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Falling Out Of Dove
Celebration's over, ladies.

dancingladies.jpg

(A mysterious dance troupe that suddenly appeared
on a Venice street during the Abbot Kinney festival.)

Newsflash: Large, multinational corporations really don't give a shit about your body image. Feminist groups, silly dears, applauded Unilever for Dove's "Campaign for Real Beauty," which should have been called Dove's "Campaign for Real Dollars" (not that there's anything wrong with that).

It isn't some company's job to worry about your body image. And frankly, I find it naive and silly to think for a moment they do. But, from a story by Alana Semuels in the LA Times, a consumer group called (sorry, I have to laugh, "The Campaign For A Commercial-Free Childhood") accused Unilever of (gasp!) hypocrisy!...because they're not only running the larger ladies in the Dove campaign, they're running a commercial for Axe grooming products for men that "blatantly objectifies and degrades" women.

First of all, it's not hard to have a "commercial-free childhood." I had one. It's called "Mommy didn't allow us to watch TV." But, back to the ads. Semuels writes:

Unilever shouldn't be commended for Dove's "Campaign for Real Beauty" while promoting products with a starkly different message, said Susan Linn, the consumer group's director and an instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.

"The campaign says they're going to help girls to resist a toxic marketing environment but they're creating that environment as well," Linn said.

Unilever spokeswoman Anita Larson said the Axe ads were clearly spoofs.

The Dove campaign is serious, she said, and "dedicated to making women feel more beautiful."

"Each brand effort is tailored to reflect the unique interests and needs of its audience," she said.

...A recent Axe TV ad showed a young woman who, spotting a man wearing Axe body spray in a grocery store, shoved a wheelchair out of her way to get close to him, gyrating and singing "bom chicka wah wah."

That and similar advertisements spawned a music video in which lingerie-clad pole-dancing women sing about "skimpy thongs."

The Axe line's U.S. website says that women turn into "lust-crazed vixens" around men wearing Axe, whose fragrance "acts upon the female libido and stimulates the clothing-removal section of the female brain." The company recently hired comedian David Spade to help make "The World's Dirtiest Film," a collection of clips sent in by young men who are encouraged to engage in "dirty sexy fun" so they can wash it away with Axe Shower Gel.

Dove's "Campaign for Real Beauty" has been extolled by women's groups and the advertising industry for its message that the beauty industry sets unrealistic standards for women. The company runs the Dove Self-Esteem Fund, a nonprofit that seeks to educate girls about a "wider definition of beauty."

Biological bullshit. For example, if you want to have a man in your life, wear clothes that reveal a waist, or give the illusion of one, since Devendra Singh found that men, across cultures, prefer women with an hourglass figure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping young girls develop self-worth, but do you really make women's lives better by lying to them about what it takes to attract the opposite sex?

As for the mewling about the objectification of women, guess what: Men aren't the only ones doing it. Men objectify women and women objectify women -- meaning, they objectify themselves. I think it was my friend, professor Catherine Salmon, who pointed this out in an essay. Male sexuality is visually driven. When men fantasize, they picture the woman (or the gay man) as the object of their desire; women generally picture being the object of desire. (Shouldn't the angry ladies be vilifying women for this, too?)

Posted by aalkon at October 12, 2007 11:21 AM

Comments

women generally picture being the object of desire.

Wow, that suddenly seems so obvious or at least reasonable, and yet, I never ever considered that before.

It's amusing how Evolutionary Psychology pisses off "modern mainstream feminists" so.

Posted by: jerry at October 12, 2007 2:12 AM

Well, then where does that leave me? I objectify men! I can't help it - every time I see a hot guy, I imagine him in a kilt! Then I imagine me removing said kilt! o_O

Posted by: Flynne at October 12, 2007 6:12 AM

My commercial-free childhood was much like yours - our TV watching was limited, to say the least. However, these days you can have a "commercial-free childhood" that equates to "Mommy only lets me watch DVDs."

Having seen the Axe commercials, I can confirm that they're obnoxious...but in a totally over-the-top way. I would feel more comfortable identifying myself with feminism if the feminist movement appeared to have anything approaching a sense of humor.

