"It's really damaging to be with somebody who isn't into you."

Oh, Gawd - yes! yes! yes!

I can't fathom why some woman hasn't already gnawed into his self-confidence. 60 seconds? Really?

I know next to nothing about what pleasures a woman, but seriously...are there women in this world that wouldn't object to a lover than only lasts 60 seconds? I can't believe that she's the first woman to complain to him about this.

Lasting only 60 seconds is a sign that he IS into you. I can last nearly an hour with a woman I don't give a shit about. Oh, and she really thinks that the large breasts are a problem? Not very likely.

Why are you still involved with him?

She's trading sex for companionship. Not knocking it, but if you are a man's casual playmate, you are not going to get the Platinum Card treatment us decent guys reserve for The Woman / The One We Love.

LW says he's not a Player, and I believe her... he sounds more like a Minute (or less!) Man!

Truth: A true friend would listen to your complaints about the rapid-fire nookie, and stop playing beat-the-clock.

I recommend you put on a chastity belt. Hang out with him, have fun, but keep your panties on. Maybe, just maybe, your FWB will decide a bit of extra effort is to His benefit!!

Killer sex like that...no wonder he's divorced.

First, I say send him a bill.

Second, everything Amy says is true: Where exactly are the "benefits" for you in this?

Your self-description more than hints that (true or not) you consider yourself too fat and ugly for any Decent man to want you, so instead you've settled for lying to yourself that this is something other than what is is: an abusive relationship.

Ahem.

The only good thing I see here is that this FWB status is relatively new - which means you should be able to put an end to it just as quickly as you started it, and move on as if it never happened.

Use the time you DON'T spend with him to improve your self esteem.

Oh and Big Boobs Are Awesome.

The problem is she is already attached to him and wants to be the GF, why else would she be sleeping with him if he isnt pleasuring her? She' doing it to please HIM. Because she's in love. He knows this (hence the warnings) and is taking advantage.

He's a cad and she needs to either accept her fat self and grow a self esteem, or lose the weight.

I wouldn't go as far as to call the relationship "abusive". But your obviously not getting anything out of this, so why do you keep banging him?

...a rat gnawing away at your self-confidence.

HAH!! Great line, Amy! And yeah, LW, if you're feeling like this "Part of me thinks he isn't attracted to me.", I think it's time to dial it back a little. Don't severe the relationship completely, but be a little less available for a while. See what happens. Be the butterfly. Let him grab a net. Maybe let him miss now and again. If he comes back, it might be worth it. If not, well, there ya go. Life's too short to date minutemen! Good luck to ya!

o.O

You're supposed to cut the red wire. And yeah, big boobs are awesome.

(You can tell I didn't have any stupendous insights to add to this one...)

"Be the butterfly. Let him grab a net. Maybe let him miss now and again."

This is total bullshit. I'm a man, but I'd bet a lot of money that women like to fuck too. You want to fuck? Then fuck. Why all the issues?

He doesn't make her happy first? Asshole. When younger, I used to come pretty quickly (and be ready again even quicker) but the solution to that was to manually and orally get my gf to orgasm first, then do my thing.

Perhaps get him diagnosed with depression and on to SSRIs. I've spoken with a few guys who have had the same experience as me - the desire is still there, but it slows you right down. Which is not a bad side effect as far as I'm concerned.

This is total bullshit. I'm a man, but I'd bet a lot of money that women like to fuck too. You want to fuck? Then fuck. Why all the issues?

Of course we like it! But read what she wrote - she wants MORE than what she's getting. If she stops being so available (and needy), maybe she'll get more of what she wants. And maybe not. She should be getting off with someone who wants her to get off with him, not someone who just wants to get himself off. C'mon, WD, you're better than that.

Whistledick, would you like to fuck 30 seconds and then have the girl stop midway and say, "I'm done, seeya"?

"Lasting only 60 seconds is a sign that he IS into you. I can last nearly an hour with a woman I don't give a shit about. Oh, and she really thinks that the large breasts are a problem? Not very likely."

I don't think she meant lasting 60 seconds. I took it as she meant orally pleasuring her, which is important to most women, and we need more than 60 seconds.

I've only been with one guy like this, and he was very well-endowed. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but I kind of theorized that he figured all women were so enamored with his huge phallus that he didn't need to spend any time orally pleasuring them. He'd literally go down on me for about a minute, then it was "his turn." Very frustrating! He could've been the best lover, but instead, he was one of the worst.

