Not sure where this woman is coming from except that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, qwacks like a duck, THEN IT IS A DUCK! Maybe she's trying to convince herself otherwise by continuing this charade with you. I tend to agree with going with the girly stuff, and always keep a pair of sheer black thigh-hi's around because there's nothing like sexy lingere to enhance the erotica. Comere, loverboy!

This woman from college supplies exactly what I should want.

I think this statement of his sums up his predicament quite nicely. Presumably, she was the way he describes when he asked her out in the first place. There's not even any talk about how much he likes her, just that the have "many shared interests" and he knew her in college. Then they "started a relationship." No dating for a while to see where anything went (well, I guess it went straight to the bedroom). LW, part of being a man versus a "woman-using jerk" of a boy is knowing what you want, as opposed to what you should want. You started a relationship with a woman you don't even mention liking because you feel guilty about wanting someone girly and flirty. Well, women of substance can be girly and flirty, too. Women who are secure in themselves have no problem being a little girly, unlike the woman you describe who is too afraid of getting abandoned to be a woman (I'm guessing, since he mentions she "stopped playing the game," that she was once upon a time). Acting more like a man won't get her a good one. You, however, do need to act more like a man and do something about your relationship, such as it is. It's okay to want your woman to dress like one, but it's not okay to string this woman along because you feel guilty.

There's so much wrong with this that I'm not even starting on the whole letter, but this pissed me off:

She even put out with no work from me

Oh noes! She likes sex! She didn't 'put out,' as if it's something she's willing to do for you if you work hard enough, she had sex with you for both her and your enjoyment.
God forbid a woman doesn't play all coy and innocent and into the script that women aren't supposed to want sex as much as men.

Go on dude, go date someone who will make you work hard for sex, someone who views sex as the ultimate bargaining chip instead of as something enjoyable for the both of you. Then we'll see your letter coming with "My partner won't have sex with me anymore".

This woman from college supplies exactly what I should want.

Which was what?

... she was blunt on date one, challenging me to accept or reject her as a girlfriend.

Was that okay with you?

When I've gingerly addressed these issues, she thinks I'm trying to "modify" her.

First thing that came to mind was dual exhausts and a turbocharger, but it sounds to me like she doesn't want to be modified. Like NumberSix said above, you better make up your mind whether you can live with things the way they are or not.

Sounds like his girlfriend had snapped after being cheated on. What she's conveying to him may be that she doesn't trust him and doesn't think that he's worth the effort to be attractive for.

Yeah something is missing here: caring. This letter writer sounds very calculating, like he's entitled to a medal or something for no longer being a "woman-using jerk"? He hasn't changed as much as he thinks; he's still shopping for women by feature set as if she were a car or a computer.

Some guys like women who are forward; others don't. But it doesn't make this woman a defective person for being so blunt. Maybe her defensiveness is because she senses this cold-bloodedness? Maybe she'll change her tune with another guy who actually LIKES her. Or maybe she'll just have to find a different type of guy. Some of the tightest couples I know are folks where both guy and gal are very straightforward, no girly BS - and they're doing just fine, kids, years together, very lively and harmonious.

I don't buy the line that girls HAVE to be girly and hard to get. That may be 80% of the straight male population that likes that, for biological reasons, but statistical tendencies aren't absolute law. If that were the case, then gays would still be shoe-horning themselves into the majority's "straight biological imperatives".

I'd be flattered if a lesbian soccer team asked me to join. I'm not a lesbian but I might still do it. Why not?

So let's see if I got this straight...this guy went for a woman who didn't dress the way he liked because she was someone he is "supposed" to want...and then was disappointed that he got someone that didn't dress the way he liked and he isn't sure he likes? Yet somehow this is HER problem???? Um...no. Sounds like SHE has her shit together and he's a flake.

"... she was blunt on date one, challenging me to accept or reject her as a girlfriend."

This cracks me up. I can't imagine doing that on date one...or respecting a man who "accepted that challenge" on date one. You didn't even know her!

Sounds like she doesn't have much respect for you, and vice versa, but you two just made some sort of bet on the first date to stick it out with each other - she, because she was wounded and quickly needed a boyfriend to sooth her bruised ego, and you, as others have said, because you haven't learned how to separate what you should want from what you do want.

Now, it almost seems like you're worried about losing face over this bet or pact, which she manipulated out of you in the first place. Don't worry what she thinks. Go out and find a girl that rocks your world.

