The American convert to Islam in that video was like Louis Farrahan on steroids, but without the nifty bow tie. I loved seeing all those guys sticking their butts up in the air as they bent over to pray to Allah. Maybe if their wives could get their hands on some hefty strap-on dildos, the holy man wouldn't feel so strongly that "Allah created the woman deficient."

You guys are getting really militant.

Militant? Me? I'm a friggin' pansy, Crid. With a serious but harmless case of potty mouth.

Besides, the idiot in the video said that homos are dogs. Them's fightin' words.

Nothing's to stop it Amy.

We've already lost. The PC brigades that have taken over all aspects of life have declared that no culture is better or worse than any other, and therefore we should never fight against another culture that wants to assert itself - lest we not be diverse enough.

PC is the reason why we are still fighting in Iraq instead of having moved on to clear out the Islamists in Iran and Syria (which I believe was the intention from the get-go). We've become so concerned with how certain approved victim groups will respond to our actions that we've hamstrung our fighting forces.

And PC is the reason that Islamists are a protected species.

We've liberalled ourselves to death. The Islamists will show us what they think of diversity - as they slit our throats.

Dude, if someone wanted to make fun of you for saying that, maybe by exaggeration, where would they start?

No particular reason... Just curious.

I like you, Crid-- you're an equal-opportunity abuser!

Bad habit. Listen, things are really shitty, but there' not much point to saying we're screwed, especially since it's not true. We've spent the past millenium getting religion under control... This is a mop-up operation that could go on for another century, but there's no way we can lose. Humanity makes progress.... The outbreak of western slavery was extinguished within three or four centuries, right? Germ theory took hold almost instantly, and rescued generations from ancient sources of suffering. We've done some great things with women in recent decades.

Well, I personally haven't, but I read about a guy who did in a book once. Actually it was a magazine. Okay, it was really just a series of photographs.

The point is: Fatalism isn't helpful. There are a lot of clearheaded people who will resist militant Islam.

Sounds like rural Alabama.

We've done some great things with women in recent decades.

Me, too, but alas, more than a decade ago.

Well, I personally haven't, but I read about a guy who did in a book once. Actually it was a magazine. Okay, it was really just a series of photographs.

I also like teh pr0n.

The point is: Fatalism isn't helpful. There are a lot of clearheaded people who will resist militant Islam.

Agreed. I do think these posts of Amy's are very helpful in raising the awareness of clearheaded people to a potential problem to be alert for.

So when I meet a clearheaded person I'll be sure to send him or her here. =D

Sounds like rural Alabama.

Indeed, Jennifer! I grew up near Scary, Alabama, pop. 57.

(Ok, that's enough sass out of me today! Have some more coffee, Melissa...)

Cris -

It isn't fatalism, which would be saying there's nothing that CAN be done to stop it.

It's simple acknowledgement that nothing WILL be done. Western Civilization apparently has lost the will to live. And by default, whomever cares most wins.

I think something will be done, but not until a lot more people die.

PC might seem entrenched now, but that's because the costs aren't obvious to the average person. I don't think it will really take much for the gloves to come off. We've just lulled ourselves back to sleep, and become distracted by Iraq. That won't last forever - the Islamists won't let it. They'll have their all-put war, they'll insist on it.

"Dude, if someone wanted to make fun of you for saying that, maybe by exaggeration, where would they start?"

Crid -- was that a question to me? If so, I don't get it. could you rephrase, clarify? I'm going on very little sleep today.

No, it was for Brian, he seemed to think we were doomed. You're right, it's good to have a sharp ear for fightin' words.

Islamic extremism will be defeated in 20 years. It will just take a lot of hard work from a great number of unamed professionals. Like any marginalized (in its thinking) movement, it will be easy to disrupt their national and global impact.

Just have to replace the Bush method with a more subtle approach. Less Pentagon and more CIA and Department of Justice. Repair damaged alliances and forge some new ones. Research how Italy handled the Red Brigades and Germany's Red Army Faction. Denmark did one of the best covert operations during the 1970s and 80s when they feared a homegrown Red Brigade/R.A.F. group. Their version of MI-5 created its own pseudo communist party and publication. They attracted and monitored the harmless marxists-maoists along with the kooks who would be violent. Could the FBI set up a few Islamic cultural centers across the country??? Pull some agents off from active duty to study Islam and Arabic?

