When In Paris...
Do as the Peorians do. Or, I guess, that's what this lady thought.
Or, maybe she didn't consider how she was dressed at all. I found that idea pretty funny because she was wearing a Patagonia windbreaker and big white ugly tennies in Paris, and then seemed shocked when I turned to her and her husband and blurted out a big, friendly, American "Hello!" (And, yes, I wrote this in September, and just noticed that I forgot to post it.)
At the time, I was waiting next to them for the light to change so we could cross the Seine. After I spoke, the woman looked back at me with apparent terror -- I guess because she assumes Parisian pickpockets and ne'er do wells are generally tall redheaded women who appear to shop a lot, not smelly guys from North Africa.
"You're American?" I asked. The woman reluctantly mumbled yes, probably at a loss for how I could've known. "Me, too!" I said, and flounced off across the bridge in a black skirt, black jacket, spring green shirt, and slim black boots...stopping for a moment so they could pass me and I could steal a photo.
Word to the touristic and terrified: If you're worried people will know you're American, and immediately snatch your purse and toss you in the Seine, first of all you're silly, but second, don't telegraph the fact that you're straight out of Ohio by dressing like you're in a rush to get to Wal-Mart to buy toiletpaper.
Here's how I dress to blend in with the locals.
Uh, the French locals, that is. These happened to be more of those World Cup-spirited Scots in Paree. These are historical kilts. And in case you're wondering, I'm totally comfortable, and, yet, I manage to avoid looking like I'm heading out for a hot dog at an amusement park in Sandusky, Ohio.
Aw c'mon! She's a woman who's gonna be on her feet all day. To some people, Paris is just a city to visit (and not a particularly clean one at that). It's not a church one attends to bow at the altar of High Fashion. You're right: Maybe she didn't "consider how she was dressed at all." Her boyfriend's dressed for a businessman's casual Friday: He had to earn the money. They're not wearing corporate logos, or even pretentious Italian brands like Muslim Rage Boy wears. This is as bad as it gets for them, and without their tourist enthusiasm, the city of light would be just another 'berg the Germans marched through. Listen, if Sartre invites me over for drinks or something, I'll root around in the closet for awhile. But if it's just a glance at Pompidou Center, and the Eiffel, and maybe grab a sandwich somewhere, then Ross Dress for Less has the uniform.
Amy, be nice to people.
Besides, what does Gregg wear in Paris?
Crid at October 16, 2007 1:12 AM
"Hmm. Obvious American infidels. They will have cash on them, and no local resources to pursue me in court..."
There are terribly practical reasons to look and act like a local, anywhere you go. Even in Sandusky, Ohio.
Radwaste at October 16, 2007 2:08 AM
Her husband/boyfriend looks fine, and Gregg usually dresses similarly. And he usually gets it all at Ross Dress For Less. P.S. I spend less on my clothes, and certainly less annually than most human beings. Frankly, my outfit probably cost less than hers, although the boots were 99 euros, a few years back on rue d'Alesia, a discount section of Paris. The rest of the outfit:
Jacket: Les Copains, bought for $50 at Daffy's
Skirt: from Style Express in LA, $25.10
Shirt: from Style Express in LA, $3
Earrings: 11 eu, years ago, at Monoprix (like Target) in Paris
Necklaces: three of them, $5.95 each, I think, at Style Express, in LA
TOTAL: $95.95
And I keep stuff for years, and all of it's years old.
I was on my feet all day, too, which is why I'm wearing low-heeled cowboy boots. I could walk 20 miles in those things. Also, my outfit is totally comfortable.
Rad gets it.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 5:10 AM
Sorry, forgot to add the earrings, bringing up the grand total to $106.95.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 5:14 AM
How unthinking of you to not realize that the lady probably views folk such as yourself as foreign and strange, whether you are from Paris Franch or Paris TN.
You're not thinking like a heartlander.
Jim at October 16, 2007 5:30 AM
Aw c'mon, yourself, Crid! Where's the fun in going to Paris if you're not going to dress up? I'd much rather blend in with the locals than stick out like a sore thumb. Even in New Orleans, there's a certain way to dress, and even walk, that doesn't scream "Out-of-Towner!" to the locals. It's just common sense. That woman could've worn a nice pair of black flats with a bow and still have been comfortable. And Amy's right, that jacket has got to go, poor thing looks a tad frumpy in it. o_O
Flynne at October 16, 2007 5:41 AM
I'm not from Paris, France; I'm from Michigan. As is Gregg.
See Rad's comment above.
People never treat me like I'm "strange" for not dressing like I'm cleaning out the garage. Not even when I go back to the midwest.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 5:42 AM
Flynne's exactly right.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 5:49 AM
P.S. As for "pretentious Italian brands" worn by Muslim Rage Boy, that jacket is "Versace" by way of the curb (as in, probably $10, sold by some guy on the street).
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 5:52 AM
Amy, don't know how you feel about suede - but if it's your thing then you'd be envious of the skirt I'm wearing today. Bought on sale three years ago for like $75 marked down from $300. It feels great, funky movement and uhh, enhances the leathery notes in my perfume.
Perfume, btw is the way I would fit in while in Paris. I'd sooner forget to put on underwear than forget to put on a few spritzes of something special. I'll be in NYC next weekend for Sniffapalooza :-) A scarf and my glasses round out the local look.
Gretchen at October 16, 2007 5:54 AM
I'm with Flynne and Amy on this one too. Half the fun of planning our Paris trip earlier this year was figuring out what to wear. (Now I know what works, and next time I'll be able to pack even lighter and smarter.) Regarding footwear for walking, there are a lot of great options out there that don't look like something you'd bathe the dog in. I had a pair of "1803" black square toe loafers that looked quite nice with my slacks, but were comfortable all day.
deja pseu at October 16, 2007 5:57 AM
Bought on sale three years ago for like $75 marked down from $300.
This is one thing I've learned from the French -- to buy one or two beautiful things instead of a lot of cheap crap.
For comfort, I highly recommend G series (with Nike technology) by Cole Haan. (I have a pair of girly looking kitten heels that I could run a few miles in -- if I were still allowed to run [beyond when I'm being chased].)
