Elephant in the room: Many women (wisely) marry "nice guys." Implication- their sexual attraction for them isn't that strong - they are fine with sex when conditions/mood is right, but not that interested when life isn't just so (most of the time). Of course, Mr. Nice is often oblivious to this. Throw in that studies show that male testosterone lowers with mating/cohabitating, and "nice" males decline in terms of appearance after marriage, Voila, Lackanookie.

Scheduled sex-date night? Sounds like just another CHORE. It's nice to be romanced without the pressure of having to put out every time.

We schedule it sometimes. It's not as romantic as spontaneous luvin', but planning it stops us from spending too long on the dishes or computer or whatever keeps us busy until we're too tired.

We absolutely schedule it. But not "officially." We schedule stay-at-home nights (often more than a week in advance). And it's implied that we won't just be watching Netflix (although we will probably do that, too, along with cooking together).

Otherwise, if we allowed them to, our social lives and hobbies would ensure one of us would be out of the house (or that we'd have visitors) every, single night and weekend day of the week.

'Many women (wisely) marry "nice guys."'

AKA "Alpha fux, beta bux."

Nice Guy Syndrome IMO is THE leading cause of sexless marriage and divorce.

There's a fine line Jan between "romancing (wine, dinner, massage)" and "I'm so relaxed I'm going to sleep now".

I've banged my head on a telephone pole a time or two for being "too nice".

Jan,

Do you ever romance him? Or for the flip side, do you have sex without the romance?

A good relationship is built on mutual benefit and mutual sacrifice. There are things that are important to my wife I would rather not do. But since they are important to her they are now important to me. She feels the same. Doing things only when you 'feel like it' leads to tragedy.

@"It's nice to be romanced without the pressure of having to put out every time"

Yes, it's nice to receive affection and not give it. However, that's not a recipe for a healthy, stable, mutually fulfilling relationship ... if you're in the habit of doing that, it's actually kind of selfish and alienating to your partner.

My marriage has gone through the "phase" Jan spoke of and it was tough. Luckily we are now in the phase Ben spoke of.

Looking back I think there was a kinda of "don't tell me what I have to do" battle going on that I was CLUELESS about. I mean I'm just a guy and it seems so simple you know?

My wife has mentioned that there was some resentment going on in her life (sex seemed so easy for me and really was "another thing" in her life).

Being totally unaware of what was actually going on (which I think had nothing to do w/sex and more to do w/her life, body, changes, etc.) we/I was lucky I did not follow through on some really stupid thoughts/actions.

Jan: It's nice to be romanced without the pressure of having to put out every time.

There's a good example of the general difference in attitude toward sex by the sexes. I don't think I've ever heard a man refer to having to "put out" when it comes to sex.

Bob,

We started off there. But that is a very unusual thing. Ever since the Greatest Generation (talk about pompous) we have raised people to do what they want when they want to. Our schools are constantly chanting 'Learn what you love. Find a job doing what you love.' Which ignores the fact we pay people to do things we don't want to do. When everyone wants to do something we charge them. (Supply and demand) Bringing that attitude along with the pop culture 'Love is all you need' viewpoint into a relationship is a recipe for disaster. For the most part men have 3x the libido of women. Reciprocally women have a much higher desire for romance. If everyone is just doing what they feel like the relationship falls apart.

On a separate note, I don't think this is an Alpha/Beta thing. Every long term relationship I've ever heard of goes through this. So unless you define an Alpha as never having a long term relationship they have to cope with this too. As Amy points out, it is just human nature.

"...I don't think this is an Alpha/Beta thing."

Ben,

LW says he's been through 3 marriages with the same pattern, not one long-term relationship that's hit a slow spot. I stand by my earlier comment.

"There's a fine line between 'romancing (wine, dinner, massage)' and 'I'm so relaxed I'm going to sleep now'. "

This. We've both had to learn to adjust our expectations. I've learned not to expect anything beyond cuddling after a romantic dinner and a glass of wine, because she will fall asleep. She had to learn that sex will not happen unless she sets aside time for it. She resisted this at first. I pointed out to her that we don't go out to fancy dinners spontaneously; we plan days in advance, make reservations, and spend time beforehand dressing and prepping. Then it made sense to her.

So we pick a day of the week, usually Sunday. We agree that by a certain time in the evening, all chore-doing will stop whether they are done to our satisfaction or not; computers and mystery novels will be put aside, and we will pick something on TV that we both want to watch. It's too easy sometimes for her to go watch a weepy movie and me to go watch a baseball game, and then we aren't even in the same room. Sometimes you need that, but you can't let it eat up all the time you have together. You have to be willing to make some time when your S.O. is your top priority, even if an hour or two a week is all you can fit into your schedule.