Here's what I wonder about "radical Islam": just how radical is it? How mainstream is this sort of thinking within Islam? How much power do people like this really wield? Are these people the Fred Phelpses of their religion -- reviled by most within it -- or are they more like Jerry Falwell, a powerful man with a large following and a decent mainstream reputation?

Debbie Schlussel is not someone I'd cite for authority. I've been very disappointed with her talent and work.

Two thoughts on why this kind of Islam will never come to dominate in the West.

1) Basically, our young people mostly like their freedoms to be educated, to booze, to fuck, etc. This culture just won't catch on with new generations in the west, something that's needed for it to be a real threat from inside our culture.

2) Western women won't have it. And their example will make it harder to control Muslim women.

Without these things, fundamentalists can't win here in the developed world. Sure, they'll be some nutballs running around shouting "Jihad" and all, but they'll lose in the long run because their ideology sucks and ours is better. It's hard to persuade people to join you when you see others being more successful and having more fun.

And now for something completely different-

Two "Best of Crid" nominees:

1) "Dude, if someone wanted to make fun of you for saying that, maybe by exaggeration, where would they start?"

2) "Well, I personally haven't, but I read about a guy who did in a book once. Actually it was a magazine. Okay, it was really just a series of photographs."

"Basically, our young people mostly like their freedoms to be educated, to booze, to fuck, etc."

The Dutch like these things as much as Americans, perhaps more. Same for the French and Scandanavians but they are having major problems with Islamization. A relatively small number of people willing to use violence can cow a much larger population. I think America has certain cultural strengths that will allow it to resist Islam more effectively than European countries but we should not be overly confident and underestimate the danger.

"Here's what I wonder about "radical Islam": just how radical is it? How mainstream is this sort of thinking within Islam?"

Find a few Islamic internet forums and ask. Perhaps Amy could do this and post the results of her conversations with "moderate" Muslims. (just an idea, might make for interesting reading)

Islamic societies seem more akin to a ghetto culture than a nurturing society. So I guess the question is: can a ghetto culture subsume the mainstream society next to it?

It is troubling that the jihadists use the West's inventions to further their destructive ends. Khomeini used cassette tapes to spread his revolution. Today's Khomeinis use the internet, modern phone lines, airliners, etc. First world productivity makes oil valuable, and this funds the koran readers leisure activities. Modern industial techniques give them the explosives and metallurgy to further their ends, while the jihadists contribute nothing, except an ideological fervor.

And the reason we should care what this ignorant, slovenly trull thinks, would be...?

She's a disgrace to her Islamic faith. Muslim? Absolutely. She has to be a Muslim. She is insisting that Barak Obama is a Muslim, because according to Muslim law (she claims, since she has never produced any evidence for this), "once a Muslim, always a Muslim."

So, who else would be holding someone to the tenants of Islamic belief except...a Muslim.

You see, in Christianity, to the best of my knowledge, we take sincere converts from all religions. We would never insist that a person is a Muslim, due to some (alleged) Muslim law that says you can't convert. Schlussel, inexplicably calls it "going back." Going back to what? We don't uphold Islamic rules, nor do we hold our converts to them because we don't adhere to the faith. It's that simple. Since Schlussel seems to think that Obama is bound by Islamic law, she must be a Muslim.

I think I will mail her a new prayer rug and a compass that points to Mecca, so she can do her 7 times a day prayer while facing Mecca. And also, it is traditional to break the fast with dates during the month of Ramadan. Perhaps I will send her a box during Ramadan this year.

And if you send her anything, a traditional Muslim greeting is "Peace be unto you." Please remember that if you send her any correspondence. We must be properly respectful of the beliefs of others, even if we don't adhere to them.

Muslims are not allowed to convert to other religions. Even if they were born into a Muslim family and never had a choice in the matter. The penalty for leaving Islam is execution. This is not some quaint rule from the middle ages this law is still enforced in several Muslim countries.

To which "ignorant, slovenly trull" are you referring?

What's a trull?

