So, His Wild Oats
I offhandedly mentioned to a friend that I thought her married brother was really cute. She revealed that his divorce (from a 10-year marriage) would soon be final. (It will be at the end of this month.) She then played matchmaker. He and I have been dating for three months. Things were going fabulously -- until a few nights ago. We were picking a movie to watch on his laptop, and I noticed one of his browser pages was opened to Match.com. He saw that I saw it but said nothing. The thought that he's continuing his search for romance hurts. I feel like I'm not good enough. I've gone from being comfortable seeing where this goes to wanting to have the "define the relationship" talk. Am I being irrational? Should I just try to relax? (Of course, he could've been on Match because he's canceling his membership or tying up loose ends.)
--Beside Myself
Sure, the guy could've been on Match to cancel his membership -- or to inflate his salary and height. He's just getting out of a 10-year marriage. This is the time for a man to play the field -- or, in Tennyson's words, "When sprung, a young man's fancy turns to ill-advised sex with a string of bar sluts."
Whoops, just as he was about to finish picking the lock on his ball and chain, up popped you. He likes you, he's having fun with you, but the timing is still the timing. Instead of expecting him to take himself off the market before he's even signed his divorce papers, consider that his comparison shopping is not only in his best interest but yours. If, after seeing who's out there, he comes back to you, it's because he wants you for all the things you are, as opposed to the one thing you're not: his almost-ex-wife.
Of course you want to nail down a good thing -- especially when you suspect it's been trolling the Internet for your replacement. But, having the "define the relationship" talk at this point would most likely define the relationship right out of existence. You can't make a man commit. What you can do is make the most out of whatever time you have together -- which takes accepting that things end and that you can't order up love without the risks: "I'll take the candle-lit dinners, regular sex, and somebody to snake the drain -- but no heartbreak, no pickles, and a Diet Coke with three ice cubes."
It's actually when you stop trying to hang on to a guy and you just try to have fun hanging out that he's more likely to want to stick around. Tell this guy you understand his situation and the timing, and just ask whether he's dating other women. He should get the sense that you aren't somebody he can put on hold indefinitely, and you should set up some sort of cutoff date in your own mind to ensure that he won't. Meanwhile, if he isn't exclusive to you, you should make yourself a little less available. Give him a chance to miss you. In time, maybe he'll be all yours -- or maybe he won't. If you need a guarantee, date a washing machine. You can tell people you met online -- on Sears.com: "I flirted with a Whirlpool first, but he had me at 30 percent off until midnight."








Ladies, if you're wondering if you're being irrational on a subject relating to men...chances are good, that this is the first rational thought you've had on the subject.
The fairer sex as a rule, seems to make that stuff much more complicated than we do.
Miss Alkon is dead on. Don't stress about it, 3 months is not a lifetime commitment, and it is good for both if he's not dead set focused on one person yet. A marriage ending, especially a long one, is a big deal. If anything, the LW should be worried if he were NOT seeing anyone else from the time his marriage ended, to the present, except for herself. That would smack of rebound desperation. His behavior is healthy, and the LW would do well to imitate him on it. Enjoy each others company, have fun, but don't tie yourselves to a ship that may not be going when or where you want it to.
Robert at May 31, 2011 5:35 PM
It's pretty stupid For her gf to have set them up in the first place.
Some guys are going to want to sleep around, like Amy says, but I've known plenty of others who've gone right from a divorce into another heavy relationship. Because they're trying to restore what they'd lost. But neither reaction tends to be permanent. So it's generally a good idea to give them a wide berth. You certainly don't want to try to hook them up with you're female friends unless they know what expect.
Jake at May 31, 2011 6:33 PM
It's pretty stupid For her gf to have set them up in the first place.
Some guys are going to want to sleep around, like Amy says, but I've known plenty of others who've gone right from a divorce into another heavy relationship. Because they're trying to restore what they'd lost. But neither reaction tends to be permanent. So it's generally a good idea to give them a wide berth. You certainly don't want to try to hook them up with you're female friends unless they know what expect.
Jake at May 31, 2011 7:41 PM
If, after seeing who's out there, he comes back to you, it's because he wants you for all the things you are, as opposed to the one thing you're not: his almost-ex-wife.
She's a lot of things: Available, interested, new, a woman with a working vagina, a shoo in with his sister and virtually a 'sure thing' sex wise. Just the thing a man with a damaged ego wants in his first relationship.
