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The Problem With Islam
Bill Warner, the director of the Center for the Study of Political Islam (CSPI) talks to Front Page's Jamie Glazov about the absence of "the Golden Rule" in Islam:

Let’s examine the ethical basis of our civilization. All of our politics and ethics are based upon a unitary ethic that is best formulated in the Golden Rule:

Treat others as you would be treated.

The basis of this rule is the recognition that at one level, we are all the same. We are not all equal. Any game of sports will show that we do not have equal abilities. But everyone wants to be treated as a human being. In particular, we all want to be equal under the law and be treated as social equals. On the basis of the Golden Rule—the equality of human beings—we have created democracy, ended slavery and treat women and men as political equals. So the Golden Rule is a unitary ethic. All people are to be treated the same. All religions have some version of the Golden Rule except Islam.

FP: So how is Islam different in this context?

Warner: The term “human being” has no meaning inside of Islam. There is no such thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if it advances Islam.

There is no such thing as a universal statement of ethics in Islam. Muslims are to be treated one way and unbelievers another way. The closest Islam comes to a universal statement of ethics is that the entire world must submit to Islam. After Mohammed became a prophet, he never treated an unbeliever the same as a Muslim. Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.

By the way, this dualistic ethic is the basis for jihad. The ethical system sets up the unbeliever as less than human and therefore, it is easy to kill, harm or deceive the unbeliever.

The CSPI Method for understanding Islam, as quoted on their site (with literature for sale to make Islam accessible to the ordinary non-Islamic person):

1. Islam is a religion and a political system. Only the political system is of interest to non-Muslims, since it determines how Islam treats you. Study the religion of Islam if you want to become a Muslim.

2. All of Islam is based upon the Koran, the Sira (life of Mohammed), and Hadith (Traditions of Mohammed)-the Islamic Trilogy.

3. The entire political doctrine is found in the Trilogy. By reading the Trilogy, you will understand Islam's actions and words.

Posted by aalkon at February 12, 2007 1:49 PM


Where do I sign up to get all the good stuff Islam offers?

When I suggest Islam is an inherent enemy to societies that value the rule of law, the rejoinder is that the vast majority of muslims are peacable, law abiding, and against the radical jihadists that propagate terrorism. I don't see the "moderate" muslims as working all that hard to undo the work of their brethren.

Posted by: doombuggy at February 12, 2007 3:46 AM

I don't either. Furthermore, when Muslims talk about the great life non-Muslims have in a Muslims society, don't believe them. Instead, look up dhimmitude.

Also, a Muslim who converts to another religion has committed an offense punishable by death. If Obama truly was a Muslim early on, he may be in some trouble.

ارتداد, irtidād or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.

All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate may be put to death, according to some schools, or imprisoned, according to others.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 12, 2007 6:14 AM

Here's more on apostasy in Islam from dhimmiwatch:

“A Somali living in Yemen since 1994, Mohammed Omer Haji, converted to Christianity two years ago and adopted the name "George." He was imprisoned in January, 2000 and reportedly beaten and threatened for two months by Yemeni security police, who tried to persuade him to renounce his conversion to Christianity. After he was re-arrested in May, he was formally put on trial in June for apostasy, under article 259 of Yemen's criminal law. Haji's release came seven weeks after he was given a court ultimatum to renounce Christianity and return to Islam, or face execution as an apostate. Apostasy is a capital offence under the Muslim laws of "sharia" enforced in Yemen. After news of the case broke in the international press, Yemeni authorities halted the trial proceedings against Haji. He was transferred on July 17 to Aden's Immigration Jail until resettlement could be finalized by the UNHCR, under which Haji had formal refugee status. One of the politicians who tabled a motion in July 2000 in the British House of Commons was David Atkinson. “Early Day Motion on Mohammed Omer Haji. That this House deplores the death penalty which has been issued from the Aden Tawahi Court in Yemen for the apostasy of the Somali national Mohammed Omer Haji unless he recants his Christian faith and states that he is a Muslim before the judge three times on Wednesday 12th July; deplores that Mr Haji was held in custody for the sole reason that he held to the Christian faith and was severely beaten in custody to the point of not being able to walk; considers it a disgrace that UNHCR officials in Khormaksar stated they were only able to help him if he was a Muslim; and calls on the British Government and international colleagues to make representations immediately at the highest level in Yemen to ensure Mr Haji's swift release and long-term safety and for the repeal of Yemen's barbaric apostate laws.”