For EXTREME comfort, I have these in black, and an older pair in blue suede:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DDDVK?ie=UTF8&tag=advicegoddess-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0000DDDVK
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 6:04 AM
Gretchen, I'll be in NYC on Friday. Company meeting on Long Island, then I'm meeting some friends in the city proper for dinner; we'll probably go to BB King's on 61st. My outfit will probably be my long, oversized comfy white and black flannel shirt with black skinny jeans, tucked into my black suede low-heeled cowboy boots, wide black leather belt (low slung over the untucked shirt), not sure if I'll wear shades or not, depending on the weather. I tried it on last night, just to see how it would look and both of my daughters were saying "mom, NICE!" The shirt has these really big billowy sleeves, and it's a pullover style with buttons that go just to below the cleavage.
Flynne at October 16, 2007 6:04 AM
"When In Paris..."
Wow, that would have been a great story if you could've just found somebody else to write it about you, (or at least pretented to.)
Surely there were Ugly Americans on that street.
martin at October 16, 2007 6:44 AM
All my leather goods are Cole Haan (not the skirt, though). The brown Cole Haan shoes I'm wearing have Nike Air soles. G Series isn't actually their Nike Air collection - it's their "couture" collection and some of the stuff has Nike Air.
Nike Air is used through out their different collections and is definitely worth it...especially when you're me and get it all at cost b/c an unnamed family member is the VP of the company :-)
Gretchen at October 16, 2007 6:45 AM
No need for anybody to be the Ugly American, not in Paris or at home. In fact, if you're a woman and you want to keep a man interested, you'd do well to emulate the French women, who tend not to let themselves go like American women do; especially in their older years.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 6:47 AM
These were the one pair heels I took to Paris (also Cole Haan. They were intended for our one fancy dinner, but I ended up walking a couple of miles in them and was fine.
http://www.colehaan.com/colehaan/catalog/product.jsp?productId=135382&categoryId=309502&productGroup=135379
deja pseu at October 16, 2007 6:50 AM
On the other hand, never underestimate the sheer, unadulterated hatred some of us feel for shopping. I like nice clothes, but I'd rather have my wisdom teeth pulled out than shop. I mean, I really, REALLY hate it. I envy that you enjoy dressing up - looking at it like a hobby? Must be nice! That's like being someone who thinks raw vegetables taste like chocolate and who makes a living GETTING massages. I'd love it if a bunch of nice clothes just showed up on my doorstep every so often - hell, I'd pay for the clothes and pay someone else to pick 'em out for me. But when I shop, I can usually only stand going to one or two places before the irritation of it overwhelms me, which means I usually end up going home emptyhanded, which is why I almost never bother with it in the first place.
Pirate Jo at October 16, 2007 6:56 AM
It helps to have buy only beautiful, classic clothes that last, which you can do even if you dress creatively.
Also, European sizes (like in Les Copains and Joseph pants) tend not to vary as much as American ones, in my experience. I can order both on eBay for a song.
I bought Donna Karan size eight a few months back ($8!) on eBay, and they fit me like a backyard swimming pool with a zipper.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 7:02 AM
Oo deja, tres tres sexy! I have my eye on the herringbone trench, but even after my discount and my gift certificate it's still $550 - I'll save up and then justify it b/c I'll have it for ten years. That's only $0.15/day!!!
"In fact, if you're a woman and you want to keep a man interested, you'd do well to emulate the French women"
Amy, infidelity among French men is very common. If these French women, who are also wives, have cheating husbands it doesn't seem that the extra effort does much (if keeping a husband interested or from screwing other women is a goal).
The difference is "French Men Don't Get Caught." (As far as causalities go I must also mention French women tend to look the other way, as infidelity by men is more 'accepted'. So maybe the wife is still sexy, but if he can get away w/ it, why not, right?)
http://men.msn.com/articlebl.aspx?cp-documentid=4096355
Gretchen at October 16, 2007 7:11 AM
Yeah, if he can get away with it, why not? But personally, I'd get really tired of it really quick. Besides, looking the other way just because infidelity by men is accepted, doesn't mean there's less risk of STDs going around. Why disrespect your wife, and yourself, with that type of behavior?
Flynne at October 16, 2007 7:39 AM
"On the other hand, never underestimate the sheer, unadulterated hatred some of us feel for shopping."
You think you hate shopping? Try being a straight guy --- I need a wedding band to wear just for shopping trips.
Either that or a nametag that says "Just here for a jacket, pal, you don't really need to know which side I dress to sell me one of those."
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 16, 2007 8:04 AM
"So maybe the wife is still sexy, but if he can get away w/ it, why not, right?" - I was definitely being sarcastic! Dear boyfriend: you WILL get caught and I WILL cut you off forever and I WILL continue to be sexy and you will NEVER have it again.
...but alas, I'm a bitchy American chick and if the mutually decided upon rule is monogamy then that's how it stays until further discussion.
I'm w/ Flynne - eww to thinking you're safe in your monogamous relationship only to have your gyno find an STD at your yearly check up!
Gretchen at October 16, 2007 8:09 AM
What makes you think that the French wives are being faithful? Who do you think all these French husbands are having sex with?
Chrissy at October 16, 2007 9:06 AM
I have made several trips to several European cities.
The rule is always: NO white sneakers.
Someone mentioned Cole Haan. They make great shoes. My simple black loafers carried me through Florence, Paris, Prague, Munich and Amsterdam.
You don't have to dress like a super model on the loose. You can be comfortable and still blend in a little more than these people did.
I think the same idea applies when traveling within the U.S. New York, Boston, San Francicso, L.A. are much different than say Denver, Austin and New Orleans.
The key is to think about where you are going and what you will be doing.
And if you still want to wear powder blue Patagonia, don't be shocked when people peg you as American as soon as you get off the plane.
Jill at October 16, 2007 9:10 AM
I've found that the best way to keep a guy faithful is to keep him too busy worrying about the possibility of you screwing around on him. If you have a hot body, dress nicely, and act with confidence, he knows other men will find you attractive, and also that you won't put up with any crap from him.
