Who Would Speak Up For The Little Doggie?
I've barely been able to look at the stories of the poor dog dying on the United flight -- after a flight attendant placed the dog in the overhead compartment.
Karol Markowitz writes in the New York Post about how nobody on that flight did anything for that poor dog:
Kokito was dead before the flight landed at LaGuardia Airport.How could this happen?
The flight attendant is claiming she wasn't aware there was a dog in the carrier, but this is implausible. The dog's owner and her 11-year old daughter insist they informed the attendant and witnesses support their account, and even say the dog was barking.
...But something is deeply wrong here: No one did anything to stop the stewardess.
One person uncritically following an authority figure is understandable. A planeful of people doing the same is terrifying.
This incident doesn't exist in a vacuum. When someone goes to put a dog into an overhead compartment, there should be a chorus of voices to say it's a bad idea -- and stop them if they persist. That there wasn't is a bad sign for our society.
I agree. These are the same people who shuffle compliantly through TSA lines, getting their bodies and rights violated by repurposed mall food court workers dressed up to look like cops.
There's this:
The dog allegedly barked for two hours, then stopped. The family wanted to check on the dog but because of turbulence were told to stay in their seats. They followed the rules at all cost.
You owe your dog. You owe it to the point where you possibly get arrested on a flight checking on its well-being.
If you aren't willing to go that far, you have no business having a dog.
And even if you don't have a dog, what kind of human being are you if you don't stand up?
You might be afraid, sure -- but you are what you do, the sum total of what you do.
Also, as Markowitz points out, there's a broader issue here.
Stepping in on behalf of others should become something we routinely do. If you find yourself in a situation where you're thinking "somebody should do something," make that somebody you, and teach your children to become the type of people who would do the same.It isn't enough to "see something, say something." We must feel obligated to do something.
I would like to think I would be that guy, so damn right you better believe I would be, however, in the defense of the owner and those on the plane:
It's not for the owner to know that there is not enough air in an overhead compartment, especially after the flight attendant tells you that's where the dog must go.
We are all told that interfering with a crew violates Federal Laws.
And as for the other passengers, there is the bystander effect, well no one else is doing anything, so it seems weird but somehow it must be okay.
So I won't go so far as to say you have no business owning a dog, but I will agree with you it's outrageous, people should be told and taught to do better, and much of this comes down from the ridiculous security theater post 911.
As not a lawyer, I do think that if you're at the gate, you have a lot of rights to tell the airline you want off, and I do think the best ethical action for other passengers in many of these cases, as much as it sucks, is to demand the crew stand down, or if not, demand they let you off the plane.
But be prepared for retaliation from the airline and probably not just that airline but many airlines.
So there is that too, who knows, speak out, and you could be blackballed.
And it happened again just tonight were Southwest forced a father and his two year old daughter off a flight because she had earlier been crying too much. At least one other passenger who took video said Southwest's actions weren't called for.
jerry at March 15, 2018 10:42 PM
Until reading this story, I had no idea that putting a dog in the overhead bin could be deadly. I never once thought about lack of air circulation up there.
So, I wouldn't have said or done anything because, quite frankly, I didn't know it was dangerous.
I've talked to a few friends about this as well and not one of them knew it could be deadly to put a dog in the overhead bin.
So, I don't think people didn't say anything because they had been conditioned not to (although that probably plays a role in airline travel in general), but because they assumed the stewardess knew what she was doing and that the dog would be fine.
Suzanne Lucas at March 16, 2018 12:42 AM
Yikes, if you fly with United, don't ever do it with your pets
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/24-pets-died-flying-with-us-carriers-last-year-18-were-on-united-flights_us_5aa861e1e4b001c8bf14c85f
Sixclaws at March 16, 2018 5:28 AM
One reason I got a tiny dog the first time around -- with Lucy, my Yorkie -- is that I intended to travel with her. I would never, ever, ever put a dog under the plane. Never. My dog goes under my seat in a carrier. Period. If were told I had to put her under the plane, I would get off the flight. If I were told the dog had to go in the overhead, I would ask to speak to a supervisor and the pilot.
Now, everyone is not me. I just completed a book on how to be confident and worked very hard to become confident. However, being afraid is not reason to do nothing -- when a tiny creature you are bound to protect is put at risk. And let's say somebody is too afraid to do something. Somebody needs to speak up.