A 'trull' is a woman of loose morals. In sounds like a race from Star Trek, though, with big knobby chins.
I have to say, Crid is being awfully reasonable in this post.
No, Brian, we are not losing in Iraq due to Politically Correct hand-tying of our armed forces. We are losing becuase there was never a plan after we knocked out the army and deposed Saddam.

As Steve Grant wrote recently -

We already won in Iraq. It's not the war we're trying to win now, it's the peace, and the time to win it was three years ago. Instead, the administration initially alienated the Shi'ites by tapping Saddam's largely Sunni Ba'athists for service, then basically abandoning the Sunnis when this came out. The only group in Iraq still overtly siding with us, not that they're not disgruntled too, are the Kurds, partly because they're the weakest of the three major groups and have no one else to turn to.
There is, in fact, only one way to "win" in Iraq: we have to decide which group we want to be in charge of the country, and put them in charge.
Then kill everyone else.
Unless we kill everyone in Iraq who opposes us, which means killing their women and children and relatives down to the last living being as well, so that absolutely no one is left to pick up any fallen flags and renew the charge. In other words, genocide, which, international ramifications aside (even if it didn't result in a massive, rapid worldwide recruitment of anti-American terrorists, at minimum any influence we'd have in the Middle East would be shot for good, and probably in Europe as well), and despite various incidents in our history, is not how we see ourselves as a people. The only way to "win" in Iraq is to become in actuality the worst version of what many throughout the world have for the last fifty years or so claimed we were, and which we have kept insisting we're not. That's what we have to do to win.

Gary Brechter, War Nerd, said the same thing, not quite as nicely, but hey, that's his shtick. I'm still unclear on how we're going to get the 'Islamists' out of Iran and Syria, both Muslim countries, when we can't run Iraq. Get them where, and replace them with who? Whom?

Winston writes:

Muslims are not allowed to convert to other religions. Even if they were born into a Muslim family and never had a choice in the matter. The penalty for leaving Islam is execution. This is not some quaint rule from the middle ages this law is still enforced in several Muslim countries.

That's the very point. If Debbie Schlussel (the "ignorant slovenly trull" I am referring to) were a Christian, she would acknowledge a sincere convert to Christianity, and call him a Christian. Since she insists that Obama cannot leave Islam and is a Muslim, she must be a Muslim herself. Only a Muslim would uphold Islamic law regarding conversion. A Christian would acknowledge a person's conversion as refer to said convert as a Christian.

A trull is a prostitute of the low-grade variety. Think ten-dollar, disease-ridden whore.

And regarding the guy in the video - Yes, he's a poisonous toad, who should live out his years in a ghetto with those of similar minds, and never come close to profane secular humanists like myself.
But no, I'm not worried about his train of thought infecting the U.S., because there simply isn't enough support in the population for it. Well, those thoughts in Muslim clothing - Fundamentalist Muslims may want to throw gay men off mountains, and are doing so when they can in some Muslim countries, but Lena has a lot more to fear from a bunch of white guys with baseball bats in a pickup truck , who would identify themselves as 'Christian.'
I currently live in South Carolina. As a straght white guy, it's a fine place to be. If I wake up gay tomorrow morning, (after styling my hair and putting out the recycling), I'm burning rubber to Seattle, DC, or New York. I'm not worried about Muslims here. I WOULD be worried about churchgoers of another, Old Testamenty stripe.

There are plenty of Christians, again using that word loosely, who would be pleased as punch to make Christianity THE worldwide religion, and are not shy in saying so.
They also very definately feel that women should be subordinate to men, are inferior to men, and should only be having sex for purposes of procreation.

Re starting wars based on religion, Bush takes his marching orders directly from the Big Guy, or so he says.

> being awfully reasonable...

Somethings wrong. Apparently there's been some kind of a mistake, misperception, misunderstanding...

> not that they're not disgruntled
> too, are the Kurds,

Heaven forbid anyone should ever be disgruntled. Millions, millions of Kurds had their lives and nascent democracy defended by the no-fly zones, sustained at great cost and risk (chiefly and most loyally) by the United States. This support came late, and they remain the largest ethnic minority to not have a country... So they're a little cranky. Everybody's a little cranky.

> have no one else to turn to.

