The name of my pepper spray is Detective Special Snub Nose 38.

Hah. Love that.

Kudos to the student who was armed.

I am all for allowing people to carry as long as they are educated about gun safety.

I have my license to carry and so does my husband. We're teaching our daughter about gun safety too.

I've had only one occasion where I had to pull my gun. Our old house was being broke into. I was there w/ my infant daughter, recovering from a C-Section. I let the guy know I was armed and that I was calling the police. He kept coming in anyway.

Thankfully, there was a patrol unit right down the street, so they were able to get there before he got to the back bedroom where I was hiding w/ my daughter.

It turned out that the guy that had broken in was wanted for several parole violations. He had been convicted of rape, burglary, armed assault, and grand theft. (Why he was paroled is beyond me.)

Who knows what would have happened if the cops had been further away? I don't even like thinking about it. I'm just glad that I was armed and, if needed, able to defend myself and my daughter from that waste of life.

Also interesting to note that many of the areas with gun bans in place have significantly higher crime rates...

I have a giant canister of pepper spray that one of the cops gave us; I'm assuming it's pretty good stuff. I've also got a heavy little flashlight with teeth on either end, which is about as bright as most police officers' lights. (It's the "E2D Executive Defender.) It'll blind someone for a few seconds, and if they physically attack you the teeth will do some serious damage. I keep it in my purse and carry it when I'm out running.

Even more fun, we're doing a kitchen renovation right, and we now have a shotgun slot built into the kitchen island.

My husband bought me a glock .45 for Valentines day. Got himself some kind of Kimber. We still need to take the concealed carry class, though, so they stay at home in the safe for now.

Props to the student that was armed...warms the cockles of my heart.

"God created man and woman, Colonel Colt made them equal".

I've posted stuff before about the DC gun ban. Stops some ordinary, law-abiding citizens from having guns. The criminals? They're packing.

My friend Emmanuelle Richard's gun instructor suggested she post the bullseyes she'd gotten at the range on their garage door with the note: "Intruders will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."

For anyone using pepper spray, you have to be prepared to run after deploying it. You mustn't stand around gaping like an idiot until the guy gets over it; RUN!

If you have a gun, on the other hand, you don't necessarily have to run. It's optional.

For people here who own guns, I have a question: How do you resolve the problem of keeping people in your home from being hurt by your own weapons while still keep them functional for self defense?

If I had a gun, I'd want it ready to use in case of emergency, but when my friends come over with their children, I don't want to worry about one of them wandering into my bedroom and blowing his head off.

My college girlfriend had a pepper spray canister on her keychain. She never used it, but one of her roomates' boyfriends misidentified it one day and tried to light a cigarette with it. The results were hilarious.

Only pussies set to stun...(t minus 10 hours, if there are any fellow dorks around here!!!)

Anyway. I support responsible gunmanship. People should be allowed to own guns and in order to do so must take a gun safety course, at the owner's expense. They should also be kept under lock and key at all times when children are present.

For people here who own guns, I have a question: How do you resolve the problem of keeping people in your home from being hurt by your own weapons while still keep them functional for self defense?

My husband and I are childfree, so children aren't much of an issue. We keep both of our pistols in the bedroom. When guests come over with little ones or animals, we keep our bedroom door closed and locked. Our one bedroom apartment isn't very conducive to overnight guests, so that hasn't been a problem.

When I was growing up my Dad was very much into guns (still is). We were exposed to them very early...how to take care of them, the damage that they did, why we should never touch them without supervision. We were also never allowed to play with toy guns, not even water pistols. When I was little, if it looked like a gun, don't touch it without Daddy.

Hope it helps.

Monica it's really pretty easy. Few people are going to seek out your guns, pick them up, deactivate their safeties, and then shoot themselves. With children, it's a matter of keeping them out of site and out of reach.

If you're really concerned, there are quick-access lockboxes that you can get which spring open and present the firearm once you've entered a given key code.

MonicaP:

You don't need a gun until you need it badly.

The best way to store a pistol for personnel defense is in a small box that has a key pad code to open it, not a key. The box can be easily and quickly opened by someone who knows the code. (Secure the code as you would any other code, DON'T make it easy to guess.)

The 2 golden rules of firearm ownership are: 1) Treat every firearm as if it is loaded.
2) Do not point the firearm at anything you are not willing to shoot.

Hollowpoint rounds are probably the best to use for home defense. The bullet expands as it moves through the air more than an ordinary round. Because of this it is less likely to ricochet, go through walls (or people) and hit an innocent bystander. For these reasons (amongst others) hollowpoints are used by law enforcement.

Monica,

If you're going to own a gun, be prepared to be responsible for it. It's just common sense and rule number one of gun safety. You bring up a valid question/point.