Sounds to me like they're both still confused about what relationships are really all about. She's not about to trust anyone just yet, and he wants her to conform to his idea of "girly" whether she's comfortable with it or not. He's still got some growing up to do. She's still licking her wounds. It's best to just let her be for a while. LW needs to go in a different direction. Like, away from this woman. Couldn't he read the signals at the onset? Guess not.

I have to give this LW credit for trying to change his own behavior. Guys in their early 20s are usually shallow and only interested in sex, but this fella is maturing and wants someone he can share more than just sex with. He also realizes he needs to modify his approach in order to get different results. So that puts him ahead of all those dummies who keep trying the same thing over and over (definition of insanity, and all that).

He's learning firsthand, however, that we can't always be attracted to the people we WISH we could be attracted to. If I could make myself be attracted to slobby guys who live in their parents' basements and do nothing but play video games all day, I'd have a lot of very appreciative men to choose from.

This gal, though - she's something else. 'I'm going to make myself as unattractive to you as I possibly can, and then I DARE you to not be attracted to me.' Challenging him to accept or reject her as a girlfriend on the first date? How the hell would you even know something like that after the first date? She might be okay, if she'd drop the "one of the guys" schtick and just be herself, but clearly she is still bitter over her past boyfriend. It seems the LW might actually like her better if she was still "playing the game."

The LW doesn't have to settle for vapid, empty-headed bimbos just to find a woman who will wear normal girl underwear and not act like a guy. Hopefully each of these experiences will teach him something new.

So? Was there a question in there somewhere?

You say there's something missing. Well, there you go. It doesn't mean there's something about either one of you that can be tweaked until it fits. It just means you're not done searching for your "relationship with substance".

She's not the one, dude. Move one, keep looking, have fun, and don't keep this going just because the sex is there at hand. (You didn't even say it was good.)

She says she's done playing the game. I think she's just playing a different one, and you have no chance of winning.

"I think you're awesome and a really cool person, but this relationship isn't working for me,"

"She says she's done playing the game. I think she's just playing a different one, and you have no chance of winning."

Very insightful.

" Guys in their early 20s are usually shallow and only interested in sex,..."

Only being interested in sex with women =/= shallow.

"...but this fella is maturing and wants someone he can share more than just sex with."

That =/= not shallow.

"Then this relationship fell on you like the house in 'The Wizard of Oz.' "

Best simile EVER! I never lol . . . . but I just did.

Wonderful!

I remember that phase of my 20's... screw all men, make them pay... for what I'm still trying to figure out. My own mistakes I suppose. But it boiled down to luring men into my trap then hurting them in any way possible. Sounds like this guy may have found someone in that stage.

The Goddess Writes: When people ask, "So, how'd you two lovebirds meet?" you don't want them guessing your answer will be something along the lines of "Standing next to each other at the urinal."

Hey! Watch it! Some of my most meaningful relationships began that way!

This story resembles those of a lot of people I know who are dating in their 30's.

The guys feel that they should be looking for someone to settle down with, but aren't attracted to the women they meet who offer that opportunity. The women have become jaded and sabotage potential relationships by being neurotic and inflexible. So they settle into these weird uncomfortable relationships that last a few years, result in nothing, and then move on to another person until they run out of options.

My advice is for people to settle down in their 20's when they're both attractive and lust will salve over their flaws and eccentricities. Even if it doesn't work out, you'll be in a better state when you're single again than the people who've been through the gauntlet of dating for the past several years.

And most of them ended that way, too.

Great answer, Amy.

This sounds almost like a bit of a convenience relationship to me, from both sides ... no major spark, but hey, the other person seems to be there in the right place at the right time and sort of seems to fit the bill 'OK enough I guess', type of thing. I think a woman must be sexy and feminine, or at least make an effort in that department, that keeps things exciting.

I think a woman must be sexy and feminine, or at least make an effort in that department, that keeps things exciting.

I think part of her problem is not that she's just not sexy and feminine, it's that she has recently made an effort not to be, as Pirate Jo detailed in her post above. They both have a bad case of the shoulds. He should want someone serious who doesn't dress girly or wear makeup; she should be able to be with a man who doesn't care about appearances; if he really were a mature man, he should lust after her even though she makes every effort to be anti-feminine. The fact that she puts out while not putting out any effort to let him woo her a bit fairly screams fear of abandonment. She's using sex to keep him around without having to actually be in a real relationship. So if he leaves her, she can comfort herself with the fact that she didn't really put herself out there, and that way she won't be hurt.

this fella is maturing and wants someone he can share more than just sex with.