Anyway...the nice thing about having a DVR and watching most of my TV shows through it is that I can fast-forward through both the ridiculous Axe commercials and the earnestly boring Dove commercials and just watch the commercials I find interesting. I like the iPhone ones. As for objectification of men, I do tend to do to that. Guess I really have to accept that I'm not a feminist now...

Posted by: marion at October 12, 2007 6:57 AM

I think the Axe commercials are funny because they're so silly. I'm sure they're very effective too, because of the huge market of regular guys who want hot girls and think Axe is going to help them get lots of hot sex with gorgeous women.

I feel kind of sorry for these guys, and how easily they get played if they actually believe this crap will work. If nothing else, it's just a fantasy for guys who aren't getting any, so just let them enjoy it. Their life suck enough as it is.

Posted by: Chrissy at October 12, 2007 7:07 AM

The other interesting thing about the Dove "Campaign for Real Beauty"...I don't actually see any ugly women on the commercials. They still encourage women to look as "beautiful" as we can. While they aren't supermodel waifs, they are all evenly proportioned, symetrical and groomed. They don't actually show some wretched looking lady and claim "its what's inside that counts". It's a smart marketing campaign as it will lure some feminist mind-set types into the beauty buying realm. Uh-oh, what if, through enhancing what they got, they end up having sex and liking it. We'll lose the right to vote in no time! Unilever must be stopped!

Posted by: moreta at October 12, 2007 7:36 AM

Great point, Moreta. I'm reminded of that woman from the 70s anti-smoking ads. Why isn't she a Dove lady?!

Posted by: Amy Alkon at October 12, 2007 7:39 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaH4y6ZjSfE

I think that is the commercial that really turns the campaign from mildly patronizing to blatant hypocrisy. It specifically criticizes the beauty industry for their marketing, and yet is published by a company that does the very same thing.

I don't think having some ads with some psuedo realistic looking women in it is cause for uproar. However here they created a video that brings up all the bad things that the beauty industry is exposing kids to, only to continue to be part of it themselves. If they really cared they would actually work for change. They obviously don't care, why should they? I think if anything The CCFC should be exposing them as frauds, not somehow expecting them to change their ways.

And Marion, I think you'd be surprised that feminists actually DO have a sense of humor. It is just that some of them don't find half naked women humping men because of their deoderant particularly funny. I was pretty amused, for a while, but then TAG started doing the same thing, and now I'm just sick of it. We get it already.

Posted by: Shinobi at October 12, 2007 8:08 AM

The best thing about Axe is that it comes in 3 oz. containers - making it easy to fly without checking your bags. So you smell cheesy when you deplane, but at least its not BO. I wish the more established colognes would catch on.

Posted by: snakeman99 at October 12, 2007 8:13 AM

It is just that some of them don't find half naked women humping men because of their deoderant particularly funny.

The campaign isn't directed at them.

Men, likewise, are perplexed by many women's predilection for shoes.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at October 12, 2007 8:28 AM

If I had my way, those body sprays (man perfume) would be outlawed. I'm sick of having some young punk who emptied the entire can on himself getting in line behind me at Subway, and I can't breathe because of the fog he generates.

Hint: If I can smell you at 2m, YOU'RE WEARING TOO MUCH.

Posted by: brian at October 12, 2007 8:33 AM

The only person who should know you're wearing anything is the person who's chewing on your ear!
And here's another tip --- Right Guard does not smell good.

Posted by: Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 12, 2007 8:47 AM

I find the idea that any men are buying colognes because they think the scent will make hot women slather over them to be absolutely hilarious, myself.

As for the Dove women, good point about them still being attractive. Most of them do have hourglass-ish figures, actually - they may be a size 12 rather than a size 4, but we're not talking about the 300-pound shapeless people I sometimes see walking down the street, and I haven't seen anyone in the commercials with acne, though admittedly I have only seen the commercials briefly on YouTube.

I will say, as someone who's slightly below the old "one hundred pounds at five feet and five pounds for each inch above that" rule...I have the hardest time finding clothes that fit, because most of them do seem to be designed for short-waisted straight-up-and-down women (sometimes with boobs, sometimes not) as opposed to, say, women with a waist and hips. However, in real life, virtually all of the straight guys I know prefer women with hips/curves (i.e. the hourglass figure) over the straight-up-and-down ones. There's a reason the Victoria's Secret catalog is so popular. If Dove is just telling us that you don't have to look like Victoria Beckham to be appealing, it's not saying anything new.