You have to show other people how you want to be treated, otherwise they'll walk all over you.
Chrissy at October 16, 2007 9:12 AM
"In fact, if you're a woman and you want to keep a man interested, you'd do well to emulate the French women, who tend not to let themselves go like American women do; especially in their older years."
Word. A week ago I spent a nice supper with a couple of very charming, very nice looking French ladies, both of whom were old enough to be grandmothers, but looked 20 years younger.
There are certain French and Italian women that I find to be incredibly sexy, but honestly it has almost nothing to do with clothes. They could wear butt-ugly overalls and I would still find them attractive because of the confidence with which they carry themselves. The best of them seem to have found a way to convey the message that they enjoy flirting and being looked at by men as objects of desire, but that they are still independent, intelligent and competent people.
If you enjoy clothes, by all means shop, dress up, etc., but I'm taking Crid's side on this one.
As for safety, I've done my fair share of walking in western Europe. The only time I've even come close to being robbed was by 5 tween girls in Pisa doing the hands under the cardboard routine. Walking with purpose, being aware of my surroundings and not generally doing things more dangerous than what I would at home have been all I've needed.
Shawn at October 16, 2007 9:17 AM
While I'm all for blending in with the locals, I'm more bothered by fashion fascism of any sort. While this woman is unmistakably American, she looks like she's dressed comfortably for a day of walking around Paris, and assuming her front side matches her back, not objectionable-looking. Jesus, lighten up. I, and many other women, would look like a clown turned out in Amywear. It would not only be physically uncomfortable -- I cannot wear heels above an inch for any distance longer than a couple blocks -- it would be a total distraction, and like Shawn says, it would show on my face.
I haven't been to Paris in 25 years, but I recall plenty of girls on the street in jeans and plain white T-shirts, and they looked great. It's all in how they bring that ooh-la-la.
Nance at October 16, 2007 9:48 AM
Don't know (but suspect) about, say, the 3rd Street Promenade or Venice Beach; but a field trip to Hollywood & Highland (for instance) will show that heartlanders, or even Americans generally, don't have a monopoly on dressing like tourists.
TE at October 16, 2007 10:45 AM
Nance said:
>
Right in one. The gall of these tourists, to dress like tourists!
Speedy
Speedy at October 16, 2007 11:30 AM
TO: Amy Alkon, et al.
RE: How You're Dressed
"Or, maybe she didn't consider how she was dressed at all. I found that idea pretty funny because she was wearing a Patagonia windbreaker and big white ugly tennies in Paris, and then seemed shocked when I turned to her and her husband and blurted out a big, friendly, American "Hello!"" -- Amy Alkon
As for the being 'shocked'....obviously....it had something to do with the 'friendly'. As I understand it, most Parisians despise Americans. So 'friendly' greetings from near strangers would be 'shocking'.
As for the attire....
....who gives a damn????!!?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The height of sophistication is not carrying what other people think of the way you dress....as long as you aren't arrested.]
Chuck Pelto at October 16, 2007 12:34 PM
> As I understand it, most Parisians despise Americans
Not exactly. Most Parisians despise Americans who barge arrogantly into hotels, shops, cafés and restaurants shouting in English and assuming they'll be understood. A simple "Parlez-vous anglais, s'il vous plait?" will make you plenty of friends, in Paris and perhaps even more in provincial France.
Stu "El Inglés" Harris at October 16, 2007 3:04 PM
With only one minor exception, we found all Parisians we encountered to be charming and helpful. But we did our best to try to speak in as much French as we knew, and tried to remember to say "Bonjour, Monsier/Madame" before launching into our request.
deja pseu at October 16, 2007 3:16 PM
I found Parisians very friendly, and it was probably because I tried to speak French to them. Also maybe because I told them I was Canadian, and then they assumed I was fluent in French, which I'm not. I told them to speak slow and simple, and then we got along pretty well.
I think if you visit any country and make an honest attempt to speak their language and adapt to a few customs, people will be very nice to you. Before I went to Rome I took out a language package (including CDs and book) from the library and learned some Italian for about a month. People were pretty nice there too.
Chrissy at October 16, 2007 3:25 PM
Amy, infidelity among French men is very common.
Perhaps infidelity among French people is very common. Perhaps it's no more common than it is in America, amongst Americans. Haven't looked at any figures on that. If you haven't either, it's wise to avoid making such pronouncements.
Deja's "Bonjour, Madame," and "Bonjour, Monsieur," and a smile is pretty much all it takes for people to be nice to you. And Nance, love ya, but there's a world of difference between a French girl in jeans and tennis shoes (they tend to wear ones that aren't big white and galooty when they do wear them, first of all) and this American lady.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 4:02 PM
"Deja's 'Bonjour, Madame,' and 'Bonjour, Monsieur,' and a smile is pretty much all it takes for people to be nice to you."
So true (and I'm a scraggly guy, not a cute chick). For a city supposedly rude to Americans, the place sure is English-friendly. And the Marais certainly had a remarkable choice of Hitchcock (and other classic) revivals to choose from - in a packed house of lively film enthusiasts with the most comfortable theatre chairs I've ever experienced.
This thread makes me want to go back.
snakeman99 at October 16, 2007 4:46 PM
I'm remembering Amy's mate Elliott, who took over La Spano's blog until the LA Times gave it the estocada. Starting from being the Ugly American, Elliott made a little effort (including, as I recall, some one-on-one French convo sessions with a nice-looking woman) and before he knew it, café waitresses were tu-toi-ing him. Mind you, he was a good-looking bloke I believ. It makes a difference, no matter where you are....
Stu "El Inglés" Harris at October 16, 2007 5:05 PM
What about HIM?
One of my colleagues was telling me about his trip with group of Canadian (i.e. not from Montreal) guys to a conference in Europe last year - and he was not the only one embarrassed for them all. He said "We all looked like Homer Simpson next to the Europeans."
Tori - from Canada at October 16, 2007 9:17 PM
Tori - true, he looks a little vanilla, but the collared shirt and dark shoes announce far more effort than his companion. Also, he's a man - more leeway.
snakeman99 at October 16, 2007 9:24 PM
As a woman with a degree in fashion design who loves clothing and is currently employed in the design world, I have to tell you:
It's really very mean and shallow to make fun of people based on their clothing choices. And it's even more reprehensible to photograph them without their permission and publicly mock them on your blog.