Jake is right. A guy in his position could become a needy person who wants to slide into another LTR because he prefers them.
She got the other option.
Now she gets to be his sexual healer while he puts his head back together. I'm not sure when her 'really cute' translated from 'a guy to have some laughs with' to her writing 20 times in her diary "MRS. Divorced Guy", but obviously, he's still on the casual dating thing.
But...he could just be looking, not applying. No, I'm not grasping at straws as much as the LW is with her 'closing his account' comment.
This might be in her interest. If, after browsing the Match field, he doesn't see any fillies who meet his criterias or respond, he might come to appreciate a good thing when he has it.
So, in the interst of giving 'real world advice' to the young lady, let me give two words of advice: fellatio and steaks. Add copious quantities of both to his life and he might very well say 'Match what?'.
flydye at May 31, 2011 8:03 PM
Her wanting a LTR may be overstating things a bit but she is certainly more serious and 'exclusive' then he is right now.
flydye at May 31, 2011 10:35 PM
If this guy was immediately exclusive and serious with anyone before the ink is even dry on the divorce papers, that would be a huge red flag. This is not a red flag at all.
Settle down, letter writer. It's not all about you. For crying out loud, get some wisdom.
whistleDick at June 1, 2011 12:14 AM
Ridiculous. So what if there was a Match page on his browser? Maybe he was curious. Maybe he was canceling his subscription. Maybe he was looking to see if she was on it. Or possibly he was looking for his ex-wife on it. So what?
Then again, I know when I got divorced the last thing on my mind was another stinking relationship. He is nailing some easy ass...good for him.
mike at June 1, 2011 5:38 AM
So what was the LW doing before her gf introduced her to the brother - just hanging around waiting for an introduction?
How silly. Get on with your life, LW, with or without Divorced Guy. You should be out having fun with other guys, too, not just mooning over some divorced guy and wondering if he's you. Chances are, he hasn't had time to figure it out yet. Have fun with him, but don't cut your options. There are other guys out there with less baggage. Don't get yourself caught up in his just yet.
Flynne at June 1, 2011 6:01 AM
...wondering if he's into you!
Flynne at June 1, 2011 6:02 AM
LW, at three months, he probably doesn't know if you're good enough. And, since he's freshly divorced, I'm not sure either one of you should trust his judgment at this point. And, at three months, how do you know he's good enough? So I'll join the chorus: Ease up! Have a little fun -- he may be around later, or maybe not, but you might not be that interested in him later anyway.
Old RPM Daddy at June 1, 2011 6:07 AM
Give him a chance to miss you.
This is great advice for all relationships.
sofar at June 1, 2011 7:19 AM
The guy's sister didn't really do him any favors by fixing him up so soon after the divorce. From personal experience, any guy who gets divorced after a long-term relationship is going to have a lot of unsettled questions in his mind (all right, issues). It's way too soon for him to jump into a serious relationship.
The LW should take that into advisement. She can continue to date the guy on a non-exclusive basis if she wants (and yes, that pendulum swings both ways). Or, if she wants a serious relationship now, she should break it off with him. What she shouldn't do is put her own life on hold waiting for him to get his stuff together -- it may be a while.
Cousin Dave at June 1, 2011 7:20 AM
Quote: "He is nailing some easy ass...good for him."
Which is fine, as long as the ass is aware of her status.
I really hate to speculate, but I wonder if his leaving the Match.com tab up was accidentally on purpose, so she would know without him having to tell her explicitly, that they aren't exclusive.
Meloni at June 1, 2011 7:41 AM
It might be important for these speculations to know why the guy got the divorce.
May be, his ex was too eager to look into his browser history.
Mere Mortal at June 1, 2011 8:32 AM
The fact that his divorce is just being finalized may mean he has actually been on his own and dating for quite a while. My divorce took four years and after about a one-year hiatus, I was dating quite a bit. It's been many more years and I'm still not sure I'm ready for another commitment of that magnitude.
Is there really a reason to marry if you don't plan to have children and fully integrate physically financially? That kind of relationship seems inconceivable to me now. Once was enough. Yet I liked being married and having kids. Living under the cloud of a constantly disappointed spouse was another thing. And if people are middle aged and self-reliant, why bother?
DR at June 1, 2011 8:46 AM
"Yet I liked being married and having kids. Living under the cloud of a constantly disappointed spouse was another thing. And if people are middle aged and self-reliant, why bother?"
Because it doesn't turn out that way for a lot of couples. You picked the wrong partner. It happens. But that doesn't mean marriage itself is a waste of time.
