I normally love your column; however, this has got to be the lamest advice ever. If a woman wanted to go on a group date I would think she is stuck in high school. My advice to her is “get over it.” You will probably have to meet a bunch of people to find someone. If you feel that a Hawaiian subway is not good date, LEAVE. Generally speaking, if someone really likes the person it doesn’t matter where you go (within reason.)
If you find yourself getting “bitterly annoyed” because other people are not entertaining enough, save the rest of the men or women you may date a favor and get a cat.

Agree with David H. I mean cmon, this woman went on ONE mediocre date and is ready to call it quits? That's like dropping out of college because you got a C on a pop quiz. There's a reason for the saying you gotta kiss a lot of frogs...Seems like she'd be much more successful if she chilled out and developed a sense of humor.

Group dates are unpleasant for introverts.

Would Gregg agree to go on one?

Also agree with the commenters, not with Amy. Here are some of the dates I've had:

-- Going to an outdoor art fair(in NYC), the girl showed up an hour late, made no conversation, and texted during.
-- Going to a restaurant, where the girl ordered an incredibly messy cheesy thing that made her look like a complete slob.
-- A girl who talked my ear off about her pro-choice activism for 3 hours.
-- A girl who was fine with a bowling date, but thought that a t-shirt and jeans were too casual for that.

I kept at it, eventually found a girl who went ice skating with me last New Year's, then came back to my place to watch "Up.". 6.5 months and all's well so far...

Have to kiss a lot of frogs, as Shannon says.

I went on a blind date last Sunday, set up by a friend of mine. My friend had offered to arrange a group thing so I could get to meet her in casual circumstances because she knows I'm nervous about this stuff. I said no to that and said "just give me her number and I'll take it from there". And it went well, we planned enough flexibility into it that it could be short if either of us wanted to bail, or as it happened, stretch out into dinner. The group date I find really ambiguous - are you just meeting people that you then have to ask out? Are there certain pairs lined up beforehand or is it a competition? I'd much rather the certainty of a date where it's clear that you're getting to know someone with the intention of finding out whether a relationship will work. I'm sick of "we'll hang out and see what happens". If it doesn't work I'll have to try again (and god knows I'm not great at that), but at least I have clarity.

Checked out the Ignighter website, looks like a hookup plan for 20 year olds to me. Hell, I date very rarely - but I expect it to be fun when I do, not a trial. The answer to awkwardness and nervousness is not to create a support group - it's to get over it.

I've never had a date I totally hated, even in my online dating phase. I always found the people interesting, even if there was no spark, at least interesting enough to hang out with for a couple hours.

Of course, I don't know if they felt the same way! Maybe I was the date from hell! ;) But none of my dates were.

I screened them by exchanging a few emails.

Also weighing in against Amy: Group dating? Gack. But also against the almost blind "dating" in the sense that Underwhelmed is talking about - that's more like Russian Roulette.

Interesting people do not meet other interesting people at bars. If you are an interesting person, you have enough interests to choose one where you will meet members of the opposite sex. Join a club, take a course, whatever people with that hobby do.

When you meet someone in this kind of context, you see them in daylight (as opposed to drunk in a dimly lit bar). Ýou can tell what kind of person they are. You can figure out whether or not they are the type of person you want a one-on-one encounter with.

You never know where lightning will strike. The idea is just to give it more opportunities, and to do so in a way that you can decide if you want to be "struck" by that particular bolt...

Dating is like that. If you're looking for a relationship, the point of dating is to weed through the people you don't like very much (or enough).

Consider the date a success. One more person you don't have to waste your time with.

Monica P is right you have to weed people out. In the mean time you have some great and potentially funny stories to tell about dating hell.

A few years ago I had a cute younger girl that worked at the local college flirt with me.

