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What Price False Accusation?
The falsely accused Duke lacrosse players, now exonerated, are calling for reforms in the justice system. I heard one of them -- I believe it was Ryan Seligmann -- on CNN, wondering what would happen to falsely accused people who don't have the resources these kids' parents did for their defense. Another player, Evans, was quoted on CNN.com:

"Many people across this country, across this state, would not have the opportunity that we did, and this could simply have been brushed underneath the rug just as another case and some innocent person would end up in jail for their entire life," Evans said. "It's just not right."

Evans also criticized how news reports characterized him and his teammates.

"A great disservice has been done to the sport of lacrosse, and the stereotypes aren't true," Evans said. "They sell magazines and newspapers, but they're not anything that represents us as a sport, as a school, as a university and as a team. And they are wrong."

Finnerty thanked his family, friends and fellow students for their support.

Evans' attorney, Joe Cheshire, admonished the media not to judge suspects before the legal system does:

"Roy Cooper said a word today; the word is I-N-N-O-C-E-N-T. I wanted to make sure everybody got that."

The players and lawyers urged reform in the legal system.

"There seem to be some flaws in the legal system that should be addressed," Finnerty said. "The fact that in North Carolina there are no recordings of the grand jury, and to establish checks and balances on district attorneys."

Here's a check and balance from me: I'd like to see those who can be proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, to have made a false accusation of rape, to serve the time that would have been served by their victim or victims, the falsedly accused.

Hmmm...speaking of which, it seems the feminist blog Pandagon is strangely silent. Went over there (to the land of irrationality and art theft) to look for recent entries and searched "Duke"...then "Nifong" (nothing at all), and then "lacrosse," and came up with this March 9 tidbit posted by some courageous anonymous blogger called "Sheelzebub":

I realize we should all be weeping and gnashing our teeth over the Duke lacrosse players, who are of course! Suffering just like Emmet Till! but I just can’t.

Let’s compare, shall we, the plight of men who have money, who have truckloads of sympathy from people and the media, and who have defense attorneys who have turned them into saints. The plight of men who can have their day in court.

Compare that to women who are lied about, harassed, and stalked online.

Wow. To not have a drop of empathy for what these guys were going through, especially when there was so much evidence that they weren't guilty and were being railroaded...I don't know how you get to that place. And to equate it with being "lied about" online. I've been lied about online, and it is, well, underfun, but I can't imagine ever comparing it to being falsely accused of a crime in my early 20s, vilified in the international press, and looking at a serious threat of serious prison time.

I can, however, understand, why this Pandagon chick, so clearly lacking in humanity, would want to remain anonymous.

Posted by aalkon at April 12, 2007 10:11 AM

Comments

Amy - the difference between you and Amanda is that she hates. Especially men. She hates men with every fiber of her being.

If you've never experienced that kind of pure hate, you cannot really understand it.

Posted by: brian at April 12, 2007 3:32 AM

It's always curious to me when people compare suffering, find yours inferior, and then claim that you have no right to complain because others have it worse.

I'll take it one step further: how can women who have been lied about, harrassed, and stalked online complain, when others have been captured, tortured and maimed? And how can THOSE women complain, when others have been killed? And how can the families of the dead women complain, when so many other families don't ever find out what happened to their missing family member?

Her argument is ridiculous. The fact that another person has pain in no way negates your own.

Posted by: Tess at April 12, 2007 4:23 AM

Interesting day Wednesday.., Imus on one side, Nifong on the other. I adored this picture from Drudge on the Tuesday.

http://tinyurl.com/3bznq3

The LAT had the good sense to print it on the front page yesterday. Those are *beautiful* young women, and they may not even be the starting five!

Their expressions are money in the bank... The same disinterest that young beauties always have in the eye of a storm, i.e., "Someone will take care of this."

It's like they're look up towards Imus as if to ask, "Pardon me, Sir, is there a point you wanted to make?"

Apparently there was. "Nappy-headed hos" is a very strange concept to have rattling in around in your skull. If that's the sort of thing Imus struggles to keep under wraps as he moves through the world, maybe he shouldn't be in media... It's a kinda painful and violent notion. This guy may not be important, but it's fun to see him going through Hell for this anyway.

