Stuck,

I applaud your good intentions in sticking it out for the childrens sakes, but perhaps you might take a step back and examine the same view, from a different angle.

Letting your child(ren) grow up in an enviroment where a select group is shown vicious favoritism is not healthy for any, whether they be on the benevolent, or sickeningly childish malevolent one.

(And thats not even going into the topic of future discussions... "Mommy, why does Grandma hate you?")

As far as the wet end (Sorry. I mean your boyfriend) goes, well, I come from a hardhearted sect (Not that you asked or anything) where cheating is a clearly defined, one strike and youre out, no holds barred thing. The fact that you stayed with him makes you a saint.

Saints survive for a while, but no one ever thinks theyre worth anything until someone finally topples them.

Boot the tool, and let your children grow up unspoiled by vindictive grandparents.

I'll agree with Chronotrigger that boyfriend needs to go. Although the letterwriter is a martyr, not a saint.

"Get back together with your boyfriend"? Amy, I usually agree with you, but this is appalling. Forgiveness for this kind of behavior is granting license to do it again. She gets back together with him, and he knows what he has to do the next time he cheats: let her sulk and pout for a month and then she'll come around.

She's already gotten herpes from the sonofabitch. Why should she stay with this disgusting prick? You think she should hold out for AIDS?

The guy is a scumbag and it's not hard to see where he got it from. Speaking of which, what about the obvious favoritism the grandbastards are displaying? You think the kid should grow up with the undoubted complex they're instilling in him?

Amy, I love you to death, but that last paragraph couldn't have been further off. She needs to get gone. Forgiveness is wonderful, but let it be from her new apartment on the other side of town, and her forgiveness relayed via her divorce lawyer.

"Act loving- kiss him- tell him he's a great dad, repeatedly" No way would I act loving to someone who infected me with an incurable disease! The LW never mentions whether or not he's a "great dad", only indicates that he certainly likes making babies. Kick this guy to the curb along with his nasty parents, PACK UP AND MOVE!

Quick comment to agree with both Patrick and Snoot. As I was reading your response, Amy, I found myself wondering whether someone else had written this column for you - although I know your feelings on single parenthood and guys being cut out of their children's lives, it seems you're sticking rather stubbornly to a principle rather than actually looking at the details of the case.

I couldn't put it much better than Patrick:

She's already gotten herpes from the sonofabitch. Why should she stay with this disgusting prick? You think she should hold out for AIDS?

This guy's a dirtbag. The relationship is a dead-ender if she takes him back. The child will be better off having mommy care for him while she's in a happy and emotionally healthy state - though single - than having mommy care for him while she's also wondering what her man's up to (or should that be 'who' her man's up to?), which STD she's going to get next and what kind of hell her vindictive in-laws are concocting next for her child.

LW, get rid. Sort yourself out - stop martyring yourself and understand that while life is no longer all about you, your child needs you to be in a good place in order to raise him properly.

Good luck.

Snoot writes:No way would I act loving to someone who infected me with an incurable disease!

I'm not saying she should nurse a grudge. You can hate someone for the rest of their life, and you know what that does to them? Nada. You could hate someone else for the rest of their life, and you know what it does to you? Lots. And none of it good.

The Goddess writes: I had to edit the letter down - the guy cheated once, and I don't feel that's justification for leaving a kid daddyless, with a broken home. He is a loving dad -- I just can't put everything in. Yeah, he gave her herpes -- one in five people reportedly have it. Why should that be the kid's problem?

Mistake number one was cheating. Mistake number two was in not using protection.

As I already suggested with my "AIDS" comment, that's a dangerous combination. I would like LW to have a two-parent home for her son, too. But I don't want her to die for it. Better no daddy than a daddy who's a cad. A stupid cad, at that.

Mistake number three is not seeing the danger to the child of his grandparents' unrepentant favoritism, and being too spineless to do something about it, for the sake of his kid.

But since he's such a "loving daddy," he won't mind paying the child support and alimony, which should be generous given his history.

He might be loving, but you can't cure his stupidity. It was not love, but stupidity that infected his wife (and himself) with an incurable disease and subjected his child to abusive grandparents. If only he were loving and had half a brain.

I definitely appreciate the information you shared about neuroplasticity and think it's useful, but it's definitely out of place here.

Amy, I'd like to remind you of a column you wrote not long ago, about a woman who drove her boyfriend off with a careless, vicious comment, "No wonder your wife left you and your daughters won't speak to you."

When you sided with the boyfriend, you were inundated with letters from folks protesting, "But she only did it once!"

I felt you were absolutely right then, and applauded you for sticking to your guns. But now, I'm seeing an apparent inconsistency. You're coming back with, "The guy cheated once."

So, why? Because there's a kid? All the more reason to vacate the premises. Good that he's a loving father. Then he'll pay the support and have liberal visitation. But he's already demonstrated that he's just too stupid to raise a kid.

I don't mean to make you feel bad, Amy. You're head and shoulders above all other advice columnists, but I cannot agree with this.

