New York Times Reporter Calls For Censorship
We see this sort of thing so often these days -- especially, it seems, in younger people (like college students and those whose college years aren't all that far behind them). I'm talking about calls to regulate "hate speech."
The New York Times Kevin Roose, most disturbingly, seems to think it would be a dandy idea to have a redo of that First Amendment thingie and give ourselves some nice German-style censorship:
If it wanted to, Congress could address the issue of hateful content by adopting strict hate speech laws like the ones that exist in Germany, which make social platforms liable if they fail to remove hate speech in a timely manner.
Kevin Roose?
Kevin Roose is a columnist for Business Day and a writer-at-large for The New York Times Magazine. His column, "The Shift," examines the intersection of technology, business, and culture....is writing has been included in Best American Business Writing, and in 2015, he was named to Forbes's "30 Under 30" list.
Under 30 in 2015. Check!
The reality is, punishing awful speech doesn't make the thoughts behind it go away -- it just shoves them underground.
It's allowing racist and other ugly ideas to be expressed that allows us to have the kind of discussion that can change the thinking behind them.
And I say that as a kid who grew up Jewish and bullied for it but who, as a young teen (in a debate at my temple), still argued that the Nazis should be allowed to march in Skokie.
And finally, I have to ask: What do you think it is about "kids today" that leads them to be the generation that I would guess is probably most clueless ever about the merits of the First Amendment and civil liberties in general?
What do you think it is about "kids today" that leads them to be the generation that I would guess is probably most clueless ever
That they're taught by "teachers today."
dee nile at April 12, 2018 3:49 AM
They want everyone to look different, but think the same.
Snoopy at April 12, 2018 4:28 AM
What do you think it is about "kids today" that leads them to be the generation that I would guess is probably most clueless ever about the merits of the First Amendment and civil liberties in general?
They never had to fight for it.
roadgeek at April 12, 2018 4:51 AM
Who decides what is hate speech?
Jay at April 12, 2018 5:53 AM
"What do you think it is about "kids today""
Don't trust anyone over 30 - Jack Weinberg, 1964
Ben at April 12, 2018 6:24 AM
Kevin Roose, I accept your proposal. You write the law.
I get to determine what hate speech is.
For instance, Jimmah Kimmel recently mocked a legal immigrant for her accent. HATE CRIME! To the gulag, Kimmel. 25 years!!
Wait...not what you had in mind, Roose? show me the man, I'll show you the crime.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 12, 2018 6:46 AM
They never had to fight for it.
Once I start defining what hate speech is, they'll be well motivated to fight for their right to be free after speech.
That's a riff on the Polish commie years joke that Poland and the US both provided for freedom of speech, the difference being that in the US you remained free after speaking out.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 12, 2018 6:51 AM
They're so cute at this stage!! ("kids" like Mr. Roose, that is..)
He seems not to have learned yet about things like unintended consequences, and blowback.
Brad Kelley at April 12, 2018 7:11 AM
Because when you're looking for historic models of tolerance and freedom, Germany is top of mind.
Conan the Grammarian at April 12, 2018 7:33 AM
Kids today!
Kids have always had an absolutist worldview. Having very little long-term experience, kids think complex problems can be solved with simple solutions. It's the trait that gives them optimism for the future.
It's when we put them in charge that we run into problems - not in charge as in holding the office, but in charge as in tailoring policy to their desires and beliefs in order to win their votes.
Because the Baby Boom was a large generational cohort, it exerted undue influence on public policy. As a result, we started large government programs intended to solve all our problems, like the never-ending War on Poverty, the EPA, and an educational complex with ever-nuttier and increasingly ineffective ideas about teaching Johnny to read.
The Millennial generation is the next out-sized generational cohort. And because of it, we're about to get decades of emotion-based public policy and infringements on our freedoms.
As adults, it's our job to guide them, not to pander to them.
Conan the Grammarian at April 12, 2018 7:46 AM
Don't you just love it when a self-styled journalist comes down against the First Amendment?