Posted by: marion at October 12, 2007 8:53 AM

The campaign isn't directed at them.

Exactly, so why are feminists obligated to find it funny?

Brian, Word. Axe is not a substitute for a shower.

Posted by: Shinobi at October 12, 2007 9:03 AM

Men, likewise, are perplexed by many women's predilection for shoes.

You don't say. But it’s interesting that ads like the Dove "real beauty" campaign attract such claptrap. Once upon a time, advertisers would use impossibly good looking (to other women) models - the implied subtext being "use our product, like she does, and you too can look like this". But nobody buys this these days. We've all grown up constantly assailed by advertising and so stuff that probably worked in the 1960's doesn't cut it now.

So what's to do? Um, how about we try relating to the people who might want to actually buy our product, since the size 0 waifs with perfect skin market is pretty much non-existent and no-one's fallen for the beauty-by-association trick for a decade or so.

This is a story about a soap company trying to market its products to increase its revenue. Pure and simple. The only interesting angle is that they're trying a different line to the one that's been trotted out since forever. The feminist agenda here seems to be rooted in a belief that women are coerced (ultimately by men and "big business") into trying to appear beautiful. It's right up there with my pet theory that men have been subjugated into chasing women (by the romantic fiction industry if you must know).

Its real cart pulling horse thinking. Maybe kids buy music because record companies persuade them to? Or maybe the truth is that record companies are in the business of satisfying a demand that's already there, and if they didn't the kids would look elsewhere for their music. Same thing with women and and beauty products. Some people really do need to just so get over it.

Posted by: Robert James at October 12, 2007 9:36 AM

since the size 0 waifs with perfect skin market is pretty much non-existent

Actually, with size inflation in American stores, if I shop at someplace like the limited, I can be a size 0, and I'm 5'9...and while I'm slim, I'm not tiny. Recently, I've started being too small to wear an American 8 a lot of the time. I don't think I've lost weight. I think the 8s have gotten bigger and bigger.

When I buy fitted vintage jackets, for example, I'll wear a 10 or a 12 even. That's why, when people say Marilyn Monroe wore a 12 or 14, it's not a really good comparison to now.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at October 12, 2007 9:53 AM

Yeah, I have some size 2s upstairs in my closet because the larger sizes for those particular pieces of clothing were too big...and while I'm slim, I'm not Nancy Reagan. Part of it is that certain pieces of clothing are cut small at the waist and large everywhere else, which means that I with my somewhat pear-shaped figure and defined waist am always going to take the small size, but size inflation is rampant in women's clothing. I don't think Marilyn would be a size 0 if she were around today, but she definitely wouldn't be a size 12.

Posted by: marion at October 12, 2007 10:05 AM

> I think that is the commercial
> that really turns the campaign
> from mildly patronizing to
> blatant hypocrisy

Well, it was a campaign, right? Don't come crying about the media "onslaught." You welcomed that shit into your home.

Let's talk! Pour coffee!

The saddest thing about the portrayal of femininity in the media isn't the way it corrupts the understanding of young women about their bodies.

The thing about TV and magazines is that they're extremely cheap or absolutely free, because they're vehicles for advertising. But that doesn't mean they have some contractual obligation to bring a noble message to their readers... Maybe they'll do better if they do, but maybe not. The truth is that if you read these things or watch them, then you're the one who's responsible for what happens to your immortal soul. You brought them into your life, and nobody put a gun to your head. You could have gone to the library and read classic texts and journals at no cost... In fact, society would have been a better place if you had. But that darned Jennifer Anniston is just so cute, you need to see the papparazi pictures of her at that thing with that one guy...

This isn't a snobbish attempt to instill guilt! I make a living in TV. But let's not pretend that a voice which you've brought into your head because it panders to you with bright diction and simple melodies is doing something egregious just because it hits a flat note.