Drudge has, at this hour, a picture of the Duke accuser on his front page. Same youthful appeal, different expression, This is not a woman who has good, competitive friendships, a loving family, a clean team uniform, a disciplined coach, and all the rest. I'm not sure why Drudge put her picture up. She's obviously being kicked around by life, no matter what she told the police. and can't be credited as the author of the Duke scandal.

I say blame Nifong. And the New York Times.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 4:37 AM

Also, Beauty #4 is named Epiphanny Prince!


Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 4:55 AM

It would be fun to have a daughter you could nickname Piffers.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 4:57 AM

I'm addicted to your comments, Crid.

Posted by: doombuggy at April 12, 2007 5:35 AM

I like you, too

> those who can be proved, beyond
> a reasonable doubt, to have made
> a false accusation of rape, to
> serve the time

I'd agree, if the accuser was a clear thinker of steady deportment and demonstrable accusation. I haven't read much about this case, but I'd guess that everything that went down in the privacy of the police and prosecutor's chambers was a fog. I want and expect police to make assessments about people, and not assume that every mumbled complaint about life --and I'd guess this woman had cause to complain a *lot*-- should be turned to a prosecution. Our civic agencies should have that judgment, and be punished when they don't...

...Hi, Mr. Nifong!

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 5:59 AM

I agree with Crid. In general, yes, I would like to see false accusations of rape treated more seriously than they are. That having been said, the one thing that everyone in this case seems to agree upon is that the accuser is severely disturbed. I'm not sure prosecuting her would solve anything - she's already in a mental prison of her own making. It's entirely possible that she truly believed that she was raped by these guys...because somewhere, at some point, she was raped by someone or someones, and her mind is unstable.

Nifong's mind, on the other hand, seems perfectly stable to me. I'd say this *is* a tragedy caused by a privileged white guy...just not the privileged white guys who got railroaded by a venial DA and a knee-jerk media. The one who asked what would have happened to them if their parents had fewer resources is absolutely right. Glad this is all over with, from a legal point of view, for them.

Posted by: marion at April 12, 2007 6:39 AM

the one thing that everyone in this case seems to agree upon is that the accuser is severely disturbed.

Well, that sure wasn't an obstacle when the allegations were being made, was it? This woman had a lawyer, an overzealous DA, and a number of other champions who believed and defended every word she said. Hell, Jesse Jackson offered to pay her college tuition. Come to think of it, there's another guy who's been awfully quiet since the case was thrown out.

"She has mental problems" is a cop-out. If she really did have mental problems, then the alleged professionals mentioned above should have gotten her some counseling, instead of trying to build a legal case around her delusions.

Posted by: Gary S. at April 12, 2007 6:55 AM

Alternative check and balance idea: If you make an anonymous rape accusation, and the accusation is found to be false, you lose your right to anonymity. Your name gets released to the media jackals.

I think people would be less likely to make false rape accusations if there was a risk of their lives being destroyed by it. As it is, pretty much everybody but the accuser gets their name tarnished.

Posted by: Gary S. at April 12, 2007 7:02 AM

This comes out of ridiculous ideas about sexuality, that rape, because it's a sex crime, is somehow more shameful than being robbed. We do release the names of mugging victims, don't we?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at April 12, 2007 7:10 AM

Well, we're less patient with mugging victims who walk through slums with bundles of twenties sticking out of their pockets. Rape is sexual assault, and people have very deep and personal feelings about sex. If a young woman in your family were raped, would you want people to know about it? Would you want them to know that she was dealing with the feelings from the intrusion, and talk about her as she was doing so?

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 7:26 AM

I'm with Amy about the anonymity issue. If your child is abducted and killed, you're struggling with trauma and your name is in the press. If your house is fire-bombed, ditto. You're taken at gunpoint on an airplane by a terrorist, beaten senseless by a cop for no apparent reason, stalked and shot in your workplace, attacked by a barbaric psycho who carves your 9-month fetus out of your abdomen while you're awake and alive---in all these cases, your name is in the press, even though you're "dealing with the feelings from the intrusion."

Aren't we ADDING to the shame of rape by telling women that the crime is so awful that no one should even know you even GOT raped?