Free love isn't free. How many girls and young women get themselves in these troubled situations because feminism teaches them that they can go out and sleep with whomever they like, like a man and its empowering.

From the sounds of the letter writer it doesn't sound like she is very empowered at this point.

Why did your boyfriend cheat? Do you bombard him with complaints everyday when he gets home from work like in the letter. Or do you provide a warm, loving home environment that he actually wants to come home to?

I think some old fashioned advice that you didn't want to hear from your parents would have really paid off. Now it's to late to change but you can do things to improve your situation.

A good father wouldn't let his child be treated so badly by his grandparents. A good husband wouldn't let his wife be treated so badly, either.

Stay or don't stay. The LW can probably justify either choice. But damn, start insisting on some respect for yourself and your son.

David M. writes: Why did your boyfriend cheat? Do you bombard him with complaints everyday when he gets home from work like in the letter. Or do you provide a warm, loving home environment that he actually wants to come home to?

Why are you assuming that his cheating is the LW's fault? Even if she was the worst wife since Lucrezia Borgia, that doesn't justify cheating or infecting her with an STD.

I agree your BF is going to have to step up and man up and back you to make this situation ok, and it doesn't sound like he's going to. Yes, the kid is most important now, but sometimes-rarely but sometimes-not being with together parents is best. I agree you need a Uhaul, I just don't think his things need to be in it. See a lawyer for money, be very workable with the kid seeing dad, but do not be a doormat.

I think whether she leaves or stays because he strayed should be up to *them*, it's a very personal decision and could go either way. BUT if she can't get past the cheating and drop the grudge then there's not a lot of hope for a strong marriage.

And yes - she need to look for/act on solutions not just trot out reasons why it's a bad situation that can't change.

Actually, the herpes probably IS the baby's problem... if he infected her while she was pregnant...

This is why I remain a single parent. A mixed family situation is worse for the kids than single parenthood in cases like this.

The LW and her child are both step-children to her boyfriend's parents. Right or wrong, she can't change them. She should get out.

I'm all in agreement that once you are responsible for a child, you have to change your behavior to make life decisions that benefit yourself and your child. I do this everyday. Last spring I started seeing a gal that is close to my age, really hot and sweet gal, that has a 6 year old son (my son is 9). After several months, she would really like to move to my town, into my house, and make this a big happy family. But no, not going to happen. I don't want to mix a 'step son' into the current environment for my son. My parents, who are retired and child sit a lot for me would probably accept this, but it wouldn't be the same. Same for the part time nanny.
People tell me that I am being a jerk for not being more accepting of this gal and her child. Mostly liberal people, or people who don't have kids or mixed families. And if it is true that I am an ass, then so be it. If i want to do something incredibly stupid like get married again, or become a step dad, I can wait 9 years until my son is all growed up and in college somewhere.

I do agree with Amy's advice to this woman. The woman sounds like she's a little bitter beyond the cheating boyfriend and the STD. She sounds like having the kid, unplanned, should have given her the right to be loved and adored by her boyfriends parents, and that it also meant she would be entitled to free babysitting. And expensive gifts for her child. Well Ms Bitterness, we don't always get what we want, do we?
Do the Amy plan, try to work something out, but at the same time be prepared to get a Uhaul and an attorney. And on the trying to work things out part, try not to be too bitter. Because if you move across town, you really need to keep a friendly relationship with your ex and his parents. For the child's sake.

I'm the one who wrote this letter. A few things have happened since I wrote to Amy. First, I had a long talk with my SOs dad (while his mom was present), and told him everything I have been feeling. He "didn't realize" the things his wife had been doing, and apologized. I don't know if its mere lip service or not, but they have been much better to both me and my son. They actually put effort into his birthday (although she is still passive aggressive with her gifts), and things seem to be marginally better. My SO hasn't gone over there much lately, so they have stopped asking as much. They have agreed that they need to do what I ask if the baby is ever over there, but I have found a sitter for the kids so she doesn't have them as often. The older boys still go there after school when their mother has them, and that's all.

As far as my SO goes, things are better. It was a one time thing when he was out of town 2 years ago. He feels badly about it, I know this, and we are working past it. I have been looking for a better paying job, and as soon as we have the money, we are moving.

And to clear a few things up-

The baby has no worries about the herpes. My dr was informed of it, and steps were taken to ensure he did not contract the virus.

I never felt as though I was entitled to free babysitting. We have always paid her to watch all the kids, she just charges me a lot more for my son than she does for the other two. The only reason why I mentioned it to Amy was to show the huge disconnect between the treatment of him and his brothers. I never think its okay to treat siblings differently, and both my SO and I worry that this will be an issue as the boys get older and my son realizes what's going on.

Good job Amber. Watching the grandparents actions will tell you whether it was lipservice or not. From what you have written it sounds like it wasnt on the Gfathers part but it also sounds like you MiL is a toxic meatsack. This may be as good as it gets.

Good luck on forgiving. If you choose to you can, it will just take stamina and hard work. Moving sounds like the best option.

