I'm not in favor of killing the whale if an alternative exists. After all, it was just doing what killer whales do. We kill animals for hunting and food production purposes, or if the animal poses an immediate danger to us, neither of which is true here at this time. (Had someone had a gun capable of killing the whale at the time that it happened, and had shot the whale to save the trainer, I would have approved of that.)

I wonder if the whale has been in captivity too long to be released back into the wild? If so, that's what should be done. (And perhaps attach a tracking device to the whale first, so that it serves a scientific purpose.) Otherwise, it may be necessary to put the whale down because there just isn't anything else that can be done with it. But even if it comes to that, this should be something that is done out of necessity, not out of spite.

@Cousin Dave: "... it may be necessary to put the whale down because there just isn't anything else that can be done with it. But even if it comes to that, this should be something that is done out of necessity, not out of spite."

Agree. One can't punish an animal for being an animal, no matter how intelligent we think they might be.

Just for the record, if you're hiking in the woods and meet Bambi, an over-protective mother is near and deer do trample people. That said, I'm sorry the woman died but yeah, the whale was doing what whales do and she knew the risks.

Agree, One can't punish an animal for being an animal

The name "killer whale" derives from the Spanish "ballena asesina" ("whale killer" in English), evidently coming from sailors who observed them hunting whales.[9][10] English-speaking scientists most often use the term "killer whale."[11]

.... because the name brings in the crowds.

And only captive whales kill people.

About a hundred years ago in Tennessee there was an elephant named Mary publicly executed by hanging for killing her trainer...

If a five ton animal with a big mouth full of big teeth wants to play with you, then you're in trouble, no matter how benevolent it's intentions are. A moment of carelessness (like letting your ponytail dangle before it's eyes like a tempting toy) can lead to tragedy.

Hell no. You take an animal out of it's environment and try to get it to perform, sometimes it's going to revert to acting wild. The people who work with these animals get that. Hell, even her surviving family gets that.

Kill the whale? That's ridiculous. The idiots at Sea World are the ones that think Orca can be trained into housepets. Why punish the whale for Sea World's stupidity? If the whale cannot be released into the wild, then put it in an aquarium, where it can be kept for display purposes.

If the whale cannot be released into the wild, then put it in an aquarium, where it can be kept for display purposes.***

You can't. No matter where you put the dolphin in our world he has to be handled and fed. Vets have to have access to care for his health. This requires someone to risk death to care for him.

Nor can you put him back out into the wild. He can't fend for himself. Euthanasia is the only thing you can do for him and others he might kill..

Orca's are dolphins.

No, they shouldn't kill the Orca.

I am far from a card holding PETA member but here's the deal; these are wild animals who have absolutely NO business spending their lives in a Barbie pool to the amusement of overweight, pasty-legged tourists while have anchovies hurled at them for performing circus tricks.

I'd be pissed too.

They should be left in their natural habitat. I will never pay money to see one of these shows.

Let the poor thing go. It's sickening to keep him confined for the amusement of a bunch of fat tourists, anyway.

If they do kill the whale do you suppose they'd sell any of the meat?

Feebie, the price of the show is included in the admission to Seaworld. Just sayin'.

But no, I don't think they should kill it. They can't let it go, either, 'cause it wouldn't be able to fend for itself. Better to let it live out its days in retirement at the park, in its own tank or something.

to the amusement of overweight, pasty-legged tourists

Excuse me, but I'm neither overweight nor pasty-legged. Well, maybe a little pasty-legged. I saw the Sea World show last year; thought it was great. I see no problem with training animals to do tricks. They're animals; some I eat, some I watch do tricks.

Mobsters eat lobsters, lobsters eat mobsters. It's all part of the wonderful circle of life.

Where joo git that? You didn't come up with that on your own.

Killer whales in captivity have a much shorter lifespan than those in the wild. There's a bit of poetic justice in seeing an abused animal kill its captors.

Having said that, it is probably too old to be released... releasing it would require lots and lots of training, and it would be better to keep it away from people.

Yes, it would still need vets and to be fed, but keeping human contact to a minimum would decrease the odds of another tragedy. I say put it in an aquarium, and don't do shows with it anymore.

The whale, if I remember what I read correctly, had already killed 2 other people. Sea World was idiotic for continuing to let it perform.

