Really? I mean, REALLY? What the hell did you expect!
You screwed him while he was married and you convinced him to leave his wife. This means you know that he cheats and can be persuaded to dump his wife by some easy lay! What did you THINK was going to happen? This was not an out-of-the-blue thing. Did you really think YOUR vagina was the one with the magical leopard-spot-changing powers? Did you really think he would somehow, after five marriages and probably 40 years of being a screwing around toad, he would turn into a monogamous prince?

I cannot wrap my brain around this one. I really, really can't.

"Really, I'm not dumb. ... But, tell me: How bad is this?"

Bad. Worse than punctuating the first letter after the colon, in fact. (Style manuals saying this is required lie worse than boyfriends in this regard!)

> I'm not dumb. I'm a librarian with a master's.

These two sentences are orthogonal.

One is a statement of intelligence.

On is a statement of credentials.

My take: yes, she is that dumb.

...but she's got a nice crisp piece of paper proving ... something.

Sounds like she's getting exactly what she deserves. Congratulations!

Amy, you need to send this type of LW to Jerry Springer.

LW needs to catch a clue.

My mom is my stepdad's wife #4. They married in their late 50's, he's about to be 70 and things are going well. The spend time every christmas with all the other wives together (maybe only 2 others, I forget) as he has kids with at least 2 of the others. It's all quite friendly. But, I don't know that he ever cheated on the others and was single when they met. And, she never paid him money. Their finances are separate. And I'd say being a successful wife #4 means being a late in life wife. I don't know it's going to work for LW. I mean, the money! What was she thinking??

This has gone way past dumb to idiotic. Write off the money you're out so far and run!

Really, what's not to love about this guy? He's charming (the pants off women who are not his wife), he's generous (with your money), he shows you he loves you in little ways (like letting you pay for his plane tickets to come visit you).

You get what you pay for. I guess scumbags run about $14K + airfare.

I cannot believe you refinanced your house to pay of $14,000.00 of credit card debt. To get him out of his marriage? You really did the ex a favor, she does not have $7,000 worth of debt following her out of their divorce. She got rid of the goofy drunk, and still gets her rocks off with her ex.

You need to go to Al-Anon and learn not to be a doormat. Did you at least get him to sign a contract with you about repayment of the debt?

Why are you paying for his plane ticket? He should be paying for his own ticket and then he should be taking you out to dinner while he is in town.

So it has been 3 years since you loaned him the money and he has paid off about $9000.00 in principal and interest? Run, run like the wind and then write off the remaining money as experience.

he's in his 50s; his marriage-hopping has to stop

Why? Behavior doesn't stop just because of age; rather, it's more to do with the changing perspective/priorities that can come with more life experience and introspection (or adverse consequences of previous actions). So turning fifty doesn't bippity-boppity-boo a man into sticking with the woman he left Wife #5 for.

I'm interested in knowing what her marriage was like and what spurred her divorce. Because taking up with a known cheater and serial marrier six weeks after the official end of a two-decade long relationship, not to mention fucking paying to get the guy out of his current marriage, fairly screams "I have no identity of my own! I'll do anything, if only you'll define me!"

Amy, you must be a master of self-control to answer this one as politely as you did.

I never met a con man I didn't like. That goes for women as well.

Concentrate on getting your bread back, then take him for as much as possible before dumping him in front of a good divorce lawyer. A female divorce lawyer, and if you can make sure she's a vindictive female divorce lawyer.

Believe this from a reformed confidence man. That would be me, Mad Jack. You didn't have a chance against this guy. You're a librarian and a scholar. If I wanted to know something about the library, I'd go to you and have you teach me. This guy you've hooked up with is a professional confidence man. A charmer. He's spent a huge portion of his life learning to be a successful charm boy, and living off the results. It's what he does for a living. Buying into his convincing story does not make you dumb, it makes you the latest victim. That's just how it works. See?

And, by the way, he's not only screwing one or more of his ex-wives, he's likely got something else on the side and he's likely not using protection. Now you think about that for a minute and then you get your money back from him, even if it's payments and even if you have to employ a leg breaker to do it. While he's making payments, you convince yourself that you can't have what you want: Mr. Prince Charming completely and unselfishly in love with you.

Wow, he sounds like quite the catch! Well done!

I mean, a guy with a stable income who doesn't cheat on his multiple wives would be, like, soooooooooooo boring, omg right?!

I mean why be with Darcy when you could have Wickhan?! (To put it in librarian-speak)

Look on the bright side - the good news is, when he leaves you for someone else, you'll still get sex!

You need to stay, and give him as many chances as it takes. Love is forever—or at least it should be in your case.

"The more some choice costs you the more driven you'll be to defend it -- like when you've abruptly thrown 14K at the idea that you can change a man who thinks soul mates come in six-packs."

This reminds me of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy when Smiley says that the more you pay for a fake painting, the less inclined you are to doubt its authenticity.

