"Basically, he wants to propose big -- do something public and outrageous."

Pass this along to him: Hey, narcissist, there is a fair segment of the population that wants nothing to do with you or your need for attention. Keep your private life private, and don't take up our time in life to sate your need for attention. Join the local theater troupe instead.

Look, they say for a woman, almost any guy is good enough to marry, but almost no guy is good enough for a one-night stand, and vice-versa for men.

Tell your buddy to e-mail it in. She will say yes anyway, and he will save a lot of time and effort. She may even fawn over the e-mail, and make a print-out of it, and frame it.

Save your money for things that count, like professional sport event tickets, mistresses, call girls and drugs. Within a few years, with kids, you may have to cut back on that stuff--and man oh man, you will wish you consumed your share, when oh when.

You are absolutely not wrong that this could be a very bad idea. Please, urge your friend not to begin his marriage with a "zany stunt".

It's not even a matter of whether or not she'll say yes. She probably will. But, years from now they both will look upon the event with shame and embarrassment.

Whatever hare-brained idea he has, it isn't a better idea than simply getting a ring, getting on one knee, saying some brief words, and doing all this in private. Encourage your friend to ask her with the sort of class and dignity that will lay the foundation for mutual respect for many years to come.

Oh, and make sure he properly asks her father first. In these matters, old-fashioned is best.

Dude, you're not wrong and this could be a very bad idea. Just go over to Youtube and search on "Proposal Fail." You'll get a long, long list of failed public marriage proposal videos. Review, note the best (worst) ones, and then make your buddy sit through them. Maybe you'll encourage him to think twice about his plan, or at least he'll understand that a spectacular plan carries the risk of spectacular and embarassing failure.

And print out WhistleDick's comment above and give it to your buddy to read.

Email, BOTU? Seriously? Everyone has their preferences but IMO proposing marriage by email has all the class of Phil Collins' divorce by fax. I agree frugality is prudent but something more personal, like a night stroll, need not be expensive as a public blowout could be.

"Pass this along to him: Hey, narcissist, there is a fair segment of the population that wants nothing to do with you or your need for attention. Keep your private life private, and don't take up our time in life to sate your need for attention. Join the local theater troupe instead."

lol. Yeah, forget about her agony. What about ours? Why should we sit there squirming through the whole embarrassing thing?

Definately agree about the e-mail. No no.

A sweet idea is to go back to where you first met - or someplace significant to your romance - and ask. That shows her you remember things like that and makes it sentimental.

Basically, most women just want a cute story to tell their gfs about how they got engaged (because they will be asked over and over). If the guy just hands her a ring or e-mails her, she'll get looks of deep sympathy. So, he needs to do SOMETHING, but it doesn't have to be over the top.

My husband hid the ring in a Christmas present. It was cute, yet still private. Later, I was able to go to the Christmas parties, tell everyone, and show the ring off. That's the fun part.

Introversion vs. extroversion can play havoc with a relationship. If you are an extrovert and love being at loud parties, love being in large groups of people you hardly know, love going out on the town, love shopping in crowds of Christmas shoppers, then you are the type who loves a surprise party or splashy marriage proposal.

However, if you are an introvert, you love none of the above, and your partner should know this about you if he/she is planning on proposing to you. Doing something public and outrageous with/to your g/f if she's an introvert could cause so much irritation, she may say no.

My ex threw a 30th birthday party for me, and we ended up with a house full of people who were all his friends. For some odd reason, he chose to serve pasta to this crowd of people. Unless you are a caterer with vast experience, you should not serve pasta to 30 people. I have trouble keeping the pasta from clumping up when i serve it to 4 people! Anyway, the short story here is that i spent my 30th birthday (party) in the steamy kitchen, cooking and serving pasta to all the guests who were not my friends. I detested the entire night, and every time i think of it, i shudder.

I am an introvert; we commonly argued over how many times we should socialize per week, as he was (still is) a huge extrovert, and wanted to be out smoozing 4x per week, whereas i was content to spend cozy nights at home in his company. Eventually, he wore me out.