I wonder if this is a matter of education or attitude. It's possible that if this guy hasn't had a lot of experience, and his ex was the kind of woman who didn't like sex, or wouldn't tell him what she wanted or something like that, then he has no idea what he's doing and thinks that something is wrong with you.
Men watch porn, so it may be that it was his only real education in sex. And we all know how realistic movies in general and porn in particular are. It will not give him a good idea of what will actually make a woman happy. It's about giving the guy watching a good look at whatever he wants to see. Even non-porn love scenes seems to suggest that giving a woman a climax is more about ripping off her clothes and poling her as quickly as possible than about finesse or foreplay.

He may need to be taught, and if that's all it is, then you will do him and the rest of the women he sleeps with a service by teaching him. If, however, he simply unwilling to get you off, then you should tell him that you're equally unwilling to continue supplying his needs while having your own unmet.

Having sex with someone who doesn't ever get you off is worse than no sex at all.

LW, no matter how you feel about your looks, you can find someone who will find you attractive. I'm not sure what you're getting out of this.

Not sure how one gets from "doesn't want any kind of commitment," to "can't get it through his head that half the fun of lovemaking is making your lover feel good." The two notions don't appear to be connected, although LW's FWB seems to have managed it. He doesn't seem like much of a bargain in any case.

While I'm not sure I agree with NicoleK's conclusion that LW is actually in love with the guy, I agree that she's putting up with more than she needs to. Is sex so important to her that she's ready to live with this kind of treatment?

Or is this an example of the old joke: Sex is a lot like pizza -- even when it's lousy, it's still pretty good?

Bothered,

First of all, you are in a relationship with each other, a, "it's not a relationship", is where you just have sex every once and a while, and don't interact with each other until events randomly bring you together in the future for "just sex". You regularly socialize and have sex, that is a relationship. It is just one with no commitment of endurance or exclusivity.

He is constantly bringing up the, it's just FWB, because he doesn't want to get locked down into another committed relationship. While that may sound great to you, not having been in one for a while, he has just left one that was awful enough to end in divorce, and likely is relishing his freedom. It is a given in the Guy-verse that all women are constantly trying to lock you down as the engine in her plan to have kids and a house in Suburbia, which is a belief founded on substantial evidence. Even if you truly are not, enough women are that it is not an irrational fear. I suggest you roll your eyes and ignore it, like an annoying kid singing the Barney theme song.

You have more power than you think here. People are in a relationship for one of three reasons; they are infatuated with the other person, they have ulterior reasons, or it is the best they can do and the other person beats being alone. I am guessing his relationship with you is on the last type. I am hoping your view of him is the same, and you are not secretly infatuated with this guy, hoping you can make it into something more. You wont. If that is the reason your are staying, I suggest you cut your losses early and bail.

If you just want the sex and companionship and can do without commitment, you have to work on improving the sex. Basically, you are going to have to train him. First, you need to talk about it outside of the bedroom, when you are fully clothed and not touching each other. Expect him to be all surly about it, and avoid taking fight bait. Calmly say, you like sex, like sex with him, but you want it to last longer and expect him to work with you to extend the time devoted to it. He may not even realize how bad he really is. His ex may have hated sex and been happy to get it over with quickly and if he had little experience other than his marriage may not know better. You are going to have to demand new conditions for sex.

You need to insist on a bed date. You come over, eat, and then just get into bed naked and spend the whole night there, touching, holding, taking turns making the other person feel pleasure. Have sex be about more than intercourse. Extend all the pleasures.

Get him to slow down. Most guys learn how to fuck by watching porn, which is all fake. I am guessing he starts right in like he is the Olympics, humping away like a crazed puppy, and next thing you know, thar she blows. Just like he has seen in a zillion porn videos.

Instead, try a real slow start. After at least a half an hour of sexual interaction that does not include copulation, have him put it in and just lay there while you kiss and hug. Or start with you on top, cowgirl style, and just sit there only moving enough to keep him hard. Even after you get going, do it more slowly, with shorter more deliberate strokes that go deeper, and try and make it last. Save the pile driver action for glorious finish.

Get him to try noticing when he is approaching the point of no return and stopping. You have to be aware of this and stop moving too. When he has calmed down, start up again. The more you do this, the easier it becomes for him to stop each time, and the longer he will go between stops. His dick will get less sensitive if it is stimulated for a while, which is also you should do blow jobs and play with it during the foreplay. Explain to him that if he approaches orgasm and backs off a half a dozen times, he will have a much larger and better one when he does.

