I wish people understood how wiggly the phrase "cannot afford" is.

Very, very wiggly.

Yet again, covered here.

I like your idea, Radwaste.

Sadly Radwaste I think you're wasting your time. The outright stubborness of folks on the left (or whoever buys into gov healthcare) to believe anything other than the dem/pro healthcare plan(s) talking points boggles the mind. All corporations are evil, government has a mandate to work for the people and thus will be better! All history to the contrary conveniently tossed aside as right wing nuttery spouted out by lemmings bought off by the evil insurance companies.

/sarcasm
There is no "jail" in these bills you know. We have laws against debtors prisons (well except child support based debtors prison...). Stop with the death panel rhetoric! Extrapolate? Stop reading tea leaves! Its not in the bill! It won't happen!
/sarcasm

At this point I don't know how anyone can honestly think we can afford this, let alone if its a good idea. Reforms would be great but locking it down to Fed Care and Fed approved Private plans is not going to cater to the best interests of citizens anymore than it does now.

"At this point I don't know how anyone can honestly think we can afford this, let alone if its a good idea."

Well, Sio, maybe the majority of people is so stupid, it actually believes one or both of the above. If that's the case, then it has brought this mess upon itself, and deserves the disaster it gets. Maybe people are so uninformed about past socialist disasters, they don't know any better. Or maybe, in the face of the knowledge, people cling to untruths anyway, simply because they'd LIKE them to be true. It brings up some uncomfortable-to-accept ideas about humanity in general, but there it is.

Are people going to be worth a damn, or are they going to succumb to a bunch of bureaucrats dictating the terms of their lives to them, and choose to spend their lives fat, dumb, and happy? There is no one to spell out the terms of our existence to us but we, ourselves.

"we" should be "us" - schoolmarm option temporarily kicked in, but now disabled.

Also, I should amend "fat, dumb, and happy" to "fat, dumb, happy, and enslaved."

Thanks, Pirate Jo. Put your own stamp on it if you want and get this out there.

In shouting matches, the shouting becomes the focus, and people lying about what health care means or what bills do get away with it.