Watch this before it gets deleted:

https://twitter.com/BurgerKingUK/status/1368849338596745223

You also want an accountant and a banker to pay for that staff.

Sardonic stocking stuffer.

This here is percussive Twitter sarcasm at its very best. (Royals)

The gravy train is no more

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1368955343347216386

Gay or just Italian?

https://twitter.com/jeremythunder/status/1368361445965127689

It's easy to understand how, in the millennia before literacy, the scientific method, and a thoroughgoing investigation of the natural world as regards the motivations and incentives for beasts, this would have been regarded as a communication from the spirit world.

But of course, with our modern understanding, we look a phenomenon like this and think OMFG will you look at that!!!

Is this sealioning or mental retardation?

https://twitter.com/micah_skariah/status/1368835376861822976

Doctor refuses to perform vasectomy...and the patient isn't even married! (This is recent, so there aren't many comments yet.)

https://old.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/m0n7nb/well_it_happened_i_had_a_vasectomy_consultation/

"I'm 29M turning 30 later this year. First and foremost, I live in the deep south. Dating as a CF person here is quite difficult. I've been on dates with women who say things like, "You're not really serious about the CF thing, right? You'll change your mind someday." All that stuff. I want a vasectomy because I just don't want to end up in a position where I have an accidental pregnancy because I don't believe it's the man's place to tell a woman what to do with her body.
I went to go see a doctor for a consultation and as soon as I told him my age and that I was single with no children, he told me he wouldn't do it. He said he didn't feel comfortable sterilizing someone in their 20's with no kids because "I could regret it and change my mind when I meet the right woman and settle down." ---- That. I was angry. I responded by saying that the "right woman" for me is a woman who doesn't want kids. He still wouldn't do it. He even dropped a comment in there about God's will and he only does vasectomies for men with existing families or men that have a hereditary illness. I'm a recovering addict and I mentioned that as well. Doesn't matter. He wouldn't do it. So now I'm looking for another Urologist in the area that's willing to do it. I just can't stand this. Why is it anyone's business but my own whether or not I want to have children?! Women have to put up with this shit all the time and it's absolutely ------- awful. Just wanted to rant."

And:

[–]fluffywacko
"Try going to your nearest planned parenthood. We live in SC and the Columbia PP did my husband’s vasectomy—for free—at 19. They’re lifesavers."

[–]l3g3ndairy[S]
"Unfortunately for me, the nearest Planned Parenthood is in Atlanta. It's a good 2 hour drive from me. Tennessee is such an awful state when it comes to stuff like this."

That one I'd say sealioning, Six. And a twofer with that first reply of 'Well, if it didn't offend you then it must not be offensive!' Umm, yes, if people aren't offended then the thing is not offensive. Kinda definitional there. And as I'm sure you've pointed out look at who is offended by a depiction of an asian man eating with chopsticks? Usually white women.

I didn't get a V until I was 30, and the urologist spent three or five minutes in awkward consultation peering into my soul to make sure I meant it... This was in Santa Freaking Monica in 1991. But-

Thing is, these people can be sued.

In Twitter, followers of Shrier are seeing this with post-procedure trans people, too... Mumblings about legal action against the surgeons and medicos of whom — just a few years earlier — they'd so desperately, tearfully demanded orchidectomies and mastectomies.

I was for real, and will always regret not having the procedure done on my fifteenth birthday…

…But I sympathized with the doc.

Thanks, Ben.

This is these days I go the Niccolo Machiavelli route and assume malice unless proven otherwise.

If anyone can type two and only two sentences describing "Wandavision" and whether a person should care, type them here:

(1) _____________________________
________________________________
________________________________.

(2) _____________________________
________________________________
________________________________.

Perfect... Thanks!