Get over yourself.
j_wilkerson at October 16, 2007 10:22 PM
Uh, "reprehensible" is the Muslim cleric calling for the death of Ayan Hirsi Ali.
But, what I want to know is what you think of her outfit.
P.S. FYI, I'm not impressed by a degree in fashion design. One of my friends is a brilliant designer, and couldn't afford to live in NYC when she got a scholarship to FIT.
Amy Alkon at October 16, 2007 11:35 PM
After reading all this clothes-horsing around, I just wanted to agree with crid, nance, speedy, chuck and pirate jo (even if they didn't all say exactly the same thing. I live in (and have been doing so for a long time) a touristy european town and can play spot the tourist with the locals. U.S. Americans are easy, it's not just the clothes, it's the hair and make-up (on the women at least), Italians tend to dress their children up, Russians dress to the nines.....one can make a whole catalogue of variably applicable cliches.
Years ago there was the American Plaid Pants Syndrome, it was thought to be slightly humorous, but never once did I hear anyone suggest that the tourists should be held to a certain standard of europeanized clothing, or that it was deemed necessary that they should disguise their touristyness. There are advantages to flying under the radar, especially given recent politics, but thinking one must almost disguise oneself shows more fear of the unknown (sometimes appropriate), than just showing up in your comfy jacket and shoes.
Perhaps the woman was just shocked at your blurting out at her, thinking that you looked like someone who would never speak to her at home, why should you now. You don't really know what she was thinking, why she was there, or if she cares what you or anybody else thinks. Maybe all her other stuff was lost and her guy's clothes don't fit her so well. Perhaps he grabbed her hand and said to fetch her passport, they are off to France right now, don't pack we will buy everything there, and they hadn't gotten to the stores yet due to intensive croissant eating.
It's easy to judge. Basically we know nothing about this woman other than that she was an American in France. If you had seen me in a large European city in the summer you would perhaps looked disdainfully upon my comfy sneakers (black), but I would have surely been classed among the natives.
Argh, don't get me started on shoes, I have big feet and am often glad to have found anything at all to put on them (hard to get bigger sizes in my touristy town and not all that much choice, but better than years ago). Oh no, a clothes rant is coming on. You care a lot about clothes, luckily for me I don't, because with those big feet go a tall person who even when skin and bones wears a Euro size 42 (French 44,U.S.12?), and even then it in all likelyhood won't fit right. Fashionista stores often don't carry above a 40. Not one single blouse in a large clothing store that fit. Sometimes not one single pair of pants ( at least that I would want, caring enough not to want to look like an old lady). Judging by clothes is an iffy business
ohwell at October 17, 2007 6:30 AM
Judging by clothes is an iffy business
Not really. The other night, I predicted that a girl didn't know who Carl Sagan was...in a bar, from the back. Now, maybe I was just lucky, but I can usually tell a whole lot about people from their clothes. With this woman, I can guess that she made no attempt to find out anything about Paris before going there. See Snakeman99's comment above...it doesn't take much to have a little interest in and respect for how things are done in a place when you go. Also, people in France do say hello to you. Total strangers, all the time. Coming into the courtyard of my friend's building, "Bonjour, madame" an old lady says to me, smiling. I say the same back.
Notice that this woman has her purse slung across her body. I'm guessing, although she's just coming from the direction of the 6th arrondissement, one of the nicer neighborhoods in Paris, she is terrified of being pickpocketed. If she is, she'd be wiser, per my point above, to dress to not scream "I AM AMERICAN AND I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT WHAT'S CONSIDERED PROPER DRESS HERE!"
Amy Alkon at October 17, 2007 7:13 AM
I'm with you Amy! I've lived in Europe a few different times, and it is always easy to spot the other Americans, because they're SLOBS! It's just plain bad manners to look like you're heading out to the dump when you're visiting museums, eating in decent restaurants, or going out for nice shows. People in this country seem not to know that. Thus, people who still remember their manners get to sit in nice restaurants next to adults dressed like enormous toddlers. The men have on sneakers without socks, cargo shorts, t-shirts and ball caps (Don't they know it's rude for men to wear hats indoors?! And if you can't be bothered to at least wear long pants out to a restaurant, stick to McDonalds, please.) Women all seem to wear capris, rubber flip flops and t-shirts. It isn't hard to find simple comfortable appropriate clothing, so why don't Americans bother anymore? I hate shopping too. I get sweaters and simple tops off the internet, and found a seamstress to make simple skirts and pants. I wear them with flat boots that are as comfortable as sneakers and last longer too. You don't need 50 cheap things, a handfull of better quality things will last longer, look better, and cost less in the long run.
redblues at October 17, 2007 7:54 AM
Amy,
You've gone off your trolley when you say her clothes "scream".
Sure, the badly-dressed American tourist is as much as a cultural stereotype as the disdainful Parisian!
But since when has wearing clothes that are quietly drab but practical and wearing your hair in a lovely chignon - as pilloried lady is doing - been any sort of "screaming" fashion crime?
I think you're breaking a butterfly on a wheel!
And as far as being stereotypically nice to tourists goes: New Yorkers are far, far nicer than Parisians. The latter do indeed tend to judge Americans badly - though they will makes charming exceptions for tourists who proclaim themselves 100% charmed by France.
I've lived in France and the USA as a foreigner and - on the whole - Americans live up to their reputation for open-handed hospitality - given the chance- and the French play up their chauvinist stereotype.
Jody Tresidder at October 17, 2007 8:05 AM
Jody, see redblues above. It's something you see a lot of.
What's wrong with not looking like you're cleaning out the garage?
(I love a comment criticizing me for generalizing that goes on to hurl generalizations like shit in a chimp house.)
Amy Alkon at October 17, 2007 8:14 AM
It wasn't about the hello from the French, it was about the hello from you and the possibility that she was judging you also, and by your clothes, as being someone that wouldn't ordinarily greet her in such a way either in France or at home.