So, the moral of this story is that if LW has to ask his best buddy what HE thinks of plans to throw a huge (possibly embarrassing) party/proposal on his g/f, then he should pause and give thought to what SHE might want and if she is an extrovert (loves partying) or an introvert (loves quiet time) which could make all the difference in the world.

As a post script, IMHO a lot of extroverts are out there trying to prove to the world what a fun-loving person they are, and in some regards, i think they are searching for acceptance from the faceless crowds. I could be wrong, it might just be simplistic, and LW wants to shout his love from the mountaintops. But i believe that shouting from the mountaintops should be a solo activity, then come down from there and resume your normal life, don't take 50 people up to the mountaintop with you - it just gets crowded and uncomfortable.

Some people are sort of a mixture. I lean more towards introvert, but I love to entertain. Serving 50+ people is fun to me, but I wouldn't want a suprise party thrown just in my honor. Maybe it's because, with entertaining, the focus is usually on the food and drink not on me...plus I have the perfect excuse to go hide in the kitchen if things gets too loud.

Come on, guys talk to their friends as much as girls do. So what he is asking his friend about it? The only thing that really needs to be considered is whether or not his girlfriend likes the big, in public kind of thing, or the more private.

There's nothing I like less these days than the wave of prefab spontaneity that seems to be going round the proposal and wedding circuit. Especially when it's followed up with a website conveniently containing links for the media to be able to contact the happy couple (a la, the recent movie theatre proposal—thing).

I love BOTU's dry sarcasm but I couldn't pass up the opportunity for the Phil Collins comparison.
I did have an acquantance whose idea of a "love letter" to her husband was typewritten from a computer, down to her signature. I don't know how he proposed, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had considered email an option.
I agree that the potential fiancee's social tolerance is of crucial importance; he must consider how she will react to the setting he is thinking of. Ideally she'll be more likely to faint because of the thrill that he asked, than because she hyperventilated in a panic attack.

If you don't like watching them, why do you? I really don't see what the problem is if this is what he wants to do and knows the gf won't freak out. No one is forcing anyone to watch. You can actually choose Not to watch these videos. There are probably people who like them. Really what is the big deal?

Is he a muslim and has he reviewed the etiquette of beating with her first?

I'm with WhistleDick and Old RPM Daddy on this one. The guy should go light and sweet with the proposal. If she says 'yes', then have the big blow-out.

Oh and BOTU? Shut up!! (yer killin'me!)

o.O

Introversion vs. extroversion

Exactly! And these kinds of cheeseball antics for a marriage proposal is exactly why I don't like extroverts. I agree with the poster who pointed out the narcissism of such a proposal - do not want. A marriage proposal should be a special moment between the two of you, not a public spectacle. Witnesses (not strangers) come to the wedding, not the proposal.

No one is forcing anyone to watch. You can actually choose Not to watch these videos.

I think the poster meant that if you are at a ball game say, and some arsehole decides to propose on the jumbotron, then you ARE being forced to watch. What if I'd just eaten? Don't want to be sick all over my favourite team jersey!

"I am an introvert; we commonly argued over how many times we should socialize per week, as he was (still is) a huge extrovert, and wanted to be out smoozing 4x per week, whereas i was content to spend cozy nights at home in his company. Eventually, he wore me out."

This was one of the main problems between my ex and me as well. He also spoke to strangers everywhere we went, standing in line, at the next table in the restaurant, everywhere. Nothing inherently wrong with that at all, it was just wrong for me and made me squirm.

And he did give me the engagement ring in public in front of a roomful of strangers. Back then I thought my introversion was some kind of character defect, and that marrying someone so different from myself might improve me.

I'm an introvert married to an extrovert, and it DOES wear me out. He can't understand why I don't want to have a barbeque or dinner party every weekend. You should've seen the look of confusion on his face last night when I told him that he could only invite ONE person over for dinner.

He did propose privately, though.

It sounds like you and Gregg accept and accommodate each other. My ex thought it wasn't "normal" to want as much solitude as I need.

Extrovert *does not* equal narcissist. Introvert *does not* equal socially awkward, closed off, or shy.

Extroverts find their energy in groups. Introverts find their energy in solitude. An extrovert can go on solo hike, and work like mad behind a closed door. Introverts can throw great parties. Our actions are choices. Our preferences; in the case of the discussion above, extroversion and introversion, are more innate.