The other thing to try is Round Two. Most guys who are physically fit can produce more than one load in a single session. Give it a few minutes, cuddle, talk, kiss, do something subtle like put his dick in your hand and start squeezing it gently and stroking it with your fingertips. Keep at it for a while and likely it will spring back to life. Round Twos always last longer, and some guys can do many rounds. He may never have tried.

If he doesn't agree to try a different style that takes care of your needs as well as his, you are going to have to decide that you are so hard up for male attention and intimacy that you will put up with his self centered lovemaking (I hate to use that word to describe what he is doing with you.) or cut him off and go back to just friends. You deserve better than this unequal exchange.

Please, if you are secretly infatuated, admit it to yourself, and ask seriously, is this the best you can do, or is it just easy and you are lazy.

My guess is that he feels he doesn't have to pleasure her because they are not "in a relationship", so he shouldn't have to worry about her needs, and she feels nervous about asking for her sexual needs to be met, because expecting things of your partner/having needs suggests a "relationship". This thinking is, of course, totally ass backwards and ridiculous, but I bet this is why she mentions his obsession with establishing that they're "just fwb" in the same breath as mentioning that he ignores her in bed - because the two behaviors are connected. In any case, if this is his rationale, it's most likely a cover and in truth, he just wants to be selfish. Go ahead and ask him to slow it down, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's unable to understand/follow that directive.

LS Wrote: I've only been with one guy like this, and he was very well-endowed. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but I kind of theorized that he figured all women were so enamored with his huge phallus that he didn't need to spend any time orally pleasuring them.

I had the same experience, also with a well-endowed guy. But I didn't have to theorize, he flat-out told me that every woman he'd ever slept with reached the Big O in two minutes or less, and that I was damaged if I could not. Given the rest of his behaviors, I quickly learned that he tends to go after victims, not healthy-minded women. I'm guessing he flat-out lied or they faked it just to be done with his horrible (and rather boring) methods.

"He isn't giving me orgasms from intercourse, and his pleasuring of me is measured in seconds rather than minutes..."

Translation: He takes all the time he needs to reach orgasm via intercourse, but this doesn't get me off (as is the case for many women). When he then tries to pleasure me with oral sex or other means, he only twiddles around for 60 seconds before calling it a day...

Clearly this is not a case of a man with a pre-ejaculation problem, or a guy who is "really into you". Clearly this is a case of a man who is a bad lover. Why waste your time with a a bad lover when all he's supposed to be is a lover?

his pleasuring of me is measured in seconds rather than minutes, despite my telling him that this is a problem. . . . Oh, what to do...

Since you've told him this is a problem and he doesn't appear to care, here are your options:

1. continue having sex with him and continue to complain about it.

2. stop having sex with him.

When a woman can find numerous guys for a FWB relationship -- and at least some of those guys would be happy to treat her very well in bed -- it's amazing to me that she'd put up with this kind of stuff.

Oh, and she really thinks that the large breasts are a problem? Not very likely.

whistleDick, you're probably right that it's not very likely but it's certainly possible. I'm not one of those guys who goes ga-ga over huge (or even big) breasts.

The problem is she is already attached to him and wants to be the GF,

Nicole, she said she's in agreement with the boundaries of the relationship. Are you saying that, although she agrees with the boundaries, she also wishes they didn't exist? If so, I can see why she wouldn't say that to him but why do you think she wouldn't mention that in her letter to Amy?

…like buying a blender that doesn't blend, a Cuisinart that doesn't cuise.

I love that.

Ls says, "I've only been with one guy like this, and he was very well-endowed."

My God, it's you! I'm sorry. Let's be sure and stick to the pseudonyms. We wouldn't want the others finding out our little secret.

P.S. - How've you been?

"Old Guy"'s very long post needs to start with, "I never thought this would happen to me, but..."

"If she stops being so available (and needy), maybe she'll get more of what she wants. And maybe not."

If she tries that approach, my guess would be "not" as the outcome. The better alternative is clear communication, not passive-aggressive avoidance of an issue. Men don't read minds, and men are not obligated to spend a bunch of time deciphering your moods.

But LW should move on to another "benefit" provider. She can hang around this guy to chat, which she seems to enjoy. She should go find someone more to her preferences regarding sexual compatability and give up trying to change a grown man.

