"Is Georgia an American state, or a North American outpost of The Vatican?"

I've no problem with karking on those who would introduce religion into government, but at least get your religions correct. The South (esp. GA) is Baptist, which is distinctly not Catholic.


"...some dimwit Democrats..."

Many Southern Dem's, not just some.


"...practice my French so I can get out of Dodge when we become a Christian country..."

You will then avoid the radical Islamists who are taking over that country, how?


"Sounds like paranoia, perhaps."

Yes it does. I've been athiest longer than you've drawn breath, and we've progressed, not regressed since I was your age.

Good point. I did a report on Georgia when I was on sixth grade, but I didn't get into religion. And while radical Islamists are overpopulating France and much of Europe and are certainly to be feared, at least nobody over there is legislating religion. In fact, they have a principle of "laïcité" in France -- legislated secularism -- which is why they had a problem with the headscarf issue. I'm a patriotic American, and I don't want to leave America, but it's most worrisome the direction we're going. Perhaps you see progress. I see regression right and left. It's 2006. Can't we get rid of the witchdocterism as personal belief, or at least not make it part of state functioning?

With me being Buddhist, how does the Ten Commandments apply to me...or any other practicing Buddhist? And how does it apply to legal practice? Things are getting bad with the religious zealots these days. i thought that this country was founded partly on the basis religious freedom.

This appears entirely consistent with the middle ground carved out by the Supreme Court last year allowing publica representations of the Ten Commandments only alongside other historical law-making presentations. Even if you are not a believer, it seems emminently reasonable to me, to use the Decalogue as a public symbol of ancient legislation. Regretably, I doubt a bronze relief of Hammurabi would strike the same public resonsance.

If this still freaks you out, Amy, I think you better find some place other than France, which is far more likely than the USA to become an theocracy (of the Islamic variety) in the next 50 years.

France soon to become an Islamic theocracy? That's ridiculous. I've been an American ex-pat in Europe for almost 30 years now. Europe is a thoroughly delightful place to live. It's far more progressive and "normal" than the US has become. Amy, feel free to get in touch when you decide you can't bear it over there any longer.

"It's far more progressive and "normal" than the US has become."

Yes. So "normal" that when a radical Islamic murdered a filmaker for making a film, their thinkers basically said nothing. But when someone spraypainted "Thou shalt not kill" in response, they bowed to a pissed off imam and cleaned it off as "hate speech".

"Can't we get rid of the witchdocterism as personal belief, or at least not make it part of state functioning?"

Freedom of speech and thought and all. But, keep it out of gov, yes.

Ill-advised behavior and unconstitutional legislation are two entirely different things.

Amy, actually I was referring to the alarming European immigration and childbirth rates that could ultimately result in an Islamic majority in certain countries - France included.

As for the "unconstitutional legislation," as I mentioned above, it seems to me that the Barrow County measure was crafted specifically to meet the guidelines described in last year's Supreme Court rulings. You may not like the result, but they ARE currently consistent with the Constitution.

> at least nobody over there
> is legislating religion.

Not this year... Are you taking wagers for 2012? 2018?

"Christian heritage" NO "Deist heritage" POSSIBLY. Take motivation into consideration for legislation rather than saying "eh". The James Kennedies of the country can justify anything.

I was referring to the alarming European immigration and childbirth rates that could ultimately result in an Islamic majority in certain countries - France included.

"They're breeding faster than us!" has been used as an argument to create fear against Irish, Mexicans, blacks, and now Muslims. Pardon me if I'm a little skeptical.

If you think all those kids are going to act exactly like their parents, you've never had kids.

Amy,
It shouldn't take a foreigner to tell Americans about their constitution but it is beautifully simple, especially compared with such horrors as the French one (several hundred pages of legalese).

There does seem to be room for debate as to whether an individual state could amend its own constitution to outlaw religion, outlaw atheism, etc.

It all depends on whether you see the Federal Constitution as a top-down text: "you are only allowed to do what the Federal State tells you to do," or bottom up "those rights not listed here belong to the several States, or to individual people." I'm paraphrasing from memory here.

Under the First Amendment the US CONGRESS shall not pass laws abridging freedom of speech or offering support for a particular creed. It does not say that individual states can't.

Under the Tenth Amendment all powers not explicitly listed in the Constitution are in the hands of the individual states or individual people.