Nice to meet you, Amber. Glad things are going better for you. Sounds like the grandmonsters were hoping their son would get back together with his ex-wife, and seeing you and your child as a threat to their grand designs.

One of my letters appeared in Amy's column. Actually, three of them, technically. The latter two were a successful prank. (Shhh...I never told her.)

While I stand by what I said, I do hope things continue to improve. I'm a little suspicious of Grandpa's "ignorance" about how grossly unfair both he and his wife were being. How do not know that you're charging four times as much to babysit one grandchild vice the other two? How do you not know you're inviting two grandchildren and excluding the last one, along with his mother?

He may truly be sorry, but I do not buy this ignorant act for a second. He didn't know, or just didn't want to know? Sounds like Granddaddy's a little bit on the "whipped" side, and his wife is a mean-spirited domineering shrew.

I'm glad you have plans to move, at least. Do not let anyone dissuade you from this purpose. A lot can happen between now and the time you accumulate the necessary funds to move...don't change your mind.

Amber - as long as you and SO are on the same page, it's worth it to take Amys opinion and stick around. It looks like this is the case here too...SO should first and foremost be on your team.

If SO were not on your team and working with you for what is best for you and the kids I would agree with the first posters' opinions - ditch him.

It takes 2 to "make things work for the kids". If you don't have 2 then it's actually better for the kids to separate. I know - blasphemy...but it's true. Miserable, unloving, dysfunctional couples breed children who go out to find their very own miserable, unloving, dysfunctional relationship.

Life must be a real joy in their house. The only one who is "stuck" in this awful situation is their poor kid (who will probably spend his life hearing about the sacrifices his poor pitiful mother made in his behalf, and what a monster his grandma is.)

What a whiner.

I wish I knew more of the facts, so my sneering would be informed instead of just speculative, but I have to work with what I've got.

I'd like to know if she was the reason for that previous divorce his two sons are from.

Maybe from his mom's point of view she is the reason for his divorce, and now she's planted right next door, and gramma is expected to babysit for three kid's. She doesn't say the ages of the other two, or the age and health of the grandparents, but I don't have to be a mom to know a year-old baby is going to add just a tad more work.

Hell, to continue with my speculating, maybe the dollar-store outfits come from experience in knowing how long the clothes will last.

I'd like to know why he cheated. If he did cheat on his wife with LW, then it's a matter of "what goes around, comes around".

Or...(insert violin music) she is the innocent victim of a cheating, lecherous cad who forced his attentions on her and made her pregnant, then turned to another woman and subsequently left LW with an STD. But she will stay with him, out of wedlock, for the sake of their young son.

She doesn't even bother to say she loves him, just that she can't forgive him.

I feel pity for the poor, possibly already-fucked-up little boy, but not for his mother.

What's the MIL's problem with you and your child? - i.e. her grandchild

Did you break-up his relationship w/ the other childrens' mother?

It's admirable that you're trying to keep things together for your child, but it seems like you're dealing with a bunch of white trash.

I was actually discussing this situation with my own SO whilst taking our adorable (but still regrettably jobless) dog out for her evening walk. The SO in question brought up the point that perhaps the father need not suffer for his grandparents' foolishness. (A point well reinforced in the various posts)

Amber, its good to see that you have an open mind about your woes, and that you took the steps neccesary to correct them. The train has left the station, now you need to be vigilant about watching the tracks: don't allow the players onstage to forget their parts!

Stick to yer guns.

Woah. They were divorced for a year before I even met my SO. I had nothing to do with the dissolution of his marriage. The best I can figure, his mother dislikes me because I "rocked the boat" when I came into the picture. My SO and his two sons, ages 11 and 7, were over there often when he was single. She never had to deal with an empty nest, and then once his kids came along, she got to "raise" more children without having any of the dirty work to deal with. When I first met his mother (who is only 52, btw), she told me her job was "raising [SOs] kids," instead of telling me she babysat for him. She has always charged the same flat rate for the two older boys, even when they were babies, and she charges me more. So now that I'm here, she has to deal with the fact that her son is grown and she is getting older.

Also, the ex wife and I get along quite well. She has had the same problems with the grandmother over stepping her bounds that I do.

Oh yeah. I could understand the comment about the dollar store clothes if she bought clothes that actually fit. For example, at christmas, he was in 3-6 month clothes, I told her this before she went shopping. She purchased newborn and 0-3 month onesies. For his birthday, we told her he was in 12-18 month clothes, and she purchased 9-12 month sizes and insisted they would fit. They didn't, and I can't exchange them. She's just very passive aggressive.

Amy says:

Act loving -- hug him, kiss him, tell him he's a great dad...repeatedly -- and it's likely you'll start to feel loving.

My experience is that this is absolutely correct. And it has the near-certain added benefit of inspiring similar feelings in the beneficiary of your loving acts.

Is there a conversion chart I'm not aware of?