My husband and I invested in a biometric safe for our guns. We also lock our bedroom door when company comes over.

The safe allows us easy access and only us! We keep the guns on one shelf and the ammo on another. We run drills to practice a self defense scenario. I can get my gun out and loaded in 45 seconds. DH can do it in under a minute.

Trigger locks are also a plus if you don't have a biometric safe/regular safe. With practice, they can be removed quickly. A child would have a very hard time removing them. We're looking into purchasing biometric trigger locks on top of the safe, but we haven't been able to find any.

Our daughter knows that if she sees a gun out, she is NOT to touch it. She is to get either Mommy or Daddy to get it. (Not that we leave them out.) She knows that if she sees a gun out at friends house, she's to get an adult immediately.

We've drilled this into her since she was old enough to understand. We've also taken her to the range and let her shoot. She's well aware of the destructive power of a gun. Educating children about gun safety is a MUST. Start young and repeat often. If you don't feel that your child would follow proper protocol around a gun, don't have one in the house. If you aren't comfortable around a gun, don't have one until you are comfortable.

I do have friends w/o kids who keep their guns within reach, as is their right. I feel 100% comfortable bringing my daughter into their home. She won't touch the guns and 99% of the time, they pick them up and put them up when company comes over.

You can go to NRA.org to learn more. They offer gun safety literature for kids and adults. I don't know if you have to join to access this or not.

There is a ton of information out on the net and most everywhere has a shooting range and organizations that teach gun safety.

The key to responsible gun ownership is education. I hope that answered your question. If not, I'll try again. :)

I love stories like this. I believe people should be taught responsible gun safety and gun ownership. If they then choose to be anti-gun, it's their choice.

However, in the midst of all the huzzahs and Second Amendment cheering, I have a few questions that the article did not make clear.

The student fired at the first attacker and he ran out the door. He then fired at the second attacker and he jumped out a window.

One attacker was found a few blocks away, dead (presumably) from a gunshot wound.

The other attacker is being sought (no word on whether he was injured).

How many shots were fired and where did the bullets that did not end up in an attacker go? Apartment buildings are not noted for having thick bullet-stopping walls.

The article said one of the hostages suffered several gunshot wounds in the ensuing shootout, but would survive.

Don't get me wrong. I support what this student did. The attackers were the ones who put everyone in danger - including any passersby or hostages wounded in the shootout.

What Truth said. That's as comprehensive as can be.

We're hunters. Pheasant, quail, deer, and varmint control. Fills the freezer and the kids understand the whole process and the respect it requires of both the gun and the animal. My ten-year-old is chomping at the bit to join us. She's the first one to take her male classmates to task for talking smack about guns. Playing with pop guns is fine for little kiddies, but when these boys start acting like fools she pins their ears back about how guns are not a joking matter. Predictably, these boys aren't exposed to guns directly, they have the romanticized B.S. Hollywood perspective. That's ignorance that will kill someone someday.

Unfortunately the government doesn't keep good gun statistics where guns prevented, theft,rape or murder, as in the case of the article and in Truths comment #1 .

And the anti gun lobby surely won't keep them.

The old saying: When they outlaw guns only outlaws/ criminals will have guns.

If the guy's gun control was better, the second criminal wouldn't have escaped.

MonicaP, we have the quick-access lockboxes with keypads. For larger guns (shotguns, etc.), you get a large gun safe. (Most of our friends who have gun safes have them in their bedrooms, or in their bedroom closets.) The small lockboxes are readily available at gun shops.

Good Guns Don't Make News

This is a comment about the same story, by Shannon Love at ChicagoBoyz. An excerpt:

No one cares if planes land safely or if building don’t burn down. Likewise, when an armed citizen prevents a major crime, it is only local news. When the prospect of encountering an armed citizen causes a criminal to not attempt a crime, it doesn’t make news anywhere.

The “gun control” debate boils down to arguments between people who understand this distortion of information about the utility of guns, and those who don’t.

Google "wichita massacre" to get a picture of what might have happened to these young people had one of them not had a gun and the guts to use it.

I hope the young lady makes a full recovery and I hope they catch the other scumbag soon. When/if they do, I'm sure we'll learn that he has a criminal record a mile long. And no doubt when they send him to the land of free TV, room and board, a kind-hearted (liberal) lawyer will come along and make the case that he's "an oppressed person of color blah blah blah" and should be let go.

Regarding guns as defense ... good idea but by all means make sure to get plenty of training from a qualified instructor.

Very interesting report on just this very issue of GUNS on 20/20 reported by Diane Sawyer about 2 weeks again.
Please check it out if you can. Its called " If I only had a gun"

Conan

Re: ..where did the bullets that did not end up in an attacker go?