Of course the people who might use this argument to justify positive discrimination for Christianity in Georgia need to explain which constitutional clause or amendment authorised the establishment of the US Air Force as an independent entity (used to be part of the US Army, which was fine), or which parts authorised the Drug Enforcement Agency and the whole "War on Drugs" (open and shut: it's a matter for the states, unless a Prohibition Amendment is carried). States most certainly are allowed to legalise dope in the absence of a federal constitutional clause to stop them.

One problem is that if to take an implausible example, Iowa's legislature decided to become a Sharia Law State, I'm not convinced (apart from keeping slavery illegal) that there is much the Federal government could do about it.

Georgia is most certainly allowed to "trample on the Constitution". It's the FBI and the US Congress that should not be.

Amy,
How is legislated secularism any better than legislated religion. I'm an avowed agnostic/Deist, but I am just as uncomfortable with the government forcing people to follow certain religious precepts as with the government forbidding innocuous religious practices, such as wearing headscarves.

A.Clarke -

Most, if not all, of the original Bill of Rights have been incorporated by all 50 states, either on their own or by operation of the 14th Amendment's due process guarantees since the 60s. I believe the only rights not fully incorporated are the Third Amendment's guarantees against quartering soldiers (also the least litigated amendment in US history!) and the Sixth Amendment's requirement for a unanimous 12 person jury criminal conviction. The First Amendment was one of the first to be incorporated back in 1925 (the Gitlow decision).

There are plenty of reasons as to why Iowa couldn't become a Sharia state. First and foremost would be Amy's favorite branch of the First Amendment - the establishment clause would prevent such a regime. As would the 12th, 13th, and 14th Amendments as well as our various Civil Rights and Voting Acts. Not to mention the Commercie Clause's broad influence as well.

LYT - I'm not attempting to foster any kind of anti-Muslim fear. I'm just talking about the pure numbers of future generations that will be required to maintain the French social security system. I wish I had as much faith as you did in the next generation of Islamic fundamentalists, but the pervasive theocratic regimes in the Middle East sadly temper any such hopes.

Mo:

I agree.


This morning I got pissed about some rabid athiest in SF(?) sueing to get a Korean War memorial removed (destroyed) from a public park merely because it was a cross.


Why? The jackass claims it violates the first amendment.


So, let's look at that amendment:


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.




Congress was not involved, there was no law involved, no establishing of a religion was involved. Wherein is the violation?


Some think that phrase means respecting as in honoring. How about respecting as in pertaining to?


Some think it means an establishment as in a business or organization, but how about as in the establishing of a state sponsered religion?


Both of the latter interpretations make more sense, particularly considering the times they were written.


Rabid fundamentalism is loathsome, regardless of it being religious or athiest.

I'm on deadline, so I'll have to let Thomas Jefferson speak for me:

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state'...is absolutely essential in a free society." - Thomas Jefferson

Umm... since when are the Ten Commandments a "historical document"? The Constitution, yes. The Magna Carta, yes. A "document" that some guy all alone on the top of a mountain said that god gave him? It's historical I guess. But I think including it with verifiable documents like the Constitution is a little ridiculous.

"Perhaps I've held a misconception all this time, but I don't think "Lady Justice" is wearing a nun suit."

Actually, she's wearing a strap-on.

Bend over, America!

America was built by the Christians. No other country has grown or been more prosperous than the good ole USA. People should be thankful that God sent the Christians here to build this country. We have been blessed, that's why everyone wants what the people work so hard for years ago. Where does everyone think the laws came from? Is everybody stupid. The Christian's made our laws based on the Ten Commandments. If people don't like the south especially Barrow County,then they can just go back to hell. If you don't feel the same then you didn't grow up here. We are the great great grandchildren of the Confederate Soldiers and we will not change for anyone. This is our home and we gave it to God and in the hands of Jesus a long time ago.

Angela, America was not built by the Christians.

Here's a page debunking that notion:

http://thewaronfaith.com/founding_fathers.htm

Why can I always count on the religion boosters for statements of nonthink? Perhaps because religion promotes it, as it's the only way for it to keep raking in the follower$?

Confederate soldiers, huh? So, if you're proud of that, you think slavery was a good thing?

Angela: In the future, engage brain before typing.

And our laws were not based on the 10 Commandments. Here's a link on that:

http://blondesense.blogspot.com/2005/03/are-10-commandments-basis-for-our-laws_04.html

How sad that you appear to use your brain cavity for storing peanut shells.

Thanks boys
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