Where I live I have never heard one person mention being somehow insulted by how tourists dress, bemused or amused perhaps but more likely not caring one way or another. Never once, how disrespectful of them not to wear nicer shoes, more like how disrespectful of them to tromp loudly around in the cathedral taking flash photos during a service. And that doesn't depend upon clothing.
The snakeman bonjour or the snakeman the guy looks better comment? Like I said the hello was about her reaction to you. Do you think she thought you were French? And the man is probably wearing the same thing he would were he at home, just as she is.
Honestly, "...WHAT'S CONSIDERED PROPER DRESS HERE!" There is a dress code in France? If so, and she is in gross violation of it, then a lot of French are too. I'll say it again she is what she is, most likely a visibly U.S. American tourist (you don't even know that for sure). So what, is she really insulting anyone, she was at least interested enough to go abroad, so I think it's a bit mean to pick on her for not doing it in a way you find appropriate. Maybe it is her very first trip to foreign parts and she is anxious, we weren't all born omniscient, we don't know what she's been told, we don't know how prepared she was or if she cares at all about apparel. Maybe she's not the best ambassador, but then you were there to show the French that some U.S. people have, perhaps, a fashion sense to their liking (as if all liked the same thing).
ohwell at October 17, 2007 8:22 AM
"I love a comment criticizing me for generalizing that goes on to hurl generalizations like shit in a chimp house."
Guilty for flinging smelly generalizations, Amy!
But it was your particular scorn for this not particularly offensive example of a badly-dressed American that moved me to comment.
Jody Tresidder at October 17, 2007 8:25 AM
"P.S. FYI, I'm not impressed by a degree in fashion design. One of my friends is a brilliant designer, and couldn't afford to live in NYC when she got a scholarship to FIT."
Interesting. I actually worked a full-time job while going to fashion school at night so that I could pay my tuition and rent. I was usually up most of the night cutting patterns and fabric to make my school deadlines before having to show up at work the next morning and start all over again.
Perhaps my working-class background is what gave me the belief that it is arrogant and mean-spirited to publicly mock people based on their appearance.
j_wilkerson at October 17, 2007 9:09 AM
I think she looks fine. She's not fat, she's not wearing spandex, and unlike most Germans, her hair's not purple. And you know what Russian tourists look like.
KateCoe at October 17, 2007 9:10 AM
"And you know what Russian tourists look like..."
Yup - worse than Australians:)
Jody Tresidder at October 17, 2007 9:49 AM
I can spot the European tourists in Boston when it's 100 degrees, 80% humidity in the middle of August and they are wearing PANTS. I guess less so now than in the past - esp. w/ younger people.
I really don't care how people dress but pants in that kind of heat when you're doing the whole Freedom Trail shit makes you actually look stupid.
And fanny packs are NEVER okay - there is a man who works somewhere in my building that takes the cake. He is about 40 lbs overweight, wears white sneakers to work and wears a fanny pack over his untucked shirt and it is partially hidden by the midsection-fallout which pour over the top of the pants. And he has a quasi mullet. Wanna dress like that? Fine - but when you're a part of a large multinational finance company you may not get taken as seriously as you'd like. People judge you based on how you dress for work - it sucks. Deal.
Gretchen at October 17, 2007 10:02 AM
All this talk of German tourists reminded me of one of my favorite movies:
http://www.amazon.com/Bagdad-Cafe-Marianne-S%C3%A4gebrecht/dp/B00005BKZJ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7571809-3558351?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1192644756&sr=1-1
deja pseu at October 17, 2007 11:14 AM
I'm planning to go to Cuba in January, and have been told it's teaming with German tourists. What do I have to watch out for?
Chrissy at October 17, 2007 11:34 AM
Accordions.
deja pseu at October 17, 2007 12:12 PM
Beer steins & weinerschnitzles.
Fynne at October 17, 2007 12:26 PM
...eating all the bacon at buffet breakfast bars (this is true of vacationing Germans, I've seen it!)
Jody Tresidder at October 17, 2007 12:51 PM
Per popular tourism mythology, the Germans all get up at 5 a.m. and swipe all the best beach spots by laying their towels down as a 'claim'.
I've been told that Cuba is teaming [sic] with whores. Keep an eye open for them and report back, please....
Stu "El Inglés" Harris at October 17, 2007 3:32 PM
"And fanny packs are NEVER okay"
*Unless you're a steroid body-builder. Somehow these folks drape two garbage bags and a fanny pack over their enormous frames and look passable.
To frump apologists - I think its important to note that Amy regularly rails against the down-dressers, regardless of locale. But when travelling abroad, there is an added incentive in respecting the local custom. But, hey - you want to be one of those people that only dresses nicely for your 9-to-5, be my guest. I'll be over there with the attractive people.
snakeman99 at October 17, 2007 7:02 PM
> WHAT'S CONSIDERED
> PROPER DRESS HERE!"
Amy, by whom? Do the busboys and taxi drivers and neurosurgeons at the end of their shifts give a rat's ass how American tourists are dressed? No? Then where do we draw the line? Who are you trying to impress?
You have this fantasy of that town as being a special land of elegance and beauty, a Star Trek parallel universe where everything's sophisticated and --as Snake puts it, "attractive", where your snottiest aspirations and pettiest distinctions are somehow animated with ambient justice. It's magic place where some pathetically naive ideas about a well-rounded life are held traded as greater currency.
This fantasy has been going on in the United States for hundreds of years. That just means it's old, that doesn't mean it's good. (Apparently Jefferson's wife had a bad case of it, though she may have had other reasons to visit France as well....)
Again, people, look at the man in the photo above... That's casual Friday for successful businessman. His wife told him no, he shouldn't wear his three-piece suit for their vacation, so this was as dressed down and comfortable as he could be, still ready to review that bid from DaytonCorp Financial if necessary.
A little fashion insanity can be rollicking good fun for everyone, but you guys need to keep your obsessions under control.
How exactly does a fanny back interfere with the conduct of your life so grievously? People keep some of their shit in there, that's all. Cellphones, funny bus tokens, cameras, that kind of thing.
Sheesh.
