. Rational people take all of these things into account when deciding what they are going to do.
Sometimes people stay in relationships because of monetary factors even when they practically despise the other person. The truth is though that deep down those people must feel like the money makes it worth it otherwise they would leave the money and the person behind (people in these situations will often take the money and leave the person when such an option is available).
The same goes for social circles and sympathy… if those factors didn’t make the relationship “fulfilling” the relationship would be over.
Let’s not pretend that the LW was doing the ex-fiance any favors here, she did what she did for her own benefit without regard for him. That is perfectly fine, but I don’t think we should act like he was the beneficiary of her choice. That would be like saying that a thief who steals all the money from a compulsive gambler isn’t really a thief because the “victim” of the crime is better off without the money anyway.
It is possible for him to be better off without her and for her not to have done him a favor. She did what she did for herself and because she felt she was better off with the other guy, not because she thought the ex-fiance would be better off without her.
Please keep in mind that she didn't end the relationship because she didn't feel it was right, she ended it because she found someone else (someone she presumably thought she would be better off with).
Reality at March 25, 2011 11:14 AM
"Sure, I agree that this is part of the analysis, but still someone only breaks up when taking all of that into account they feel they will be better off without the other person even if they end up being “blamed” for the end of the relationship."
I agree with that. No one falls for another person and/or leaves a relationship without first doing that analysis - the pros and cons.
But it still can be very painful, especially if there are children involved. Ultimately, you know you will be better off, but there is still a storm of emotions to endure.
In one way, it can be argued that the dumpee has it somewhat easier because it's totally out of their control. They don't have any doubts or guilt about what they're doing, or carry the weight of making the final decision, of feel torn back and forth.
For instance, in my case, it was such a painful choice, made even more so by my ex begging (on nights he wasn't out partying) to come back, and my knowing that this was in my power to accept but that, ultimately, although I still loved him, I wouldn't have been happy, and most likely neither would he.
But to explain that to my children, family, and friends - the many people who rooted for our relationship - even myself - was almost impossible at the time. No one knows what truly goes on behind closed doors in a relationship.
In other words, I was torn between staying and leaving, which is emotionally traumatic. I felt I had to validate my decision to all those effected, but now I realize that I didn't. Just as LW doesn't need to either.
You see, in her mind, she thought that leaving him for "the love her life" was a much more valid justification than simply admitting cold feet or that she wasn't ready. After all, how could people not forgive her choice if she'd truly found "the one" (that's why she needs to be extra cautious about this new relationship because she has a vested interest in it working out).
In reality, the new guy probably has very little to do with why she wanted out of this relationship. Yet, she apparently gave that as the main reason to her fiance, which was cruel and self-serving. It's hard enough to lose someone you love, but to hear, in the same breath, that they've already found love with someone else is even worse. It's a double whammy.
That's why she feels so guilty. Deep down, she knows she didn't need to use that as an excuse and cause him more hurt than necessary. It was a mistake to even mention the new guy. She simply wan't ready to get married, and that's all her fiance needed to know.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 11:57 AM
Lovelysoul Says:
“But it still can be very painful, especially if there are children involved. Ultimately, you know you will be better off, but there is still a storm of emotions to endure.”
I think you are absolutely right, and I hope you don’t think I am diminishing the emotional pain that the person ending a relationship sometimes has to go through. As you point out, this is especially true when one has built a life with someone else already. It is always hard to demolish ones existing life to make room to build a new one.
“In one way, it can be argued that the dumpee has it somewhat easier because it's totally out of their control. They don't have any doubts or guilt about what they're doing, or carry the weight of making the final decision, of feel torn back and forth.”
I think what you are getting at is long term versus short term ease. In the short term I think it is pretty much always easier on the person ending the relationship (unless abuse or cheating are involved, but I think we are talking about other types of breakups mostly).
In the long term things can be very different as how one feels generally depends upon how things turned out. If someone for example ends a relationship only to end up in a series of crappy relationships and then finds out that their ex is happily married, then they will feel kind of crappy for what they essentially did to themselves.
I am speaking mostly about the short term though because that is the time period when the future is unknown and the decisions being made are done without knowledge of what will happen down the line.
Determining initial difficulty from the perspective of how things turn out after the fact violates a fundamental temporal relationship.