Amy Alkon at March 16, 2018 5:46 AM
Sometimes, the proper response is "no". Not angrily, not contentiously, just a simple no. No, my dog isn't going into the overhead bin. S/he is already nervous enough - so many people, so many smells, such a confined space, so much noise and confusion - and now you'll put them in a darkened space were they can smell and hear, but not know what's going on and be near someone they know and trust and can reassure them that it'll be OK?
Probably not suffocation of and by itself, but rather sheer fear killed the poor dog.
I R A Darth Aggie at March 16, 2018 7:05 AM
As someone who has family who works as flight attendants this story bothers me on many levels
When first reported the dog wasnt in a pet carrier, and the bag it was in was jutting out into the aisle
Then it was in a pet carrier, but jutting out into the aisle, now its being reported that it was in their lap and was small enough to fit under the seat yet they were having problems getting it under there
To date, not one journalist has taken a photo of this bag so we the public can see it for ourselves
Also, flight attendants dont bother to make people put bags in bin until everyone is on board and they are doing the final safety check AFTER closing and securing the doors and before they can leave the terminal - so why hadnt they in all that time secured the bag under the seat?
Ive seen dozens of times where FA will ignore small bags that could fit under the seat so long as passengers had them on the floor at their feet, so why was the dog & bag still in their laps?
Finally overhead bins dont seal hermetically so there really isnt a lack of air problem.
There is a heat and anxiety problem which can be killers for french bulldogs as they have been bread to 'look cute' to the determent of their overall health, but that is something owners of the breed should be aware of, not the public at large
No doubt the FA was wrong to put the dog in the overhead bin, she should have booted them entirely for refusing to properly stow the pet under the seat in front of them after all that time
lujlp at March 16, 2018 7:21 AM
Nor did I, Suzanne. It's in the pressurized part of the plane (not "underneath"). I wonder if the flight attendant knew it was dangerous or if she believed it was safe.
Flight attendants deal with a lot of unruly passengers, people who insist their pet yak is a comfort animal and should be allowed to fly with them. How many times have we on this forum commented on stories about pets making noise and running up and down the aisles, unruly children, etc. disrupting flights and wondered why the flight attendant couldn't get control.
We see it occasionally. I suspect flight attendants have become a bit jaded when it comes to people telling them how "special" their pets or children are. So, someone insisting on keeping their dog anywhere but where it is supposed to go is old hat to them.
Obeying the orders of a flight attendant is a federal law, or so they keep telling us during the safety lecture. I'm sure that has gone to more than a few flight attendants' heads. "I'm federal, bitch!"
As for the people standing around, I'll bet you not one of them knew the overhead bin was a dangerous place. How many movies to you see where a passenger is shoved into the overhead bin. When that story broke, I had just watched situation comedy about a minor airline in which the co-piolot was sleeping in the overhead bin.
I'd bet all the other passengers saw was a flight attendant, perhaps a little drunk on her authority, trying to get the plane ready and some passengers insisting their yappy dog was "special" and didn't need to be all the way under the seat.
I've watched on flights before as passengers insist on keeping a bag between their feet when it won't fit under the seat in front of them. Um, folks, that's an airborne missile if we have problems and it blocks the escape route for other people in that aisle.
Being inside a metal tube with 150+ surly, sweaty passengers while hurling through the air at 35,000 feet tends to bring out the worst in people, even the ones who should, by now, be used to it.
OTOH, you'd think that if 75% of the transported pets that died on domestic flights died on your airline, you'd take a look at your procedures and make some adjustments. Have your CEO call Delta's CEO and find out what they do. After the Dao ejection went viral, you'd think United would have been on the lookout for potential PR disasters.
United used to be my airline of choice when I was a frequent flyer. They had good service - both in the air and at the airport. Their security line at SFO moved the fastest. Their ticket agents were polite and efficient. I've used up all my frequent flyer miles, so now I just use the cheapest airline and they all suck. United seems to be the airline industry's whipping boy these days.
Conan the Grammarian at March 16, 2018 7:43 AM
Oh, Conan, let me quote Instapundit for ya:
Like the old Bell System, their motto seems to be: “We don’t care, because we don’t have to."
South Park did this for the cable monopolies. https://youtu.be/ZLU8huUzfSk Not for the faint of heart. "...the customer is always our bitch."
I R A Darth Aggie at March 16, 2018 8:43 AM
Whicle I agree pet owners have a duty of care to their animals, it isnt quite the same as we have to our children or other people.
All travel isnt necessarily optional and sometimes we are forced to traumatize people, children and pets for the greater good.
When my husband and I bring his kitty back from Japan, Suna will travel in the hold on the military plane, because it is his only option, and a whole lot less traumatic than what his last set of owners did, which was throw him out into woods on the Air Base to fend for himself for three months.