What could you possibly be trying to say? Who do you want them to turn to? Cat, who should they HAVE to turn to?

> There is, in fact,

From you, two commas in four words warn of oncoming frogwash....

> Then kill everyone else.

Thanks for your analysis. Secretary Rice will be in touch.

> ten-dollar, disease-ridden

Patrick, do you like anyone as much as you hate people? Is there another blog where you periodically deliver comments of disproportionate, congestive LOVE?

They weren't my two commas, they were Grant's. I didn't say that the Kurds' best bet wasn't to side with us, I'm saying that our actions left them with little choice.
Also, it is/was Grant's analysis, I just happen to agree with it, I found it well phrased, and didn't want to plagarize. Besides Brian's idea of shipping off (where?) all 'Islamists,' presumably in cattle cars, I don't see any other plans for victory in Iraq, never mind the rest of the region.

Patrick's just reporting a definition, though both he and I were off; 'trull' is apparently any female prostitute, 'skrull' is a villanous alien race from Marvel comics. Was right about the chins, though.

Ya big girl's blouse, you're just angry that someone found you reasonable! Nyah, nyah, Crid was reasonable! Now come get a hug.

Nevah!

Crid writes: "Patrick, do you like anyone as much as you hate people?"

Crid, your standing as the board's premiere hate-monger is quite safe thanks. And at least if I actually hate someone (which I don't), you can be sure it will be for who they are, not what they are.

As opposed to you, who resorts to ageist insults when referring to say, Veteran reporter Helen Thomas. Or decides to smear all gays based upon what one homosexual happens to have said about Monica Lewinsky.

No, Crid, I have not mastered your inimitable style of broadbrushing entire categories of people based upon the actions or comments or one person. Now, run along, Crid. Your sheet's ready at the cleaners.

Right, but who do you LIKE?

"But no, I'm not worried about his train of thought infecting the U.S., because there simply isn't enough support in the population for it."

After another few decades of Muslim immigration and recruitment, well see. Besides, this way of thinking doesn't have to be the majority view to impose itself on everyone else. Islam can dominate a society even if few of that's society's members are Muslims.

"There are plenty of Christians, again using that word loosely, who would be pleased as punch to make Christianity THE worldwide religion, and are not shy in saying so.
They also very definately feel that women should be subordinate to men, are inferior to men, and should only be having sex for purposes of procreation."

Many Christian's views of women are out of the 1950s. However Muslim views of women are from the 1590s. Simply no comparison.

I often hear the "Christians are just as bad" argument. It's not necessary to defend Christians to realize that pious Muslims are much worse. Islam is in a class by itself. NO other modern religion has the kind of supremacist ideology that Islam does.

It's important to remember that converting people is not Islam's primary goal. It is the worldwide establishment of Islamic law.

I'm certainly not defending the kind of Muslim mindset showcased here.
I'm still failing to see how a Muslim minority, making up a small part of a population, can 'dominate' that society, if by 'dominate' we mean write and enforce laws and conduct. This is, frankly, a country currently hostile to Muslim thought; nobody's getting elected on the 'Sharia Now!' ticket. How would these Muslims get their views codified?

Yes, I would definitely rather be a woman in a fundamentalist Christian country, than a woman in a fundamentalist Christian country. I believe my point about homosexuals still stands, however.
Christianity, depending on who's interpreting it, is every bit as supremacist as Islam - although Amy is correct when she says, the Western world has few leaders, excepting Bush, who seek to carry the Christ-torch to other lands.

And I happen to know what Patrick DOES like - he likes to walk through poison ivy without breaking out, then point and laugh as those following him succumb to itching and scratching.

"I'm still failing to see how a Muslim minority, making up a small part of a population, can 'dominate' that society, if by 'dominate' we mean write and enforce laws and conduct".

a) At least 2 terrorist suspects fled the UK dressed in a Hijab - safe in the knowledge that Customs rarely check who is actually in there, for fear of being accused of bigotry and/or racism.

b) When a Muslim teacher - who didn't wear a Hijab for her initial interview for a schoolteacher's job - insisted on wearing one every day while teaching, she was suspended. She immediately (at taxpayer's cost) invoked "Human Rights" legislation and - although the decision was she just couldn't do her job properly while hidden behind the Hijab, she still won £1000 or so in compensation for hurt feelings.