I have news for you, honey: You *are* dumb. Maybe not intellectually, but regarding people and relationships, you're dumber than a bag of hair. And more than a little desperate, as well. The one thing you knew for certain about this guy is that he cheats on his wife (wives), and treats women like Kleenex. Yet you somehow thought he'd be different with you? I don't have a lot of sympathy.

Regarding him being in his fifties: My father was a philanderer of epic proportions, and certainly was still screwing around when my mother finally dumped him after 34 years. And while he never remarried, I have absolutely bullet-proof evidence that he was still f*cking everything he could get his hands on well into his seventies.

Go find a counselor, and try to figure out why you just loooooove a lying, cheating, drunken user -- and are desperate enough for "loooove" that you're willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of being one of his current vaginas-of-convenience.

Maybe I'm feeling overly generous, but sometimes I think we're too hard on these letter writers. She's not dumb, but she does have an ENORMOUS psychological blind spot, as did the most recent ex-wife, considering this guy's history.

She helped break up this guy's marriage, which isn't something to be proud of, but I bet if it hadn't been her it would have been someone else.

LW, I suggest you cut your losses now, unless you're OK with being with a man who will use you for your money, have sex with other women and dump you when the next new thing comes along.

Didn't we answer this letter just two weeks ago? There is no excuse for what LW has done and now she is reaping the reward. I agree with the other poster who said that his last ex is probably laughing her ass off... she got $7,000 for nothing and is no longer responsible for this loser AND she is still getting sexual favors from him. I believe they call this a "hat trick".

LW pull your head out and dump this guy. It should be easy as you don't live close to each other. Write-off the balance of the loan as a lesson learned and go on with your life. Like Dana said, find a counselor and figure out how you got yourself into this mess in the first place. Please avoid ALL men and dating until you can answer that question HONESTLY.

I am going to go against the herd here.

They say you can't buy happiness... She just did. And for way less than guys spend for a sports-car that doesn't get them any female companionship, much less sex.

It sounds to me like she has a great time when she is with him.

The problem is, she doesn't get approval of other women for this, who are judging her relationship based upon the amount and direction of the cash flow. There is a name for a woman who requires a net cash flow in her direction before she will enter into a relationship.

Quit worrying about what others think and do what makes you happy.

~ ~ ~

Women want to be liberated, empowered, and equal to a man... Here it is, and you can't take it. If the gender roles were reversed, there would a much different reaction to this.

"If the gender roles were reversed, there would a much different reaction to this." No. I lived this shit with a male friend of mine in the same mess, twice (two different friends). If they were earnestly paying them pack, getting their shit together and making an effort yes. This is exactly the shit that happens to nice guys who are actually door mats.

"But, tell me: How bad is this?" The fact that you paid out his last marriage no that's not really bad almost noble of you. The fact that you are THAT fucking stupid, very bad. He's going to bleed you till you got nothing else and move on like he did before. $14k on the credit card, unless he's pulling in a 6 fig salary is obscene.

"and shows me he loves me in little ways -- cards, phone calls, etc." Look up 419 scams. This is so classic for con artists it's cliche.

"There is a name for a woman who requires a net cash flow in her direction before she will enter into a relationship." House wife? Home maker?

That which you are referring to is a business transaction not a personal relationship.

"Did you really think YOUR vagina was the one with the magical leopard-spot-changing powers?"
That is the most awesome thing I have read in quite a while. Thanks.

"He's going to bleed you till you got nothing else and move on like he did before."

You have no data on which to base that. Lots of people have series of lovers/wives over a lifetime. The fact that he is still cavorting with his ex seems to indicate that he is on good terms with her, unlikely behavior if he had indeed, bleed her dry.

"$14k on the credit card, unless he's pulling in a 6 fig salary is obscene."

That is easy to do with no ill intent or obscenity. Most people have a few $K on their cards. A couple of concurrent problems could run up $10K more. A new furnace/AC is $5K+. Add a root canal or crown that can't wait, plus a dead transmission in a car needed to get to work, and there you are.

You and others here are amazingly judgmental of people you never met.

You and other responders also seem locked into gender roles of the past, which were discarded decades ago because they oppressed women. You can't free women from this set of roles and stereotypes and expect men to continue to play them out.

There is no way this is real. People can't be THIS stupid, can they?

Can they?

WOW. Amazing. It's letters like this that remind me why I am addicted to reading advice columns.

Well done, human race! Truth IS stranger than fiction :)

Great line: 'real love -- is never having to say, "Are you cheating on me with your ex-wife?" '
I just picture him answering, "er, which ones?"

or "naw I'm cheating on you with wife to be #7."

Old Guy, sure it's all too easy to run up $14K in credit card bills. But proper people don't turn to the f*ck-of-the-month to pay those off, regardless of who's the man and who's the woman. And people who have any sense of self-worth don't try to buy a committed relationship by paying off a serial cheater's debts, again, regardless of the arrangement of genders.

I was $20K in debt to the IRS in my early thirties. I insisted on paying it off before I married my husband, because I wasn't going to saddle him with it.