The cynic in me says release it near where the Japanese whalers and Greenpeace (or whatever those anti-whaling activists are) are duking it out. I have a perverted sense of humor but:

What side is the Orca on, if any? Would the Japanese actually eat meat from a real "killer" whale if they caught it? If Greenpeace rams a Japanese whaler and both boats sink, would the Orca take sides, or just kill as many survivors as it could? Would we have a racist killer whale if it only killed the Japanese? Or vice-versa?

So many questions, so few answers...

This particular one was captured in the wild, so I think it would probably be quite happy to go back. Maybe they could let him go with a nice pension or some unemployment benefits.

Nor can you put him back out into the wild. He can't fend for himself
Based on what? Just because it grew up in captivity. A whole ton of animal behavior is instinctual, they've done studies testing animals that have lived in captivity and they automatically knew social behaviors they were never taught when exposed for the first time to others of the same kind. Hunting is one of those things they can probably do on their own. Maybe he won't be as good at it as whales who have hunted all their lives, but I bet he can. My dog can hunt small game and catch it - he was never taught that.

Certainly some behaviors might be taught, but we don't know for sure what. This is an opportunity to learn. If the put trackers on it to monitor it, then it would result in a wealth of information for marine biologists and behavioral scientists.

the orca has had a taste of white meat now, you know what that means ... Once you've had human you can never go back

"The idiots at Sea World are the ones that think Orca can be trained into housepets."

Hmm. For the last, what, thirty years, they've been right.

While we have a duty to any creature we confine, just what would anyone know about animals if not for zoos?

Do you really think youngsters are not inspired to become naturalists, biologists, zoologists and the like by visits to Sea World and other, similar displays?

Remember Amy's earlier efforts to show how people misidentify risk?

Own a dog?

"the orca has had a taste of white meat now"

Human, the other other white meat.

(via one of the Austin Powers movies...)

They definitely should not kill the whale for being a...whale. The trainer knew the risks. Personal responsibility, people.

>>The whale, if I remember what I read correctly, had already killed 2 other people. Sea World was idiotic for continuing to let it perform.

One of those doesn't count. The second person he killed was a moron who snuck into SeaWorld after closing and jumped into the tank naked. He died (technically) of hypothermia, and it's theorized that all Tilikum did was play with his dead body. If you're dumb enough to sneak into a closed park and try to swim with the whales naked...

And Tilikum should live, as almost everyone agrees. However, I think they should take him out of the performances (as they should've done the first time he harmed a trainer). While he's undoubtedly a draw (he's the biggest killer whale they have), he's also proven to be too tempted to rough-house with his trainers. While I'm pretty certain he didn't mean to harm the trainer (when you're 6 tons, even at your gentlest you're a danger), it's an awful big risk to take for a whale with two kills under his belt [b/c naked guy doesn't count.].

Of course not. That whale never would have hurt anyone if they had left it where it belongs.

A couple months ago I had a similar situation (on a much smaller scale, of course) at home. I have a shelter dog who is sweet as pie 99% of the time. He is, however, timid at times and doesn't like being cornered. To make a long story short, one night I was teasing him by pretending to beg at my fiance's plate with him. He was sort of boxed in by my fiance and myself on two sides. When I stuck my neck forward to pretend I was sniffing the plate, I boxed him in on the third side (he had no where to go but back). So, he lunged and snapped at my face.

Yes, he drew blood, but it was really more of a warning snap. Just about everyone was adamant that I have him put down...even my sister who has a rescue dog of her own. Everyone kind of told me "That's what you get for adopting a Pit Bull mix." Umm, no. That's what I get for:
1)Spoiling him rotten to the point where he believed he was the alpha dopg of our "pack". If he thought of me as the opack leader as he should have, he never would have snapped at me.
2)Teasing him
3)Ignoring everything I know about being a responsible pet owner
4) And most importantly being enough of a fucking idiot to stick my face between a dog and his food.

To my defense (and this is the onyl thing I'll say in my defense), I have always owned Golden Retrievers that I had from the time they were puppies. This is the first dog I have adopted as an adult and the first to be even partially a "bully breed".

Here's the thing: I KNOW how to be a responsible dog owner. I always have been. I just ignored it. I knew damn well what could happen if I didn't keep up with his training, I just didn't think it really WOULD happen. Well, it did.

Okay, I've rambled on longer than I thought I would. Believe it or not, that IS the short version of that story. My point is: animals are going to be animals. Just because we give them a home, put a collar on them and buy them a fluffy bed, that doesn't mean they are people. Just because the last Killer Whale you trained was all cuddly and sweet, that doesn't mean the next one will be. You simply cannot blame an animal for being an animal. It's terrible what happened to that trainer, but she had to know the risk when she took on that job. It's like when people were all shocked that Steve Irwin died. Seriously? The dude pokes at alligators! I'm suprised it didn't happen sooner!