It's going to depend on the cartridge and barrel length. For ammo in service pistol calibers (e.g. 9m - 45ACP), the penetration characteristics typically aren't dramatic - they'll often be caught by the second sheet of dry wall. But it's certainly a valid concern, and something that someone using a gun for SD in the home should investigate.

Frankly I often advise a shotgun for home defense. One of their advantages is that shot won't over-penetrate.

Ah thanks for reminding me Amy. Just signed me and the wife up for NRA safety course, required for getting FID, LTC, ect.

The one thing I'm really lost is why would anyone have an issue with an upstanding citizen owning a fire arm. Especially the poor loving progressives. Cops don't go into area of Bedfordsytvsent and Brownsville East NY so a gun is really the only way for citizens to defend themselves.

The far left see cops are the ultimate enemy of the people and in the pocket of the wealthy. Yet they are usually very much anti 2nd amendment.

That because once they get rid of the dun, they'll get rid of 'the wrong' cops

I think stories like this capture why most law abiding citizens own guns. There is a saying that "when seconds count the police are only minutes away". This young man took responsibility for his own safety along with the safety of his fellow party-goers and acted decisively.

Some questions were raised about how one can negotiate owning weapons, while still maintaining a safe environment in a home. There are several solutions for this, but they all begin and end with education. If guns are present then everyone who can come in contact should be educated on the potential dangers of them. For households with small children present, then I would suggest the small keypad locked safes to keep them out the children's hands.

There is also the question of where did the bullets go that missed their intended target. That is a great concern and one that can be addressed through proper training. There are 4 basic safety rules about guns.
1)Every gun is loaded and should be treated as such.
2)Never point a gun at anything you would not want destroyed.
3)Keep your finger off the trigger until you are aimed on your target
4)Know your target and what is beyond your target.

Number 4 deals with the issue of overpenetration. If your target is in front or behind someone and you cannot insure the shot, then you don't take it.

Training and education are important for every gun owner. However lack of training should not diminish this young man's accomplishment or bravery in this very frightening circumstance.

Let us hope the young lady recovers quickly.

Vlad,

I am firmly convinced that the left just doesn't give a rats ass about the victims rights. They only care about the rights of the criminal.

There is NO reason that a law abiding citizen shouldn't be able to own a firearm if they so choose.

You have to wonder how many fewer people would have died, if Virginia Tech had allowed people with CCW's to actually carry on campus.

I know this will sound a bit paranoid, but the with left's desire to move toward socialism, thier gun grab attempt makes sense. Unarmed people have a harder time fighting back.

>>The one thing I'm really lost is why would anyone have an issue with an upstanding citizen owning a fire arm.

Vlad,
Even as a Euroweenie living here, I can still appreciate the obvious vindication of many NRA arguments by that particular Atlanta story. No question.

But sometimes weenies have a basis for worrying about upstanding citizens. I saw a great friend of mine - an experienced hunter in upstate NY - simply clean forgetting his own rules about gun safety once when we were staying for a weekend (with our young sons).

He got an unexpected phone call that his beloved dog had been spotted running out towards the highway - and bolted from the room in an absolute panic, leaving his rifle and cartridges out and untended on the table. Ironically, he'd just been showing me the gun while gently teasing me about my unfounded fears about Americans and hunting!

No harm was done (though he was hideously embarrassed at his mistake) and we are still firm friends. But even upstanding gun-owning citizens can do dumb things when they panic.

"For people here who own guns, I have a question: How do you resolve the problem of keeping people in your home from being hurt by your own weapons while still keep them functional for self defense?"
I keep my handgun in a shoulder holster, I hang the holster on a hanger in the closet next to the bed, and have my bathrobe over the hanger. Easy access, secure location. Now, as to the one I keep in my car...
Oh, yes-an armed society is a polite society. H.L. Meinken

But even upstanding gun-owning citizens can do dumb things when they panic.

I keep my handgun in a shoulder holster, I hang the holster on a hanger in the closet next to the bed, and have my bathrobe over the hanger.

When we do get a pistol for the house I'm sticking a combination breach lock on it. Keeps the weapon safe but within easy access. That would be a high end quality combo. lock not that crap they sell at walmart. This way if some asshole gets to it before me it can't use the gun without cutting through the lock.

Anyone actually use these and are there any caveats I should know about?

> leaving his rifle and cartridges
> out and untended on the table.

Let me quibble with the scenario. Maybe, in terms of universe of safe outcomes, he did the right thing. As you describe it, you were there to watch over the weaponry, right?