Does being a good father entitle a man to go off and fuck around without a condom? What if he was only a so-so father? Just a blow job? If he saves his son from a burning building, does he get to have a threeway with his girlfriend's sister and that hot chick from the office? If the letter writer is a good mother, does that mean she gets to accept the UPS man's OTHER package?

Sitting on your ass while your parents treat the mother of your child AND your child shabbily is not a hallmark of awesome parenting.

Also, I'm curious about this:
"It was a one time thing when he was out of town 2 years ago."
Do you two have an arrangement? Does your expectation of fidelity decrease as his proximity does?

Its not that we have an arrangement, and I'm not saying what he did was ok because it wasn't, but I guess if I had to choose between a drunken one night stand 100 miles from home, and a long lasting affair with someone who was in close proximity...you know?

Amber -- brave of you to show up on the comments -- thank you as its nice to hear how Amy's advice is working, get more details and follow up. Don't mind the commenters who are bound to find some fault in how you're handling things. Some people choose to forgive a single infidelity, some choose to forgive/ignore multiple and some choose to never forgive. As someone said above, its very personal. Good on you for looking for help to make things work and turn yours into one of those "stable families" that I think we all want.

I think its easier to say snarky things to someone you will never meet, its not like most people actually stop and think that this is someone's life they're commenting on, you know? With one exception, I think everyone has been pretty respectful. Its also refreshing to hear perspectives from an unbiased source.

It would only be fair if you had a nice one night stand too, just to make it fair. But you can be the more responsible one, by using a condom.

Chrissy, "fair " isn't always "right". :-)
it sounds like Ms Amber has a level head on her shoulders, and that's a great gift to have. Good luck!

Resentment isn't a nice thing to have, and the only way to get past it would be to do exactly what I've suggested. Why would it be wrong? It doesn't sound like she's in love with him anyway, and if she's only with him for the kids, it's an arrangement, not a relationship.

The good thing will be that she will be able to move past her anger and start trying to not hate him. She could even try to fake it till she makes it with the emotions, as Amy suggested.

Honestly, it's just sex, and this moralizing just means that she wants to hold his infidelity over his head to make him feel guilty. If she's done the same, she won't be able to anymore, and they will be equals.

Is it possible to live together and provide a home for the child as friends rather than as romantic partners?

Free love isn't free. How many girls and young women get themselves in these troubled situations because feminism teaches them that they can go out and sleep with whomever they like, like a man and its empowering.

Oh, please. I slept with whomever I liked and found it quite enjoyable.
Posted by: Amy Alkon at October 28, 2009 6:49 AM
-------------------------------------------
Sorry if you don't want to connect the dots regarding feminism.
Maybe you did sleep with whomever you like and were fortunate not to have consequences. This girl was not so lucky.
I work in an STD clinic and we see a lot of young women that have "unplanned" STD's, "unplanned" pregnancies, an "unplanned" emotional turmoil in their lives while they thought they were being grown up and empowered with their free love.
Who promotes them going out and getting theirs? The feminist liberal attitudes.

Amber, you're right about it being easier to say snarky things to people you'll never meet. Particularly when what I really felt was angry. Yes, at someone I'll never meet.

I was angry because the letter I read was not written by someone who deserved respect, but by someone who felt both noble and bitter about her lot in life, and wanted the world to know it.

People create their situations by their own actions, so talking about being stuck and helpless pushes my bitch button. It's practically stuck in the ON position these days.

I regret only that I did "stop and think", because if I'd gone with my first knee-jerk reaction (which was a lot snarkier) it would have made it in before your "never mind, it's all handled" message.

Good to see you've realized that moving is an option after all.

While it is true that I initially stayed with my SO because I was pregnant (I was 8 months preggo when I found out he cheated on me and gave me an STD), that is not the main reason why we are together now. I do love him, and because of the child we share, I do believe the problems we (I) have are problems that can be resolved. I think it is very important to stay with someone once there is a child involved, unless your partner has committed heinous crimes. He has done nothing of the sort. He screwed up, lots of people do. If it was just cheating, or just an STD, or just his parents, I think it would be easier to take. But all three at once is just a lot for me to deal with, which is why I contacted Amy initially. I chose Amy because I know she shares similar values when it comes to child-rearing, with the exception that she believes I should have given my son up for adoption.

pricklypear-the letter that Amy posted is not the one I sent to her. She took all of our communications and parsed them into a "dear abby" format that was short enough for her column, in words she chose to convey what I said in a cliff notes style. If you want to believe that I am a whiney brat because of what you read, that is your choice. But her words were not mine.

Also, the reason why I wrote in for advice was to figure out a way to deal with my issues in a way that would ensure my child would remain in a loving, stable, 2 parent home. if you want to call me noble for that, whatever. I have to deal with insufferable in-laws on the daily, like many people. If you want to call me bitter for trying to figure out a way to deal with them, okie doke. We all have our issues, and I was trying to gain insight from a non biased third party who shares similar views as mine. My friends and family all believe that it's okay to leave at the drop of a hat, and I'm not okay with that at all.