But he's not done maturing, as he doesn't realize it's just as shallow to be with someone specifically because she's not the sexy, feminine type. I hope he realizes from this relationship (I use the word loosely) that he doesn't have to go to extremes. He can find someone who is sexy that he can have serious conversations with.

Both of these people need to grow up some more and she possibly needs counseling to help her get over the obvious issues she has.

Besides, as you surely know, it's hard enough being faithful to a really sexy woman, let alone one whose idea of staging a seduction involves undoing the top button of her flannel work jacket and burping suggestively.

I dunno; that'd work for me. ;)

Wow. It sounds like this woman's last boyfriend did a real number on her. Or at least completed the work that her lousy childhood/string of unfortunate relationship choices had already done.

Basically, he's dealing with a burn victim here. Not that he sounds much better. He keeps getting distracted by women who are "smiley-cute and flirty?" Great. Way to keep that sense of wonder alive.

My advice? Marry her now and let's pass on that whole cycle of dysfunction and magical thinking alive for the next generation.

This guy has a problem?

If he really doesn't like this woman or want to be with her, for ANY reason, he should break up with her. Find someone he does like, who is attractive to him. You like what you like, no apologies. He isn't doing HER any favors by staying with her. Set her free and set himself free.

However, on our first date, she said her last boyfriend cheated on her, and she's "quit playing the game."

Sounds to me like she hasn't gotten over her last relationship. She probably put a lot of effort into it, got hurt, and now wants to punish her ex. But since she can't punish him, she'll have to settle for punishing you.

Run like the wind and don't look back.

This gal has one foot on the other side of the fence and is slowly swinging the other one over. Like above...if it looks like a duck...

Have a good time with her, on her terms. Don't complain about the easy sex: Count your blessings! Ride her as long as you can, or until she comes around and realizes that she really like girls better. Don't get emotionally invested with her. Keep a look out for someone more feminine to have a real relationship with.

I agree with prickleypear, she's just playing another game. If you don't play games, the last thing you do is say "I don't play games anymore". it's passive-aggressive bullshit right from the start. Steer clear buddy.

They both sound very wounded, so neither of them should be dating at all. The guy should just keep sleeping around with women that turn him on, and she should take care of herself and rebuild her self-esteem.

Maybe eventually they will figure out who they are and what they want, you know, do a bit of work on self-awareness. Then he will know what he actually wants, not what he 'should' want, and she won't hate all men.

Nobody has to be bitter and vindictive, at any age, if they take responsibility for themselves and their own actions, and they set boundaries.

Yeah, some guys like sportier girls but that doesn't mean that she has to be all sport and no game. I know tons of sporty girls who play hard and can get dirty no problem, but they still paint their nails, shave, and wear lip gloss.

Time to cut your losses because if she's already upset that you want her to change (even if it's something small), what compromises can you two make as a couple without "modifying" her?

LW, man, you were supposed to keep your experience a secret...

This reminds me of a story my "uncle" used to tell me.
To paraphrase:

"When I was in high school I dated lots of cheerleaders and fun girls. They all had big boobs and but were ditzy and shallow."

"So when I got to college I said screw the ditz I wanted girls with SUBSTANCE. So i dated a bunch of girls that were artsy and creative....but also crazy and flaky."

"By the time I graduated from college I was tired of the crazy and flaky. So I found myself a hard driving goal oriented career girl. I liked that so much that I ended up marrying her. Turns out she was so hard driving that she divorced me a few years later for a spousal upgrade and took me for everything I had."

"Now? Now....I'm just looking for a girl that knows how to have fun. And with big boobs."

They both sound really, really young and silly. She's in her post-bad-relationship-overly-feminist funk, he's in his "oh look, I'm so not shallow" pretentious phase. None of it has anything at all to do with finding someone they really like or having a real relationship. It doesn't even sound fun. How sad, but I suspect they'll both get over it, although certainly not with each other.

I have more on the price so that people are encourage to pocketpussy1
buy them. Rnd 9: Sc in each sc to last sc, break off pink, ch 1, work
reverse sc in each sc around, join, ch1, turn.
You don't have to clock in and out, but he asked a lot of work to still pocketpussy1 left to do.

You need to be strong enough to face the difficult task
of your life back, give personal pax vaporizer a try.
To use, an operator adds cool water in the pax vaporizer water
container. This smoke can be inhaled. This means that this can clear the blocked
air passage ways in the respiratory system is the one affected.

It was used to primarily smoke local as well as others.