Of course, most 26 year-old women still keep stuffed animals and decorate like they're 12—so fuck them.

If you're seriously pursuing an actual business plan rather than just saying that you'd like to take pictures of stuff, then you don't have any time to date anyway.

If the business gets successful, you'll be getting all the pussy you need.

Wow, Razor. That was pretty nasty. You must be a cellar dweller yourself.

Who knew life could be this tough?

> If you're seriously pursuing an actual business
> plan rather than just saying that you'd like to
> take pictures of stuff, then you don't have any
> time to date anyway.

Not sure that's true. I've got friends who work 80 hours per week and still find time to date.

> If the business gets successful, you'll be
> getting all the pussy you need.

I wish that were true, but unless you're talking about extreme success I haven't found that to be the case. I know many geeky type guys with upper middle class incomes who still struggle to get dates.

I wonder how a guy really working 80 hr weeks has time to date?

Our current economy is changing the way a lot of people live. Multi-generational households are becoming more and more common. It can make a great deal of economic sense to do so.

It is also difficult from the outside to tell the difference between a free-loading basement-dweller and and someone with a plan for the future that is economizing.

Still, people are still adjusting and the ick factor for a supposed grown up to be living with mummy and daddy will still occur.

My advice to LW is to pay money every month for rent and expenses. Even if the parents aren't charging you. Put it aside as if they were and get out there and hustle to get your new career rolling.

Call it an emergency fund. A down payment. Whatever.

Make sure you are contributing to the household, monetarily and labor.

BTW, if your mom is still doing your laundry, you seriously need to rethink considering yourself as adult.

Putting aside snarky comments about golden vaginas, who the hell wants to live with their parents? Seriously. I moved out at 18 and never looked back.

I can see a temporary arrangement in an emergency--say your house burns down or you just got divorced--but simply freeloading or doing this long term is rather immature.

I'll go one step further; I'll bet if I sat down and went over your budget, I'd find you could easily afford your own place. It may be kind of crappy, you may need a roommate and you will likely have to cut out all sorts of expenses you think are musts, like satellite TV, but which aren't.

@snoopy:

> I know many geeky type guys with upper middle class incomes who still struggle to get dates.

Too true.

I was fairly successful (ivy league degree, good income, owned my own house at 24, etc.), but was in an arid dating desert for most of 10 years...until I realized that I needed to take some of the ample self confidence that I had in the business world and somehow move it over to the dating world.

Once I did that, I had much much better success...and I realized that the income-and-prospects thing is fairly oversold.

Most women prefer a man who is confident with women (and uninspiring in his career) over the reverse.

Best, of course, is to be have confidence in both areas...but if you can have only one, confidence with women is more important in the dating world.

LW should find an older woman to shack-up with for a few years. Some broad in her 40s--they are trolling all over the love pages.

Oh, I wish I was young again--could have gotten through college without those black rings under my eyes.

Well said Joe. Well said.

I'm with Joe. When I needed to get out of my marital home, I moved in with my parents but was into my own place (dive as it was -- only place that would take cats & a kid that was available right away) in under a week! Living with one's parents....ug! And they're decent, "normal" people.

I love my parents but I sure do not want to live with them. Hubby and son and I did so when kiddo was around 18 months of age. We had to tear up our septic system and living in a house with no flushing was just not going to work. 11 days later, we all were much happier back in our own home.

I wouldn't want to live with my folks either, but if he's genuinely starting a business, and not just f*ing around, then it's a good idea. Aside from the time commitment, new businesses require money - $1200 that might go to rent can go to buying equipment or advertising.

But it could take a while to get a viable event photography business going. That's a field that a lot of photographers and videographers from other professions will sideline in. The local market may be crowded and I'd imagine that there's a lot of pressure on fees right now, if just due to the economy. It would probably be smart to look for a part time photography gig to make some money.

As for the girls, that's just the way that it is. Some won't mind, especially if it's evident that you're going somewhere. But it's going to be an issue.

"I have been dating some and get the feeling that girls aren't so keen that I live with my parents."

Lol, ya think?

Sorry, yes, it's harsh in this economy, but reality is that women generally will want a man who is capable of providing and supporting a family. Since you're starting a business, and haven't really 'proven yourself' yet, you're going to have to do a lot more 'selling' on your (currently alleged, even if you believe in yourself) *potential* as a provider, but you will of course get fewer women interested, and a poorer range to choose from. That's just life. But, you still have time.

I could never live with my parents, my dad and I would kill each other. When I started my business (at about the same age), I did live in my own (small) place - but even then, in many respects I lived 'like a poor person' for years, e.g. my furniture mostly consisted of various cardboard boxes, my clothes eventually were very old and full of holes, car dents went unrepaired etc. I was also more lucky in that I bought that place while still on salary from my previous job, just at the start of the housing bubble, and started my business during a booming economy. Times have changed. Not sure I'd want to start a business now, but if you can, it's worth it. Starting a business is tough and demanding even during a boom time - I found it impossible to juggle both relationships and the business, the latter was far too demanding, and so I had a number of relationships crash and burn ('you're always working!' etc). Now nearly ten years later, the business is 'small but stable' and I was lucky to find a wonderful wife recently.