Amber writes: if you want to call me noble for that, whatever.

This is first time I've heard of "noble" as a bad thing to be.

And Amber, I agree that it's very brave of you to jump into this discussion. Please ignore Chrissy's advice, by the way. Cheating on him as a way to get even will undo whatever progress you've made and subject the children to unnecessary fallout. The saying about two wrongs applies here.

Pricklypear, how about you just go with what you have instead of assuming the worst? Your posts sound like David M.'s, who assumed that her husband was cheating because she wasn't making a warm, loving home, and was subjecting him to a fusillade of complaints the second he walked in the door.

And you assume that she's the biggest homewrecker since Anne Boleyn.

Prickly, you'd make a terrible advice columnist. That's all I can say.

If a woman wrote to you saying she was raped at knifepoint and needed help to get past the experience, you'd come back with, "So, why were you wearing a tight sweater, you dirty fucking SLUT!"

You know what? Even if she was the reason they broke up, which she was not, that does not justify cheating unprotected and infecting your pregnant SO with a incurable disease. Get it through your head, guys. If he's got a problem, he should either face it, resolve it, or get past, or else move on. Cheating has no defense. No justification. No rationale. No excuse. None.

Good grief! Take a chill-pill, Prickly. Take several, in fact. They're small.

Patrik, Prickly, Chrissy, calm down! Relax! Eaaaasy. Remember who is really at fault here!

George Bush.

you know what bothers me the most about all this? the fact that there's an ad for question 1 in maine on here. i can't escape them!

Dear Amber,

You are a brave lady with a good head on your shoulders and anyone would be lucky to have that in a partner.

I have seen your mother-in-laws behavior before. At that time the mother viewed all women that "her little soldier" had an adult relationship with as a threat to her relationship with her son.

It can happen when a woman over emphasises the relationship with her son to compensate for a poor relationship with her husband.

The difference between the way she treats your son and your husbands other children could stem from that. Maybe she thought she had him back when the first marriage failed, then in her eyes you came along to spoil it.

If this is the case in your situation it is a fight that your husband will need to win.

Your husband could try the "you have three grandchildren or none" line and be prepared for the sparks to fly. Then again you may have to put up with three people in the relationship.

The best advice I could give you is not to do anything that your conscience will punish you later for. Well alls said and done you can run from anything but your own conscience.

Only you know the truth of the situation, and you may have to look very hard to find it.

All the best for your road ahead.

OK, now amber for president.

We love to snark and pretend to be advice columnists. Also, since Amy gives good AND funny advice, we all take a shot now and again.

And we are glad (I have a tapeworm in my stomach, or a mouse in my pocket when I say 'we') that you came to the discussion.

Also happy that you seem to have worked it out. To me it's always been the little stuff, all combined, that make me reach out to folks for help/advice. FYI, just my opinion, your MIL is a beeeach. But don't say that.

And also while jumping on your bandwagon, it takes real cajones to pursue your relationship and course of action. Obviously you are not a quitter at important matters even when they are close to your heart.

Best of luck.

I have to disagree with the crowd here, and agree with amy.

Except for knowing that he cheated (once) we know next to nothing of this man. Is he a good father, does he provide for his children, spend time with them, teach them, make sure the lights are kept on so they can read and be read to.

In short, IS HE A FATHER?

If he's a deadbeat, yes, I can see kicking him to the curb and the stepping out just being the straw that broke the camel's back.

BUT...lets say he is a father, a good father, lets take a look at what her going results in:

SHe has to step out and get work, not just the part time stuff, I mean she has to spend a huge amount of time away from their son, just when she's cutting their consistent father out of his life, and entrust him to strangers who charge her an arm & a leg for day care.

He's basically cut out unless their parting is VERY amicable, he'll be lucky to establish any visitation, because in many locations an unmarried father has very few rights, though very many financial obligations. Sooo he's basically lost contact with his son by her. Arguably just as bad, the children he already had, which probably came to consider her to be their mother...well they lose HER, unless they're very amicable, AND they lose a daily life with their baby brother. To top it off, if all that weren't enough, their lifestyle is similarly damaged because suddenly their dad is obligated to pay child support, as well as having to pay for another place, additional child care costs in the form of day care, good by quality of life for:

His girlfriend.
The son they share.
The two he already has.
& himself.

Ok...he cheated, is that a good thing to do? NO. Reasonable to say he didn't go out one day and decide he wanted to infect his girlfriend with an STD. Its NOT reasonable to assume he got it from a prostitute...what, "regular girls" don't get STDs or slut it up? C'mon.

Assuming the guy cheated because there was a kid is rather presumptuous. He might've had a few to many at an office party, his girlfriend might have been "holding out" for weeks and he got sick of celibacy (I don't get that feeling from her, its just possible) we don't know the circumstances of what happened, maybe he really did just get bored with a long term relationship, or maybe it was a "sleep with me or your fired" situation, we don't know.