I asked her out and she accepted. I told her I would pick her up. She said she could meet me in town as she lived a few miles out of town. I told her that if she was okay with it I didn't mind picking her up at her place. She thought that was really a big deal and said how nice it was as most guys didn't do that. I thought it was normal as that's the way I was raised to go pick the gal up.
Once we got in the car she seemed to lose her professional demeanor I had known from the college. She asked to turn my radio on and proceeded to check all the radio stations it was tuned to. She laughed and made fun of my choices in music. I like classic rock and 80's she liked punk rock, grunge and scream music. Not sure what they call it. After about 5 minutes in the car she told me that if we were going to continue to date I was going to have to change my taste in music and she promptly began to reprogram the radio stations in my car to the ones she liked.

The professional looking gal from the college was actually a little party girl in disguise. She told me about all the clubs she liked to go to and how she went out like 4-5 nights a week, following certain bands around town.
Not my cup of tea.
After dinner and a movie I took her home. I pulled up in her driveway and she stalled apparently waiting for me to kiss her. We sat in the dark, in the car, in her driveway for 45 minutes. I knew we didn't have anything in common and I wasn't going to kiss her to mislead her into thinking we would be seeing each other again. She finally said she needed to get in as she had to work the next day but call her.
She seemed clueless that we had absolutely nothing in common.

I spent the long drive home reprogramming my radio stations back to the ones I like.

What's up with 'there's no good men/women out there'. We had the with women a couple of weeks ago and now we have it with me.

It's *one* date and you can't expect them all to be to your cup of tea. Certainly I might have *loved* a quirky little out of the way Hawaiian place. I adore offbeat finds. Doesn't mean it should be to your taste, but doesn't give grounds for being bitter.

Make sure the date can be short and at the very least look for the good, humorous story. Most dates with someone you don't know aren't going to go anywhere just because you don't click. Doesn't mean there's no good guys/girls out there. If you're not careful, LR, you'll end up sending out bad vibes and no-one is going to want to ask you out to dinner.

The first date is to find out what the person is like. If they can't make eye contact or think that a dinner date means Subway, you found out something.

As MpnicaP said, "Consider the date a success. One more person you don't have to waste your time with."

Is Amy get kickbacks from this group dating site? Because I can't think of any other way to explain her recommendation of this incredibly lame idea.

Not to be the turd in the punchbowl here but there seems to be this ever present pressure to have the perfect date or find the perfect soulmate every time out in public. There's an old saying in baseball that I'm sure can apply to dating life, "you can't try harder, you have to try easier."

I met my current girlfriend at a bar where a band was playing that we both had very limited interest in. I went becuase a group of friends convinced me to as did she. I was sick and in no mood to meet anyone. I saw her standing slightly outide of her friend group as they were smokers and she was not. I was in the same boat. I noticed her, thought she was beautiful and left it at that just because I wasn't feeling overly social. A few moments later I found her standing next to me. I said, "Hi." She said, "I like your beard." We talked while our friends smoked before the band came on. The music started, I grabbed her hand and said, "Let's watch together." We did.

When the band was nearly finished, she handed me her card told me to call her and she took off. I called. Our first "date" was on my birthday. Nearly two years later we're buying a home and starting our lives and planning marriage.

Dating doesn't always have to be completely structured and follow some set of arbitrary rules. We should be capable of simple conversation even when the situation is not ideal. That can lead to unlikely dates. I didn't lead with some "dating profile" with rules and regs and neither did she, we just had a good time together and lo and behold we're making it just fine. In fact, I communicate better with her than with anyone I've ever dated. Sure, maybe it's coincidence that we started with a simple conversation in a completely random time and place. Or maybe two people who can just talk to each other can find success fairly easily.

Continuing with CJ's baseball analogy, if a player gets three hits for every ten at-bats, he's considered a pretty good hitter. If this date didn't go so well, go on another one. Sure, you might have to adjust your technique as time passes, but who wouldn't?

The 20 minute coffee date is the best first one. You get to meet, see if there is anything there, and then decide if you want to see them again. I don't understand why people put themselves through the torture of a full date with a total stranger.