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 12, 2007 6:17 AM

doombuggy, you make a good point I have heard before. When countless atrocities are committed in the name of Allah, all we get from moderate Muslims is a collective shrug and a mild insistence that they themselves are not violent. When someone in Denmark draws a cartoon, Muslims around the world react by protesting and rioting. There has been in our time no Islamic equivalent to Ghandi, or Martin Luther King, Jr. to truly represent Islam to the world as a peaceful religion.

I disagree with Bill Warner's assertion that Christianity is responsible for democracy and the end of slavery. For the first 1700 years, Christians were perfectly content with empires and monarchies; it took secular Enlightment thinkers to bring about democracy in the western world. Many Christians also used the Bible to justify slavery.

I did a quick check. According to wikipedia, there are three quotes from Islam that may be equivalent to the Golden Rule:

"None of you is truly a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." (Saying of Muhammad in the Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi 13)
"God helps His servant as long as His servant is helping his brother." {Saying of Muhammad}
"Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you." — Muhammad, The Farewell Sermon.

The first two sound like they may apply only to fellow Muslims. The third quote sounds pretty clear, but it doesn't stand up to the dozens of quotes from Muhammed in which he very clearly does call for violence and discrimination against non-believers.

Posted by: beansworth at February 12, 2007 6:41 AM

In the past, Christianity was no walk in the park for unbelievers either. But, these days, Muslims are the ones who are still stuck in the dark ages.

Furthermore, regarding those references you pulled suggesting there is a concept of The Golden Rule in you really think they mean to consider the Jew or Christian (or atheist) a brother?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 12, 2007 6:50 AM

The one movement that every Americans should fight against is the pernicious institutionalized p.c. multicultural diversity enforcers who are just as dangerous as the Islamic fundies.

Muslim religious moderate Reza Aslan had a recent debate against Sam Harris at the LA Public Library. Aslan would state that in all his travels in the Middle East. He has never met any kooks, nut bags and terrorists. Then he would continue the same old spiel on how a majority of Muslims are peaceful and nonviolent.

Harris was too much of a nice guy to challenge him on that issue by stating where is this vast 'reform' movement within the Middle East? Measures that would allow religious diversity in various Middle Eastern nations and equal rights for women? Does the media fail to cover the Arab Street demonstrations for these particular reforms?

At one point of the debate Reza Aslan made the inaccurate statement that Jews and Muslims lived in peace prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948. Sam Harris made a statement that it wasn't true, but left out the details of the various Arab massacres of Jews in Palestine before 1948:

1. The Jerusalem-Arab Riots of 1920
2. The Jaffa Riots of 1921
3. The Arab riots in Hebron/Safad 1929
4. The Tiberius Riots of 1938

Lets not forget the Grand Mufti (Mohammad Amin al-Husayni) of Palestine open support of Nazi Germany. Negotiating an SS division composed of Muslims with Heinrich Himmler. These SS units served in the Balkans during WWII. These are not the activities of a peaceful and tolerant religious leader. You can read more on the Mufti's activities with the Third Reich and the birth of the Palestinian resitance after 1948:

Reza Aslan is actually like other religious moderates (similar debating styles), but more dangerous. Aslan does a tremendous disservice to the public by portraying this false image of Islam as a warm, fuzzy and harmless faith. This image is further expanded by the p.c. multicultural diversity enforcers found in various western nations. It's the old psych. technique of pretending the false image so many times that it actually becomes real to the person spreading the false belief.

There are moderates within Islam, but they are not as outspoken, unless a western law enforcement or intelligence agencies places special scrutiny on Muslims. Then you can't keep them away from the cameras screaming anti-Muslim bias or accusations of racism to any critic of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism.

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2007 7:02 AM

Speaking of spreading falsehoods, can somebody in the know please explain the concept of "taquiyya"?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 12, 2007 7:48 AM

Al-Takeyya is a policy whereby a Muslim may lie, deceive or omit critical truths if it promotes the spreading of Islam AND the conquest of the non-Muslim world.

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2007 8:01 AM

The prophet Mohammed has give numerous examples of Al-Takeyya. Here are 2 cases:

1. The murder of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf of the tribe Banu al-Nudair. (Jewish) He supported the Quarishites campaign against Mohammed's followers. Also, Kaab pissed off Mohommed by reciting lewd poetry to various Muslim women. The prophet requested volunteers to kill Kaab because he 'Harmed Allah and His Apostle." But there was a problem... the Banu al Nudair tribe was very powerful and Mohammed didn't have enough power to wipe out the tribe. So a Muslim Ibn Muslima volunteered to commit the righteous murder as long as the Prophet gave him permission to lie. Ibn Muslima was given the green light and went to Kaab. He told fabricated stories on dissention among the Muslim ranks. Especially towards the leadership style of Mohammed. Once Ibn Muslima gained Kaab's trust and lured him away from the safety of his tribal home. Kaab was found murdered the next morning.