Guns fuck people up, and I'm not an NRA nut (I'm not even an enthusiast). But they don't instantly morph into vampires when their owners turn their backs. Presumably when the dog had been safely tethered, he was going to come back and tend to events in the house: put away the guns, start a load of towels in the laundry, and take that boiling water off the stove (tea for the guests).

> I have it out, with the little
> switch in the ready-to-spray
> position

The concern is that anything you carry as a weapon is something an attacker can turn against you... And young males tend to move through intimate space with blinding speed and great authority. (He'll be prying your fingers open before you half realize he didn't just bump into you.) I don't suppose that there are pepper-spray classes... But a self-defense class with a karate instructor would probably be good for you, so he could run down some of the scenarios. If you're as concerned for your safety as you seem, that's a worthwhile investment, even if you don't want to follow through with a full course of martial arts.

>>Just because a reasonable person might occasionally do something stupid is not a reason to forbid it.

Who said anything about "forbidding" gun ownership, vlad?

I certainly didn't. I don't think it's likely here - or even possible.

You specifically asked why would anyone have an issue with an upstanding citizen owning a fire arm.

And it's the "issue" question I tried to answer, in my own mild, weenie fashion.

I've heard some reasonable anti-gun arguments that have kept me on the fence about getting one of my own.

There's the possibility that someone is going to steal your gun. I imagine this possibility is higher in high-crime neighborhoods. I'd hate to think of someone using my legally purchased gun to hurt someone else. Or my gun could end up being used to kill me if I miss my shot or panic at a poor moment. Also, not everyone is a responsible gun owner, and, as Jody pointed out, even careful people can have reckless moments. I'm not convinced the car analogy holds up, since while cars may kill people, they are not designed for that purpose. Guns have one purpose: to kill a living creature.

I believe anti-gun sentiment revolves around a sincere, even if misguided, attempt to protect people from themselves rather than some shady conspiracy to turn us all into socialists.

And it's the "issue" question I tried to answer, in my own mild, weenie fashion.

> leaving his rifle and cartridges
> out and untended on the table.

Crid says: Let me quibble with the scenario. Maybe, in terms of universe of safe outcomes, he did the right thing. As you describe it, you were there to watch over the weaponry, right?

That quibble would not be entirely daft, Crid - except it was Bob-the-hunter who was utterly mortified by his own lapse.

He knew, even better than I in fact, that a rule he ought to have observed just flew out the window in that moment.His embarrassment was quite awkward in a way - because he's a lovely guy & I felt awful for him!

Props — But he sounds like the kind of guy who, having mortified a guest in his home, would have been trying to be cleaner than Caesar's wife, or whatever the expression is. Your safety was never in doubt.

I hate it when assholes shoot each other, or bring reckless violence to each other in ways that they wouldn't have if the convenient destructiveness of firearms weren't at hand.

But I sincerely believe that a traditional American willingness to face problems (including human ones) without reliance on authorities is part of what gave us this miracle... And I concede the tradition is slenderer than many in the NRA would like to pretend.

Angel Monica, read what you wrote:

> anti-gun sentiment revolves around
> a sincere, even if misguided, attempt
> to protect people from themselves
> rather than some shady conspiracy to
> turn us all into socialists.

There's no difference between the two. NONE.

How pathetic is my state (Mass)????
You need a permit for pepper spray.
It took me 2 years to get my concealed carry permit. It's totally up to the discretion of the local police chief. We have a new chief now and I'm up for renewal next year. Who knows whether I'll get it again or not.
Initially I hated that I had to buy a safe for my guns. Now I'm glad I did. I have no worries about someone stealing my guns when I'm not home. I also sleep walk so I prefer the guns to be locked up. That's just how it has to be for me.
For in the home self defense nothing beats a shotgun and/or a revolver for reliability. As someone else noted hollow point ammo is "safer" but try explaining that to a jury if you ever find yourself in a jackpot situation. You could call you local police and ask what their issue ammo is. Then you'd be able to say you just used what the cops use since you assumed they'd use the safest ammo.
And I'd forget about hanging any macho posters about how you're going to shoot intruders. A jury is going to want to hear that you were terrified and fired only because you had to. But YMMV in a state other than mine.

Or my gun could end up being used to kill me if I miss my shot or panic at a poor moment.

Someone who's going to come at you when you have a gun on them is probably going to try to kill you either way.

I honestly don't know of any incidents of this happening. It's one of those scenarios you'll see brought up as an argument against gun ownership, but it's not an outcome that's very likely.

Guns have one purpose: to kill a living creature.

That's not always the case. For instance there are a lot of guns that are designed specifically for target shooting. You could kill someone with one, theoretically. But then you could kill someone with a stapler if you really wanted to.