Shortly after - maybe within a week - a lawyer insisted on wearing a Hijab into court. The Judge sent her home because he couldn't clearly hear what she was saying and she refused to remove the clothing from in front of her mouth. He was soon overruled by a higher (more PC?) authority, and the lawyer wore the Hijab next day and every day since.

That's how the minority come to dominate society - change the conduct and sooner or later the laws follow.

"I'm still failing to see how a Muslim minority, making up a small part of a population, can 'dominate' that society, if by 'dominate' we mean write and enforce laws and conduct".

a) At least 2 terrorist suspects fled the UK dressed in a Hijab - safe in the knowledge that Customs rarely check who is actually in there, for fear of being accused of bigotry and/or racism.

b) When a Muslim teacher - who didn't wear a Hijab for her initial interview for a schoolteacher's job - insisted on wearing one every day while teaching, she was suspended. She immediately (at taxpayer's cost) invoked "Human Rights" legislation and - although the decision was she just couldn't do her job properly while hidden behind the Hijab, she still won £1000 or so in compensation for hurt feelings.

Shortly after - maybe within a week - a lawyer insisted on wearing a Hijab into court. The Judge sent her home because he couldn't clearly hear what she was saying and she refused to remove the clothing from in front of her mouth. He was soon overruled by a higher (more PC?) authority, and the lawyer wore the Hijab next day and every day since.

That's how the minority come to dominate society - change the conduct and sooner or later the laws follow.

"I'm still failing to see how a Muslim minority, making up a small part of a population, can 'dominate' that society, if by 'dominate' we mean write and enforce laws and conduct".

a) At least 2 terrorist suspects fled the UK dressed in a Hijab - safe in the knowledge that Customs rarely check who is actually in there, for fear of being accused of bigotry and/or racism.

b) When a Muslim teacher - who didn't wear a Hijab for her initial interview for a schoolteacher's job - insisted on wearing one every day while teaching, she was suspended. She immediately (at taxpayer's cost) invoked "Human Rights" legislation and - although the decision was she just couldn't do her job properly while hidden behind the Hijab, she still won £1000 or so in compensation for hurt feelings.

Shortly after - maybe within a week - a lawyer insisted on wearing a Hijab into court. The Judge sent her home because he couldn't clearly hear what she was saying and she refused to remove the clothing from in front of her mouth. He was soon overruled by a higher (more PC?) authority, and the lawyer wore the Hijab next day and every day since.

That's how the minority come to dominate society - change the conduct and sooner or later the laws follow.

Crid writes: "Right, but who do you LIKE?"

Crid, I'm not going to play your game, okay? I'm not going to sit here and rattle off names of people that I like or love, to be dragged into defending myself against your offensive suggestion that I must hate everybody. You obviously have already made up your mind (which you pretty much did when you realized I was gay, anyway).

Damn, you've caught on to my treachery.

BTW, if anyone saw "Children of Men", raise your hand. Deaf guy has questions.

There's a big difference between suing to wear a hijab, or a crucifix, or a chicken suit, oneself, and compelling all of society to wear one. I see the cases you cited as more akin to the 'woman spills coffee on self, sues McDonalds' than the path to everyone wearing a hajib.
You can, let's call it, self-express in any number of ways, and most people don't care. When you start dictating how others dress, here in the US anyway, and I'll bet in GB, people will care very much.

Hey, nobody told me Patrick was gay. Are y'all meeting in the clubhouse without me again?

"You can, let's call it, self-express in any number of ways, and most people don't care. When you start dictating how others dress, here in the US anyway, and I'll bet in GB, people will care very much".

People do care very much already - trouble is, we have a Government who cannot/will not respond to those concerns.

Areas of some cities are a foreign landscape and some are virtual no-go areas. Immigrants who speak no English cost vast quantities of time and money in aid to fix/mitigate this. Others won't learn English because they have absolutely no desire to integrate with the British population - they conform to the the norm in the original (and still regarded as home) country

Foreigners caught in or entering into the country illegally know that can't be deported without a legal process lasting years - more if they have family here as well. The list goes on.