I'm middle-aged, self-sufficient, and just got married, and I'm excited about changing my name and merging our lives together.
But there are people who genuinely shouldn't get married because they don't see the point. It's like going to college because you like a course or two, not because you see any value in getting the degree. How likely will you be to finish then?
lovelysoul at June 1, 2011 10:00 AM
Well, at least she wrote to Amy before emailing spyware to his computer from a fake Match.com prospect.
Amy's right. Putting blinders on a man will not make him sooner commit to you. Besides, do you really want to spend the rest of your life setting up distractions every time a tight sweater walks by?
Patrick at June 1, 2011 11:48 AM
My complimetns to Amy's / commenters' advice regarding timing and the divorcee's frame of mind. Taking it slow and steady sounds right.
I will add that if things go well, at some point the LW does needs to broach the discussion of exclusivity. How else would the LW's SO know to stop dating other people? How else would the SO know that the LW isn't dating others too?
I know there are two schools of thought on this topic. But I've never understood the one that assumes exclusivity. When does that assumption kick in, on the second date, the fourth date? Knowing that everyone has different expectations, how can anyone expect their's to match another's without discussion?
I suggest that the LW be the one to begin the discussion because in this case she's the one with the expectation. Whoever has an assumption should question it with someone else.
TL at June 1, 2011 3:06 PM
If LW is looking for a serious relationship now, she needs to move on. This guy isn't ready and may not be for a long time. Rightly so, he just ended a long marriage. I think he made sure she saw his match.com page as a "hint" that he has no intentions of being exclusive with her. So if she's OK with a nonexclusive casual dating situation, she can keep seeing him, but if not, there is no point in her wasting any more of her time or emotional energy on this guy.
IsisM at June 1, 2011 6:37 PM
Does this guy have kids from this ten year marriage? If he does, run, do not walk away from this relationship.
If you are worried about Match.com you will be insane when he puts his kids and their welfare over you on a regular basis.
And if he doesn't put his kids first, he is not much of a human being.
Isabel1130 at June 1, 2011 8:42 PM
Why, Why, Why, did you go out with a guy who was not yet completely divorced? YOU set yourself up to be the rebound woman. This man is not ready for a long term exclusive relationship with anyone! He would not be normal if he was not looking at his options. He may have been hoping you would start a fight and break up with him when he allowed you to glimpse the dating page on his computer.
If you feel you need to have the "define the relationship talk" go right a head but be ready to hear he is not ready to define ANYTHING! He may very well tell you he needs to play the field for a while. He may tell you he already is playing the field.
Your friend did you no favor to line you up with her divorcing (read still married) brother and you allowed your hormones to carry you away.
I have a friend who told me he knew he had not been divorced long enough to date again but when someone who was very special came along he decided to break his rule of not dating for two years. He felt awful when she was ready for a commitment and he was not. She broke up with him because he was not yet ready to commit to her. They both got their hearts broken.
Get out of this give the man his freedom and let him figure out what he needs. If you two are meant for each other then in a year or so, you will both know it and get back together.
Good God woman give the man some time!
Worthit at June 1, 2011 10:13 PM
DR,
"Is there really a reason to marry if you don't plan to have children and fully integrate physically financially? That kind of relationship seems inconceivable to me now."
Man, same here. I'm exactly where you are and I've been divorced for nearly five years now. The one thing that I worry about is the whole "dying alone" thing, but it honestly doesn't really bother me enough to fully integrate my life with someone else. There are quite a few people that love me (children, sibling, etc) and I don't feel lonely at all. In fact, I feel free as hell. If a long term romantic relationship happens, it happens. But I couldn't imagine desperately looking for one.
whistleDick at June 2, 2011 1:22 AM
Everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the guy isn't ready to commit, but reading the letter again, there's nothing really that supports this.
Everyone is also making the assumption that he hasn't been on his own for very long, but, as someone else pointed out, divorces can take some time. The LW says that his sister told her his divorce would be FINAL soon, not that he was just packing up to leave his wife. I find it unlikely that his sister would've been fixing him up the moment he left his wife.
My divorce took over 2 years, and I was dating during almost that entire time. I'd already had my rebound "flings", so by the time the divorce was final, I was ready for a real relationship.
In fact, when my new husband and I went to get our marriage license, it struck me how our final divorce dates were not that long ago. When we met, he was still going through his divorce, and had only been split from his ex for around 6 months.