“although I still loved him, I wouldn't have been happy”
Exactly, deep down you knew that despite your feelings for him, you would probably be better off if the relationship was over.
“You see, in her mind, she thought that leaving him for "the love her life" was a much more valid justification than simply admitting cold feet or that she wasn't ready.”
I agree, but this presents the problem I initially touched on in this thread. What happens when/if it turns out that this other guy isn’t the love of her life? She has essentially gone from one state where she felt trapped into another state where she is trapped simply because she couldn’t just break things off cleanly.
I for one am always averse to relationship hopping. If I don’t want to be with someone I break it off without having their replacement lined up and ready to go. Then I put myself back out there and see if I can find someone I like even better. That isn’t how the LW handled it and I agree this is probably why she feels guilty. She didn’t just break up with her fiancé… she broke up with him at the encouragement of another guy and then immediately jumped into bed with that guy. That is kind of shady behavior even though I agree that she wasn’t looking to hurt anyone.
Interestingly though, I am curious about your opinion regarding what I deem to be euphemisms that the LW uses:
“I realized I felt more than friendship for him”
And
“such a strong emotional connection to another man indicated that I needed something I wasn't getting from my fiance.”
My personal take on this is that it has nothing to do with an “emotional connection” as it does that she felt physically attracted to this other guy and really wanted to have sex with him.
This flowery emotional language just masks the really motivation and rationalization here and makes it hard for me to be really sympathetic for her because I feel like she is still in denial about her thought process.
After all, if having a “strong emotional connection to another man” is enough to break up an engagement, then why isn’t being haunted by the emotional state of another man and waking up at night concerned about the emotional well being of another man enough to break up this dating relationship?
To me the answer is clear. It is because while she now wakes up in the middle of the night picturing her ex in bed alone and crying, before she probably woke up in the middle of the night picturing the new guy doing something else in bed and I have my doubts that it was anything “emotional”.
I think that before she can get over any of this she needs to take responsibility for and ownership of her actions/motivations. Trying to relate this as a soul-searching emotional journey of discovery just makes it seem kind of false to me.
Reality at March 25, 2011 12:21 PM
“I realized I felt more than friendship for him”
And
“such a strong emotional connection to another man indicated that I needed something I wasn't getting from my fiance.”
My first question would be how/why are they friends? I personally think it's rare for a woman to have a single male friend - someone she would just hang out with casually - that she could also be attracted to.
I mean, I have single male friends that I hang out with, but there's no way I would find them physically attractive. They're just not my type, which makes it safe. Men for whom a woman could feel the slightest sexual attraction are not generally good to have as buddies if she values the relationship she's currently in.
However, sometimes it's the case that you become friends with a man you would otherwise be attracted to but he's unavailable - usually as a part of another couple. You don't let your mind go there. So, if this guy had been involved with a friend of hers, and/or her fiance's, then suddenly became single, I can see why something might've developed.
But just to suddenly see a "dear friend" as a potential sexual partner, when you haven't before, usually only happens in movies....where the two leads are obviously in love but "just don't know it yet" (though the audience does). Makes for a cute movie, but not very realistic.
In most cases, if a woman is friends with a man she could be attracted to it's because she IS attracted to him. Maybe she assumes he wouldn't like her that way, or whatever, but she still wants to be around him.
My guess is that this probably didn't come out of the blue as she describes. Most likely, she's been playing with fire for some time now with this particular friendship because the friend would likely not have professed his love without some encouragement from her, however subtle. Guys don't generally make passes at engaged women unless they suspect their feelings will be returned.
lovelysoul at March 25, 2011 1:02 PM
I imagine family holidays with his young nieces asking, "Where's Auntie?"
I imagine his nieces saying, "Good thing you lost that flake you were dating, Uncle. You really dodged a bullet."
dee nile at March 25, 2011 1:20 PM
I agree. Her choices were all about her. She wasn't doing any favors for anyone and was 'fulfilling the needs her fiance wasn't filling', whatever that is. Did he have some drastic change in personality because he's the same guy he's been for four years and she seemed to find him fulfilling enough before! (Obviously this was not the case in LS experience so it doesn't always apply)
Now I don't have a problem with her seeing to her own needs but she did do something ugly and hurtful and sugarcoating it is not right.
