Eat Should And Die
Your response to "Torn" really missed the mark. She is the 35-year-old woman whose friends and family think her 43-year-old boyfriend is lazy and not good enough for her and will end up living off her. She has a full-time job with benefits, while he works part time and saves up when he wants to buy something. She says he supports her emotionally: "He...has my back to an unreasonable degree." Yet, you contend that his lack of ambition may lead her to resent him. My advice to her: "If the relationship works for both of you, enjoy it. Nurture it. Keep the outside influences outside. And for crying out loud, woman, pull up your big-girl Underoos and tell your friends and family to take a deep breath and say a prayer to Saint Eff You."
--Better Idea
Your advice -- that "Torn" should just flip the bird at all of her boyfriend's detractors -- is the perfect solution for any woman who has a number of smelly, unsightly friends and family members cluttering up her life. I offer a similar redo of decluttering queen Marie "KonMari" Kondo's advice that we should go through all our stuff and see what brings joy. Yawn. The AlkonMari method: "Strike a match and run."
But, wait, you say. He supports her emotionally. That, you insist, should be enough. Should be. And though it's reasonable to prefer that it would be, the late Albert Ellis, co-founder of cognitive-behavioral therapy, explained that "should" involves the irrational demand that the world manifest itself in an idealized way -- the way it SHOULD be. This keeps us from dealing with it as it is. For example, I should be writing this response to you in a villa in the south of France with servants, a helipad, and a moat. But here in the real world, unless I start moonlighting as a drug lord, I will continue writing from the cute shack in LA that I share with my dog and several million termites.
Likewise, in that magical land where children's dentists send glitter instead of a bill, the perfect husband could be a sweet man who splits his time between a low-stress part-time job and chillaxing on the couch with a doob. But women evolved to have emotional mechanisms pushing them to seek men who are willing and able "providers," and a man's ambition is a cue for that. Women can't just yell at their genes, "Hey, it's 2016, and I'm the VP of a successful startup!" As anthropologist Donald Symons explains, changing any "complex adaptation," like those driving mating psychology, takes "hundreds or thousands of generations." This is why -- as I explained to "Torn" -- research finds that women married to a Mr. Mom often end up resenting him, making those marriages more likely to end in divorce.
Should "Torn" stay or go? That actually isn't for you or me to say, because our values aren't her values and what works for us may not work for her. That's why I suggested she mull over the potential issues -- over time -- and make an informed decision about whether to go all in with her Laid-Back Larry. Yeah, I know -- love should "conquer all." And yes, in a perfect world, we could respond to utility company disconnect notices with a sweet note: "Please don't shut my lights off! XOXO!"








Totally agree that the original LW should figure out what her "future" should look like and make a decision.
Their reactions w/their friends/family then fall into bite-sized statements ("He has my back to an unreasonable degree and I am happy.")
At 35 and 43 they, in my elderly world, are adults that have already shaped their lives w/their decisions to create a specific lifestyle.
Their separate worlds either work for both of them or they do not. Figuring that out is a difficult part of being an "adult". It really sucks when "close enough" does not work.
(Very close friend of my Mother met his current wife (both in their '70's) and each family were concerned. Farmer/junk repairer meets society queen. Once they realized that the farmer had equal/greater financial resources they made sure the wedding cake had a "tractor" on it.)
If one of them were in their 20's I would suggest the same due to caution about making assumptions about "life" when your life experience is limited.
Bob in Texas at November 30, 2016 7:13 AM
My hubby has my back to an unreasonable degree, that's what spouses do. He does his share of the kid raisin' and house chores, too. He also out-earns me (I passed him just a hair, 4 weeks later he'd got a new job and hefty raise). Adults should be able to support themselves. What would he do if they break up? If she gets disabled or ill and can't work? Unless someone is raising kids (a significant and valuable contribution), they should be working to the point they *could* support themselves. IMO.
momof4 at November 30, 2016 8:13 AM
I think it would be extremely difficult to be with someone who has a completely different drive/work ethic.
Ahw at November 30, 2016 11:51 AM
Bob: LOL. My brother ran the sales department for a US car company in a rural Californaia town. His number one lesson with new salespeople was: never judge a customer by the overalls they were wearing.
His number one client was a multi-millionaire farmer who would walk into the dealership looking like he stepped out of a Dorothea Lange photo.
rosalind at November 30, 2016 12:43 PM
From the original:
"He has a part-time job he likes, makes enough to pay his bills in a (small) house he owns, and saves for things he wants."
I'm 46 and actually live this life, including the occasional doob - although granted, it was after a couple of decades spent slaving away at corporate jobs and saving money.