Posted by: Tess at April 12, 2007 7:41 AM

About "blaming the victim," here's a point I made in a column, with myself as the example:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2006/08/random_acts_of_1.html

Even now, you write about your marriages like they just happened to you, and paint yourself as a victim -- very convenient, since “blaming the victim” is considered heresy on par with using the flag to clean the bathtub.

But often, the victim does bear some responsibility. Take me, for example: I used to live in a pretty isolated section of downtown New York City, just past a big UPS garage. I had a rule that I’d only take Greenwich Street home when the UPS guys were there loading and unloading. After moving to California, I came back to visit and lah-dee-dah wandered down Greenwich late one night -- followed, unbeknownst to me, by some creep who ran up behind me and helped himself to a big grope. I screamed and thrashed, I ran, I was fine. Did I tell myself I was a victim? No, I told myself I was a moron -- and resolved to never again meander around New York City with my street smarts dangling off some palm tree back home.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at April 12, 2007 7:44 AM

Tess, continue the mugging metaphor. If every one knows you were robbed, they're going to start asking how MANY bundles of dough you had in your pockets, what denomination, wrapped in paper or plastic, were you flashing your jewelry too, did the other customers in the drugstore see you carrying all that cash when you bought your Metamucil, or were you discreet... etc.

But when it's rape, those questions become what was she wearing, was she drinking, was she unusually flirtatious.... That last one is a line that you might draw differently that other people, and you might not care so much about their opinions when you're in pain.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 7:53 AM

The real crime was the rush to prosecute until all the facts were gathered. Especially during an election cycle. The selection of evidence to prosecute the students. Evidence (ATM receipt and cell phone records) that showed one of the students was somewhere else at the time of the rape. Background checks. Compare and then make a decision. What I mean is that anyone within law enforcement (including the prosecutor's office) commit a background check on the accuser. Previous run-ins with law enforcement. Did she make false accusations in the past? Did the students have past behavior of sexual assault? What are the reputations among their peers, friends and family.

Past behavior is a strong indicator of future behavior. Yes, I know people would like to believe they have the power to change. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Keep saying it until it becomes a false concept like the accuser's belief that she was raped.

The other real crime is the lack of interest among feminists to reform rape laws to try to eliminate or reduce the rate of false accusations.


Posted by: Joe at April 12, 2007 8:14 AM

I want to see the woman who accused the Duke players of rape punished because I feel that her false accusation has hurt women throughout this country and internationally who have been viciously sexually assaulted. Getting authorities to take rape accusations seriously is much easier than it used to be, but that doesn't make it easy.

I think the key difference between blaming the victim of a mugging versus blaming the victim of a rape gets into how these crimes are actually prosecuted. No one would say to someone who had their wallet stolen "Are you sure you didn't WANT your wallet stolen? I mean you were at a party, with all this cash, and you were drunk, how was my client to know you didn't want your wallet taken." There is a consent issue with rape that isn't there with mugging, no one asks ifyou said "no" when you were mugged.

When it comes to someone taking your wallet it is pretty much taken as given that you didn't want your wallet taken. Even if they can prove that you were being stupid, flashing around dough etc, taking that money is still a crime. I can see 50 bucks in someone's pocket and choose not to take it, it is ultimately the criminals decision to commit the crime, no matter how much the victim may be "asking for it." But with rape we for some reason still hold in our minds that maybe the victim DID want to have sex with the rapist.

Also, giving money away one time is rarely taken as consent to having your wallet stolen "So, you've given money away to people before, how do we know you didn't give this guy your wallet this time. Your friend Joe says you give him money all the time." Protecting the victims identity protects them from being prosecuted in the media as someone who "likes to give it away, therefore cannot be raped."

I agree that everyone needs to take personal responsibilty for their own safety, but that doesn't mean that the criminal isn't untimately the one responsible for the crime.

Posted by: Shinobi at April 12, 2007 8:17 AM

""She has mental problems" is a cop-out. If she really did have mental problems, then the alleged professionals mentioned above should have gotten her some counseling, instead of trying to build a legal case around her delusions."

I totally and completely agree, and that was actually my ultimate point. There will always be disturbed people making crazy false accusations (as opposed to rational people making malicious false accusations). Generally, people in the first category are easy to spot. They should be put into counseling, not made the focus of an effort to Take Down the Man.