I absolutely agree with Lovelysoul that she did it in about the worst manner possible. "I'm leaving you because you don't 'do it' for me (and that can be emotional as well as physcial) but I'll be fine because I have your replacement already lined up as soon as I scare up enough guys to move my boxes. Toodles!"
No. Not much sympathy for her suffering at all.
flydye at March 25, 2011 7:23 PM
"Those who aren't up for them are free to stay home alone watching infomercials with the cat."
Or reading AdviceGoddess.com, cat asleep on lap, wondering what combination of action and waiting will make the misery pass the fastest.
Radwaste at March 26, 2011 6:24 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1962387">comment from RadwasteSorry, Raddy.
Amy Alkon at March 26, 2011 6:37 AM
I wonder if Amy's response would have been the same if the LW were a bit older.
Me too. Amy isn't crazy about marriage to begin with, much less marriage by people under 40.
Yeah, I always sort of wondered about that, being sort of new here. Getting unbiased advice re matrimony from Amy seems akin to getting unbiased advice from a vegatarian regarding the best way to cook a rib roast. While technically granting that it's A lifestyle choice, the default position seems to be if anything is less then wine,roses, incredible maturity, fiscal readiness, sexual compatibility etc, Just Say No!
flydye at March 26, 2011 6:43 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1962513">comment from flydyeGetting unbiased advice re matrimony from Amy seems akin to getting unbiased advice from a vegatarian regarding the best way to cook a rib roast.
Quite untrue. I don't give advice based on what's right for me but I will suggest people look realistically at how life often plays out vis a vis human nature. That is, in large part, how I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't marry, but marriage is still what a lot of people want. It would be bad advice for me to advise as if everyone is me and I suggest you go through my columns and find even one instance where I'm doing that.
Here's an e-mail I got this week from a person I helped:
My response:
Amy Alkon at March 26, 2011 7:18 AM
"Hey Lobster - you're not allowed to touché yourself."
Why, will I get hairy palms? Actually, Lobster != Labbit - no relation.
The 2006 advice was good advice. "and stop looking at my relationships as if they were something that "happened" to me" - seems to be relatively common mistaken view, in my experience. Actually, the one thing I like about the idea of arranged marriages, is that you are effectively forced to approach them from the perspective that relationships are things you both *build* and are always building and re-building and working on - not the results of metaphysical magical 'true love comets' that strike you from the heavens. Of course they're unthinkable from our cultural perspective, but I watched a documentary once of some real-life arranged marriages and I was struck by how mature the attitude of those in them was compared to our average attitude to relationships, and struck by their whole approach to how they worked mutually to build the relationship into something and 'grow love', and how they really made it work better than we mostly seem to be able to. Not that I would ever advocate arranged marriages, but we could sure use more of that kind of attitude, and it's something I found in my now-wife.
"Please keep in mind that she didn't end the relationship because she didn't feel it was right, she ended it because she found someone else (someone she presumably thought she would be better off with)."
Indeed, it was a case of 'sorry hun, but someone better has come along'. It happens. She happens to also be self-centered and immature, and I suspect not being entirely open with us about just how surprised she was that she had feelings for guy #2, but that's beside the point in that it still would've been better to leave guy #1.
"If getting dumped is like having your heart ripped out, then breaking up with someone is like ripping out their heart and then ripping out your own, too"
I can't say I agree. For one thing, the person doing the breaking up has always already had the chance to come to terms with it and grieve some. But it makes me wonder now how heartbroken she DID feel at the time it happened? Maybe she didn't feel her heart ripped much at all, and maybe she was surprised at how easy it actually was for her after four years, and maybe now she feels bad because the implication is that she's a more cold-hearted person than she originally might have thought ... i.e. maybe she feels bad now that she didn't feel all that bad when it happened. Of course that's pure speculation. But I know I can think of at least a coupla 'bad' things I've done in my life where I was surprised at just how bad I *didn't* feel about doing them.
Lobster at March 26, 2011 3:01 PM
Yes, it is possible to be happy with your life choice and still be eaten alive with guilt every night. (Hell, I suffer from irrational guilt any time I turn down a man's advances, because rejection sucks, and I don't like it when it happens to me.)