When I was her age I was working full-time, which I no longer did by the time I was her boyfriend's age because I didn't have to, being both debt-free and child-free. I'm certainly not mooching off anyone and live in my own house.
Maybe her relatives are still bound by Puritan ideas about work "building character." I think they should try being a member of the living dead in a "good office job" some time and see how that works out for them. I for one am certainly glad to be doing less of it.
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2016 4:46 PM
Co-signing Pirate Jo's comment. It sounds like her boyfriend is actually being financially responsible. I know a few folks who do this and call it "living small." There are dozens and dozens of personal finance blogs that advocate this type of lifestyle. It's very popular among people in their 40s and 50s who don't want to retire yet but don't want a demanding job, so they adjust their lifestyle DOWN to a part-time income.
If he's not mooching off her, has some interests/passions outside of sitting on the couch, she's attracted to him physically and emotionally and she's HAPPY with him when her family isn't around, she needs to buck up and tell her family she won't tolerate any smack-talk about her man.
I agree with Amy though that LW needs to dig deep and assess whether she, deep down, shares her families concerns and is trying to talk herself into being with the guy even though their differences bother her.
sofar at December 1, 2016 8:44 AM
Wonder if the subject should get a dog. It sounds like she has one that she can have sex with without alarming PETA.
Radwaste at December 1, 2016 4:04 PM
Realistically his "lifestyle" is so far out of whack w/the majority of working people of her parents' age that conflict is going to be normal.
Pirate Jo is a "success" but I'm not sure I would have understand that.
Working paycheck to paycheck, fear of losing your job, lay-offs, YAs being promoted over you and so on is your "normal".
A single person working PT at 40 is such an outlier that i"m not sure a typical working person can "get it".
Bob in Texas at December 2, 2016 5:53 AM
She makes the living and he makes the living worthwhile. The family and friends are the slimy worms in the shiny apple.
My husband had the dough, I had the sprinkles (his words). I am almost 80. He says he wouldn't trade me for four twenty year olds.
Happy is in the eye of the beholder. It is also very rare. He sounds like a keeper to me.
Elizabeth Falkner at December 2, 2016 12:21 PM
@Bob in Texas,
It's true. People will look at you funny.
I drive a vehicle that's 18 years old, although the mileage is relatively low. I take care of it and it just keeps running. When I have to buy another vehicle I won't spend more than $10K and I will pay cash. This is baffling to people who always have a car payment. One acquaintance of mine said, "You'll always have a car payment, so it doesn't make sense to pay it off."
I'm perfectly happy living in my modest 2BR townhouse, in a Midwestern city where you can pick up a nice one for less than $130K. I have good furniture but it's the same stuff I've had for nearly 20 years now. Yet I have friends approaching 50, whose kids have grown up and moved out, and at this point they feel the need to ... upsize their home and take out another 30-year mortgage. Oh, and refurnish the whole thing. "We can always sell it, because it will go up in value!" (And this is coming from someone who went through a foreclosure after the financial crisis.)
I don't have expensive taste in clothes, purses, shoes, electronic gadgets, or anything else. When I think about spending money on something, I ask myself whether it is worth the time I would have to spend sitting in a cubicle to earn it, and at that point I usually stick the money right back in my pocket. (Not always, but usually.) I use a credit card for gas and groceries, get my cashback bonus, and pay it off each month.
If other people are willing to live paycheck to paycheck and in constant fear of losing their jobs, that's their business - the banks will happily take their money. "Normal" seems somewhat insane to me, but I'm not out trying to win converts or give lectures to people - I'm just quietly minding my own business and living my own life.
Occasionally someone will ask me why I do contract work instead of finding a full-time job, and I say because full-time employees don't get to take 3-6 months off each year. Then they say I am "lucky." Well, whatever. People are just nuts, and I give zero fucks.
Pirate Jo at December 3, 2016 8:43 AM
Her woman-y genes will eventually get the best of her, and she'll ditch the loafer for a more accomplished man. So, in short, he gets a full-time job, or he's outta there, baby!
mpetrie98 at December 3, 2016 11:39 AM
Yet, you contend that his lack of ambition may lead her to resent him. My advice to her: "If the relationship works for both of you, enjoy it. Nurture it. Keep the outside influences outside."
It seems like the relationship does work for both of them. For now. I can see why Amy feels the woman may eventually resent him because many women do seem to place a lot of emphasis on male ambition. Of course, this doesn't mean that all women are like that. There are women who value other things in a man, like emotional support, over making a lot of money and the LW could be one of those women.
JD at December 3, 2016 1:02 PM
Leave a comment