I have to say that my experience of living with roommates was that, in terms of interference with your love life, it's not much of an improvement over living with your parents.

LW, here's a thought: if it's practical and doesn't cost too much, you might want to reconfigure your space into a separate apartment. At a minimum you would need a separate entrance and a bath. From there, if you have plumbing in your area, it wouldn't cost that much to put in a mini-kitchen, with a sink and space for a microwave and a hot plate. At least you can boil water and heat stuff up.

Also, this might make it practical for you to set up a small studio in your space. You could do some portrait and commercial work on the side while you're getting the business going. And it would demonstrate to the chicks that you're actually working.

whistleDick: If the business gets successful, you'll be getting all the pussy you need.

Snoopy: I wish that were true, but unless you're talking about extreme success I haven't found that to be the case. I know many geeky type guys with upper middle class incomes who still struggle to get dates.

I suspect they're not struggling to get dates per se. They're probably struggling to get dates with attractive non-geeky women. And, even then, if they have upper middle class incomes, I'm surprised they're struggling that much. They must be very unattractive (including, perhaps, not being tall...something that is a huge turn-off to women) or have extremely poor social/communication skills, or both.

My experience in the geek social scene is a lot of 20-something geek guys do have trouble fining someone. Part of it is that some of them are very serious (they wouldnt have those phds if they werent) and arent into the bar scene, some are awkward, some are focusing on their careers... but mostly the problem is their friends are mostly guys as are theie friends friends, so they have less opportunity to meet people casually.

But most find someone in their late 20s/early 30s. There's no one left for me to set my single gfs up with.

There's really nothing he can do. He's not going to have much money no matter what he does, and women his age are all about money and status. His best bet is probably to forget dating and just try to make money. He can date again when he can afford a girlfriend.

As for upper middle class geeks. Their basic problem is that they are totally unattractive. Their money isn't enough to compensate for their looks and personality. These guys don't get girls until the girls get into their settling down phase. Then they'll marry them to get a good stable provider.

To me it's a double edged sword. Yes it's difficult and expensive to maintain a household for one. I've been on my own for 12 years and then moved back after having relationship and health problems. The best way to handle things is simple.....Make your daily contribution to the household and take "ownership" of the position you're in and don't become co-dependent on your parents. You can still show the world that you're an adult while living at home. Of course, the biggest challenge is showing your parents that you're not a kid!! Anybody who can show that they're taking responsibility SHOULD in turn catch the eye of an ADULT woman. If you want to keep a relationship you'll still have to pull your own weight and be 100% responsible for yourself. In my opinion, photography should be an AVOCATION and not approached as a full time professional business until you're well established. I love the comments about "how can you work 80 hrs a week and have a relationship??" All I can say is you're lazy if you think 80 is too much. I used to work closer to 100 and still had a family and household to take care of. I would get 4 days a month to get my personal stuff done and catch up on sleep. I made about $50,000 a year for 6 years and I still didn't get the basic human respect. I'm much happier making half that because I was wasting money paying for things to be done that I didn't have time to do. Now I feel more complete and human and money is not a concern.

Travel to the country, tell me your shenanigans, and I tell what kind of person you are....;)

I do know one guy in his late thirties who lives at home with mama. He's dating the most stunning woman I have ever seen in person - she is literally jaw-droppingly beautiful. But he's also a very good looking man and lives at home because he's pouring all his money into the relatively new brewpub where he's the brewmaster.

Handsome with status can overcome living at home, at least in this case.

You could have the most brilliant, revolutionary, and promising business plan in the world and it's not going to change the fact that most women don't want to have to meet your parents on date #2, or bump into them on the way to the bathroom at 3am, or sneak out the back to avoid said scenarios. In other words, it may be the logistics, not the reasons, of your arrangement that poses the problem. Even if a woman doesn't consider living with your parents as a dealbreaker per say, it's still going to create complications if you want to bring her home for the night, or even invite her over for drinks. It is what it is; you just have to consider the tradeoff and decide whether it's worth it.

It is what it is; you just have to consider the tradeoff and decide whether it's worth it.

This is a good example of how the pressure to be attractive to women can be a liability for young men. Unfortunately women's 'provide for me' gene activates before young men are truly able to provide for them, and this motivates guys to make decisions that aren't in their best long term interest. I know plenty of men who'd settled for careers in their 20's that seemed safe and responsible in order to be eligible for girls, and they now regret it. But it's hard to make a young man understand that the hot little thing that they want to impress isn't going to be 25 forever. It doesn't make sense to throw your life away for the transient approval of a girl.

I think the guys that are having a hard time getting dates must not be attractive. Women do notice that kind of thing.

Also, as a very attractive older woman, I sure as hell don't want to support some younger guy. I can get all the sex I want from good looking young guys without having to spend a dime on them. I guess if you're not an attractive woman of any age, you can't afford to be as picky and may have to pay for a guy's attention.

A guy that lives with his parents is a big turnoff to me, because my experience was that they would want to spend all their time at my place (I have my own apartment), and then expect me to dote on them the way mom does.