I appreciate Amy's kind advice. The LW may or may not be a flake, but she didn't mean to fall out of love. Should she have married him dishonestly and stolen his life, just to be loyal?
If the sexes here were reversed, and it was a runaway groom, I suspect some dude on here would be saying that the jilted bride must have gotten fat, or let herself go, or become too needy or domineering, or allowed herself to age four years despite his repeated objections.
Insufficient Poison at March 27, 2011 9:47 PM
Right, cause getting fat and being a bitch are just like not "giving her what she needs"
Note she never saids what that need was?
lujlp at March 28, 2011 4:39 AM
Amy Alkon: "Blanket statements are to be avoided, for the rational, as they tend to not describe all."
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Wait a minute. That's an absolute. Does that mean I'm a Sith?
Batman at March 28, 2011 6:27 AM
What she needs doesn't matter. He didn't have it. She moved on before making a legal commitment to him.
If the sexes here were reversed, and it was a runaway groom, I suspect some dude on here would be saying that the jilted bride must have gotten fat, or let herself go, or become too needy or domineering, or allowed herself to age four years despite his repeated objections.
I suspect you are right. If a woman backs out, she's flake. If a man backs out, it's the chick's fault for being such a fat, absent, clingy bitch.
MonicaP at March 28, 2011 6:56 AM
"I suspect you are right. If a woman backs out, she's flake. If a man backs out, it's the chick's fault for being such a fat, absent, clingy bitch."
Or, as in my friend's case, she'd get labeled as someone who "wouldn't let him have any fun"...although her fiance's idea of fun was to get falling down drunk, which she didn't like because it was unhealthy, and she really loved him.
But, in the end, it boils down to some incapatability like that. My friend's ex-fiance is now with a girl who lets him get falling down drunk - in fact she joins him. He's bloated and unhealthy-looking, but he's apparently a lot happier. He knew it would never work with my friend because he'd have to give up his addiction.
And my friend realizes that she dodged a bullet by not ending up in that situation. So, they are both better off.
lovelysoul at March 28, 2011 7:11 AM
What she needs doesn't matter. He didn't have it. She moved on before making a legal commitment to him.
But he did have it, until the amorous 'friend' inserted himself into the situation. She seems to have fallen for the assumption that if she found anyone but her fiancee attractive, that the fiancee was inadequate, and therefore she was being deprived.
If she doesn't grow up, she'll probably repeat this pattern with every man that she's involved with.
Nonetheless I do agree that it's best that she didn't marry.
lenny at March 28, 2011 10:55 AM
Would lay 2 to 1 odds that this bimbo finds another strong emotional connection long before "death do us part"....guy should consider himself lucky. New guy better have a good pre-nup.
TerryC at March 28, 2011 12:16 PM
I don't think that she's a bimbo. She's doing what a lot of young women do, bouncing from one relationship to the next. Eventually she'll lose her bounce and marry whoever she's with at the time. That's how it typically works.
lenny at March 28, 2011 12:22 PM
Folks, this is life. I think the main thing to point out is the gender difference. What If: he was the one to find another? He'd be a heel, a jerk, a user, an ass, ad infinitum. When a woman does this, she's seen as smart and empowered; doing the right thing. When men do it, they were in "it" just to get laid....
tonysprout at March 30, 2011 9:53 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/03/with-this-ring.html#comment-1979873">comment from tonysproutI think the main thing to point out is the gender difference. What If: he was the one to find another? He'd be a heel, a jerk, a user, an ass, ad infinitum.
Oh, please. He'd be a guy who realized he was making a mistake, same as she was.
I get far too many emails from people who knew they were marrying the wrong person and went through with it anyway. They get miserable and then they get divorced -- unless they spawn and stay together (miserably) for the children.
This is preferable. And regardless of whether you're male or female.
Most people who are planning to get married sincerely believe they love each other. You can get sex from a hooker or a bar slut, if you're a guy. And if you're a woman, you just have to be reasonably attractive and willing to pull your pants down.
Amy Alkon at March 30, 2011 10:23 AM
And if you're a woman, you just have to be reasonably attractive and willing to pull your pants down
$20 bucks says she could have the guy doing the work of pulling her pants down, so she doensnt even have to do that
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