A woman who walks through life looking at feminine attraction as an immutable hierarchy (e.g., Alkon's inane obsession with Singh, above) has already accepted a distorted (but convenient) model of the world, and shouldn't whine upon notification that she's been placed on too low a stratum.

When a young man thinks his girlfriend should look like a Playboy centerfold, everyone agrees that he's an asshole. He's accepted a cheapjack, processed, remote fantasy of what femininity is about, and nobody sympathizes when he's disappointed with real life. I'm not inclined to give any more credit to the women's side of Madison Avenue. If you internalize their fantasies of narcissism, witlessness and social taxonomy, you probably deserve to have your feelings hurt.

In both cases, loving family should disabuse the dreamers of their arrogance. If a little girl is trying to pull that much insight out of commercial media, we can bet there are connections missing at the local level.

Media are not the problem. Policy is not the problem.

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 11:00 AM

I'm a waif, I've always been a waif. By others people logic I should be offended by these ads. They perpetuate the stereotype that all us waifs are brainwashed. The truth is I couldnt care less.

Once, when I was working in the Fitting Room of Marshalls I had this particularly thick broad come in to try on a dress. It didnt fit, and she came running out of the fitting room asking me if I could zip it up. I said sure, but sure as hell the zipper wouldnt go up. Finally she screamed at me "DONT TRY TO ZIP IT UP LIKE YOU WOULD ZIP UP YOUR CLOTHING!! ARE YOU STUPID??!" and then she ran back in the fitting room. Jesus Christ.

By the way the most judgemental people of fat people, are other fat people.

Posted by: PurplePen at October 12, 2007 11:18 AM

"By the way the most judgemental people of fat people, are other fat people."

I beg your pardon, PurplePen?

What's the basis of that? I think I'm fascinated.

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 11:36 AM

The fact that the majority of the U.S. population is obease.

Posted by: PurplePen at October 12, 2007 11:38 AM

"The fact that the majority of the U.S. population is obese."

I'm not sure how that particularly proves anything - but I'm probably just being thick!

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 11:53 AM

It always scares me when this happens but I'm finding myself pretty much in agreement with Crid.

Even if you don't buy the magazines and you do turn off the TV, you can't deny that we're bombarded with all kinds of images on billboards, bus stations, movie screens. The good news is that I think a lot of younger women are more media literate than I was at that age...they know these images are processed and plastic and not real.

Posted by: deja pseu at October 12, 2007 11:55 AM

> but I'm probably just
> being thick!

Everybody saw that, right? Very good.

(Tough room, Jody)

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 12:04 PM

> feminists actually DO
> have a sense of humor.

HOLY SHIT! Can't believe I missed that on the first read!

Share, Shinobi! Give us an example of an explosive feminist laugh for it's own sake... A line without the pointed subtext of expressing the hurt from some external social injustice...

I've been waiting almost five decades for this. It's going to be great!

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 12:09 PM

(Tough room, Jody)

You don't say.

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 12:15 PM

To be fair Jody your comment was a pun, and puns - no matter how good - usually draw groans opposed to laughs.

Comming so soon on the heels of purples dead pan response however it kept me laughing a little longer

Posted by: lujlp at October 12, 2007 12:22 PM

"To be fair Jody your comment was a pun..."

Shit, lujlp, I've only just seen what you mean! I really thought I was being dense...oh never mind:)

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 12:57 PM

I thought you were teasing Purp...

I know you're out there, people, I hear you breathing...

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 1:02 PM

"I thought you were teasing Purp..."

And I thought you were being passive aggressive.

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 1:05 PM

I don't think of myself as a victim, so I guess that's why neither the Dove ads nor the Axe ads get me all riled up and filled with moral indignation. They're all pretty funny for different reasons.

Advertising exists to SELL A PRODUCT and MAKE MONEY, and anything is fair game to achieve that goal. (Crid said it better with more words in his post above.)

By the way, I used to be a 12 too, and now I'm a size 2, 4, or 6, depending on who made the clothes. I don't even bother looking at sizes anymore, I just eyeball the item to see if it looks like it might fit me, then try it on.

Posted by: Chrissy at October 12, 2007 1:07 PM

God, you're so right Crid. I mean, what were feminists thinking, spending the last 50 years fighting for equal rights and respect for women. They really should have been coming up with jokes that you would find funny. We've been so blind, think of all the time we've wasted on stupid things like birth control and civil rights. I'll start the campaign today! We'll call ourselves WWAD, "Women Working to Amuse Douchebags."