2. Another story involves the murder of Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. He was also raising an army to fight against the prophet. So Mohammed ordered Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. Same procedure as before with Ibn Muslima on lying for the cause of Islam. So Abdullah Ibn Anis lied that he was from the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban confronted Abdullah Ibn Anis and asked what tribe he was from? Abdullah replied the Khazaa tribe and requested to join Shaaban's army against Mohammed.

So Shaaban lowered his guard and allowed Abdullah to walk with him to his tent. Abdullah regaled stories about Mohammed's heretical teachings, dishonoring the Arab Patriarchs and causing disharmony on the Arabian pennisula. When they arrived at the tent... Shaaban's other companions left for the night. While everyone was asleep Abdullah snuck into Shaaban's tent and severed his head.

Abdullah Ibn Anis took the severed head as a trophy to the Prophet. Mohammed when seeing the head said: Aflaha al- wajho (Your face is triumphant) Abdullah responded: Aflaha wajhoka, ye rasoul Allah (It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant)

These are just 2 historical cases for Al-Takeyya. Here are the passages in the Quaran that justify Al-Takeyya:

"Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89

"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16:106

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2007 8:48 AM

> except under compulsion

That's an interesting one. Prager used to say there were three things that were never permitted in Judaisim: Rape/incest, killing someone at the behest/moral direction of another, and denying your belief in God. Apparently the Quran says you do what ya gotta do. Like Scientology, it authorizes assholes.

Posted by: Crid at February 12, 2007 6:23 PM

I work with a couple of moderate Muslims (one from Cairo, the other from Tehran). They both know I'm a wanton sodomite, and they still love me.

Posted by: Lena at February 12, 2007 8:44 PM

Two very 20th Century tyrants Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin made similar comments on how the perfect National Socialist or Communist would need the fanatical zeal of the Islamists. Not the Quakers, Amish, Tibetan Buddhists or Jainists, but Islamists.

Jews during the Middle Ages would refer to Muhammed as the 'ha-meshuggah,' the madman or possessed. It usually refers to nut jobs who think they are prophets. Of course the expression has expanded its meaning over the centuries to mean somone is just nuts.

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2007 9:19 PM

Lena, this question is NOT being asked because they love you... It's being asked because you call them "moderate muslims." What are they like? Do they do four-times-a-day prostration, or just the prayers with the palms up?

> the fanatical zeal of the Islamists

Knowing little about it, this seems like a faith that accepts all the faults of human nature as good fuel. Distrust, sex tensions, laziness, fear. The best churches ask that you do things you don't want to do... Be nice to old people, keep your pants zipped, etc

Posted by: Crid at February 12, 2007 9:31 PM

They both starve themselves during Ramadan. I think the Egyptian one prays on her knees quite a bit, behind closed doors. (Oh, what a drag it must be.) Still, there's plenty to like about them. I enjoy their company. And I've grown to love Persian food.

Posted by: Lena at February 12, 2007 9:41 PM

I agree Lena.

In another post. I mentioned that many of my Arab friends who are secular-moderate Muslims respect me a great deal, because of my atheism. I have no personal religious agendas to convert them.

Most of the Muslims and Arabs in the US come from the best and the brightest of the various Middle Eastern nations. The more educated, hard working and open minded. Well, they came to the Great Satan. So that means they are open minded in my book.

Unlike the majority of unassimilated Muslim populations of western Europe. They are more isolated and radicalized. My guess the next attempted Al Qaeda operation will be conducted by a cell from western Europe, just like the 9/11 cell was from Hamburg, Germany. Some key people believe there are no sleeper cells in the USA. Just the loser wannabees that the FBI nabs every few months with their planted informants.

My hostility and criticism is towards the literal interpretation of Islam and other faiths.

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2007 10:11 PM

The best churches ask that you do things you don't want to do... Be nice to old people, keep your pants zipped, etc

Astonishingly, I manage all that without church.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 13, 2007 12:03 AM

Lena is very loveable, but the problem is with Muslims who don't know "sodomites" or any of us infidels. Muslims raised in Muslim societies, especially, are sometimes (or often?) taught to hate Jews, homosexuals, and "the infidel" in general.

