James And The Giant Leech
I've been dating this girl for just over a month, and she never offers to pay for anything. I was okay with this in the beginning, as I saw it as a courtship thing. I guess I wonder whether this points to problems down the road with her not being a real partner, pulling her weight, etc. How do I politely broach this without blowing up the blooming relationship?
--Feeling Used
This woman lives paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately, it's your paycheck.
At this point, you're probably musing on the perfect birthday gift for her -- a sparkly little Hello Kitty crowbar she can use to pry open her wallet. However, mystifying as it is that she has never squeaked out the words "This one's on me!" consider that if there's one thing heterosexual men and women have in common these days, it's confusion over who exactly is supposed to pay on dates.
The problem driving the confusion is a sort of Godzilla vs. Mothra clash between age-old evolved emotions (still driving us today) and modern-day beliefs about male and female equality.
As I explain with some frequency (per big cross-cultural studies by evolutionary psychologist David Buss, among others), women evolved to seek male partners who show they are willing and able to invest in any children they might have. Whether the particular woman actually wants children is immaterial -- as in, of zero interest to her emotions.
Anthropologist John Marshall Townsend observes from his research and others' that women's emotions evolved to act as a sort of police force for a man's level of commitment -- making women feel bad when the investment isn't there. This leads women to either push a man to invest or ditch him and find a man who will.
Men coevolved to expect this, meaning that men evolved to try to appeal to the ladies by showing (or successfully faking) generosity, high status, and earning power. Many people mistakenly assume evolved adaptations like this will change with the times, as in, "Ye Olde Evolved Emotions, I'd like to introduce you to Gloria Steinem and the women's movement."
Unfortunately, evolution is not a lickety-split process -- especially when it comes to our psychological engine panel. In fact, anthropologist Donald Symons explains that "natural selection takes hundreds or thousands of generations" (generations being 20- to 30-year periods) "to fashion any complex cognitive adaptation." So women, even now -- even highly successful women who can comfortably pay for their own meals (and everyone else's in the restaurant) -- have their emotions pushing them to look for a man who shows generosity, as well as the ability to "provide."
This is reflected in the findings by sociologist Janet Lever and her colleagues from a survey of heterosexual men and women -- 17,067 "unmarried and non-cohabitating" heterosexuals, ages 18 to 65 -- on the extent to which they embrace or reject the traditional "man pays" dating behavior. (Surprisingly, millennials' responses were generally pretty close percentage-wise to those of older adults -- mostly within a few percentage points.)
A snapshot of the responses from women: Overall, 57 percent of women said yes to "I always offer to help pay even on the first date." But check out the mixed feelings: Many women (39 percent) wished men would reject their offer to pay. But many (40 percent of women) said they are bothered when men don't accept their money. Hello, confusing financial stew!
Men's responses were similarly contradictory. Overall, more than half the men -- 64 percent -- said that after the first few dates, the woman should help pay expenses, and nearly half (44 percent) said they would stop dating a woman who never offers to pay. Yet, men overwhelmingly -- that is, 76 percent of men -- feel guilty if they don't pay the bill on dates.
So, the reality is, like all of these conflicted men, some women just aren't sure where the lines are on whether to chip in and when. (Of course, some women are conveniently unsure.) As for this woman you're seeing, it is possible that she's waiting until you two are "exclusive" to start picking up the tab. Instead of assuming the worst, do two things: First, observe and reflect on her behavior and attitudes -- so far and as you get to know her -- and see whether they suggest an interest in partnership or princess-ship.
Second, simply ask: "Hey, we've been dating for a while, and it seems like we should start sharing the costs. Where do you stand on that?" See what she says and take it from there -- tempting as it is to opt for a passive-aggressive approach, like panhandling outside the restaurant where you're meeting her: "Hey, Amber. You're early!...Meet ya inside. Just trying to beg enough for the tip."
Can you please clarify something with regard to this claim:
"Overall, 57 percent of women said yes to "I always offer to help pay even on the first date." But check out the mixed feelings: Many women (39 percent) wished men would reject their offer to pay. But many (40 percent of women) said they are bothered when men don't accept their money. Hello, confusing financial stew!"
Are the 39% and 40% referred to in the latter part of the paragraph referring to 39% and 40% of the original 57%... or referring to 39% and 40% of the original 100% of women?
The numbers suggest that these have to be talking about percentages of percentages, but I just want to make sure.
Artemis at November 1, 2017 7:17 AM
I always thought Judith Martin's position on this was the least awkward: People should go back and forth on covering the expenses of the date. That way, they can plan events that work well with their own budgets. My husband made a lot more than I did, so when we were dating, if he chose an expensive restaurant, he would pay for it. He asked me to go to Italy with him at one point, and I was delighted, but I made it clear I couldn't pay a fair share of that trip. He was OK with that.
When I planned events, I did things like live music at local pubs and making him dinner at home.
