Amy writes: If a tall person sat behind you on an airplane and asked you not to lean your seat back, what would you do?

Say, "I prefer to have my seat in the reclined position. If you need to get up, let me know and I'll raise it then."

Regarding the deference given to tall people vs. the lack thereof to fat people, the reasoning is simple.

Obesity can be corrected. Excessive height can't.

I wish Kevin Smith would shut up his juvenile tantrum. From each according to their more compact size, to each according to their lack thereof? By that same thought process, if I go into a restaurant at my size and order a dish with so many calories, I should only get to eat half of it, and the rest should go to the morbidly obese diner who needs 1000 calories more to sustain their body.

I don't think so.

Patrick's absolutely right, tall people can't help it. If they could, we'd have a lack of short men. I don't want to hear anyone say some people can't help being 400 pounds because of a "thyroid disorder". That's become such a B.S. excuse that so many overweight people have glommed onto without a diagnosis, a catchall phrase that cheapens those who truly have one.

I would be delighted to not recline my seat for two or three hours if someone asks me politely. If they're rude, they can travel with their knees around their ears.

I don't know how tall people can even fly. I am only 5'6" tall, but have long legs. I can shift around and have a flight be tolerable when the person in front of me leans back, but have been surprised more than once by a sharp knock to my knees. If the seat rests on MY knees, for a really tall person, it must be hell. My son is almost a foot taller than I am. How do you pay on a flight like SW to get more leg room?

I would do it for either a tall or fat person. I only fly twice a year and the possibility of this situation is minimal. That means I would only be giving up a small amount of my time to aid a fellow passenger. I see no problem with that. I don't judge why that person is too fat...I am not perfect myself so really, what gives me the right to scorn someone for the way they live their lives. Their fat, not murderers or child molesters so let's get a grip.

I just posted a photo. To answer in advance any questions you may have:

1. Yes, I have veiny hands.
2. Yes, I travel with a tape measure as of late, in case they go into terrorist mode and there are carryon-bag restrictions. If I remove my pillow from my purple carryon, that and my coat and my laptop can fit under the seat.
3. This is my travel uniform, black cashmere turtleneck and black pants. I like to look nice when I travel, and also, if I lose my luggage, it's good to not be wearing pajamas or garage-cleaning-out clothes like so many people do when they fly. I had to wear those pants for almost a week when we went to Mantua and Air France lost my luggage and the Italians were on siesta all that week (apparently).

I'm 5' 10". I recline, and am ok if the person in front of me does. If everyone reclined, it's the same amount of room as everyone straight up. However, I'm sure if asked nicely, I'd comply. I always try for a bulkhead seat, personally. Esp with kids along.

As someone who paid for a seat that reclines, I don't care if your condition is correctable or not. It either takes up my space or it doesn't.

Wasn't it just a day or so ago that Mitt Romney got swung at after asking the person in front of him (politely, I presume) to put his seat in the upright position?
Anyway, isn't this really a non-topic, or should be? In an ideal world where everyone is mindful of the needs of others, people sitting in close proximity on a plane should be able to getting along in a civilized way. It is true that the person sitting next to you has a much greater chance of invading your personal space and many people, me included, are uncomfortable with very close proximity. I feel for obese people having to squeeze themselves into standard airplane seats, but I have a right to my personal space, too.

Tall, short, fat or skinny I can understand. What's "black" got to do with it?

"In an ideal world where everyone is mindful of the needs of others, people sitting in close proximity on a plane should be able to getting along in a civilized way."

Thank you, exactly right. I usually recline my seat the minimum I need to be comfortable, usually 1 notch. Never all the way back unless it's an overnight flight where everyone leans back so they can pretend to sleep.

I'm a fatty who flies, and I make a point not to encroach on anyone seated next to me. I fit between the arm rests, and I don't use both of them, either. It ain't comfortable, but I don't know anyone other than my 4'11" friend who's built like a 10 year old who is comfortable on an airplane.