You also have to go into the dating scene with the attitude of enjoying meeting new people, and expanding your horizons, as in not being judgemental.

Don't know about the group date thing, rather iffy. Sounds more like way to meet someone new but not take someone on a date. You get to see how she spends all her time talking with her best buds and ignores you, ehh no.
For me the best place to meet women is on hikes with groups. But that is meeting new people not a specific date. For a couple hours all you do is talk and walk, worst out of it you got a good workout and got to see some good scenery, best you get someones # for a date later.

As to the coffee thing, I know plenty of women that swear by it, until you ask them if any second dates came out of it. Then it dawns on them it's so noncommittal and easy to "escape" the date that it is rare that he or her ever continue.

I agree with Chrissy on coffee, though 20 minutes seems very short. I'd give 'em an hour or two... heck, in some places 20 minutes is barely enough time to GET the coffee let alone drink it.

But coffee is a good, low-pressure drink.

I vehemently disagree with the "taking classes" suggestion. Never, ever have I met someone in a continuing ed class outside of a full-time degree program. Either everyone there is female, as in dance classes, or the spread of ages makes it so there aren't enough singles in the same age group.

I met my husband on a blind date. At coffee, actually. Cafe Algiers in Harvard Square. I believe I had the mint hot chocolate.

I met my husband on a blind date. At coffee, actually. Cafe Algiers in Harvard Square. I believe I had the mint hot chocolate.

Is that a tip NicoleK? What did he have? :)

I completely agree with you about the taking classes suggestion. Seems to me to fall into the same category as the take up a hobby type suggestions - at best you get a new group of friends, at worst you get a nice new toxic environment full of interpersonal conflict and cliques to cope with. Ok, I've seen some people meet that way, but the odds don't seem to be any better than just living your life. If it's something you want to do that's fine - but I wouldn't go into it for the purpose of meeting someone.

Wow. Amy's taking a rare beating today. But I have to agree with the commenters. Unless LW is more young than adult, group dating sounds lame. Maybe LW is really shy?

PS -

@Chrissy, substitute "alcohol" for "coffee" and I agree with you.

It's not a bad idea for meeting new people Amy, and I'm certainly not fussed about it being a pay site. I suppose I just wouldn't call it a date, more an alternative to the bar culture.

I think your approach to introducing people in a group situation is fine if they don't know about it. In my case both of us knew and I would have found a group of people around me and the expectation of "do I ask her out properly" even more awkward than a bad date - so I preferred to go all in and find out quickly.

Maybe I'm biased because it went well and I have a followup this Sunday :)

Plus perhaps I felt like someone organising a group just to make me feel more comfortable was a bit...weak? I wanted to show that nervous or not I had the courage to front up and deal with it. In this case, I'm pretty certain I made the right call.

A group meeting is fine. It is a good alternative to bars and matching sites. It is just another way to meet people. The letter writer is still going to be a be "bitterly annoyed" if she met the guy on a group date and then went out on a private date. Many people act different in groups than one on one.

I feel my original comments about her getting a cat if she can't handle disappointment are valid.

I think Amy would be the first to admit that no piece of advice applies to everyone. We have to remember that she's probably had more correspondence with the LW than just what is published. I can see situations where something like that might work. Let me tell you a story...

When I was in my early 30s and finally looking again after a bad marriage and divorce, one of my problems was that I didn't know many single people. A friend of mine put me on to some singles who had an informal dinner group. They all met for dinner one or two times a week, and occasionally there was a party at someone'e house.

I'm actually better in a one-and-one situation than I am in a group, but my problem was always making the initial contact. I've never been that comfortable with just randomly approaching women in public, and I was never the kind of guy that very many women flirt with. A group situation was perfect for that; we were already together and sharing an activity, so striking up a conversation was expected in that situation. It helped me with my screening skills too; for instance, there was one gal there who was cute and funny, but after a few conversations with her, I realized that she was not wanting a serious relationship, so I crossed her off my list. Saved us both a lot of heartache.