Crid at October 17, 2007 7:58 PM
As an American ex-pat who's lived in Europe for almost 30 years, I agree with Amy's basic premise that it's unfortunate and unnecessary (not a crime, not reprehensible) when Americans dress inappropriately in European cities. That's all -- it's just a pity, and an easily avoidable one at that. Some of these posts seem to reflect a belief that appropriate dress and comfort are an either/or choice. The woman in the photo, who certainly does appear to give off the typical American tourist vibe and in that sense is representative of the breed, could have easily dressed appropriately by exchanging (1) the blue windbreaker with an equally lightweight and practical hip-length trench coat (it could even be blue, if that's what she likes) and (2) the white jogging shoes for cool sneakers (I'm thinking suede Adidas or something along that line) or nice ankle boots. I believe Amy's point is that American tourists could, with just minimal effort, dress appropriately and still be perfectly comfortable.
And my advice is that you can pack much, much lighter that way too. The basic outfit above, plus tops for 1/4 of the days of your trip (min. 3 tops), a 2nd pair of killer trousers or a skirt, underwear, toiletries, and you're set. (Remember that you'll probably buy additional clothes on your trip.) It's not difficult to look appropriate, and that's basically what Amy is lamenting.
Personally, I find that tired and aching feet after a day of sightseeing are more likely due to wearing shoes without support, rather than the height of the heel per se. Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone go sightseeing in spike heels, but a moderate heel on a nice pair of boots does make a flattering silouette. Or sneakers, as I mentioned above, as long as you know the difference between cool sneakers and jogging shoes.
To me, it comes down to an issue of respect, not fashion fascism. The point Amy is making here, which seems to have been misunderstood by some, is that American tourists may believe that dressing isn't important, that they don't care what other people wear and therefore other people shouldn't care - shouldn't even notice - how they are dressed. Well, the fact is that Europeans do notice. They just do. Whether you think that's dumb or unwarranted or petty, they still do.
But, Crid, I did get a smirk out of you telling Amy to be nice to people. Now there's the pot calling the kettle black. And another thing: Your "sheesh" goes both ways. If appropriate dressing is so petty and unimportant, then why can't American tourists just make that small effort not to call so much attention to themselves? Surely they could do such a small thing to show others some respect.
Marie at October 17, 2007 11:34 PM
> why can't American tourists
> just make that small effort
Why bother?
Crid at October 18, 2007 12:19 AM
Marie gets it.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 1:51 AM
I'll reiterate: respect. Towards others as well as towards oneself.
Marie at October 18, 2007 5:03 AM
On second thought, Crid, I'll recast my argument. Forget about respect, if that's such a trivial issue for you, not worth the bother. In that case, American tourists might just consider dressing appropriately for purely selfish reasons: to be treated better. Someone in an earlier post lamented that Americans are treated so poorly in Europe, particularly in Paris. Yes, that's the common American perception, heard it a thousand times (never once experienced it myself however). But that is exactly why the breed of American tourists we are discussing here would be well-advised to consider the possiblity that, however unintentionally, they in fact offend the locals, who react in an, uh, offended manner. Is this really so difficult to grasp? To all tourists dressed like dorks, I wish I could say: go ahead, be oblivious to local sensitivities and wear whatever the hell you want. Then go home and complain about being treated poorly. Sure got the most out of your pricey European vacation, didntcha?
So, to answer your question "Why bother?", consider it as an easy way to leverage your investment.
Marie at October 18, 2007 5:30 AM
And respect towards others includes not picking this woman out making assumptions about her and berating her in a very public forum as if she were wearing flip-flops, cut-offs and a loose halter top at an opera premiere. Around 30 years in Europe and not once has anyone voiced to me feeling not respected, insulted or hurt in any way by seeing a tourist tromping around the streets dressed like this lady. Disrespectful to the French because of her shoes and jacket after travelling thousands of miles to visit their country?Some may have fashion Asperger's, but some seem to have fashion OCD.
"Clothes make the man", and "you can't judge a book by it's cover".
ohwell at October 18, 2007 5:47 AM
Marie,
You argue beautifully. My only problem is that blue windbreaker lady is not by an stretch an eye-wateringly shocking example of Naff American Tourist!!
She's not a huge, saggy short wearing horror in a "Bite Me!" sweatshirt.
Windbreaker lady could probably benefit from a hipper jacket and Donna Karan trainers, sure.
But I simply can't gurgle in disbelief at her inoffensively low-key, practical outfit.
Jody Tresidder at October 18, 2007 6:01 AM
Shoe tip for ohwell: I sympathize with your dilemma. Check out the stores in northern Germany, particulary Berlin, and The Netherlands for great shoes in large sizes. The women in those parts are (statistically) the tallest in Europe, and the shoe stocks reflect this. You'll find plenty of pretty, feminine styles in larger sizes. I myself am 5'10" and wear a size 10 US (41 European) and nevertheless love heels and anything girly. I live in Zurich and Locarno, where the shoes I want tend to be available only up to size 40, as you correctly mentioned, but every year I visit a friend in Berlin, of course with an empty suitcase for my footwear escapades.
Marie at October 18, 2007 6:15 AM
I knew I spelled 'teaming' wrong-damn it - I'm addicted to spell check and have gotten quite lazy.
Now that I have been warned, I will get up at 4 am, grab all the bacon at the buffet and hide it, stake my spot at the beach and then go off and investigate the hookers.
Chrissy at October 18, 2007 6:25 AM
Tresidder: agreed. Totally agreed.
Marie at October 18, 2007 6:28 AM
That's nice of you Marie, I'm o.k. for shoes for now. My tootsies are not only size 43/44 (european), but a bit weird. Long story that, they get me around, but you will likely never find me in heels for longer that an hour or so. Was in Berlin, shoes zero (o.k. I'll admit it, lack of patience and research, other things were more interesting). I get shoes when I find them, because I can't find them when I need them, got lucky recently. But a while back I spent half a year looking for plain old walk anywhere shoes and ended up getting shoes i didn't particularly like just to keep from having wet feet. Maybe that's why I'm especially sensitive to shoe judgementalism.