He is a lovely guy, but to get to Wyoming he has to get on two planes.
Clearly this was a comedy of errors on United, and who knows that it wasn't the dogs physiology that killed him. People die on planes too, and we haven't been bred to have ornamental pushed in noses.
Isab at March 16, 2018 8:45 AM
> People die on planes too,
> and we haven't been bred
> to have ornamental pushed
> in noses.
Strong, early contender for Amy's Comment of the Year™.
Crid at March 16, 2018 9:15 AM
I was put in the overhead bin as a nap as a toddler... it was open though. And the 70s.
NicoleK at March 16, 2018 9:29 AM
The old Bell system was a monopoly. United is not. Once airline deregulation started in the '70s, under Carter not Reagan, companies long accustomed to treating the customer as their bitch found themselves struggling to overcome the public's animosity built up by years of indifference. Once the monopoly was broken, MCI and GTE moved quickly to exploit the public's dislike of AT&T.
AT&T's status as a monolith was parodied in the movie, The President's Analyst, in which James Coburn plays a mild-mannered psychiatrist hired to help the president deal with his fears, only to find himself hounded by a mysterious entity known as "TPC" angling to know what's going on in the president's head. A foreign power? A domestic spy agency? A government conspiracy? No, The Phone Company.
Cable systems were also monopolies, at least until the advent of satellite dish networks and DSL. Notice how cable's customer service and array of options got better once it had competition.
Conan the Grammarian at March 16, 2018 9:32 AM
You all kinda suck as people - well not Amy. First, Lujlp, there is a picture of the bag, with the dog dead inside the bag. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=french+bulldog+death+on+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
Second, even if the FA had no idea the dog was in the carrier when she instructed the owner to put the bag in overhead, she definitely knew the dog was in there when it started barking.
Third, I don't put people over my animals, but if I had paid to have my dog on the flight with me (not in the cargo hold, I have a bulldog), I'd go toe to toe with that FA no problem. But that's my responsibility as the pet owner - not everyone else's on the flight.
Fourth, the owner of that Frenchie clearly did not understand the nature and responsibility of owning a brachiocephalic breed. They can have breathing issues even in ideal conditions. Couple that with "breeders" trying to get the faces as flat as possible with the perfect "layback" of the nose and the smallest nares possible, and well we know how that ended.
It was not a comedy of errors, it was not a fluke. It was two uneducated people that caused Kokito's death - the FA and the owner. Doesn't mean I don't feel terrible for the family, I absolutely do. I'm sure they loved Kokito. But to the FA...save it sister, I don't believe your lies.
sara at March 16, 2018 11:02 AM
Oops, typo...brachycephalic - not brachiocephalic.
sara at March 16, 2018 11:07 AM
(1) Animals go in the hold
(2) Fat people who cannot fit in the Human Sizer (installed next to the luggage sizer) must purchase enough seats to accommodate their special needs
(3) Raise ticket prices to allow the airlines to make a profit from fewer seats with actual leg room
(4) No alcohol served or allowed on board
(5) No drunks allowed to board
(6) Pay the crew for their time, not just when the doors are closed/wheels are up
(7) Install security cameras for evidence - and disrupting a flight gets you a minimum 90 day Federal sentence, no exceptions, no probation
(8) No carry-on luggage larger than a briefcase allowed
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 16, 2018 11:10 AM
(1) Animals go in the hold
You misspelled "babies."
Kevin at March 16, 2018 11:50 AM
Yeah, if that photo is accurate then that could have fit under the seat.
So why wasnt it already there by the time the FA did the safety check?
lujlp at March 16, 2018 2:06 PM
I don't really see why anyone has to travel with a pet, unless they are moving. If it is vacation or something, leave it at home with a sitter.
Stormy at March 16, 2018 2:55 PM
I too wouldn't have guessed an overhead to be fatal, none I have seen/used seemed close to air tight.
Thinking about it now, if cause of death was asphyxiation or overheating, my guess would be the air holes of the carrier/bag were covered by walls of the overhead or other luggage at some point in a shifting/turbulent flight, rather than the overhead being air tight.
Joe J at March 16, 2018 4:53 PM
"(7) Install security cameras for evidence - and disrupting a flight gets you a minimum 90 day Federal sentence, no exceptions, no probation"
Good luck with that. As it is, a felon in possession of a GUN is supposed to be subject to 5 years & $100K. It's never enforced.
Radwaste at March 17, 2018 7:52 AM
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