I've never understood proposals as publicity stunts, either. What is the possible upside?

One Youtube failed proposal video shows a proposal at a concert, where the girl said no. Then the band leader said, "Uh, does anybody know these people?" If I go to a concert or a dance, I want to dance or hear a band, not stand around for five minutes hearing about how special someone's love is. If you must propose in front of strangers, at least get on with it. Or join a theater troupe instead.

You made me laugh Thag Jones! I think that within a good relationship there would be accommodations for each other. The point would be to share your lives, not make one or the other disappear. Say both people are into these big extravagant proposals? Then why not? I would not be into this myself as I tend to like to live my life on a more quiet level. But to each his own, and really they are not actually doing any harm even if it can be annoying! ha! And if it happens at a game on the jumbo tron, and you really cannot stand to watch, you can always use that time to go get beer or use the potty! :)

"He also spoke to strangers everywhere we went, standing in line, at the next table in the restaurant, everywhere. Nothing inherently wrong with that at all, it was just wrong for me and made me squirm."

I know exactly how you felt. My ex was the same. He made "friends" and would strike up conversations with strangers everywhere. Sometimes, it was nice, and I think my tolerance for it actually grew after 20+ years living with him. I find myself doing it now. I'll strike up a conversation with someone sitting near us at a bar or restaurant, but I try to be mindful of my husband's feelings because, for him, going out, just the two of us, is really about just the two of us.

The interesting thing to me is that, for all his socializing, my ex has fewer true friends than I do. He has aquaintances all over the world, but most of the relationships he's formed chatting up strangers never bloom into anything...though, when we were married, he was always insistent that it was "healthier" to be so outgoing and he loved to "make friends", and I was like, "Yeah, but are they going to be there for you when the chips are down or just until the next martini comes?" (I got kind of caustic towards the end).

And, seriously, our photo albums are full of people who became fast friends like that, then fizzled away. I am much more careful about who I allow in my life. My friendships are slower to form but longer-lasting.

Well, if no email, then you could try a proposal in person like, "I hope you give better blow jobs that that, when we are married."

We were at a very expensive restaurant for our 5th anniversary. I noticed a video camera set up in the corner, and I went up to the maitre' D and told him I did not want to be on camera and requested a change in tables. I was told there was no other table. I was very clear I wanted nothing to do with a video and I did not want to be on one.

So we got through our appetizer and were working on our salads, when an idiot in a gorilla suit came into the dining room. He was stopping at tables and taking things off people's plates, he grabbed a handful of my salad and threw it in the air. Then he ran his hand through my hair and down my back, salad dressing and all. He was jumping around trying to do a gorilla grunt and other noises. He then knelt in front of a young woman and pulled out a ring case and asked her to marry him. She started to cry and before she could accept his proposal she cried out "How could you do this to me? I will always remember angry people when you proposed." She did accept but she was also mortified.

Afterwards the young man came around asking people to sign a release so he could turn it into America's Funniest Videos. Hmmmmm he disturbed my expensive dinner, stained my silk dress, ruined my salad, put me on a video I had no desire to be on, so I refused. He then berated me loudly trying to get other diners to join him in trying to pressure me to sign. I refused and forced my way into a standing position while he was trying to intimidate me by leaning over me while I was sitting. Since he was not tall and I am his attempt to intimidate me did not work. We told the server we would not be ordering a main course and we would be leaving. I have never been back to that restaurant.

Oh yeah, I have such memories of being an unwilling participant of some idiot's idea of a BIG proposal. I will NEVER forget the look on that girl's face and her complete dismay. I have to wonder how much she has been dismayed over the years.

Worthit: You sound like more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

That's one way to fertilize a woman.

Crowds soak up my energy. They deplete me.

BOTU - I am more fun than you can dream of!

Speaking of feces... It appears to have gotten deep...

one of my fave proposal stories happened to someone else:
he took her to the park where they had their first date(a picnic), telling her he wanted to take some pics there as they had gotten a new camera and she's an aspiring photog.
He set up the tripod and said let's take one of us 1st and set the timer. They got in front of the camera w/ a lake behind them and he got down on one knee, whipped out the ring and they have a photo of the moment. sweet.
my prosal story is quite different:
my now husband said one morning, "So, do you feel like going ring shopping today?"
such a romantic that man of mine! lol

I have a friend with a dental implant, thanks to her now husband, who, when he was set to propose, thought he would really surprise her by sticking the ring in her dessert.