Ah, and I wrote confusingly; the sizes I mentioned were for clothes. Another whole chapter.
Gruezi!
ohwell at October 18, 2007 6:57 AM
Jesus Christ in heaven, you people are flying snot rockets.
> And respect towards others includes
> not picking this woman out
Don't be a priss. If you walk out the door in the morning, people will make judgments about you.
> as if she were wearing flip-
> flops, cut-offs and a loose
> halter top at an opera premiere.
So suddenly your problem isn't harsh judgment of strangers, it's just a difference set of criteria... Including, for some....
> a huge, saggy short wearing
> horror in
...Body mass index.
What exactly is admirable about someone who thinks they can (or others should) move through the world in a condition of edge-cutting sexual allure, just powerful enough to be felt by the commenter, yet not obvious enough to give offense to the commenter's loving spouse?
Remember the new rule of human nature: The need to look down on others is as inherent in us as the love of music. By choosing this cosmopolitan city as the venue for these nasal-clearings of yours, you pretend to have saved a lot of time in describing the nature of elegance. But I think you've misjudged the meaning of sophistication, giving some grown-up names to some really childish fears.
Hey, Marie: Your ass looks fat in those pants!
Crid at October 18, 2007 7:16 AM
Emmanuelle Richard on Crocs:
http://www.emmanuelle.net/2007/10/oyez_mordus_de_crocs_croc_nut.html
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 7:22 AM
Holy crap, Amy, your dissing people for wearing the wrong thing, and I just saw a clip of you on Nightline wearing cow pants. What the hell?
jamie at October 18, 2007 8:16 AM
But I suppose since you were wearing them, they are "fashionable".
jamie at October 18, 2007 8:17 AM
Uh, jamie, they're pants with newsprint on them. Sorry about your prescription. See eyeglassdirect.com for help.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 8:19 AM
Here they are:
View image
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 8:25 AM
Actually, here they are a little closer:
Newsprint pants, a little closer.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 8:43 AM
Thank god, cow pants scare me.
jamie at October 18, 2007 12:02 PM
But seriously, "tell me this: What is it that compels people to hop on somebody's blog and make nasty comments about their looks?" So we can make nasty comments about random people, but not about bloggers?
jamie at October 18, 2007 12:08 PM
Amy, I've told you how much I enjoy your posts about how much money you save clothes shopping, and how you picked out fantastic vintage on ebay or at resale shops- I always quiz Emmanuelle on this, too! And this is one of your best outfits yet.
So I totally don't get why you wrote this mean-spirited post.
I guess everyone sees something different. Every single time I look at this photo I see two adventurous (they went abroad, didn't they), spirited, excited people holding hands in a most tender way, on a delightfully cloudy day that I miss so much out here, and I wonder what it's like to be them, and I daydream that I can do the same someday. Yes, I do.
So then I have to go back to the photo to see what you were writing about.
I just don't see why you wrote all this about her. She's not in competition with you. As other commenters have said, we don't know if she lost luggage, or if her best jacket has a big stain on it that would embarrass her more than the windbreaker. Maybe she knew as soon as she hit the street that that was the wrong thing to wear, but they were late for a museum, and she didn't have time to go back and change.
It's not that they were rude, or inconvenienced anyone, or that she was dressed like a pros.
About the purse slung across her body: again, didn't notice that until you pointed it out, but how mean of you to criticize that. I have small shoulders (even after doing weights), or maybe it's just the way I'm built, but shoulder purses never ever stay on, so when I go out in public I have to sling it across, or swing it like a slingshot. (And my purse was stolen that way, on a sunny afternoon on a main street in LA.) I hate it, but I'm not going to put everything in pockets. Fortunately, I collect vintage purses, so when I'm not going anyplace boring like the PO I carry a handle purse, but that does interfere with holding a drink and a plate, and shaking hands, and so forth.
We all do the best we can.
Donna B. at October 18, 2007 1:24 PM
"tell me this: What is it that compels people to hop on somebody's blog and make nasty comments about their looks?"
Oh, how silly.
This reminds me of the angry letters I get from readers chastising me for being harsh with my advice to some ANONYMOUS person I'm responding to. I could've gotten a picture of this lady's face. I did not. I hung back to take a photo of her from behind because my point wasn't to attack her, specifically, but to discuss this in general: A woman who goes to a place and seems terrified to be recognized as an American, yet makes zero effort to find out what's considered appropriate in the place she's going.
It takes very little to be treated well in Paris. Smile, and know about five words of French:
Bonjour, Merci, Bonjour Madame, and Bonjour Monsieur.
And dress appropriately. Even in the most minimal way. Hint: You are not going to be raking leaves.
FYI, you're free to tell me whatever you think about me. Clearly, since I don't erase critical comments about me.
As for cow pants, they're a bit saccharine and cliché for me, but I do like a bold pattern. Dress like you're going to a party and the party just might come to you. Dress like you're going to clean the garden and somebody might try to hand you a rake.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 2:00 PM
we don't know if she lost luggage,
Another good reason not to dress like you're cleaning out the garage when you're getting on a plane. I lost my luggage for five days when I was in Italy at the Festivaletteratura. I didn't look my glammy best, but because I don't fly in slob-wear, nobody handed me a broom and dustpan either.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 2:03 PM
We all do the best we can.
Now, that's a big steaming pile if ever I've seen one!
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 2:04 PM
That was classy, Amy.
No woman wants to be unattractive, so my remark stands.
Donna B. at October 18, 2007 3:56 PM
I didn't expect you to take it back. But, surely, you don't believe "We all do the best we can"? Walk out your door and look left and right, and you'll see myriad examples that suggest otherwise.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2007 3:59 PM
Crid darling, I can assure you, my ass looks fat in just about all pants, except for my extremely well-cut Street One jeans. No problem -- I mostly wear skirts to showcase my killer gams. Picture it: belted, with heels. Fat ass my ass.
To Amy: Let's drop it, dear. The indignant posters on this thread just don't get it, and who cares? I vaguely suppose they're the sore thumbs I'll be seeing sometime on the streets of European cities. To them I say: no whining about poor treatment in Europe. No. Whining. (Actually, I'm surprised The Oblivious even notice -- they don't seem to notice anything else).