"There is a consent issue with rape that isn't there with mugging, no one asks ifyou said "no" when you were mugged."

Yep. I agree that it's dumb to go to a college party without a huge group of friends/designated sober person, get drunk out of your mind, and just trust in faith that nothing will happen, just as it's dumb to walk down a deserted alley at midnight with hundred-dollar bills waving from your fists. But in the latter case, your stupidity is never cast as an excuse for the crime perpetuated on you. Which is another reason that this story pisses me off so much, because somewhere at some point in the future, a woman in North Carolina really will be raped by a guy or guys with more power or resources than she has, and will have more trouble than usual being taken seriously because of this case and others like it. False accusations of rape screw over a lot of people...women included.

Posted by: marion at April 12, 2007 8:31 AM

BTW, Imus is wigging out this morning, asking when Sharpton's going to apologize for Nifong

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 8:39 AM

It seems clear to me that responsibility for what happened in this case falls squarely on Nifong's shoulders. Nifong was in charge of making sure that indictments in his district were well-founded; surely anyone smart enough to pass the bar had to know that a rape case involving white Duke students and black stripper would lead to a media frenzy. Anyone in his position with a lick of sense would know that this was a circumstance to check things out carefully before proceeding, to not discuss things with the press, etc. Certainly prosecutors hear uncorroborated accusations every day - it's their job to sort things out. The victim doesn't indict anyone, and a full investigation of her accusations BEFORE the indictment would have shown them to be hollow, making this a non-story.

It's good to see Imus on the hot seat for his nasty comments - as Crid noted above, you don't say stuff like that unless you think it first. I don't like her thinking usually, but Malkin makes a good point: it would be totally uncontroversial if say, Snoop Dog, said the same thing Imus did, but in a song. Scroll down to the bottom for his especially tortured logic in defense of how hip-hop artists describe women.

Posted by: justin case at April 12, 2007 10:21 AM

Re Sheelzebub: Well....No matter what the facts may be, those Duke students are STILL guilty because they are men...right?

Re Imus: The vocabulary Imus used regarding the female basketball players was juvenile, inappropriate and racist. Even though you can't find a rapper on the planet who hasn't used the very same words (or worse) to describe African-American women, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton should focus all of their boycotting powers on punishing Don Imus because he's white...right?

Sorry. Being an oppressed person does not exonerate one from being a hypocrite...just as being a person of color does not exonerate one from being an asshole.

Posted by: RedPretzel in LA at April 12, 2007 10:26 AM

Even though you can't find a rapper on the planet who hasn't used the very same words (or worse) to describe African-American women, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton should focus all of their boycotting powers on punishing Don Imus because he's white...right?

Google is your friend. http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/09/ltm.03.html

Sharpton has a well-documented history of condemning rap lyrics. I'm not generally a fan of Sharpton, but your criticism is misplaced.

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 10:42 AM

And this:

Al Sharpton demanded that the Federal Communications Commission ban violent rappers from radio and television, and he launched a boycott against Universal Music Group, which he accused of "peddling racist and misogynistic black stereotypes" through rap music. Sharpton expressed special concern about white perceptions of African Americans. Rappers and their corporate supporters "make it easy for black culture to be dismissed by the majority," he said, and the large white fan base "has learned through rap images to identify black male culture with a culture of violence."

Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition signed on to the boycott, as did Princeton professor Cornel West, who issued a statement claiming that music companies and rappers made it easy for whites to "view black bodies and black souls as less moral, oversexed and less intelligent."

http://www.rjgeib.com/biography/ventura/geib-great-art-challenge/rap-jazz.htm


Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 11:07 AM

I still resent Jackson for breaking my heart. He should not be offering, even rhetorically, to cover the needs of yet another schoolchild.....

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 11:30 AM

Good call on the rap stuff, though

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 11:31 AM

Well, that's certainly good to hear. I stand corrected.

Has Sharpton done the talk show circuit to promote this boycott or confronted rap musicians or executives at their record labels on TV?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious, because for some reason the actions against the rappers and the actions against Imus feel "different" somehow.

Posted by: RedPretzel in LA at April 12, 2007 11:34 AM

I have no idea as I do not watch or listen to talk radio or TV. But the first link I provided is a CNN transcript.