Whatever the case may be, how is depriving two children of their baby brother, one chlid of his father, two children of their mother (I don't know about y'all, but I get the feeling their original mother isn't in the picture at all, its unlikely he'd have won custody otherwise, paternal custody is very uncommon), and both adults and all three children of a higher standard of living & increased security...to be considered in any way to be the appropriate, measured response to the situation.

What disturbs me most about the comments I've read here is how much focuses on the boyfriend & his one time stray who knows how much before under unknown cicumstances. Y'all really should dial back the kneejerk response a bit.

Who really needs to be kicked to the curb here?

I'll tell you.

THOSE SADISTIC FUCKS PASSING THEMSELVES OFF AS GRANDPARENTS.

Neither my parents or grandparents have EVER treated my stepson any differently than my daughter. Never even once. Well, except as differently as girls are than boys & 6 year olds compared to 9 year olds.

The boyfriend's parents are sadists. It might not hurt their grandson yet, he's still to young, but when he's older, 5, 6, 7, and on, when he understands that his grandma & grandpa hate him and hate their mother, I can only imagine the harm worked on his self image, and on the relationship between he & his half siblings. What will they say to those two when watching them, about their baby brother? How will that impact their relationship with him?

Its easy to castigate the boyfriend over not "standing up to them" but I think it likely that he's just blind to it. To close to the problem as it were, in denial some of you might say. If anything must be tended here...it is how the girlfriend settles THAT problem, she's GOT to make him see that what they're doing isn't just destructive, its evil & abusive in ways that only what should be a loved one, is capable of being.

Move across town, move across the country, never let them see the other two, or they'll do whatever they can to poison their elder two grandchildren against their stepmother cum mother, and their baby brother, and to do any emotional harm they can to the youngest grandchild.

Whatever their reasons, there is no excuse, I say this about very few...but they are as vile as people come, without going to jail.

Misread some of the letter regarding it being only "weekends". OOPS. Well, leaving out my mistaken portion, I stand by the rest.

http://www.herpes.com/hsv1-2.html

A lot of people on this board need to chill out about herpes. Many of you are probably infected and don't even know it. If you have ever had chicken pox or a cold sore you have a form of herpes and yes, you have it for life. Herpes infections of the lips and mouth can be transmitted to the genitals during oral sex and you can infect others even when they you don't have an active lesion. Chicken Pox (herpes zoster) re appears in older people as a panful disease called shingles. Once you have chiken pox the virus is always in your system hiding and may reappear as shingles expecially when you are very old and have a less robust immune system. Contrary to the hysterical ranting on this board, it is not equivelent to aids and is most often passed unknowingly. One in 5 at least have genital herpes and about 60 percent of the rest of the population has type 1, an almost identical virus. Some people seem to be immune which is the only reason that 100 percent of us don't have one form or the other. Isabel

I wasn't going to go into it, but since it has been brought up a few times...

He is an amazing father, and I'm not just saying that because I'm biased. He's a firm believer in 50/50 parenting, and is as involved as I am when it comes to the children. He does the majority of things on the weekends, so I get a bit of a break (so far as to get up early with the kids every sunday and make a big breakfast so I get some sleep), as well as taking care of our child while I work nights as a waitress. I cannot think of one negative thing when it comes to my SO and parenting. My friends who have children are jealous, probably because most of them are single mothers and cannot rely on another to help them out during a rough patch. Part of why I am so adamantly against single parenting comes from watching them struggle. He takes time off work to come to dr appts, he took paternity leave when I had my son via c-section last year. I have only seen two other guys in our group who are the same way, and they've been friends with my SO since kindergarten. Of all the things I can say negatively about his actions, I cannot say he is a bad father, or even a mediocre one.

Amber... you rock! I love it when LWs show up to give us updates in the comments, but never moreso than now, because you're actually doing productive things for your child and for your relationship. It was especially great to hear that you tackled the thing with the greatest potential to damage your kid in this situation-- the relationship with the grandparents.

It certainly does sound like the MIL has a tremendous amount of anxiety at the idea of being an empty-nester, hence the commensurately huge amount of passive-agressive acting out. I believe you did the right thing in alerting the FIL to the behaviors, which might just have been too much the background radiation of his life with her for him to notice! Is your husband an only child, I wonder? Sounds like his mom would benefit from some of that cognitive behavior therapy, herself.

The big thing I disagree with here is the implication that the responsible thing for LW to do would have been to put her son up for adoption. If you're 16 years old and the dad isn't in the picture, then yes adoption is probably the best decision-certainly more responsible than becoming a single mother on welfare. But if you're an adult with a stable job who is capable of being a good parent, in a relationship with someone who also is capable of being a good parent, then you suck it up and raise your kid. (ESPECIALLY if you already have children-imagine how this kid would feel 10 or 15 years down the road if he found out that Mommy and Daddy kept his brothers but not him). Saying that LW "probably wanted a baby no matter what," isn't fair either when this was an UNPLANNED pregnancy. Are you saying she should have aborted? IMO Amber definitely did the most responsible thing here and shouldn't be castigated for it.