Some things just don't turn out the way you think they will........

In the restaurant, during the exact moment she forked that piece of cake into her mouth - the forkfull with the diamond ring in it - his head turned to view the loud clatter taking place 3 tables away from them.

Yep, you got it - she bit into the ring in the piece of cake and ended up breaking her tooth. At least he paid for her implant. I always wonder why he did that - and if television played a role in how he made the decision to do it. You might see that type of thing in an episode of "I Love Lucy" or "Friends", but i never thought i would hear of it happening in real life.

Lovelysoul quote: I know exactly how you felt. My ex was the same. He made "friends" and would strike up conversations with strangers everywhere.

That drove me nuts about a guy I recently dated. He would befriend anybody within earshot, but what mortified me was his insistence upon relaying his entire life story to these complete strangers. I would frequently sit in silence for 30 + bored minutes while he relayed every detail of his existence, including all of his financial and child custody woes.

I appreciate and participate in brief converstaions with people in public, but holy criminy he just would not believe that people might not think he's as fascinating as he thinks he is!

Show him this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmubD3skJo4
Bad bad juju, boss.

"he took her to the park where they had their first date(a picnic), telling her he wanted to take some pics there as they had gotten a new camera and she's an aspiring photog."

Now that's a nice private way to do it that's also clever.

Here's a feel good story for you. Two colleagues of mine were in NYC on business and were able to carve out some time to go sightseeing. While in central park near some fountain that I guess is famous, one of the guys posed, smiling and waving, with this fountain in the distant background while the other guy snapped his picture. When his coworker handed the camera back, he reviewed the picture and noticed that there was a guy in the background on one knee and he just happened to capture the exact moment of her joyfully saying yes.

He approached the couple and showed them the moment he happened to capture. It turns out they were visiting from Italy. They exchanged addresses and he sent them a nice framed print of the picture, complete with him cheesing for the camera in the foreground. They sent back a very nice case of Italian wine and a very thoughtful thank you note.

A nice experience for all involved.

Worthit, I'm dumbstruck.

If some costumed fool did that to a family member of mine, there is a good chance the restaurant patrons would be treated the scene of an incoherent, enraged man beating to death the costumed fool who assaulted my family member.

Seriously. Has the world lost its senses? Who would presume to assault a woman like that in front of her husband, and *not* think violence was likely to follow?

@ whistleDick... what's the address?... i, too, can send some cheesy pics for a case of vino :) :D

@ Meloni - this just proves my previous point re: extroverts who go that extra mile to "impress" with neverending chatter about themselves, swapping addresses, details, and even intimacies with people they JUST met. Gulp. It's just embarrassing to see or be party to.

Like ken in sc, crowds soak up my energy and deplete me. It took me years to learn to own that part of myself, which included divorcing my first husband who was an extreme extrovert and did not accept my introversion, and in fact, worked hard to "break me of it", but i do happily own it now.

I can skim the surface of most crowds if I have to, but my idea of the perfect vacation would be to spend a week or two in one of those sound proof chambers NASA used to lock people in to see if they'd go carzy alone in space

Tell you friend not to embarrass her with a big, public display. He might end up being the one embarrassed if/when she gives him the answer he does not want to hear. Can he bear being turned down on satellite TV?

Bluejean Baby and other introverts, thumbs up. I'd say unite, but it would drive us all batty.

Do realize that no matter how many times us introverts explain ourselves to extroverts, they not only don't believe us, but are convinced they can convert us with enough effort.

The best explanation for extroverts/introverts is that extroverts gain energy being around groups of people, introverts are drained in the same circumstance. Last weekend I babysat my darling granddaughter and realized that I wasn't just drained from her energy (raising children in a young person's task) but by her requirement to needed constantly.

I think the latter contributed to my divorce (and that my extroverted wife was/is a bonafide borderline.)

I've always thought this was super cute and intimate: http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/photobooth-proposal

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