The point of Mr. Smith's plight, however (in reference to other commenters) is that he *did* fit between the arm rests, and was *not* taking up anyone else's seat, yet SWA still deemed him "too fat to fly".

I have no problem with a policy that asks people who are too large to fit into one seat to buy another. I have a *big* problem (no pun intended) with a policy that is not consistently enforced or that is enforced in plain error.

Obesity can be corrected. Excessive height can't.

Bingo!

I do feel for tall people on these flights. I'm just a tad under six feet, and feel pretty cooped up in economy seats. On a flight from San Diego to D.C. a few years ago, I was put in the very back of the jet, in a window seat -- my very least favorite place to be. I was about to feel sorry for myself when a guy who must have been six foot foor sat down next to me. I'm not sure where he put his legs.

Then the airplane broke. Fortunately, they let us back into the gate area, and by the time the plane was fixed, half the passengers had made other arrangements and I had a row of seats to myself!

Now, if a tall passenger behind me wanted me to keep my seat up, yeah, I'd probably comply if it wasn't a terribly long trip. I'm not likely to sleep much anyway.

None of the complainers have ever flown cargo class in a C130. You're in a sideways facing canvas sling, supported by a pipe under your thighs, with other people's legs jammed between yours, and vice-versa. There is absolutely no room to move. Toss in a drumming vibrating noise, and the odd drop of fluid from the hydraulic lines overhead. The things a guy will do for a little R&R... On a positive note, there were no morbidly obese passengers.

The worst the commercial world has to offer is infinitely better. I've done 14 hour trips to Japan (direct flights from Detroit), with kids, no problem. It's a little tight, and a little uncomfortable for a 5 foot 11 guy, but nothing intolerable. If the pilot arrives safely, we did too. Maybe my attitude is colored by the fact that you tend not to see many obese people in Japan. They can't afford the food.

I rarely fly, but when I do, I try to be as considerate as I can towards others. Sometimes it gets reciprocated, sometimes not. Such is life.

I'm on the "tall people can't help it" bandwagon.

Sure, there are some folks who are very overweight and cannot control it. For example, a friend and his sister both have really bad Tourette's and take medication for it. It causes them to be very, very overweight. They are naturally very tall people and their whole family is thin, and they eat well and exercise...but the fat clings to them. Same w/ a friend who was on steroids for severe asthma. Thin family. Thin growing up. Good habits. Went on the roids. BAM. Fat.

But such cases are few and far between. Most people are fat because they have some problems. Probably in their brain (I've been reading about research showing people can be addicted to food). I understand they have a harder time than I do saying no to the Nth slice of pie...but in the end they are that way because of their habits. Not because they were struck by an illness or were genetically predetermined to be so obese.

I feel bad they have a harder time than me, and are probably emotionally screwed up, but not bad enough that they should suffocate me.

My little brother is six foot seven. He was born that way and my parents have had to pay extra for him to sit in the emergency row b/c then he has the amount of legroom that everyone else has. And he isn't jarring the person in front of him every time he moves.

The world is averages. Erich is taller than average. An airline shouldn't have to take a hit on their bottom line because of it, even though it kinda sucks for him to pay more. I feel the same about fat people.

@Gretchen: "My little brother is six foot seven. He was born that way..."

What a huge baby!

@MarkD: "None of the complainers have ever flown cargo class in a C130."

Ah yes, I remember flying from the UK to Norfolk, VA on a web seat in a C-141. Not as bad as a C-130, but close. I was by myself; I felt kind of bad for the young couple with a baby who were also on the flight.

OK,

Amy has once again drawn our attention to the needy of this world ... women who can't afford their bras.

I found a site; lets all pony up!

helpoutwithembigbras.org

Not racist, just out of place for the subject at hand. Gratuitous comes to mind.

Actually, on second thought, gratuitous is the wrong word. Superfluous would be a better choice.