I can understand Six. The thing is my calling that other guy trained to be retarded isn't better than malice. I wasn't going soft on him. With malicious people sometimes you can find common ground. It maybe a marriage of convenience that doesn't last but at least you can get something done. With people like Stanton you can't do that. As you saw you can't even have an intelligible honest conversation with them. Stanton can't comprehend that those he considers opponents have human rights. He can't even comprehend leaving you alone. He can't comprehend anything other than conquest. Stanton wasn't trying to deceive. That is really how limited and pathetic his ability to see the world is.

Such people are far more dangerous than those who are motivated by greed or malice.

Mark Twain's quote comes to mind:

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Thinking more on this I really am not expressing myself well. Stanton is malicious. He wrote his malice quite clearly. My only contention is he wasn't dishonest. I wasn't saying 'It's OK. He is a true believer.' Instead I was trying to say 'Oh God! He really believes that. He really is that evil.'

Crid, maybe, but the patient IS almost 30, in the case I mentioned. Also, it's not as though we're talking about a married man who wants it done without his wife knowing. That is, SHE might sue.

As I've mentioned before, even an MRA like Warren Farrell didn't claim that a married woman has it any easier when SHE wants to get sterilized in secret.

So, while I would have sympathy for doctors who refuse patients like that, it's getting to be tiresome when I hear cases of unmarried patients being refused when they're almost old enough to run for president. Not to mention occasionally hearing of childfree male patients being ACCEPTED when they're barely past their teen years, while childfree women under 30 are typically refused.

(The old rule among doctors used to be that a woman who WANTED the operation could not be sterilized unless the following formula could be applied: "age times # of children must = 120.")

And here's a list of CF-sympathetic doctors in the US:

https://old.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors

Mistake - the list is global!

“So, while I would have sympathy for doctors who refuse patients like that, it's getting to be tiresome when I hear cases of unmarried patients being refused when they're almost old enough to run for president. Not to mention occasionally hearing of childfree male patients being ACCEPTED when they're barely past their teen years, while childfree women under 30 are typically refused.”

Like hate crime accusations, those with an axe to grind often beat these dead horses. If you want to know if a doctor is willing to do permanent birth control, call ahead, and ask.

Don’t whine about it on the internet.

Just to give you some context, Lenona, the CDC over the last year has driven almost 75% of vasectomy providers out of business. So yes it is much harder for men to get sterilized today than it was five years ago.

Seems to me that thread turned out to be very useful, and not just for the OP. That is, someone posted that list of doctors I linked to, and thus helped many readers save time in more or less the way you suggested. Especially when one knows that the "right" doctors are a rare species in that state; one shouldn't have to call twenty doctors before finding the right one.

(Naturally, many people would never think to search in Reddit for any valid medical information, and even if it is perfectly valid, doctors change addresses all the time. But...it may still give CF readers ideas as to how to search outside of Reddit.)

Other people's clumsy efforts - like the OP's - are often godsends for the people who are too embarrassed or introverted to "whine" - or to ask basic questions. It reminds me of the stories of victims of scam artists that show up in the news or advice columns. That is, scam artists are often very polite and smooth, so one often doesn't know how defend oneself without coming off as rude. Unless one reads about such cases in advance.

Ben, why is that, exactly? That's the first time I've heard that.

Besides, Isab, if people don't complain openly about sexist double standards, how are people ever going to arrive at a civilized consensus? (If married women DID have an easy time getting secret operations, I certainly wouldn't blame MRAs for complaining about that.)

That is, either doctors will have to announce that NO one under 30 will get the operation except under incredible medical circumstances, or maybe they can demand that patients forfeit their right to sue once they are legally independent adults. Something like that.

Besides, Isab, if people don't complain openly about sexist double standards, how are people ever going to arrive at a civilized consensus? (If married women DID have an easy time getting secret operations, I certainly wouldn't blame MRAs for complaining about that.)”

What is the point of your civilized consensus? To force doctors to perform procedures they don’t feel comfortable with?

There is nothing in the constitution that entitles you to a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, or an abortion. The constitution just gives you the right to seek out such care without criminal penalties for doing so.