But you try speaking out about this and you're labelled racist and a hate-monger. So, there is no debate. There is only a sense that strangers are invading by stealth, 24/7 and 356 days a year.

Shameful site and shameful rasist, hateful comments. Here you show your real face. You would be afraid to make such comments about certain racial and religious groups protected by law in your countries, but here you show who you really are.

You are really no better than that bearded fanatic on the picture. You use him to judge a religion you know nothing about, you use your ugly and primitive stereotypes to judge 1 billion people !!!

There it is again! Judgement!

You might come here more often, "NormalPerson." It's not like I give anybody who believes, without evidence, in god, a pass. It's just that very few Jews or Christians or astrologers want us dead because we don't believe in their shit...and quite a few Muslims do. Watch the video, dimwit. Furthermore, Islam isn't a race, so it's impossible to be "racist" against Muslims. Oh, sorry, make that "rasist."

We have freedom of speech in this country at the moment, not Sharia law. I'd like to keep it that way.

And FYI, again, watch the video. It isn't "stereotypes" I'm using, but ugly remarks from powerful Muslims themselves, out of a mosque in Britain that supposedly promotes interfaith relations. Kill 'em if they don't think your way? Now there's an interfaith relation!

Note that I was not rude with you at all. You showed what a failure you are by attacking me personally - someone you don't know.

First of all noone wants you dead because you don't believe etc. As I said you and others on this board are fanatics not any better than that bearded man. I am a Muslim and I personally don't give a shit what you believe.

NormalPerson, can you explain how Amy's response to your post is a personal attack? Your response seems very emotional-is it because Amy is a woman and is speaking her mind?

And what about your original post? When I read that, I interpret it as a personal attack on Amy, especially the comment that she is exactly like the bearded guy. I personally like her fashion sense far more than his.

You showed what a failure you are by attacking me personally - someone you don't know.

Sorry, was I using invisible ink that only you and I can see? Do point out the "personal attack" on you in what I wrote.

Chris, just above, has it exactly right: You attacked me, in saying I was just like the bearded guy. And if you're a Muslim, why aren't you more concerned about what these guys and those of their ilk are saying and doing than the fact that I link to it on my blog, and find it (gasp!) barbaric that people want to kill me because I don't think like they do.

For the record, all god belief, in the lack of evidence there is a god, is primitive and ridiculous. The fact that Muslims are killing people all over the world in the name of their religion and you're attacking me instead of those Muslims...hello? Were you hibernating from 9/10/01 to about now? Oblivious to attacks in Spain and London?

Why am I a "fanatic" for having a problem with people who think it's just great to beat women, kill homos, and off the rest of us? That they happen to be Muslim is your problem, not mine.

"Do point out the "personal attack" on you in what I wrote."

You called me a dimwit. Maybe where you come from this is considered a dignified way of addressing people, not in my world.

"Your response seems very emotional-is it because Amy is a woman and is speaking her mind?"

I didn't even know I was speaking with a woman, thanks for pointing that out. Don't you think it is primitive to label someone based on your stereotypes? To me sex of the bigoted bully makes no difference. A bully is a bully.

Don't bother responding. I am not planning to return to this dump again. I can't believe this site was promoted on 60 minutes. What a shame.

And now you're proving me right.

You said something dumb, so I called you a dimwit. I didn't say you had ugly hair.

I'm a no-bullshit kind of girl. If that affronts your dignity, good. It's a start. What should be even more of an affront, as I mentioned before, is the fact that a growing number of people are using your brand of primitive and irrational belief in god to justify murdering and enslaving the rest of us.

Is it bigotry to point out the FACT that these people are actually advocating this? You really are a dimwit.

NormalPerson missed an opportunity to show us what 'moderate Muslims' are all about. A response like, 'I apologize for the behaviour of this man. Most Muslims do not believe in any of the negative and hateful statements made in this video.' This would open a dialogue and promote some kind of communication. The fact that he never once disputed any of the statements made by the gent in the video, leads one to believe he didn't have any problems with these ideas.

He also doesn't see the irony in his hasty offense at Amy's so called insults ('dimwit'?) Why is it OK to kill gays, and say that women are inferior? I guess only NormalPerson has feelings that can be hurt! But he took his ball and ran home to his mommy, so I guess we will never know what his response would be to this...