Just because you CAN force the armrests down, doesn't mean you fit. And Mr Hollywood did not. Butts ooze under and sideflab oozes over. Ick. You're still taking up my space.

Tall can ask for emergency row or bulkhead. I understand some airlines are charging extra for those seats now. I'd pay it. I'm 5'10" and hub is 6'5". Coach is excrutiating for us for any cross country or ocean flight. We'll tolerate it for a few hours but then it starts to hurt.

Like everyone is saying, Fat is something most people can do something about. Just back away from the ice cream. Ya can't do anythying about tall.

Please don't assume that everyone who reclines his/her seat is doing so for comfort. Since I'm 6'4" and many, if not most, seats are designed for shorter folks, my back doesn't get the support it needs *unless* I recline it. If I don't do so, I get to enjoy a fucked up back wherever the 747 takes me. (On the other hand, perhaps I should remember to explain this to the person sitting behind me. At least that may help.)

The world is averages. Erich is taller than average. An airline shouldn't have to take a hit on their bottom line because of it, even though it kinda sucks for him to pay more. I feel the same about fat people.

They barely accomadate me at 6ft (with relatively short legs) and that is about the 75th percentile for white males in the USA. 6'4" is the 99th percentile (cannot remember if that is for men only or both men & women). No its not reasonable to force airlines to accomdate the extreme outliers, however, it seems reasonable that people of common sizes should be accomadated.

I have no problem paying for some extra room. I have not managed to get an exit row in years. Once, I was offered to "upgrade" to the exit row for $200 (on a $300 ticket). Only once have I gotton an economy+ seat. I am not one of their 10^googal mile partners...just a regular frequent flyer. I have paid $500 to upgrade to business on a $1500 ticket.

For really long flights, such as flights to Asia, it might pay to ask around to a few travel agents. My wife has found pretty good deals on business class seats going all the way from D.C. to Manila by doing that. One probably has to plan pretty far in advance, though.

I don't mind the person in front of me leaning back as much as I deplore his treating the lean back process as if it's a quickdraw contest, slamming his seat back with no regard for the fact that I might be leaning forward at the time. I've almost had my nose broken on more than one occasion.

I'm 5'6" and fairly able-bodied. The last time I flew United Airlines, I couldn't even reach under my feet to get my purse when the seat ahead of me was in a reclining position. My neck was totally twisted up. I wondered what some arthritic, osteoporosis-ridden little old lady would do if she bent over like than and right at that moment the person in front decided to recline. Theoretical LoL would break her neck! That's one reason I won't fly United (or American) if I can possibly help it.

Tall folks? The idea that someone behind me would even ask me not to recline is obnoxious. I'd ring for the attendant and request that one of us be re-seated. But yeah, even 5'6" is too tall these days, what are the beanpoles going to do?

For a while I believed that "the airlines" were all in cahoots to stealthily move the seats closer together, like a quarter inch a year, until passengers are jammed into little compressed cubes, just like junked cars.

Heh, ask me how I got to Iraq.

Yes, you guessed it, C-130.

Want to know something worse?

That travel experience CAN BE more comfortable in some ways than a standard commercial flight.

The people sitting beside me for example, don't ooze their flesh over into my lap.

"flatter chested ladies aren't helping out with the purchase price."

I pay $5 for bras at ross. And they last me several years. Do I have beestings? No but I'm sure not as busty as Amy or some of my friends. Wow the prices they have to pay for bras. I finally beat Amy on the cheapness factor.

Love your body btw Amy!

Offtopic–

First, I think we'd all probably love Ppen's body too, if we knew what it looked like, but only because I've always liked her comments.

Second, can I get a little righteous admiration for chasing away both BOTU and Whatever, commenters who'd been here for about 8 (aggravating) months, within the space of a single week? Isn't that worth a gift certificate for a cup of Starbux or something?

(Sure, Jody and Brian are still here after several years, and using their real names despite my heartfelt best efforts... But ours is a game ['blogpiss'] where victory and progress are measured in inches, not yardage.)