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 11:40 AM

I hate it how people are against rap for its violent content. If you dont like it because its not your style of music thats one thing that I can understand... If its because you think it corrupts the youth that's another. Kids do violent shit because they have shitty parents. All blame rests on parents who shouldnt be having children in the first place not on people who enlighten us with "I'm pullin' hoes in the club and I dont even try/She glance at my wrist and wanna take my dick". Because those musicians are just providing evidence of the inherent biological diffrences between men and women. Women are seeking men with status, and men are looking to pull hoes in the club w/out even trying.

Posted by: PurplePen at April 12, 2007 11:42 AM

Disagree. The violent culture enjoyed by white, financially comfortable teens is an obvious pose. When they get out of high school or college, they cut their hair, pull up their pants, turn their hats around and go back to real life. The black rap ethusiasts/providers, who might previously have thought of their white listeners as being sensitive to their lives, don't have that option.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 11:47 AM

Yes but its not because rap is corrupting them. It's because there is nothing else for them. There is only a superficial culture to look up to so I'm tired of people saying its the rap. Isnt the rap just a symptom not the disease??

Posted by: PurplePen at April 12, 2007 12:05 PM

In the same way that salt and animal fat and processed sugar are the disease at McDonalds. If those irresistible temptations were taken away, they'd have to offer something better, wouldn't they?

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 12:20 PM

Westerns have violent content. Much of literature and the arts has violent content. Dostoevsky and Shakespeare are filled with the stuff.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at April 12, 2007 12:20 PM

Well, are you happy with the result? Are young black men from whose souls the product is thought to be wrought getting what they want from their lives?

Rock in the seventies was merely criminally STUPID (excepting of a fistful of talents who we still admire). I'm embarassed that I enjoyed such stupid stuff, but it didn't cause me to say violent or degrading things about women.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 12:30 PM

This is going to sound backhanded, but it's true: When rap isn't misogynist, violent, or stupidly mundane in its composition, I like it!

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 12:34 PM

I will get back to this issue later. But I was just listening to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0zQ1F3phPA

What do ya think Crid? It's an oldie but a favorite. Not misogynist or violent. Just really chill.

Posted by: PurplePen at April 12, 2007 1:30 PM

Just because I'm feeling ornery today:

Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand
Hey Joe, I said where ya goin' with that gun in your hand

I'm goin' down to shoot my old lady now
You know I caught her messin' 'round with another man
I'm goin' down to shoot my old lady
You know I caught her messin' 'round with another man
Huh, and that ain't to cool

Hey Joe, I heard you shot your woman down
You shot her down down
Hey Joe, I heard you shot your lady down
You shot her down to the ground

Yes, I did, I shot her
You know I caught her messin' 'round, messin' 'round town
Yes, I did, I shot her
You know I caught my old lady messin' 'round the town
And I gave her the gun, I shot her

Hey Joe, where you gonna run to now
Where you gonna run to
Hey Joe, I said, where you gonna run to now
Where you, where you gonna go

Well dig it
I'm goin' way down south
Way down Mexico way, alright
I'm goin' way down south
Way down where I can be free
Ain't no one gonna find me
Ain't no hangman gonna find me
He ain't gonna put a rope around me
You better believe it right now
Hey Joe, you better run on down
Goodbye, everybody

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 1:42 PM

It seems like a sturdy piece of R&B, but I'm too old and fat and white for that ... Since rock has been dead for however many decades, all I want out of rap is a little bit of innovation in the harmony and timbre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsk5rNFGBko

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 1:48 PM

Yes, I know that's almost twenty years old. Seems like yesterday, just before the dentures and cane

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 1:49 PM

I don't think rap is any more responsible for violence than Marilyn Manson was for Columbine.

PS, rock is *so* not dead.

~meshaliu

Posted by: meshaliu at April 12, 2007 2:44 PM

Weird, just got my last comment moderated?

Posted by: justin case at April 12, 2007 2:44 PM

Thanks for going to Pandagon so we didn't have to.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at April 12, 2007 2:53 PM

Great, Sharpton has criticized misogynist rappers. How many of them are now unemployed because of it?