I think the point of Amy's advice to this particular situation was that the LW is uncomfortable in some way that causes her to come across to her dates as disinterested or threatening. Starting off in a setting where expectations are lower is one way to approach that, and a group would be one such setting. Something like "It's Just Lunch" might work too.

I think a group setting is a great, no-pressure way to meet someone for the FIRST time, but once you've established a connection and decided you want to get to know each other further, you should bite the bullet and do it solo.

I know I wouldn't want my friends along on a first date-I'd be too worried about what everyone thought of each other, if everyone was having fun, if I was striking the right balance to being attentive to my date versus my friends, etc, to really relax, focus on my date, and have a good time. I can see the value of having friends along if it was a really casual invite, like "Hey, I'm going to be at this party and you should come too," but that kinda defeats the purpose of asking someone on a real date, right?

I disagree about coffee or dinner being the ideal first date. Too much opportunity to stare at each other and feel awkward and try to figure out what to say. For me, a good first date involves some sort of low key activity that also allows conversation, but gives you something outside the two of you to focus on as well: A hike, a visit to a museum, an art show, a county fair, a trade show for something you're both interested in, a convention ditto, a Renn Faire if you're both geeky (my husband and I are) -- anything of that sort. Go do something together, and see if you have fun, for heaven's sake.

Worldwide Wrestling Federation--WWF-- is the best effing first date possible. Chicks secretly dig all the drama and hormones--wet panty time.

I really dislike being in groups of people, especially if I don't know most of them. When I am in a group, I usually end up interacting with 1 or 2 and ignore the rest. I'd so no to group dating if I was looking for someone.

I wonder how this advice ties back to the human journey through the ages of being biologically hard wired to group date.

I think the real distinction is not group vs couples dating, but rather activities vs interviews. Chicagoans have their beach volleyball and softball leagues in the summer. After games rival groups meet up for happy hour in wicker park to recount events, talk smack, and flirt. Here in Phoenix we have Rock and Box events for the food pantry, where big groups assist and compete for a good cause. It's a casual way to talk to people while focussed on a task, being active, having fun, and distracted from the usual introduction jitters. One-on-one activities are harder to come by...bowling, riding. I'm open to other suggestion people have.

"This guy I met at a club seemed great"

Oh yeah, because clubs are the best place to meet quality, long-term-material, men.

"How do we stay in the dating game without becoming bitterly annoyed?"

Just Have Fun. Keep it light, remember to not take each date too seriously, and remember that it's a numbers game (just statistically, it's perfectly normal that you're going to have to meet a lot of guys before finding one where it might work out, so you might as well enjoy the process). They can't all be gems. You don't like, you move on. Simple. I don't see what there is to become 'bitter' about (puzzled), unless you're subconsciously perceiving some internal failure and seek to project blame externally.

Also, if you really don't want to waste your time with losers, take some responsibility for the way you choose who to date --- think about what qualities you want, think about where you're likely to find a man with such qualities, and only say yes to dates with guys who seem to match those qualities. Hint, "seemed great in the club" is NOT a good dating criterion. You'll have to 'think' about the decision, not just 'feel'.

I'm not convinced about the groups idea, since most people are quite different in groups vs. one-on-one, but if you're going to go past 'date 1' with anyone, you'll have to know how they are in both settings, so it probably doesn't hurt either.

"I almost never fix people up on one and one dates, which can be really awkward. I invite both to an event and introduce them and see if they like each other. If they do, they'll make a date."

I met my current girlfriend in such a setting, except I was invited along specifically in order to be introduced to a totally different girl who was also there. I also had no idea the invitation was a setup until I arrived, and wasn't even looking for a girlfriend. Good thing I wasn't told, as I'd probably have screwed it up somehow if I had known, e.g. by being a lot more self-conscious. So yeah, maybe that is a good way.