For instance, these are just for target shooting - http://www.hermannsguns.com/images2/212a.jpg

You might be interested in this website - http://corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx

It's written by women and deals with a lot of the issues that women encounter when considering whether to buy and use a firearm.

>>For instance there are a lot of guns that are designed specifically for target shooting. You could kill someone with one, theoretically. But then you could kill someone with a stapler if you really wanted to.

Jack,
I think the point about the function argument is that you can't staple someone with a gun - to flip your own example around - not even theoretically.

> Do they also require criminals
> to apply for a permit

!

Do they also require criminals to apply for a permit

jon, "An armed society is a polite society" is Robert A. Heinlein, not whoever you cited.

I repeat myself - but a firearm is a tool. Used properly, it will NOT be used against you. Self-defense does NOT mean "just pull a gun". If you have one and I know it, I can beat you in your own house if you telegraph what you're doing.

A gun is not "magic" (you knew that), nor does it convey bigger sexual organs or status. It doesn't activate itself, meaning you will never make a good excuse for shooting the wrong person, or for negligently discharging a gun. Guns are also not going away no matter how many "bans" there are - "bans" being in quotes because there is always someone exempted from the ban.

If you are fearful, if you cannot take the trash out, then the use of deadly force will terrify you. If you are not fearful, but careless, you will still bet your life that not only the thug but the State will not steal your life when you pull a trigger.

Examine your thoughts. If you see the sentence, "I own a gun", and any emotional force manifests itself, you haven't thought too hard about this. I say that because I have heard a lot of people make up things about what they would do, from shoot themselves, to shooting others accidentally, to long tirades about what works in the house and yard. Maybe you've heard the "drag 'em into the house" nonsense.

There are schools. Start with Thunder Ranch and then pick a few key words and do some searches.
Packing.org can tell you what your state laws are. Never listen to hearsay about what the law in your state says. Look it up yourself, or you can be sorry indeed.

The late Jeff Cooper had a lot to say about defensive gun use. He takes the mystique away from propelling chunks of metal with combustible tree bark and puts it on the people who use guns, where it belongs.

Why?

Because the best way to tell a man's character is to give him power, and a gun does do that.

Vladdy, you're missing her point. Were a lot of robbings, maimings and (murderous) killings committed with legal sanction?

To Jody the Euroweenie. I so understand your friend leaving a rifle and cartridges out is so irresponsible. Only the other day my girl friend leaves out a knife as she was chopping some lettuce when she goes to do another quick task. Before I knew it the knife had lept into my hands and I was stabbing my girl friend in the back multiple times. Next I was running down the street randomly stabbing people....... Come on JODY give me a break! It is an inanimate object that is not going to jump up and kill you. So Jody next time you have a friend leave you alone tell them you are a little idiotic child. So they better turn off the stove, put away all sharp objects,ad make sure all pill bottles are child proof capped because you might just do something stupid.

Also Amy have you trained with your pepper spray. I mean have you had a test run? Try some scenarios using a bottle of silly string, Greg the big bad burglar, and AMY the angry redhead.

John: Did you miss the part about children in the house? His action is perfectly fine if there are only adults in the house, but kids that I'm assuming have not been around guns at all. Or do you really want to give the nanny state any more justification to tighten it's grip.

> To Jody the Euroweenie

That's just kinda harsh. These are instruments of deadly force, after all. They're not built for other purposes too (checking tire pressure, peeling potatoes)... They're about propulsion of metal pellets with deadly velocity.

In a family where such items aren't kept around the house, a sensible parent will be concerned about what their presence means to the safety of nearby children.

You can say you wish everyone was perfectly sophisticated about guns, but that fantasy doesn't apply in any other part of life, either.

>>Did you miss the part about children in the house?

Vlad,
Thanks. And they were indeed then fairly fresh off the boat young, city, British boys at that - which our friend knew very well.

Giant kudos to the guy, but from the story it sounds like he missed the first guy - in the same room - in an apartment.

That's the kind of marksmanship that makes me really hope he was using a small caliber with hollow points.

Raddy's Packing.org is offline! Google says:

---

USACARRY.com replaces the defunct Packing.org
Since Packing.Org is no longer in existence I have come across another site that is similar.

---

But that site's gone too!

CONSPIRACY! Commies! Obamanoids!

"deactivate their safeties, and then shoot themselves. With children, it's a matter of keeping them out of site and out of reach."

First, I am pro-gun. I am a texan after all. But, safeties can accidently be left off, or kids can get them off quickly. And thee is no out of site or out of reach with kids. Really, with more than 30 seconds, there's no locked door either.

The basic gun rules have been posted here. I love the biometric lock idea. Seems a happy midway between locked up and useless, and dangerous to random others.