Here's a bit on how they're raised to hate Jews -- and how personal experience changed a Lebanese woman's mind. An excerpt:

As a Maronite Lebanese I went to a Christian private school. The pervasive national animosity toward the Jews affected us there to the extent that our Bibles did not include nor did we study the Old Testament. We didn't even know it was a part of the bible. We were told that the Torah is the enemy's book. We were young. We didn't know any better. These were our teachers. We respected them and trusted them. Had I not had the opportunity for an up-close and personal experience with the Israelis, I would have had nothing by which to judge or compare what I was being told by my society. My eyes were opened when I spent 22 days in a hospital in northern Israel in the early 1980's. I watched in disbelief as Israeli doctors treated my mother wounded by an artillery shell before he treated the wounded Israeli soldier lying next to her. They treated Lebanese Muslims and Palestinian militia fighters on a par with wounded IDF soldiers. I was shocked that this enemy, hated by the Arabs, treated us all with utmost courtesy, compassion, and respect. It was a transforming experience countering the lies and all the propaganda that I had been indoctrinated in as a child.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 13, 2007 4:41 AM

you're like a broken record

Posted by: Miranda at February 13, 2007 7:10 AM

Those aren't my words.

Is she lying about her experience, do you think?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 13, 2007 7:54 AM

It seems we have a little deception going on here.

Imelda -- IP address -- is also Chester and Forest and Miranda -- all of whom posted nasty remarks just moments ago (on this entry and others).

Not a surprise, since she mainly comes here because she's angry that I dare speak critically of Islam; say, of Islam's principle of taquiyya: deception that serves the cause.

Imelda, wouldn't your time be better spent combating the Islam-advocated violence by Muslims against other Muslims and the rest of us --rather than criticizing me for coming down against it? And making little sniping remarks like the ones you've made in the past 10 minutes? If you continue to post under multiple identities, I'll ban your sleazy ass.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at February 13, 2007 8:32 AM

Oh, please, Amy, let her and her invisible friends stay. In the other thread, they were a neverending source of amusement!

Posted by: Brenda at February 13, 2007 10:00 AM

'the problem is with Muslims who don't know "sodomites" or any of us infidels.'

I agree. And I'd add that the "infidels" who don't interact with and come to know some of the non-fanatic Muslims out there can also be a problem. Not a problem for me personally. I just find it unfortunate when people choose stereotypes over reality... which is a lot more complicated, but also a lot more gratifying.

PS: I think you're very lovable too, Amy!

Posted by: Lena at February 13, 2007 10:12 AM

Posted by Joe at February 12, 2007 8:01 AM:
"Al-Takeyya is a policy whereby a Muslim may lie, deceive or omit critical truths if it promotes the spreading of Islam AND the conquest of the non-Muslim world."

Hmm! Sounds familiar... Remove "Muslim", "Islam", replace by whatever comes to mind and ask the question: What do you spread & what is the conquest?

Posted by: Frania W. at February 13, 2007 10:57 AM

Personally, I spread reason, rationality and understanding.

Do I force to convert people to atheism? No. Do I want to outlaw all competing faiths? No. Do I want to kill people who think, believe and act differently than me? Nope. Noticing a pattern here?

My other motives are: When someone here asks a question. I will be one of many to provide the answers. All aspects of the situation. Even the aspects that will make certain people uncomfortable. From the esoteric Sufis to the crazed monobrow bomber brigades. All faiths.

If anyone disagrees? Refute my arguments.

Posted by: Joe at February 13, 2007 1:22 PM

Oops! Joe, there seems to be a misunderstanding here because I really like what you say & the way you say it.

The *you* in my post was not meant to be “you” personally, but anybody in a general sense. What I meant to say was that what you wrote on lies, deception & the omission of critical truths could apply to other situations if the words “Muslim” and “Islam” were removed from the text to be replaced by – let’s say “Mafia” or any other rogue organization, no specific one coming to mind right now. Then, what would be spread & what would the conquest be? Being spread: Religion, Fairy Tales, Democracy… and for conquest: the Mind and Gold, be it golden or black.

Posted by: Frania W. at February 13, 2007 7:10 PM

I found it amazing that this was broadcast on a Muslim station. It's incredible.

Posted by: Chicknlady at February 14, 2007 1:47 AM

Its okay, Frania.

Posted by: Joe at February 14, 2007 12:44 PM

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