So, to give the LW some hope here, it is POSSIBLE that he really likes you, and only had "Match" open to end his membership, take a break, or send some of the women he had been dating or corresponding with a nice, "I met someone" farewell.
You can't know until you have "the talk", and three months in is a perfectly appropriate time to have it.
lovelysoul at June 2, 2011 5:58 AM
I feel like exclusivity has to occur organically: you start spending all your free time together, keeping in touch through texting/calling/skyping when you're not together, and it becomes obvious that neither of you has the time or inclination to be pursuing anyone else. This is the point where you want to have the "are we exclusive" conversation: when you're just putting a label on something that's already happening.
If the relationship is at this point, then the existence of the match.com account is irrelevant-LW would be able to tell if he was dating other women and should assume he's not. If their relationship isn't at this point-ie they only see each other occasionally, don't really keep in contact when they aren't together--then the LW should assume that he is free to pursue and/or actively pursuing other women. Either way, the match.com account is a moot point and shouldn't be treated with undue importance.
Shannon at June 2, 2011 8:20 PM
I think Shannon raises a good point. If there is a question in your mind you are exclusive, you aren't.
But by the same token, some people are much better at the 'unspoken agreements' then the perenially clueless like myself.
flydye at June 3, 2011 3:17 AM
The LW didn't say she wanted anything exclusive. She stated she was comfortable spending time with him and seeing where things went. She saw he was on match.com and that sparked her interest in a "define the relationship" conversation. To me, that doesn't translate into a "I want to be exclusive" talk.
Giggles at June 4, 2011 12:52 PM
Sorry, but I can't publish novel-length letters so I have to cut them down a bit. I could have put in three more lines about how she wants this to be exclusive, but these seemed sufficient.
Amy Alkon at June 4, 2011 2:16 PM
I still don't see why that is a big deal. She saw that he was on match.com and realized she wanted more. So what! And she even wanted to discuss it with him before pretending to be his girlfriend. And, even better, she thought of the many reasons he could have been on match.com, instead of assuming anything. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Find someone who's wants/needs/desires mesh well with our own? Aren't we supposed to communicate those things with others so that all parties are fully aware of their situations? If not, think about the advice LW would be seeking a year from now after assuming she's his girlfriend. I say have the talk. If you either of you want more/less than the other, hit the road. No sense in either of them wasting any more time. Assumptions are the mother of a fuck ups. Good for her for wanting to be straight forward with this guy. If I was him, I'd gladly sign off of match.com and put all my eggs in her basket.
Giggles at June 5, 2011 1:54 PM
*assumptions are the mother of ALL fuck ups.
Giggles at June 5, 2011 2:03 PM
Is it possible that she is assuming exclusivity and he isn't? He could be dating other people, not because he's a creep, but because he never assumed to be exclusive.
Joe at June 5, 2011 6:33 PM
Some say you should never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. If LW asks, she has to be willing to accept a negative answer. That can of worms might just be best left closed.
They say that there's no such thing as an "accident". If he had Match.com opened while you were on his laptop, then somewhere deep inside of him, he meant for you to see that. It could even be passive-aggressiveness on his part, and he might not be capable of handling a serious discussion with you about his intentions if he knows how serious you have already become.
Re: divorce paperwork - mine took over 2 years to complete, but i was back "out there" dating before the 1st year was up, for sure. The clock stops for no one. How could i pass up a date with a hot young dude just because someone says ink has to be dry???
Steak, fellatio, tight sweaters, separation anxiety, time to himself, etc all aside, if this man is truly the LW's match, he will still be there by her side when the ink IS dry. Have a great time with him, and let things fall naturally into place. Spending energy on fretting causes bad karma, and he'll back off for sure. But in the end, if it wasn't meant to be, there's nothing on God's green earth that you can do to keep him by your side, and when he's been through 1 divorce, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will be that much more cautious on all future relationships, as he should be.
Breathe, woman, breathe. Show him that you have your own life, your own interests, and you are capable of standing on your own 2 feet.
Take a step back for your own good, LW. Get out there with your g/fs and have a great time. Show him you can live happily without him, but also show him that you have fun when you're with him. It's called BALANCE. You might just surprise yourself and have more fun with someone other than him.
Bluejean Baby at June 6, 2011 8:32 PM
"They say that there's no such thing as an "accident".
No trust me, there is such a thing :) Without going into details, I can assure you I've accidentally left things visible on my computer that I can completely guarantee you I didn't intend exposed.
Lobster at June 8, 2011 2:03 AM
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