Posted by: Jim Treacher at April 12, 2007 3:00 PM

Nice shifting the goalposts there, Jim.

Like I said, I'm hardly a fan of Sharpton's, but I don't think it's fair to fault the guy for not being omnipotent.

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 3:16 PM

How is that shifting the goalposts? I don't remember any furor like this over any of the rappers he apparently called out. Did he call for them to be dropped from their labels?

Posted by: Jim Treacher at April 12, 2007 3:20 PM

It's moving the goalposts in that the critique that Sharpton and Jackson aren't speaking out against black rappers and calling for boycotts was shown to be false.

My guess is that economics is the driving force (both in Imus being out of a job and bad boy rappers continuing to get record contracts) than anything Al Sharpton has to say. In other words, regardless of what Sharpton says a) music labels will hang onto artists who they figure will continue to generate sales and b) media outlets fire on-air personalities (and even top executives) that they figure will ultimately have a negative impact on their bottom line.

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 3:30 PM

Fair enough. I'm still skeptical that Imus would be going through this if he had a little more melanin, but fair enough.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at April 12, 2007 4:01 PM

Deja, "economics" is not like the weather, a force of of random caprice which devastates or enobles lives without respect to personal conduct.

(Whoops- Al Gore says that WEATHER isn't weather, either! We're in control and should do better work! OK, Let me take this from the top.)

Deja, "economics" is not like earthquake occurrence, a force of of random caprice which devastates or enobles lives without respect to personal conduct.

Economics represent the taste and decency and patience --all mixed together-- of everyone who happens to have two pennies to rub together. It's not a pretty metric, but let's not pretend that there's no humanity in there.

Did anyone see this in the Times today?

- Mexican telecom mogul Carlos
- Slim Helu last month blew past
- U.S. investor Warren Buffett to
- become the world's second-richest
- man with an estimated net worth
- of $53.1 billion, according to
- Forbes magazine.

- much deleted -

- But he appears in no hurry to
- give away the bulk of his fortune
- as Gates and Buffett say they
- will do. He said businessmen
- could best help society by
- sticking to their knitting
- instead of trying to play
- Santa Claus.

There are no quotation marks, so we're expect to assume that the writer (named Dickerson) did a reasonable translation. Even though I've been voting Republican lately, we should describe that last sentence as bad news for humanity...

One more heartbreaking sentence about this telecommunications giant: "Several studies have found that Mexicans pay some of the highest telecom rates in the world, which has hurt the nation's competitiveness."

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 4:51 PM

Hey, is "random caprice" redundant?

Hi, Hasan!

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 4:54 PM

Economics represent the taste and decency and patience --all mixed together-- of everyone who happens to have two pennies to rub together. It's not a pretty metric, but let's not pretend that there's no humanity in there.

Oh, I agree, in fact that's one of the big arguments I had frequently with my Macro Econ prof back in my college glory days. My point was that while Sharpton may be a relentless self-promoter and get periodic splashy media coverage, his actual impact on decisions of those who sign the big checks is probably minimal.

Posted by: deja pseu at April 12, 2007 5:19 PM

TrueTrueTrue, but he still pisses me off! He's first gear when we oughta be in fourth. Or fifth.

Today's Big Theme at Alkon's: Don't pretend that sex isn't sex just because it would be convenient for lawyers.

Posted by: Crid at April 12, 2007 5:24 PM

"This is going to sound backhanded, but it's true: When rap isn't misogynist, violent, or stupidly mundane in its composition, I like it!"

I like big butts and I cannot lie
You other brothas can deny...

...what? Any song that contains the lyrics, "Cosmo says you're fat/Well, I ain't down with that!" is a feminist classic. You can have my Sir Mix-a-Lot when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (He has a lot of fans over at NRO's The Corner blog, if the various responses to Operation Anaconda are any indication.)

That having been said, I would tend to distinguish between violence in the context of literature and/or storytelling and violence in the context of degradation. Is that difference subjective? Sure. Do I think there's a role for profanity in entertainment? Sure. But if you can't say what you're trying to say without using the terms, "bitches," "'hos," or various four-letter words, I question how much you're adding to the discourse.