Repeat after me, LW: "I'm sorry, this Friends With Benefits thing isn't working out for me. I'm going to have to look for someone who's a whole lot better in bed."

LW, if you want to keep this man as a friend (and at this point, I'm not sure why you would), tell him you want to go back to just being friends without "benefits". Refuse to give any reason except that it's not working out for you.

Or you can try my husband's suggestion: "I hear and understand the boundaries of this relationship. Go piss up a rope."

Nicole, she said she's in agreement with the boundaries of the relationship. Are you saying that, although she agrees with the boundaries, she also wishes they didn't exist? If so, I can see why she wouldn't say that to him but why do you think she wouldn't mention that in her letter to Amy?

***

Because she's in denial. I've seen so many women who are like, "Of course I don't mind that all we do is fuck... and what? Relationship? Ha ha ha why would you think I want one of those?" And they tell all their friends how happy they are as fuck buddies/polyamorous secondaries/fwbs/whatever, meanwhile they act more and more doormatty.

If she wrote it to Amy she would have to admit to herself that she was settling.

The fact that she perceives herself as unattractive is telling. She thinks she can't do better, so she is agreeing with it.

But if it was really only about sex and not love she wouldn't mind ditching him if the sex was lousy.

Because she's in denial. If she wrote it to Amy she would have to admit to herself that she was settling.

Thanks Nicole. That's what I thought your take on it might be, and it sounds very plausible to me.

It does answer the question you posed earlier: why else would she be sleeping with him if he isn't pleasuring her?

But if it was really only about sex and not love she wouldn't mind ditching him if the sex was lousy.

The only other reason I can think of is that, although she could find (probably quite easily) another guy to have a FWB thing with, she might not want that kind of arrangement with a guy she doesn't know. She said that she's known this guy since they were eight. Still, I think you're probably right.

"a Cuisinart that doesn't cuise"

Wonderful verb you've invented, Amy! I plan to use it from now on. Thank you for the laugh.

This reminds me of a man I once dated, he felt if I had an orgasm before intercourse it was not fair to him. Many women do not orgasm during intercourse, others like me are much more likely to orgasm during intercourse if they have had an orgasm during foreplay. So this guy thought it was unfair that I got to have two orgasms. HAH! I told him that was no way to encourage sexual behavior to happen again.

If he really does not understand foreplay is the best time for a woman to orgasm you could try explaining it one more time, but I doubt it would help. I believe he is selfish and frankly if he will not attend to your needs after being told, he is being abusive.

It is time to tell him FWB is not working for you, not only is his droning mantra constantly reminding you this is just FWB annoying I would bet it is a turn off. Then his lick and a split routine is obviously not doing it for you. Tell him you have tried to tell him what you need and he has ignored it. It is time to keep your clothes on.

I would not count on being friends once you tell him no more benefits, I learned long ago if you break off a sexual relationship with a man, he is not inclined to stay your friend. Which is why I do not do friends with benefits anymore.

To the LW, have you tried simply asking more specifically in the direction of what you want? You don't have to be blunt, I mean don't say things like "It's always over so quickly" or "60 seconds doesn't do it for me" - that isn't going to help anything, it will just be harmful to all involved. But you could ask him for example, before he goes very far in the routine, if he can at least try use his tongue to make you come, or something like that. Eventually he'll get the message that you would actually like to come sometimes also. (Some women tend to just keep quiet and be unhappy about something but they're too shy or afraid to ever just open their mouths and ask more for what they want, I don't know if this describes the LW but it doesn't sound like she feels like she's terribly open about asking for what she wants.) I'm guessing he's aware of the issue but I'm guessing you just keep quiet and he takes this to mean that you're satisfied enough with how things are. Again though, don't insult the guy, be diplomatic about it. There are lots of things one could try. There are even special condoms that help a 'fast finisher' last longer (not that I would know anything about these things of course, ahem ;). I think frequent masturbation can help as well (contrary to common advice), and there are plenty other techniques one can learn if one wants to.

I think I've had an orgasm during intercourse (without getting in there and lending myself a helping hand) maybe twice, no matter how hard the guy tries. So take that out of the equation, odds are it's not him, it's you. The only issue here is that he's not getting you off, period. The only reason you keep screwing a guy who's lousy in bed is that you love him and you're doing it for him.

"Lasting only 60 seconds is a sign that he IS into you. I can last nearly an hour with a woman I don't give a shit about. Oh, and she really thinks that the large breasts are a problem? Not very likely."