This discussion isn't so much about the particular woman in your photo, but was dealing with a certain level of abstraction. That evidently flew over most heads.
To Tresidder: I guess we zeroed in on the gal in the photo because she's, let's say, such a near miss. She somehow triggers the makeover instinct, whereas the utterly hopeless do not.
Marie at October 19, 2007 12:26 AM
Exactly, Marie.
Amy Alkon at October 19, 2007 12:53 AM
> This discussion isn't so much
> about the particular woman in
> your photo, but was dealing
> with a certain level of abstraction.
> That evidently flew over most heads.
This is wrong in all respects, doubling down on the very errors being discussed. It's circuitously mistaken. It's metaphysically incorrect. Grad students in phenomenology at Ohio State Universiety's Dept of Philosophy are going to be writing to you to ask for interviews, and some of them may bring friends from the medical school to do novel neurological investigations.
Crid at October 19, 2007 6:55 AM
"It's metaphysically incorrect."
Don't you also mean metaphorically incorrect, Crid?
(At least Marie didn't say the level of abstraction literally flew over most heads.)
Jody Tresidder at October 19, 2007 8:08 AM
This thread has more legs than a flock 'o' Scotsmen!
deja pseu at October 19, 2007 9:41 AM
Let's see, who is this post really about?
Two pictures, two women. Lots of "I" and lots of "she." One woman who didn't know her picture was being taken, or that she would be described to the world. One who knew it and did the describing.
Wonder what this post would be like if the assuming, presuming and characterizing were removed.
Maybe the look you took, accurately or not, for terror was simply a reasonable reaction to being accosted by you and your "big" hello. I'm pretty sure that if I were minding my own business in Paris, Peoria, San Francisco or you name it, and were surprised by an unexpected big hello from someone I didn't know from Adam, my look might not be one of exuberant joy. And it appears that your hello came from behind the woman, as she “looked back” at you. So maybe it was just your big hello.
You must have been in rare form that day blurting out big hellos and flouncing across bridges. But I’m confused about the staging here, although I recognize your right to poetic license. You turn to them, but she has to look back at you – all within the space of time it takes to utter several words. More important, given the place they are at as you take the picture, and the direction they are headed, the whole situation becomes problematic. They are not yet on the bridge, yet you have started from the same light, crossed the street, walked out on the bridge, doubled (or is it flounced?) back behind them (passing them again?) and taken your picture. They were not on the bridge when you took this picture, and neither were you.
The subconscious is a wonderful thing. You didn’t forget to post this in September. Your sometimes very bright mind wisely told you not to. But then it spoke quietly, and you forgot what it told you.
blackwatch at October 19, 2007 11:24 PM
Maybe the look you took, accurately or not, for terror was simply a reasonable reaction to being accosted by you and your "big" hello.
I've been practicing coming off less goofy and more imposing. Perhaps it's working!
After all, you're apparently too terrified to post in your own name.
Of course, it's possible that my appraisal of the woman was correct. In Paris, doesn't care enough to dress appropriately for the place, and then worried that people know she's American...when she's pretty much shouting it.
Amy Alkon at October 20, 2007 1:00 AM
See, I read this entire comment thread for the answer to the mysterious question, "How in God's name does Amy pack?" And have not gotten it. Because presumably that jacket spent five days as prisoner of Air France (Alitalia?) and yet does not appear wrinkled in the slightest. (The skirt's a nice touch, since wrinkles won't show.)
I just came back from a three-day trip which was by and large spent interacting with future colleagues and potential employers. Fortunately the event was business casual, so the fact that I forgot my good gray blazer was not a big deal, but if I had remembered it I'm not sure how I would have brought it from Atlanta to Milwaukee without adding all kinds of wrinkles. Also fortunately there was an iron in the room. Long and short of it was, I didn't look like the woman in the picture (who undoubtedly was thinking of the walking, not the impressing the Amys or Parisians she might encounter, when she packed) but I didn't look fabulous like Amy or my friend from UMass-Amherst, either.
Also: from where did the orange denim jacket come?
Jessica at October 22, 2007 7:18 AM
Thanks...I actually buy stuff that doesn't wrinkle. I don't own a single linen item, because linen looks like crap on you from THE moment you put it on.
Orange denim jacket, on sale at a store on Main Street, Santa Monica, $19. Store is still there, lots of bright cotton clothes in the window
P.S. If you wear tight clothes, any wrinkles come out when you put them on.
Amy Alkon at October 22, 2007 7:21 AM
This is about how I dress when I travel most places. (Unless I am going out for dinner or need a skirt/headscarf for modesty.)
I am not an American. I have never shopped at WalMart or its analogues and never would. I have never even BEEN to Ohio, or to any city with a population under a few million (some European capitals excluded). I have no fear of pickpockets. I just make different choices than you when it comes to clothes, and I manage to do it without inventing an abhorrent personality for people who are not exactly like me. Has it ever occurred to you that not everyone can be easily judged by a 15-second drive-by bitch session?
The idea that someone over 13 would be so immature and bitchy about a stranger's dress sense is appalling.
thebookmistress at October 22, 2007 8:07 AM
There are good reasons not to dress like you are cleaning out the garage in Paris, and if you are not dressed that way, you will have a much different experience.
Again, critiquing a style of dress with a photograph of somebody from the back is not an evil and terrible thing. It's a topic of discussion.
A question for you...headscarf? Why do you wear a headscarf?
No, I'm not "tolerant," in case that was not perfectly clear. In fact, I'd like to see a whole lot more intolerance for belief, without evidence, in god, and the disgusting treatment of women that comes out of it.
Amy Alkon at October 22, 2007 8:12 AM
If you wear tight clothes, any wrinkles come out when you put them on.
HA. Let me lose the extra weight needed to get back into my favorite black and brown pants, and I will get back to you on that.
Jessica at October 22, 2007 11:58 AM
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ysbtpjnzi apyxel at October 2, 2008 5:05 AM
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fellapres at February 26, 2009 5:04 AM
Look for local, national and international news stories.
Thelma at May 15, 2011 8:23 PM
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