Posted by: marion at April 12, 2007 7:41 PM

Emit Till does not deserve to be tied to another industrial fan of feminism and tossed off the bridge of political correctness yet again. It's just wrong to bring him into this cess pool in anyway shape or form.

Until a prosocuter can be held for knowingly lying and severly punished ( loooooong hard jail time 50 years + ) this will just keep on happening, over and over and over. But this is just a pimple that popped on the ass of what's wrong with America today.... wait for the puss to start oozing, it's coming. Watch the liberals wait for it with ritz crackers.

Posted by: wb at April 12, 2007 8:57 PM

" "She has mental problems" is a cop-out. If she really did have mental problems, then the alleged professionals mentioned above should have gotten her some counseling, instead of trying to build a legal case around her delusions"

The accuser was, at one point, institutionalized, so I don't know if it's a cop out. Anyone I've ever known who has been institutionalized has never become significantly less "crazy" after treatment.

I'm more interested in seeing the Nancy Graces and Wendy Murphys of the world hit with civil suits for slander and defamation of character.

Yesterday, Tucker Carlson did a fantastic job of exposing Murphy for the fraud that she is--to her face, with video evidence of her own erroneous statements.

I'd link to it, but, alas, it does not seem to be available.

So much for web 2.0 (kidding, techies)

Posted by: Steve W at April 12, 2007 11:30 PM

Oh, and of course Nifong must be given comeuppance, and immersion in a lake of boiling pitch would be much too kind.

Posted by: Steve W at April 12, 2007 11:37 PM

Weird, just got my last comment moderated?

This means it's gone to my spam folder -- probably because you put in more than one link. Sorry -- it's something the software refuses to stop doing. One link is okay, more...no.

If your comment gets "moderated," please email me IMMEDIATELY. I have to dump the contents of my spam folder frequently now because some spammer has figured out some malicious code that blocks me from getting into my comments (until the spam is dumped).

Very sorry about this.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at April 13, 2007 1:35 AM

>>The accuser was, at one point, institutionalized, so I don't know if it's a cop out.

It's a cop out for the people who believed her and advanced her case. They either didn't know she had mental problems, or didn't care. For them to say "well, she was crazy" is an attempt to downplay their own incompetence.

To be fair, I don't know that Nifong or anyone else on the accuser's side has publicly questioned the woman's sanity. My comment was originally in response to a comment about "everyone in the case", which presumably would include the prosecution attorneys.

Posted by: Gary S. at April 13, 2007 7:25 AM

If your comment gets "moderated," please email me IMMEDIATELY. I have to dump the contents of my spam folder frequently now because some spammer has figured out some malicious code that blocks me from getting into my comments (until the spam is dumped).

Very sorry about this.

No problem, Amy. Thanks for the heads up about the multiple links issue (my post had three). I thought something like that might be the case. I moderate a BB for the company my brother and I run, and am quite familiar with many of the ways the spam-bots try to create mischief. The general form of my post - a paragraph of text and three links - is very much in the same form as the "Best online pr0n!!!," or "sattiisssfy here completely" posts I have to delete from our forums.

Anyway, a little late now, but my post was in regard to the earlier discussion about current hip-hop acts that aren't misogynistic or stupid and don't suck. For anyone interested, I highly recommend Jurassic 5, Blackalicious, and Pigeon John.

Posted by: justin case at April 13, 2007 8:58 AM

PurplePen enjoy MC Breed because he used to be part of G-funk era like Warren G.

Posted by: PurplePen at April 13, 2007 9:54 AM

"It's a cop out for the people who believed her and advanced her case."

I misunderstood. I thought the suggestion was that the accuser was faking crazy and should be prosecuted for it.

If this ends up as Nifong's defense, he will be taking a page out of Gonzalez's book.

Gonzalez: I didn't know about the attorney firings because I wasn't doing my job.

Nifong: I didn't know she was crazy because I'm not good at my job.

Posted by: Steve W at April 13, 2007 10:52 AM

Anyone read anything about Nifong's apology? Did he offer any explanation?

Posted by: Crid at April 13, 2007 11:08 AM

>>I misunderstood. I thought the suggestion was that the accuser was faking crazy and should be prosecuted for it.

No problem. I should have been clearer.

Posted by: Gary S. at April 13, 2007 11:25 AM

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