Third, Amy's really bugged by these Sadly people, and I understand why. For an author trying to move her second title on the basis of personal fortitude and clarity, these mosquitos are not entirely trivial.

But let's remember: These Sadly/Amazon people are lonely. Someone was talking in the other post about how they're mostly unemployed "playwrights" or whatnot, which is probably accurate. These are folks who think a truly decent planet would be much kinder to them –just for being themeselves– than this one is. Mm'kay? Humility, and a broad sense of proportion in our social ebb & flow, are not what they're about.

And Amy, despite all the horseshit I've thrown her way over the last seven years or so, is an independent businesswoman in a market (inexpensive media) that's always demanded hustle, long hours, and attention to the Big Themes in the hearts of others. Her work's given her a stylish life on the beach in America's best weather and many visits to Paris, and she doesn't kowtow to some alcoholic boss in an office somewhere. That's really cool, OK?

But I worry that these guys push Amy's buttons in a way that she can't resist. They get their (anonymous) needs met because this Calfornia redhead cares about them, and she gets nothing but (public) exasperation. It's like the guy said in Gift of Fear: Everytime you respond to a stalker, positively or negatively, you buy another six weeks of stalking. They are that needy.

Fourth, this doesn't mean Amy is the only one with this problem. Many people think the blogging revolution has kind of played itself out, such that the real action has moved to Facebook or Twitter. I'm not sure that's true. But even if it is, I bet within three years there will be a special name for commenters like the Sadly people, anonymous internet agents of infantile neediness. (And I fear, as a pseudo-anonymous commenter, that I'll be ranked as one of them.)

> Heh, ask me how I got to Iraq.

Rather know what you did, and what you saw, once you got there.

Funny how this "how to get the best seat in coach" article popped up this evening.

http://www.bing.com/travel/content/search?q=How+to+Get+the+Best+Seat+in+Coach&cid=msn1129532>1=41000

Going to Japan, I have always found that business is between 8000-9000usd. Coach has been a low of 700usd (and very inconvient) and a high of 1600usd. That was through a travel agent - I had to get a JR railpass so got my airfare through them as well. I just checked now and for Novembmer '10 (being one of the two cheapest months for flights to Japan) and business was a low of $4500 (by far the lowest I have ever seen it) and economy was $1100. My best luck has been to check in online as soon as I can (24 hours before) and will often times be offered to upgrade the long leg (one way) for $500.

Four years ago United business to Japan was $4400. I was flying with my mother, who has health problems wants the extra space. Since then business class has gone out of control. As you say, business between Narita and Atlanta for example, is over $8,000. I looked for the May holidays, as we're going to the US and it is $12,000 for the Japanese holiday week! Business class isn't that good!

We fly Korean air lately, you have to stay overnight in Seoul on the way to the US, but it's around $3000 for business class. We'll be on Korean again in May. I'd love to fly with Delta, but we just can't afford that (DH will only fly business).

Robert,

Ask me how I got to the Channel Islands out here, in, as Arnie would say, Caleeeefornia.

Answer:

Helicopter (Navy), the "Hey, is anybody going to bother shutting the back door? ... No? ... OK, I guess I can forget about the in flight movie, too, huh?"

Conan writes: "don't mind the person in front of me leaning back as much as I deplore his treating the lean back process as if it's a quickdraw contest, slamming his seat back with no regard for the fact that I might be leaning forward at the time."

I usually have to do work during flights, so as to not totally waste the hours. As soon as departure is complete and the FAs announce that electronics may be used, my laptop is out. However, I've learned to be very careful with the lid. Several times I've been working away and all of a sudden the person in front of me has banged his seat back abruptly, catching the top edge of my laptop's lid in the area in the seat back where the tray table folds up. I've seen other people get their laptops broken that way, and I've almost had it happen a couple of times myself.

Thanks, Amy, I'll check that out! I know you once posted the way to buy stuff like that through your mall, but I can't find it now...