Ok I did missed the children part. But so a question is Judy are you children stupid? Okay if your kids are really young and toddlers do grab things without thinking like boiling pots of water. But if your kids are older and they go around grabbing and playing with things like knives, lighters, unloaded oily rifles then you need to teach them to be safety conscious and possibly give them a thinking smack. Have you taught your children to go get and adult if they find a gun? That weapons are not toys. Not to play with matches, etc ,etc

Besides the fact the gun was likely not loaded - are your children capable of loading the weapon and pointing it around. Okay Okay I will admit your should treat all guns like their loaded that is a healthy view point. But that mentality can go overboard to ooh and ahhing at every little creak sound and crack in a sidewalk. I honestly thing Judy over reacted and if she was really worried here is an idea! How about moving the gun to a safe place for your friend. Go find a closet put the gun in the corner and go put the cartridges into a separate drawer when you friend comes back tell where his stuff is.

Also, Judy do you turn of the car and take out the keys even if you are stepping out for 10 seconds. Do you put your knives back into a knife sheath or block every time you go check on the pot to see if it is boiled. How about turning off the tea kettle if you leave the room. Do you close all doors and gates ALL the time! I bet you have done those things at one time or another and no body likely died. Calm down... yes guns are dangerous but so are buckets and plastic bags.

What a great story! Another win for the good guys!!!

I grew up with guns in the house, and we (three girls) never touched them. I remember from the time I was old enough to talk, my Pops pulled the guns out (unloaded) showed them to us, let us touch them (ohhh....ahhhh) then put them back in their cases.

He said if we ever wanted to see them, all we had to do was ask...and he would drop what he was doing and show us. But under NO circumstances were we allowed to take them down, or play with them alone.

We never touched them. Ever.

If a kid is curious, they are going to go snooping around. Pops took the allure out of them and when we were old enough, he took us shooting a couple of times.

I don’t own a gun now, I am thinking about it - but haven’t decided. I won't go buy one until I have had lessons and I haven’t had the time, yet.

In the meantime...I have a 40lbs cattle dog (all muscle ...but cute as a damn button I tell ya) at the ready for any intruder. I can't take Mishka with me everywhere, so pepper spray is on my short list for away from home travels.

I still feel that I am not getting my point across. So here I will try to explain my self. First off she called herself Euroweenie first and I was too lazy to look for her last name. Second....

When I was reading her post the first time I got the sense of an underlying mentality and attitude that stuck in my craw. That is guns and weapons are SO dangerous and deadly that they are too dangerous to be even made, owned and to GOD forbid even think about. Guns are given such menance that forgetting to put a unloaded gun away in your own house is akin to pointing the gun at a person and laughing crazily. That anybody who owns a gun must be crazy or want to kill people. That little Johnny heck Susie too should not play cops and robbers with his friend because he might just go kill someone when he is an adult. Now maybe Judy does not have that mentality/attitude. But reading her post it I got that theme.

But that mentaility and attitude towards guns is one aspect tha we have to fight against in order to keep our right to use and own guns. It brings up that old saying slash bumber sticker - guns don't kill people, people kill people". We have to change these beliefs that guns are evil and horrible. This UNCOMMON SENSE about weapons. That belief is deadly. Imagine how the Virginia Tech massacres would have gone? Imagine if the school did not suffer from that idea that having a gun (used by a sane responsible adult) on campus is akin to child molestation. Those 32 people killed could have been just Cho Seung-Hui himself. Change the idea that a gun kills, to that it can save lives.

That "Uncommon sense" and attitude is the one that starts us on the road to hell paved with good intentions. That a Midol owned by a PMS suffering teen girl will lead to her taking Oxycotin pills with Vodka for lunch to mainlining heroin for dinner. That allowing gays to Marry will soon mean people will start having all out gay orgies on the subway to a virgin sacrfices as a chaser in the evening. That teaching evolution will lead to children becoming unemotional facist athiests. That building a nuclear power station will cause a nuclear exlposion and or mutants to be born. To..... hell you get the point.

That is what Amy's place is about pointing out those stupid beliefs some people have that make the rest of our lives more difficult. Smoking a joint will not make you in a dope fiend. That giving JOE the right to marry JAKE will not cause the world to end. That to teach people to think and use common sense not the uncommon-sense. That yes my kid can go around the block on his bike and he will be fine. No he will likely not get kidnapped. That a gun left on a table will not go off and kill your child. ANd if you are worried about that ...... DO SOMETHING SMART FOR FUCKS SAKE. Put the gun in a safe place. teach your kid to not to talk to strangers, learn to not buy on credit, if your driving do not have that extra beer, if you do not want or can not support a child use birth control or get an abortion if you are too late...