Get on the freaking phone. The doctor is a businessman providing a service. This isn’t life and death emergency care. Stop labeling something sexist just because you don’t understand the perverse incentives driving legal liabilities, and malpractice insurance.

You will (in recent times) be asked up front what your consultation with the doctor is for. If it is something for whatever reason he or she doesn’t do, he is obligated only to refer you to someone else, if he can, and not charge you or your insurance for telling you no, in person or on the phone.

Reddit is a cesspool of crackpot information, poorly informed opinions and personality disorders. Trusting anything on it is for fools.

> perverse incentives driving
> legal liabilities, and
> malpractice insurance.

✔

Covid Lenona. Covid.

Vasectomy is a non-essential surgical procedure. Those were illegal for roughly 6 months last year as 'all are needed' for all those covid patients that never happened. Now, just what a urologist was going to do to treat an upper respiratory disease damned if I know. Especially one specialized in fertility. Well, most businesses aren't much different than most people. They have enough resources to survive around three months without steady work. So just about all vasectomy specialized practices in the US went out of business. The urologists still available today are oncological urologists. Cancer treatment was classified as essential and hence they didn't go out of business.

Today there is a massive shortage of urologists in general. You reading about it being more difficult to get a vasectomy isn't surprising. The current docs want to do cancer. They are specialized for cancer. Sterilizations are only a side business to fill the spare time slots. Anyone who looks slightly riskier isn't going to get one of those time slots.

There isn't any shadowy cabal trying to deny men sterilization. There was disastrously incompetent policy out of the CDC. Not exactly a rare issue for a government group.

Isab...wrong conclusions. Again.

I would NEVER suggest that any doctors be forced to do operations they aren't comfortable with. But at the very least, they could be more discreet about their reasons - and not mention God, for one. Plus, if they're not going to sterilize childfree women, they should refuse to sterilize ANY childfree men, young or old.

I was hearing about unmarried men getting far more respectful treatment, re sterilization, long before I heard of Reddit. E.g., there was never an algorithm for men that doctors were expected to use. (The one for women clearly did not respect the right of ANY childfree woman to get the operation, since even a 59-year-old woman with two children could not get one, as a rule, before the 1970s.)

My point, of course, was that since married men can't get sterilized in secret, it would be unfair for married women to be able to do that. But, as I said, that type of discrimination doesn't seem to exist anyway, where doctors are concerned.

And since we're all sick of trigger-happy Americans who love to sue, I don't see why some movement couldn't be started. The message could be "yes, you, as a 25-year-old, whether you're male or female, should have the right to get ACCESS to a doctor who's already willing to accept patients like you, but you can't blame doctors for balking when so many patients sue, so you'll just have to grow up and forfeit your right to sue over this particular operation."

(I don't suppose there's any way to STOP doctors from discriminating in favor of male patients who are barely old enough to drink, but they'll certainly continue to get bad press.)

And Ben, it seems to me that, regarding a man who was already planning to get a vasectomy, getting one clearly IS essential, during an economic crisis. A year ago, the media were predicting a shortage in condoms and other contraceptives. So birth control in general sounds like a current potential money maker to me.

By the way, IIRC, the young man in question only tried to get the operation recently. Not when urologists had their hands tied.

At any rate, I DO think that any pharmacist who doesn't believe in giving women access to birth control pills should be in another line of work. Whether the pills are being sold in person or not. If enough customers threatened to boycott pharmacists like that, they just might think twice about obstructing their customers. Who's to say the same move wouldn't work if more men insisted that vasectomies are essential?

Historian Russell Shorto wrote a cover story for the New York Times Magazine in 2006 about the anti-contraception movement:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/magazine/07contraception.html

I emailed him a few years ago and he said he wasn't planning to do an update. But maybe someone else has - I hope.

"And Ben, it seems to me that, regarding a man who was already planning to get a vasectomy, getting one clearly IS essential, during an economic crisis." ~Lenona

The CDC disagreed with you. They were illegal. Along with many other not immediately life threatening procedures.