Don't be bitter.

We need four parties:

Republicans: Bible-thumpers/Limited-government
Democrats: Secularists/Big-government
Party #3: Secularists/Limited-government
Party #4: Bible-thumpers/Big-government

Then we encourage those in Party #4 to move somewhere far, far away.

the talk-show/tea-party right, which -- if it has its way -- will convert the GOP into an almost exclusively white, zealously religious, mostly Southern party.

Except that the talk-show/tea-party right isn't especially religious nor are they mostly southern. But I'll grant that they are largely white.

I think that Mr. Rutten has confused these folks for his conception of 'white trash'.

Yep, he just called me and the thousands of others white trash, and I hope he and his ilk continue sabotaging their cause by calling a generally moderate cross-section of Americans ugly names for the crime disagreeing with our betters.

Sarah Palin goverened the State of Alaska more like a Libertarian/Republican than a RINO Republican. Very fiscally conservative and socially moderate ("2006, Palin's first veto as Governor was a bill that sought to block state employee benefits and health insurance for same-sex couples.")

She may be socially conservative in her private life, but as Gov, it didn't necessarily translate into her policy reasoning.

Article from Real Clear Politics:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/the_libertarian_case_for_palin.html

Yeah, me too Amy - no surprise to the regulars here, I'm sure.

I wonder, how many other people are in the same boat? Other than the most misguided liberal dullards and welfare queens, I don't see how a majority of Americans can possibly favor big government. If they do, then the system will fail in a constipated mess of bureaucracy, our standard of living will decline, and that will be exactly what "we" deserve. There must be some Democrats who understand this.

But no one wants to be a Republican, because a lot of people (even here in the Midwest) have a hard time identifying with the Bible-thumping kooks - those annoying people who miss the entire point by showing up at the Tea Parties with anti-abortion signs. And who wants to lump themselves in with a bunch of cranky, old, change-resistant white guys? More and more people identify themselves as non-religious. Some of them may believe in God, or at least feel like it's wrong to NOT believe in God, but that doesn't mean they're ready to go out and kill abortion doctors. To these people, the abortion and gay marriage issues aren't even important.

Are they the majority? I have no idea, and no idea how to find out the answer to that question. When so many people vote Democrat simply because they can't stand the Republicans, and vice versa, how do you know what people really want?

This makes me think that it's the gridlock on the political process held by the two major parties that is really the problem. And I don't know how you get around that, when people think voting for a third party is a waste - when they are willing to accept that only one of two unfavorable options is all that is available to them. For sure, third parties have to start running some decent candidates, who might actually make good presidents and congresspeople. How mad to people have to get (in other words, how bad do things have to get), before they start getting involved in the process and fronting candidates who actually represent them?

"almost exclusively white, zealously religious, mostly Southern party"

So easy to write such a line but with absolutely no statistics to back it up. Reading this, I think of my friends with last name like Tsang and Lim and Wong, all of whom strongly support the viewpoints of the conservative movement on talk radio. But somehow they don't count. Sad.

How many times does it have to be explained to you people that the all knowing Obama is more aware of what is right for you than you are! Thus it logically follows that all his programs are just and right. Thus, anyone who questions or dares to oppose his brilliant leadership is not capable of reasoned argument. Thus, the only reason they oppose him is they are all RACISTS!!!

P.S. sarcasm intended

"But no one wants to be a Republican, because a lot of people (even here in the Midwest) have a hard time identifying with the Bible-thumping kooks"

Allow me to add "Bible-thumping kook" to the implied white trash epithet mentioned above.

The thousand or so people at Bart Gordon's townhall here in middle Tennessee wanted to know whether HR 3200 will put a faceless bureaucracy between them and their doctors. They wanted to know whether the IRS will be turning over their files to some new enforcers if they don't buy the government mandated policies. They wondered why their options should be limited to a government approved "Exchange" when they can go online right now and see hundreds of plans. Nonkooky stuff like that.

I don't care about the supposed plethora of Bible-thumping kooks. Except to note that that I haven't experienced any, just like I didn't see any Nazis or white trash. It sort of makes me to wonder whether people talking about kooks and Nazis are actually trying to make us worry about being associated with kooks so we'll stay away.

How many people think Michael Moore will be offended when nobody wants to buy tickets to his movie about capitalism?

Part of the issue is that the two parties have stacked the deck, at least at the federal level, and probably in most states.

Did you know the Federal Election Commission is required to have an equal number of D&R members? And there are 6 commissioners? What chance does another party to have a chance to get past it?

Neither party is against illegals, which is what frustrates me so much about them. Bush said that he would never sign an anti-immigration bill that wouldn't give amnesty to the ones already here. His brother, as governor of Florida, supported giving illegals valid driver's licenses. Unless this was a ploy to entice illegals to the DMV where they can be arrested then deported, that is not an anti-illegal stance.

Republicans support illegals because they are in the back pocket of big business, who can hire illegals and pay them less.

An anti-illegal stance would, for a start, impose fines that would drive companies into bankruptcy if found to be hiring illegals. Which is exactly what I think they should do.

Er, Amy, have you checked Instapundit or The Corner today? Crowd estimates for the DC Tea Party are as high (or higher than) those for Obama's inaugural. Look at the pix & videos. It's not a kook convention.

How do the numbers of protesters disprove the premise that this is a "kook convention"?

If you want to see a genuine parade of crackpots, look here (put your coffee down first):

http://zombietime.com/breasts_not_bombs/

Compare & contrast to the nature & scale of today's events in DC.

> Robert W. (Vancouver)

> Martin (Ontario)

I love these guys.

Oh, surely the last of the hippies is due to die soon? Their drug-addled brains can't POSSIBLy continue to function much longer, can they?

The Libertarians should run Drew Carey. However, I don't think he'd take the pay cut.

How many people think Michael Moore will be offended when nobody wants to buy tickets to his movie about capitalism?

If only it would discourage him from making future films, that would be great. Moore is such an asshole.

Pirate Jo's 4-party system (however unlikely) is a more sensible division of the electorate than that offered by our current parties. However, it's unlikely to happen, because it would have to happen all at once. No matter how loathsome, the Christian right can't be excised from the Republican party, because without them the party isn't electorally viable. It's the same with the unions on the Democratic side. Both of these groups do a great deal to prevent the passage of good legislation and hamstring some of their parties' best people. But because the parties are beholden to these groups come election day, they'll all always have a seat at the table.

http://zombietime.com/breasts_not_bombs/

Holy $%^&! Aren't there any attractive peaceniks left? Some of those hippie chicks used to be pretty cute back in the day.

Pirate Jo @ "who wants to lump themselves in with a bunch of cranky, old, change-resistant white guys?"

So no cranky conservatives have boobies and lady-bits? Doesn't look that way to me.

Thanks for the casual misandry. I knew I could count on you.

Love ya'!