SO GIVE ME A BREAK!
and I hope I am understood!

Damn it JODY not JUDY. Sorry about that!

"..... hell you get the point."

a slippery-slope?

> I was too lazy to look for
> her last name.

Does that help? Even when you spell it the right way, with two esses, it's indisputably ontinental.

"I love the biometric lock idea."

Right. That way, when you, yourself pick up your pistol and it doesn't work because your grip is different, there's lotion or a hair of your husband's on your hand or the battery is dead, you can beat someone with it. You can leave it out where the kids can get to it because the software will always know they're not you - even as you share DNA traits. Right?

Nonsense.

I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but objects or devices cannot be responsible for you. You have to do that yourself.

If the police won't use it, neither should you. They can call for backup. You can't.

-----

And, Amy: Mr. Paulson is right. Do the Silly String exercise. Dang, everybody at least think about it.

You won't magically do the right thing in any emergency unless you've practiced for it.

Crid,

Not Ontinental but Ornish, shoorly.

John: I agree with everything you said completely. However the fault here is mine as I asked for a justification as to why anyone would care that I have a gun or in fact an arsenal. She gave a legit real scenario where the friend having a gun and history leading up to the incident did pose a risk. As far as Jody teaching her kids about guns, not in England. The only place you see guns there is museum (no touching) in the hand of the military (not even cops, bobbies carry) and the crazy IRA extremist trying to kill people. These would all foster a desire to touch and feel something socially forbidden.

You can leave it out where the kids can get to it because the software will always know they're not you - even as you share DNA traits. Right?

"You can leave it out where the kids can get to it because the software will always know they're not you - even as you share DNA traits. Right?

Nonsense.

I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but objects or devices cannot be responsible for you. You have to do that yourself"

You irritate me. Where have I said it would do my job for me? I have a concealed carry liscense. I shoot damn well. I hope never to have to, and would rather have no gun with kids than one available to them. Thanks for being snarky because I was intrigued with one option that might help. That's helpful.

>>When I was reading her post the first time I got the sense of an underlying mentality and attitude that stuck in my craw. That is guns and weapons are SO dangerous and deadly that they are too dangerous to be even made, owned and to GOD forbid even think about.

So let's summarize John Paulson;

You hastily diagnosed my harmful mentality here using your gut instinct and angry, hair-trigger generalizations...you then let rip in my direction with both barrels...and now you admit you screwed up a basic fact about my identity...

And I'm meant to feel confident you'd be cool in charge of a gun?

(How's that for liberal provocation, buddy:))

I hope never to have to, and would rather have no gun with kids than one available to them.

If your whole purpose in life is to keep your kids as far away from guns as possible then move to England. Other wise keep the guns safe (locked) and the kids educated (not coddled).

The main reason cops don't use the biometric built in trigger lock is that they are still rather unreliable for the reasons Rad listed and others. If you cut you finger (there is only one finger that can comfortably fit on the sensor) the gun will not fire. Not good in a shoot out.

Ya Jody you have me there a bit. And as to the JUDY/JODY mix up. I am sorry. I do tend to let my mouth go before I let my head do some thinking. I do suffer from foot-in-mouth-itis at times. But my feeling still stand overall about the silly attitude about guns and being too dangerous.

Hell now I am asking myself now should I be trusted with a firearm. That small little voice is saying "Me a gun - God forbid.... NO"

Well till that day that I get one (if I am allowed- legally, psychologically, and economically) Where I am now does not permit any firearms.... God I hope Kim Jong-il is not feeling testy today. Then I would need a gun.

Still Jody a gun is neutral not evil or good. It is only as dangerous as you make it.

PS. Those of you talking about theft and child safety thought about (idiot/hormonal) TEEN safety. I have memories of my brother getting into my dads locked gun cabinet easily.

(I know I'm late to the party)
Biometric locks-

We invested in the top of the line system. Our locks have a key pad so we can access the safe if the fingerprint scanner is out of commission or our finger is out of commission. If you enter the wrong code twice, it does a lock out, and has to be reset.

We have drills using both methods of entry. Practice makes perfect in this case.

The battery is some sort of long life one, but we do check it every time we change our smoke detector batteries. (Every six months) We've had the safe for five years now and haven't needed to replace the battery.

For what we paid for the safe, one could buy a slightly used car, or even a new car if you can find one on sale. It was worth it to us and was our first major purchase as a couple.:)

We take gun safety very seriously. We consider our gun ownership akin to having kids. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't have it.

Again, there is no 100% effective way. That's why you teach your children early and often. Drill it into their little brains!! If I thought for one minute my kid couldn't get it, the guns would be out of the house and we'd find another means of protection.