"BTW, if anyone saw "Children of Men", raise your hand. Deaf guy has questions."

I saw it Crid. What's your question?

When Theo goes to Jasper's country house for the second time, what's going on? Why are they zoned out with all the Quietus packages lying open? Caine's accent was so thick I couldn't make it out. Also, why did Julian's partners want her killed?

The counter-culture group led by Julian are the 'fish'. Under Julian's leadership, they were trying to get the pregnant woman to the Human Project. One of the guys in the fish was more interested in keeping the pregnant woman, because of the power it would give him and the group, that is why they killed Julian.

Jasper knew that the fish with the guy as leader would kill him because he wouldn't tell them where pregnant woman was, so I think he killed his wife before they showed up, and then of course, he got killed.

Does that make sense?

The Julian part does, but I mean the earlier visit, where Theo thinks Jasper's dea and pulls the hair off his face. Jasper gives a three-sentence explanation that was all just cockney cough...

I don't remember what Jasper said, I vaguely remember that Jasper was just messing with him, and he thought it was funny to make Theo think him and the wife were dead.
Sorry that's all I've got. If you want, you could go to http://us.imdb.com/, and read through the user comments for the movie. Some of them get pretty detailed, so you might find your answer there.

Thanks! Appreciate it.

Stop blaming and hating Muslims, because they are better than you. You never seen a Muslim woman crying or complaining about her religion. Why should you. Please answer these questions....
Who killed thousands of aboriginal people in North America
and Australia in order to occupy their lands and properties?

Who killed millions of South Americans?

Who killed millions of human beings in World War I?

Who killed 6 million Jews during World War II?

Who killed 2 million Polish Christians in World War II?

Who killed 6 million Chinese during the invasion of China?

Who killed 2 million Cambodian during the civil war?

Who killed more than 2 million Filipinos during invasion of
Philippines?

Who killed more than half million Tibetans during the last 6
decades?

Who killed more than 2 million Vietnamese during the Vietnam
War?

Who dropped chemical and biological bombs on Vietnam?

Who dropped nuclear bombs on Japan and killed thousands of
people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Who killed more than 2 million African Christians in Rwanda,
Sierra Leone, Burundi and Congo within the last two decades?

Who made more than 9.5 million human beings refugees in
Africa?

Who is killing and confiscating lands from White farmers in
Zimbabwe?

Who invented the nuclear, biological and chemical bombs?

Who sells the most sophisticated bombs and the best killing
machines to the world?

Who killed hundreds of blacks in America and did not
consider them as human beings until 1960s.

Who are White Supremacists?

Who did not consider women as persons until 1940s?

I am purposely not asking you about the killings of millions of Muslims in Bosnia, Kossovo, Chechnya, Kashmir, Palestine, Russian Federation, Iraq, Afghanistan, China, India, etc.

Can you please prove that the most of the above holocaust and genocide of human race were not caused by the people who claimed to be Christians? If you dont know the answers to the questions please go to any library, yes and most of these crimes where not commited too long ago.
If this cant save you nothing would.

Look, I'm an atheist, and I think the primitive belief in god is the source of much that is shitty in the world, and I think Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all backward for that. But, as Wafa Sultan noted on Al Jazeera, you don't see Jews blowing up German restaurants, do you? There are bad people out there of every stripe. But, only in Islam do people, today, right now, preach murdering other people in the name of their religion. That's primitive and barbaric.

As for not seeing Muslim women crying and complaining -- it's hard for them to do that when they're been brutally murdered in an "honor killing," now isn't it?

Stop blaming and hating Muslims, because they are better than you.

My standards for living: Be kind, live ethically, live rationally, and "leave the campground better than you found it."

Apparently, in your twisted mind, that's not quite up to the moral greatness of this shit the guy's preaching:

"We Muslims have been ordered to do brainwashing..." "Allah created the woman deficient"

"If she doesn't wear a hijab we hit her"

"Take the homosexual man and throw him off the mountain..."

"You have to live like a state within a state then you take over..."

"The pinnacle, the crest, the summit of Islam..is jihad."

This is evil, primitive shit, and anyone who advocates it is barbaric, backward, and unfit to live in civilization.