It's a good way to prevent people from feeling like they're being used while avoiding the trap of having to keep track of every penny spent on dates.
MonicaP at November 1, 2017 8:11 AM
This is the approach for first dates that I found, through trial and error, worked for me:
On the first date, I expect to pay. My date may offer separate checks or go halfsies. I will thank her and politely decline. If she insists, that's a sure sign of friendzone. If she accepts my offer, then I know that she's trying to demonstrate that she doesn't intend to be a freeloader in the relationship, if there is one. Which is appreciated, and it makes me more likely to ask her out again. (Although not doing so isn't necessarily a dealbreaker.)
At some point after the first date, we can negotiate who pays for what. (Or after a few dates, she offers to cook dinner for me, which is what my wife did.) But on the first date, I've got the tab.
As for the LW? Maybe she's just socially awkward, or relatively new to dating rituals, or she's afraid to assert herself with you. But it's a yellow flag. Be careful.
Cousin Dave at November 1, 2017 8:25 AM
Law 40: Despise the Free Lunch
What is offered for free is dangerous— it usually involves either a trick or a hidden obligation. What has worth is worth paying for. By paying your own way you stay clear of gratitude, guilt, and deceit. It is also often wise to pay the full price— there is no cutting corners with excellence. Be lavish with your money and keep it circulating, for generosity is a sign and a magnet for power.
Snoopy at November 1, 2017 2:54 PM
What's missing in this debate is HER investment in HIM. When she is genuinely invested, in whatever manner that appeals to both of them, there is nothing wrong with him paying for dates. It's simply a way of showing appreciation for the things she is ALREADY doing for him.
When he splurges on her, neither asking nor receiving anything in return [google "Nice Guy Syndrome"!], he is essentially killing his value in her mind. He is no longer a potential mate, only a potential meal ticket. Women have a way of sh!t-testing men, to see how easy it is to weedle a free deal out of them. If a man won't stand up to a woman's plaintive whining, what'll he do when there's another man to contend with?
This is caveman logic.
Men need to learn to recognize these tests.
There should be no objection on her part in showing some kind of investment, however small it may be. If it doesn't occur to her to OFFER it, there is no reason he cannot ASK. If she balks, it's time for him to "NEXT" her.
jefe at November 1, 2017 6:20 PM
Once, before becoming exclusive, I was traveling with a colleague--we were not an item--and it came time for dinner. Our work had been kind of dicey and nice restaurants hadn't been frequent. I think I had paid for something earlier.
I reached for the check and she grabbed it, laughingly threatening physical violence. I really did believe she would have made a scene.
So, going halfsies for the trip would probably have had her paying and I didn't want a scene.
But now, reading Amy and others, perhaps she was making sure there was no obligation beyond being friends.
Richard Aubrey at November 2, 2017 11:59 AM
Recently a man I had met when out dancing, invited for me out to dinner - a first date. He asked me to choose so I opted for a casual sushi restaurant that I knew was low-key and inexpensive. I took my cue from him and we ordered lightly. When I went to the bathroom he asked for the check, paid and had signed it. As I sat down he looked up at me and told me in rather severe tones, “This time I will pay for the meal but in future I will expect you to pay for your half”. I was pretty staggered at such a First Date attitude especially since it was he who had invited me out to dinner. Not very conducive to a Second or Third Date! However I replied politely and lightly that maybe it need not always be a dinner out but maybe a walk at the beach and I could bring tea and my home-baked cake or bread. Or just go dancing!
My attitude is akin to Cousin Dave’s approach. In my last LTR somehow the question of who paid for what and when never arose. He took me out to dinner and I would cook for him at home. Going to the movies I would pay for both of us and then he would buy a light meal before or afterwards - or sometimes not at all. Because we cared for each other and wanted to continue the relationship, we just didn’t keep count. We had far better things to concentrate on . . .
BtW, I am a very “cheap” date as I do not eat any meat or drink alcohol or soda.
Via at November 3, 2017 7:46 PM
I would not date a man again, if he invited me out for dinner, then reprimanded me for not paying. Dude is telling you right off the bat that he is cheap.
stormy at November 6, 2017 7:48 AM
I'm with Dave... I always offered to pay my share, but the guys always insisted. If I wasn't into the guy I really insisted on paying my share... I didn't want any feeling of debt to a guy I wasn't into.
Via... I would have given him the cash to cover my share and left it at that. There would be no other dates. I would not want to owe him even half a light sushi meal.
NicoleK at November 7, 2017 7:35 AM
My cousin was dating a farmer, with a very low income. She was cooking for him most of the time. Finally, she told him she couldn't afford to keep feeding him. He needed to bring some groceries over or take her shopping.
The next morning, early, he showed up with a deer dressed and quartered. It took her all day to filet off the meat and freeze it.
notgonna at December 23, 2017 1:30 AM
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