Patrick at April 12, 2018 8:07 AM
The situation isn't much different among young lawyers -
"A student shouted out “Fuck the law.” This comment stunned me. I replied, “Fuck the law? That’s a very odd thing. You are all in law school. And it is a bizarre thing to say fuck the law when you are in law school.” They all started to yell and shout over me."
http://joshblackman.com/blog/2018/04/12/students-at-cuny-law-protested-and-heckled-my-lecture-about-free-speech-on-campus/
Snoopy at April 12, 2018 9:51 AM
I guess it just hasn't dawned on them that they've volunteered to be punished for saying the wrong thing.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at April 12, 2018 10:03 AM
I guess it just hasn't dawned on them that they've volunteered to be punished for saying the wrong thing.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at April 12, 2018 10:03 AM
And it never well. The human psyche is masterful at shifting blame for bad outcomes, and unintended consequences.
Isab at April 12, 2018 10:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wCXr_6wgns
NicoleK at April 12, 2018 11:09 AM
Has a lot to do, I think, with the excesses of 'self-esteem building'...we have people whose self-esteem is so high that they can't bear any form of disagreement.
David Foster at April 12, 2018 3:11 PM
All that self esteem stuff broke things down into a bimodal system. Either you are the greatest, most wonderful, most spectacular thing that has ever existed or you are human garbage and should be killed. Those are your two options. Doing better than your parents, just scrapping by, and all the rest are no longer options. Everything or nothing are your only choices. So yeah, once people start disagreeing with you or critisizing you millennials get really nervous. You are clearly signaling a desire to kill them.
Here is one real life example of how it works. A guy I know would always tell his wife her cooking was the greatest thing ever. At first she was thrilled. Then confused since she knew sometimes things weren't that good. Then she got mad because obviously he was always lying to her. And then she moved on to acceptance. Then one day he started complaining about her cooking. Sure enough, a week later he was gone.
Everything or nothing, those are your only options.
Ben at April 12, 2018 4:00 PM
It isn't merely that censorship drives bad people underground. It is used to stop debate on all sorts of questions that are real and that need discussing. Oppose abortion? Hate speech. Does your religion frown on adultery or premarital sex? Hate speech. Want to talk about the fact that preferential admissions or welfare might actually be harming blacks? Hate speech. Want to have a discussion about how many immigrants we should allow? Hate speech. Object to trans persons in girls locker rooms in school? Hate speech. And note that in every case it is conservative views that are stifled.
cc at April 12, 2018 4:47 PM
> you are the greatest, most wonderful, most
> spectacular thing that has ever existed
Thanks Ben!
Snoopy at April 12, 2018 5:33 PM
"Don't you just love it when a self-styled journalist comes down against the First Amendment?"
A widespread conceit among mainstream-media types is that they assert that the First Amendment grants them special privileges. They assume that censorship laws won't apply to them.
Cousin Dave at April 12, 2018 5:34 PM
All revolutionaries assume they have an outsized value to the revolution, right up until the guillotine falls on their own neck or their boss abandons them to the CIA in Bolivia.
Conan the Grammarian at April 12, 2018 5:47 PM
Most kids these days had/have overly protective parents who view their kids as doing no wrong...maybe not that extreme. The kids assume that the government will be like their parents.
The Former Banker at April 13, 2018 11:28 PM
Conan: Because when you're looking for historic models of tolerance and freedom, Germany is top of mind.
From the piece Why you see swastikas in America but not Germany at Vox:
JD at April 14, 2018 11:39 AM
I’m well aware of Germany’s attempts to come to terms with its Nazi past, JD. But Germany has a long history of authoritarian government and culture, from Bismarck to Brandt to Honecker. Nazis aren’t the only skeletons in that closet.
And banning only Nazi symbols leaves all the rest of that past under wraps.
Conan the Grammarian at April 14, 2018 8:06 PM
Merkel's comment about “far right” violence in the US ignotres far left oppression in East Germany, and her own connection to it.
Conan the Grammarian at April 14, 2018 8:09 PM
Because kids today are not taught anything about The Constitution other than it was written by a bunch of white supremists.
Doug Purdie at April 23, 2018 1:46 PM
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