Don't get me wrong BKMale. The phrase "Alpha fux, beta bux" is a cliche because it is true. But there are a lot of reasons people can't hold a marriage together.

All I get out of the letter is:
1. A history of failed marriages (3).
2. A complaint about female libido.

Number 2 is so common it is also a cliche. Amy goes into the details. But the jokes below are enduring because they are true.

Scientists have found a new drug helpful in reducing female libido . . . it's called the wedding cake.

or

Wife: My husband is a sex maniac doctor. We are doing it all the time. I don't know how I'll keep up. Why, we must be doing it three times a week.
Husband: My wife is frigid doc. She never want to have sex. Why, we must be doing it only three times a week.

You have to be a feminist to think male and female libido are the same. Anyone without ideological blinders can see this obvious fact.

As for the failed marriages, most of the alphas I've known who decided to get married also had a terrible time with item number 2. They were so used to sex on demand as they cycled through women that the slowdown hits them like a ton of bricks. They had never experienced it and had no way to deal with it. Beyond the alpha/beta thing there are people who are just terrible at picking partners and have completely unrealistic concepts of what marriage is. Hollywood romances are completely fake. But for some people that is what they think a marriage is supposed to be about. It should be no shocker that those marriages rarely last.

@"You have to be a feminist to think male and female libido are the same. "

http://www.chrisharding.net/wetherobots/comics/2008-01-07-Misinformed.jpg

You're both right, the beta thing probably plays some role in how bad the problem gets and how fast, but I think the problem occurs with probably most long term relationships (except those where the women actually care to make some effort to keep their husband happy, which really just boils down to thinking about someone other than yourself). I know an alpha who got married and his 'solution' is to secretly get some on the side whenever things get too slow at home. Not a situation I care to be in, I'd rather divorce.

Honestly I think men should just start 'demanding' more from women, because that's all it boils down to, women don't want to put in any effort because they get coddled, men say 'aw it's ok', they're so afraid they'll be labelled pigs or whatever just for saying they want sex, or they try be 'nice' and accept the situation, or maybe try do extra dishes or crap like that because they're told that'll get them more sex (and it's a societal downward spiral, the more 'thirsty men' there are out there, the more desperate they are to take any scraps they can get). No it's not OK. If a woman doesn't put in much effort to give much intimacy and affection in a relationship, and she doesn't see it as a problem to even really try solve, kick her to the curb. Leave. Find someone who actually wants to put in some effort, find someone else who cares about you and thinks about you (as that's really all it boils down to - if you really love and care for the other person, it should be almost automatic to do loving things for them). If you can't find someone like that, don't marry in the first place .. thanks to modern divorce laws there's actually not much in it for men to get married these days anyway, except for that 'false promise' of regular sex, which seems to be frequently just an illusion.

By 'demand' I of course don't mean e.g. rape. I mean, if she consistently doesn't try to improve, leave.

Being unwilling to put in at least some reasonable effort to give your partner sexual intimacy should actually be considered something shameful in society - and when you think about it, it actually is shameful - it should be regarded in a similar light to domestic abuse or spousal neglect, i.e. as something society frowns on and scorns. It really is a form of spousal neglect; physical and emotional affection are ultimately wound together.

1. Women are like diesel engines...we need time to warm up.
2. Never ask a woman to have sex by asking her to have sex.
3. Ladies need to perform regular maintenance on their own engines (initiate sex with him and maintain a level of desire/interest in him)
4. We always make time for the things that matter to us. (hobbies, girls/guys night out, etc...).

Basically what I'm saying is that sex/desire is a two way street. 20+ years later and I still can't keep my hands off of him.

P.S. Every night can't be the 4th of July but remember that sparklers' are fun too.

Another joke to add to Ben's list:

Side effects include weight gain, depression and loss of sex drive. Ask your doctor if marriage is right for you.

Marry early and often.

Marry early and often.

I think it was a famous AI that once said of marriage, 'A strange game, the only winning move is not to play.'

@Perky "Ladies need to perform regular maintenance on their own engines (initiate sex with him and maintain a level of desire/interest in him)"

Some women have no interest in even trying to do that; those are the ones I'm referring to.

"Basically what I'm saying is that sex/desire is a two way street. 20+ years later and I still can't keep my hands off of him"

If this is true, then that's laudable, and probably not the kind of situation I was referring to. Some men don't even have that much in their marriage.