Agreed. Also agree with NicoleK that perhaps she has more feelings for him than she admits to.

"Why waste your time with a a bad lover when all he's supposed to be is a lover?"

I presume she has her reasons, or she wouldn't have written in with her question on how to improve it.

"Repeat after me, LW: "I'm sorry, this Friends With Benefits thing isn't working out for me. I'm going to have to look for someone who's a whole lot better in bed."

@Dana Maybe this is just forum bravado from yourself, but if you really honestly say things like this to men in real life (even if totally true) then you are a horrible person with a rotten personality! Seriously (and I bet you're not used to having people call you out on such reprehensible behavior either). I can't imagine deliberately saying hurtful things like this to a woman no matter the situation (and I have had women who were bad in bed, I didn't feel the need to hurt their feelings), and least of all to someone who is a friend.

I would not count on being friends once you tell him no more benefits, I learned long ago if you break off a sexual relationship with a man, he is not inclined to stay your friend. Which is why I do not do friends with benefits anymore.

Worthita, you're probably right about men there, but what do you think about women in the opposite scenario? If a guy breaks off a sexual relationship with a woman, do you think she is likely, or not likely, to want to stay friends?

JD,

I think the answer to that is no as well. Sex brings up too many core emotions. There are a few former lovers I have stayed friends with, or I should say became friends with again after a period of time had passed.

I think if you want to stay friends with someone you should stay out of their pants.

I always wondered why young guys cut their hair so short. Girls need something to grab on to when they bet to a point where they can't verbalize.

And now here's this poor LW, who doesn't even get a chance to slap the mat and scream "STOP! TIME! ENOUGH!".

How fun is that? Sheesh. This guy needs a direct talking-to and she needs to deliver it. Either get busy on the muffin or get out of the game.

Thanks Worthita. That's my feeling as well.

My opinion is that when someone breaks off a sexual relationship, they don't usually have a problem remaining friends because they're the one who doesn't want sex anymore. It's the person who gets cut off who usually doesn't want to remain "just friends." If a couple has a FWB relationship and they mutually decide to quit sleeping together, or if a couple has regular relationship and they mutually decide to end it, I'd bet the likelihood is much higher that they can remain friends.

That's the case with me. I've only had one relationship end where we both agreed (after four years) that it wasn't working out. And, of all my ex-girlfriends, she's the one I'm good friends with. I will talk and email and, on occasion, get together with two other ex-girlfriends. I broke things off with them so it was only after a number of years had passed that they were able (or willing) to have a friendship, just as you noted has happened with you.

"Girls need something to grab on to when they get to a point where they can't verbalize."

One of the great lines in, of all shows, Roseanne: "Have you ever been so, excited, during sex that you pull out great hanks of his hair and you can't remember doing it?" -- Traci Lords. Wow, from an authority, yet!

But I have something blunt and obvious to say about LW and her FWB:

Lady, he's not excited about you. Once the urge goes away, he can't stay interested/excited in your presence. And the only ways to fix this hinge on appearance and scent. You might not be able to fix that for him. Maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't in favor of going elsewhere, but keep the principle in mind.

@Dana Maybe this is just forum bravado from yourself, but if you really honestly say things like this to men in real life (even if totally true) then you are a horrible person with a rotten personality!

Okay, I'll soften it: "I'm not happy with the sex we're having. I've tried to discuss it with you, in hopes that you'll want me to enjoy our sex, too, but you refuse to talk about it. So I'm afraid the "with benefits" part of our relationship is over."

I have been in the position of girlfriend, rather than FWB, with a sex life that did not satisfy me. I genuinely liked the guy, and tried to talk to him about what I needed. He told me that as far as he was concerned our sex life was great, that if there was a problem it was my problem, and we shouldn't talk about it because it would make it worse. It didn't take long after that for me to dump him.

In this Facebook era, we're in touch again. He clearly remembers me fondly, and is pretty flirty; it's obvious he doesn't know why, exactly, he got dumped thirty years ago. He's also divorced. I know exactly nothing about his marriage, but it's not inconceivable that she wasn't any happier than I. I don't know that it's a kindness to soft-peddle the fact that someone's being a selfish jerk in bed and let them spend a lifetime alone.

Yes, try to be nice about at first. But if a sex partner makes it clear they don't give a crap about whether you enjoy the sex, why is it so awful to let them know that makes them an unacceptable sex partner?

Once again, with feeling: DTMFA.