*insert blowing your wwad joke here*


Posted by: Shinobi at October 12, 2007 1:41 PM

I shoulda known it wouldn't happen.

"You Guuuyyyyttthhh.... Thithhh ith THERIOUTH!!!!"

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 1:50 PM

Well it was funny to me.

Posted by: Shinobi at October 12, 2007 2:07 PM

Why would women work to amuse mass produced inanimate genital santiation devices - What am I missing here?

Posted by: lujlp at October 12, 2007 2:10 PM

That's what I'm trying to figure out myself Lujlp. You'll have to ask the resident mass produced inanimate genital sanitation device.

Posted by: Shinobi at October 12, 2007 2:18 PM

When the Marions of the world decline to identify as feminist, is it because they don't want to be thought of as humorless?

Posted by: Crid at October 12, 2007 2:42 PM

"When the Marions of the world decline to identify as feminist, is it because they don't want to be thought of as humorless?"

Marion put it in slightly more relaxed terms, Crid, but, yes, that was her drift re: the OTT Axe commercials. She wrote:

Having seen the Axe commercials, I can confirm that they're obnoxious...but in a totally over-the-top way. I would feel more comfortable identifying myself with feminism if the feminist movement appeared to have anything approaching a sense of humor.

Posted by: Jody Tresidder at October 12, 2007 3:18 PM

If you define feminism as believing that men and women should receive equal pay for equal work, and that no one should have to face real sexual harassment on the job, I am more than happy to call myself a feminist. I am delighted to see that, for example, big companies are setting aside lactation rooms and opening up day-care centers.

But, well, this discussion is reminding me of a longstanding joke:
Q: How many 'Cliffies does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: It's Radcliffe, it's WOMEN, and it's NOT FUNNY!!!

You know what I do find unamusing and turns me into a humorless scold, since we're on the topic of feminism? Right now, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is facing the prospect of life without the full-time security she was promised when she first ran for Parliament in the Netherlands. This is a woman who has been oppressed on the basis of her gender and who a bunch of crazies - mostly male - are trying to shut up, forever. If the world worked the way it should, NOW and company should be up in arms about this, demanding of Congress and the White House that she get security immediately and raising money to provide stopgap measures. Instead, the only people who can seem to produce genuine outrage about this are the Dreaded Neocons and various you'll-take-my-freedom-from-my-cold-dead-hands types such as Amy and Hitch. I'll stop before I hijack this thread and lose my sense of perspective, but I will take the cheap shot before I go of saying that I bet Hirsi Ali wishes the biggest problem she were facing right now were being annoyed by those ridiculous Axe ads.

Posted by: marion at October 12, 2007 4:07 PM

Word, Marion - I read that story about Ms. Ali this morning, and I was disappointed by the news, as well. I wish the hairy feminist brigade would take on the hairy Muslim fanatic brigade - now that would be funny.

Posted by: Pirate Jo at October 12, 2007 4:38 PM

This is offtopic, but I thought you might enjoy it:
Stick Magnetic Ribbons on Your SUV

Posted by: jerry at October 12, 2007 5:21 PM

On the commercial free front, we (the five year old and my partner and I) only watch the tee vee on DVD. Shows we like, we wait for the library to get them. If we get a real tee vee (we use the 'puter) we will only have it in the PBS. That's it. No worries about commercials.

Of course, that is a drop in the proverbial bucket of adverts that inundate us, but it goes a long ways. Having good discussions about marketing, go a long ways toward effecting the rest. (Including helping the five year old design advert campaigns, about things he thinks are important. His latest, is adverts for his fleet of imaginary airplanes and helos. They are great for moving construction supplies to remote locations and helping with demolition and blasting for roads and foundations.)

Helping children develop an awareness of what marketing is all about, makes it far easier for them to deal with the constant bombardment. It's never too early to start helping them develop an awareness of what marketing is all about. It will go a long ways towards turning them into effective consumers, later in life.

Posted by: DuWayne at October 13, 2007 10:43 AM

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