The way I read it, he is paying her back @ $250 a month, which at 6% interest would take 65 months. He is paying back his wife's half as well. I doubt very much he was the sole runner up of the card balance. I have seen few couples where that is the problem. It is usually a joint project. If his ex is still giving him a tumble, he must be a catch, or at least additively good in bed. Other wise, after he ran off with a woman from work, she'd be reaching for the shotgun if he showed up at the door.

A good friend of my wife was this very sweet pretty woman who was kind of a ditz, and managed to shop her way to a $7K credit card balance back in the late 70s. At the time you could buy a nice mid size sedan for under $6K, so it was a pile of money.

She finally met a guy who paid it off, had her move in with him, and made her put the rent she was no longer paying into paying him back at a much lower interest rate. He also cut up her credit cards and forced her to start using cash for everything, and introduced her to the weird practice of doing without when you couldn't afford it. He was old school. They are still married and have two kids who are out of college and successful.

JFTR, all the women thought it was just grand that he saved her.

My take. I bet for the first time in her life, or at least in 20 years she is having flaming romance and mad passionate sex. That is a rare and valuable thing. It is the best feeling on earth. It makes you write Joni Mitchell songs. That is the kind of thing you remember when you are 80 and the thought of the person brings a little smile. She should relish it while it lasts.

She is on Cloud 9, likely walking around with a goofy smile for no reason and having the time of her life. Her only problem is everyone else is giving her the type of advice that is in these comments. What those above fail to take into account is, if she dumps this guy, she is likely out the money and will lose the guy as well, and I bet she can't do better. She has to be at least 40, and the number of guys of any quality that are available to her is low and going down fast. Right now she is happy and he is paying her back. She should quit listening to all the naysayers and enjoy the ride. It is likely her last of this type.

I think "generous" does not refer to money in this situation.

Crazy as it seems, I'm madly in love.

When you're madly in love, you are crazy.

I have zero sympathy for women who sleep with married men.

A woman who sleeps with a married man who has 5 ex-wives and who allows her to pay down his debt so he can divorce wife #6 in order to be with her? Colossally, spectacularly stupid AND slutty.

"He's a pretty bad alcoholic." Usually an pretty good indication that he's offensively self centered. Assuming he's actually a useless drunk and she's not overstating it.

"She has to be at least 40, and the number of guys of any quality that are available to her is low and going down fast." Actually no late 30 early 40 is around the time when you have plenty of guys getting out of the first marriage so she's got a pretty target rich environment. Also as guys get stripped naked by the ex-wife they tend to value financial independence more than they did.

"They are still married and have two kids who are out of college and successful." If it's working you don't write to an advice column.

Amy...I love your answer. Calling someone a "stupid", "pathetic" or "dumb" is really not helpful. Anyone who lowers to this sort of name calling is pretty much just trying to feel like a superior being...which is pretty much full of shit.

I think you answer was understanding and kind while at the same time pointing out that the LW has gone wrong in reasoning and how. We all do stupid shit...we all get caught being completely irrational...maybe not like this LW...but in a million other ways. You're not a better person because you've never been in THIS kind of situation because I assure you - being human, you have indeed been caught with your head up your ass. It's just part of the human condition...

Susan: I have zero sympathy for women who sleep with married men.

Amen!

And, I have zero respect for a married man who cheats. Period. In fact, my rule also covers any man in a "committed" / monogamous relationship. If a man can't be happy with just one woman, BE A MAN, and be honest about it!

Sermon Over.

(Amy, can I pass the plate, now??)

@ TJIC, couldn't have said it better myself!

He must have a magic penis, to have you give him 14k! Does it shoot out sparkels instead of sperm or something?

"He's a pretty bad alcoholic."

That's ok. If he were good at it, he'd be drunk all the time.

Yes I have been dumb too. Oh you want a college education? Let me work overtime for two years to put you through school. Oh you don't have a truck? Here honey let me buy you one. You want a boat? Here's one. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes. I kept putting money in that slot machine just knowing it would pay off one day. The jackpot? A happy home and family. Well at least he's paying her back.

Well I'm sure the relationship has it's tender moments.

Maybe, he's the only guy she could ever catch that could give her wild screaming orgasms, then hold her and kiss her tenderly after.

Or, maybe between the Grey Goose frozen shots and the fifth of Jack Daniels he does a pretty good Sinatra rendition at the piano of "I've got you under my skin"

Some women, and I really mean some, as in "a very few", will do just about anything for that kind of love and attention.

With this one, just take a cold shower, go out alone to a coffee shop with a blank legal pad, and make an honest list in two columns, with pros and cons, please be sure to include "cheating still banging his ex and always will" and "will he ever bottom out and get sober, and still be fun"

Then on another page, write up a contract for him to sign about the debt and make him sign it and get it notarized.

Then on the next page, write him a sweet and touching good bye John letter.

Savor the memories, and move on ... you might try a studdly guy with tatoos and a Harley for your next advneture, or maybe a good looking accountant with aspirations to being a world class ballroom dancer.

Really, I'm not dumb.

Yes, you are. Your level of education and your native intelligence have nothing to do with the fact that you are, in fact, dumb. DTMFA.