Yes, kids can pop a door lock w/ a quickness, but I've yet to see one that can pop a pad lock, which is what we use on our bedroom door when company comes over. It doesn't look very pretty, but it serves its purpose.

Of course, I'm a bit paranoid about the door being kicked in, so I've reinforced the frame too.

The master bedroom has been made as safe as possible w/o making it into a safe room. It would take a determined criminal to break in. It also buys me time to get my gun out and loaded.

All points of entry in the condo are reinforced, so I can hear the asshole coming, giving me enough time to get to the back bedroom. (If I'm not already there.)

I know some people think I'm taking it to the extreme, but all it takes is ONE time in a bad situation to make a person this way and I would rather be safe than sorry.

The important thing about Gun Safety is choosing a method that you and your family are comfortable with. If you're not comfortable or have any feelings of reserve, find another method, or don't have guns.

"Thanks for being snarky because I was intrigued with one option that might help. That's helpful."

Sorry. I wasn't aware that speculation was so valuable in selecting a firearm... oops, more snark. Watch and see what police use. Wishful thinking isn't going to work.

I've been watching this issue for years, and the superstitions are still there, even among carry permit holders, who merely ID themselves, pass a test and go shoot once to show they can. Various government agencies have tried to force the issue, and even with the cry of "Safety! Safety!", they cannot set aside the laws of physics - or the desires of police, who recognize at once who the guinea pig is going to be. Police are shot with their own weapons.

The Colt 1911 and Glock are quite simply the choice of schools for this, everywhere. Gunsite, Knob Creek, Thunder Ranch, Lethal Force Institute will all show you why; they'll teach you to use something else if you insist, but then you get left behind by those guys.
Notably, the Glock has no seperate "safe" device distant from the trigger. Neither has any feature that prevents use, simply because a device that prevents a gun's use will prevent you from using it.

S&W has guns with key locks right on them on some models. That might help during a short time window where the owner isn't home and the key isn't somewhere known, but it doesn't enhance its usefulness at all.

Here's a stupid-sounding but useful test: take a deep breath, and while holding it, get your defensive measure - shotgun, pepper spray, pistol, sword - and apply it to the first place you would see the thug after your first notice, as if the door is broken. This will give you some idea of how well-thought-out your defensive measures are. How much time elapses at each step of a crime against you, really?

Another useful test, which might actually be fun, is to find a couple of Airsoft pistols and see just how fast you can go, how carefully you can shoot, in your own home. This won't match the real deal, with flashing and banging, powder oders and splashing blood, but it could encourage some thought about team tactics among family members.

"Truth" has thought about defense already. More people should, because Warren v. DC has flatly and finally determined that no one is required to help you.

Don't miss what I said earlier. If I know what you have and you telegraph how you're going to use it, I can beat you in your own home.

I bet you have kitchen knives where I can use them. Remember the Tueller Drill?

I'm not a thug, and I'm not threatening anyone, but somebody out there knows what I do and thinks crime is a rational field of employment.

Here's a piece about biometric safes. It's from March 2009.

Keep your hands clean and dry (no lotion). Wait for the safe to reset if it doesn't recognize you the first time.

One thousand one, one thousand two one thousand...

Another useful test, which might actually be fun, is to find a couple of Airsoft pistols and see just how fast you can go, how carefully you can shoot, in your own home. This won't match the real deal, with flashing and banging, powder oders and splashing blood, but it could encourage some thought about team tactics among family members.

Actually tried this. I have the person cold if they goes for the bedroom or any where up stairs. Hall is well and the bedroom is dark. They either pop their head above the stairs or I get a good solid full frontal on the other stairs. If they are heading up stair they are after us not stuff, just a slight hesitation to check for a dark blue uniform then pop.

The only thing I give two shits about is the wife and the cats. You want the TV and Games systems go ahead. My home owners would rather replace them then pay the indigent family. As of course all robber in Mass. are just family bread winners just trying to get by.

> Not Ontinental but Ornish, shoorly.

What, you never had a drink and dropped a letter? I meant "continental", and you fucking well knew that! How dare you! How dare you mock me in this dead-on, amusing fashion!

All I know about "Cornish" is that their hens are the sort of thing a loving midwestern mother serves to her children to make them understand there's more to fowl than the Colonel.

Posted by: SEB at May 8, 2009 5:35 AM

Typos, typos, typos... Time to install the old software.

You think you're screwed - in Australia not only cant we get guns we cant get pepper spray. And yes the case you cite is a pretty good reason to let people carry guns. I often wonder how many people would have been saved at Port Arthur or Columbine if one of the bystanders had a gun.