Also- David M: You're blaming feminism because this woman had sex with her boyfriend? Are you saying that women shouldn't have sex in committed relationships? Because I have a feeling that a lot of men are going to disagree with you.

He is the only child between his parents. He has an older sister that was raised to believe they had the same father (found out when she was 18 his dad isn't hers), and his father has 2 daughters who live in the southern part of the state, who are significantly older (12 and 9 yrs) than my SO.

So we live on one side of the in-laws (on their property), and his sis lives on the other side. Well, until the beginning of this month, when she up and moved out of state. They have made it very clear that we are expected to stay. Before I met my SO, his parents cleared the lot and put significant money into putting our house here. That's another huge part of the problem. They aren't rich by any means, but they have quite a bit of money and helped my SO out a lot before I met him. So now he thinks that he (and I, by proxy) just has to deal with their crap or be seen as ungreatful. Its such a ridiculous dynamic I could never even cover it all here.

By the way, regarding herpes, the one-in-five argument is disingenuous. I don't care if 99% of the world has herpes. In no way would that mitigate infecting the remaining 1%.

Why cite one-in-five? Herpes can be serious, even life-threatening, and it's incurable. Suggesting the statistic of one-in-five somehow makes it less of a big deal is bullshit.

He did a terrible thing and subjected an innocent party and could have infected his unborn child with it. And the fact that one-in-five people have this condition doesn't make it any less terrible. And that's a fact that he has to live with.

Kudos to you, Amber. You are handling the situation as best you can under the circumstances, and that says a lot. One thing you need to remember, though, is just to stand firm when it comes to dealing with your MIL. Don't let her call all the shots, or even a few of them. Keep your cool, and don't let her rattle you (I know, easier said than done!), or at the least, don't let her see she's rattled you. I wish you the best of luck! You'll all be fine.

o.O

"By the way, regarding herpes, the one-in-five argument is disingenuous. I don't care if 99% of the world has herpes. In no way would that mitigate infecting the remaining 1%"

That is fine if you apply this same moral standard to any other disease that is passed from person to person. Colds and the flu come immediately to mind. Flu has a higher death rate than herpes by a factor of thousands (probably millions). Under your standards we shouldn't even be kissing anyone we are not in a long term monogamous relationship with; Perhaps not even holding their hand. Since you can pass on herpes without showing any symptoms or even being aware you are infected you think that humanity should become hermits? I have a friend who caught herpes from a chalice at mass.

"Why cite one-in-five? Herpes can be serious, even life-threatening, and it's incurable. Suggesting the statistic of one-in-five somehow makes it less of a big deal is bullshit."

It does make it less of a big deal especially since it is so benign. Did you even bother to read the link that I posted?

It may be incurable but your immune system suppresses it most of the time and as I said before, so is chicken pox (a much more serious disease). You are never going to eliminate all risk in life. Something is going to kill you and it is highly unlikely to be Herpes Simplex Type 2. Recent studies seem to indicate that it many respects it is much less serious than Type 1 and may provide some protection against other more serious viruses. Further more in the absence of an active outbreak YOU CANNOT EVEN TEST FOR IT. No medical test will determine if you are a herpes carrier unless you have an active lesion.

"He did a terrible thing and subjected an innocent party and could have infected his unborn child with it. And the fact that one-in-five people have this condition doesn't make it any less terrible."

Yes it does because herpes is decidedly less fatal than that cold you picked up from the door knob when your co- worker didn’t wash his hands when he left the bathroom.

"And that's a fact that he has to live with."

Of course but most people don't know who they got herpes from or when they acquired it. A baby is highly unlikely to be affected by a herpes infection but they do try and avoid a vaginal delivery during an active case with open lesions. It is a precaution, like about a hundred other things they do a precautionary C section for. It is to avoid tort liability. Isabel

You know where the herpes hysteria came from? It came from the early 1980's when Phyllis Schlafly and the “Moral Majority were trying to terrorize everyone into absolute chastity. It reminds me of the 1950's campaign against marihuana.

Isabel, that is the lamest, most deplorable justification I've seen on this blog, and that's saying something.

Colds and flu are spread by casual contact, often accidentally, even through the air without contact, while genital herpes is spread by deliberate sexual contact. To make a comparison between an accidental, incidental and airborne virus to a virus that is spread by sexual contact is just more disingenuousness. Moreover, colds and flu can be spread by a person who just happens to have the virus on his person but has not been infected with it, and probably doesn't even know he's got the virus on his person.

And because of these factors, colds and flu are very difficult to avoid, if not outright impossible under some circumstances. Herpes, by contrast, is simple to avoid.

How to minimize your chances of an STD, in one easy lesson. You wrap your dick up, or make sure his dick is wrapped, depending on whether you're giving or receiving.

Apply the same standards to a virus that can be spread through the air vice an STD?

Ridiculous. Too stupid for words. I'm disgusted at the magnitude of stupidity and lame-ass reasoning you just displayed. You should be truly ashamed of yourself.

And don't bother trying to fall back on "chicken pox can be spread through the air." He didn't infect her with chicken pox.

Patrick - there's growing evidence that Herpes is spread from oral/genital contact so if I understand what you're saying correctly - what you suggest does not minimize your chance of getting an STI. To minimize you need to abstain from oral sex altogether. This is also true for other STIs.

'And because of these factors, colds and flu are very difficult to avoid, if not outright impossible under some circumstances. Herpes, by contrast, is simple to avoid."

Patrick you want to THINK it is simple to avoid because it makes you feel safer or more virtuous? It is not. You haven't read the link yet or anything else that is not from some hysterical right wing anti sex site, and apparently not even my previous posts. Isabel

"This is also true for other STIs." Should read "This is also true for some other STIs." I don't want people to think I meant all STIs can be transmitted orally.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050106111129.htm

From the article linked abovewhich found a 98% infection rate of healty people with no symptoms of herpes.

"The fact that HSV-1 DNA was discovered in such a high percentage of healthy people in the general population tells us that the virus is everywhere and it's unavoidable," said Dr. Kaufman, who developed the first effective antiviral drug for herpes infections of the eye."

Yes, she got herpes from him because he sneezed on her.

It is only passed by skin contact or tranferred like a cold virus by touching the virus and then touching some other part of the body. Most colds, contrary to folk belief, are not transferred by people sneezing on other people. They are tranferred when someone blows their nose and then does not wash their hands, then touches something that you touch and then you touch your eyes or your nose. However it is quite possible to catch herpes through just skin to skin contact. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_gladiatorum

So yea, you can get it pretty much any way. You can even transfer it from one part of your body to another all by yourself. The fact that it was transferred sexually in this case makes it unfortunate but not necessarily avoidable since as you so elequently put it "wrapping up your dong" does not necessarily protect you since it is only one subset of all the ways that herpes is transferred. Isabel

Even BOTU hopes for the best for this poor woman. I have been in cruddy situations like this too. Sometimes you just have to find some small part of everyday--reading a book, conversation with a true friend, walking with your son in the park, a hobby--that you can draw pleasure from. Your son is your son, so you have that. Good luck.

Amber, tell that guy of yours that you need to move. If he wants to stay and deal with mommy dearest so be it, but this would be the line I draw. He's got some choosin' to do. If he lets his mother ABUSE you and your child he's no man and no father. I apologize for saying that because I can hear you defending him for that he IS a caring and loving dad.
There are a lot of dynamics here we cannot see, and finding it in your heart to forgive him for passing the herpes on to you is something you definitely have to "grow" and "cultivate". It doesn't just happen that *tada* you wake up one day all bright and fresh and welling over with forgiveness. Keep telling yourself about the good things he brings to the table and it will eventually happen. It has little to do with the bigger picture if he is truly repentant and intending to make this relationship work.
The in-laws have made it clear they expect you to stay and be thankful they allow it. Bullshit. They would not suffer having empty houses on their property, they can rent them out if it's going to pinch their budget. If your SO leaves they'll paint him as the ungrateful lout but if he leaves he will be in my eyes a much better SO and father.
It's easy for grandmommy despot to say she will change but mostly she lies to make things look good. She's not sorry, not one bit, and the way she shops for your son shows it. Come Christmas, I'd bag all her gifts and take them to the dumpster without opening them to let her know how much I appreciate her thoughtfulness.
You'll never gain her respect as long as you're living in that "You owe me" environment. I'd leave as soon as I possibly could, and let her EARN her way back into her grandchild's life if she wants to be there. I rather think she will show her true colors, waving bye-bye with one finger. Your child is better off without that toxic bitch anywhere near him. If her son would prefer to remain there, he deserves whatever she dishes him.
Oh and by the way, have you considered what vitriolic seeds she is planting in the minds of the children she is watching? Between you and the step-sibs mom, surely you could find a better child care provider than this crackasaurus wretch!
Good luck dear!

From the www.herpes.com.au website - If you are experiencing a severe first episode of genital herpes, you may notice that your lymph nodes (the glands in your groin, neck and armpit) are swollen, or that you have flu-like symptoms such as sore muscles, tiredness, headaches, fever and chills. You may notice swelling, pain or itching around the genitals, possibly followed by painful red spots that can form small blisters. These blisters may burst to form open sores or ulcers, which crust over and heal. You may also experience pain when urinating due to the tenderness in your genital area.

Herpes of the anus or rectum may also result in rectal and lower back pain, an urgent need to pass faeces, bloody or mucus discharge, constipation and blisters on the skin area around the anus.

After the first outbreak, the virus lives in the person for life.

This is not a small thing. It is a disgusting, putrid and repellent thing to do to someone, by simply being too lazy, stupid or selfish to wear a condom. If I was shopping for a boyfriend and he had herpes I would definitely say No Thanks.

If you are going to cheat on your partner, use a condom, it is the absolute least you can do to prove you have even the tiniest regard for them.

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