Obviously, this animal was not cut out for the life it has been forced into. They should either release it into the wild (IF they're sure it knows how to survive) or retire it to an aquarium somewhere where it won't have to perform. It's not like it attacks every human it sees. It snapped during a show. I'd be interrested to find out if the previous times it attacked were during shows. Maybe it just can't handle all the noise and excitement.

Oh, and I'm not spell checking this cuz I don't feel like it. Go easy on me, I got a concussion on Monday and I'm still feeling loopy. Yeah, I've gotten the crap kicked out of me the last few months!

Ah Kim your post makes me want to scratch my eyes out. Honestly shelters shouldn't adopt pets, in particular pit bulls, out to people who aren't going to train them appropriately. The shelter I volunteer at wouldn't have let you adopt a pit bull. You can't say you're a responsible pet owner if you do not in fact act like a responsible pet owner. I'd LOVE to have a freakin dog but I know I wouldn't have enough time to be a good owner. It's so unfair to your poor dog, what if the next time he's in his one percent of bad behavior time he bites your neighbor's kid? Stick with fish.

my dog's half pit. and half shepherd. don't tell her about the pit, she'd be heartbroken if she knew she was supposed to be mean - "bite you? but i love you!" she says to the armed robber in my house.... not really. at least to the armed robber's actual existence, anyway. she loves everyone. some guard dog.
but seriously, that whale should be released. if he was caught in the wild, he can probably still survive in it. if he was born in captivity or caught before he was weaned, maybe not. but definitely not killed.

Sam, I get where you are coming from and I would say the same thing to me. Let me just explain a bit:

Believe me or don't, but I have always been a responsible pet owner. My goldens were well trained (though still food-stealers) and very well taken care of. I love dogs. I've done a lot of research on proper training and care for them. When we first adopted Jack, my fiance was a little tough to deal with because he hadn't had a dog on his own yet. He always had his mother there to do all the training on his dogs in the past. I tried to train Jack properly and do everything right, but (like with kids) when one parent isn't on the same page, it's tough to remain consistent. We were both guilty of spoiling him. We both just felt so bad that such a great dog had been in a shelter for 10+ months.

I'm not blaming it all on him. I should have demanded that he help me train him, but I didn't. Slowly but surely the routine broke down. We started letting him up on the couch and into bed with us and he started thinking he was the boss. I noticed this happening, but it was damn near impossible to get my fiance to see the problem. In his mind, if Jack growled when I tried to move him so I could get on the couch, I must be doing something wrong. Again, I should have put my foot down. I tried to explain that when a dog feels like an alpha, he's going to act like it. WE let him feel like that so it was up to US to show him that we were the pack leaders. My fiance would just look at me like I was crazy. I don't think he ever realized that there's a psychology to owning a dog...especially a dog like Jack.

Again, I STILL blame myself for not dragging him into the shelter right then to hear it from one of the trainers.

After the bite, I called the shelter and we got both ourselves and Jack into training. We were both doing things wrong. Our entire routine at home has changed and Jack is doing much better. I gave my fiance an ultimatum: Help me train the dog or help me find him a good home.

Believe me, I am still beating myself up about this. I have nieces and nephews and there are kids in the neighborhood. It makes me sick to my stomach that my actions could have gotten one of them hurt.

The thing is, I DID know exactly how to train that dog. I didn't slack on the routine due to laziness or not having time. We wouldn't have gotten the dog if we didn't have time to care for him. I knew all of the risks, but I still kind of thought to myself: "MY dog wouldn't do that." Stupid, I know. Believe me I know how stupid it was. I'm still beating myself up about it. On top of it being a danger to me and my family, it gives anti-Pit people one more reason to say: "See, I told you those dogs are evil." That's the point I was trying to make in my post. I KNOW this was entirely my fault, not the dog's.

To clear one thing up: My dog is not "aggressive". When I said he's a sweet heart 99% of the time, that doesn't mean that the other 1% he's frothing at the mouth and hunting for blood. He just used to have moody days where he would grumble every time I asked him to do something...or pretend he didn't hear me.

Sam, please don't tell me to stick to fish. You don't know me. You heard ONE story I wrote up quickly in the comments section of a blog. I know exactly what I did wrong and I took all of the steps needed to fix it. I could not be any more thankful that it was me that he bit and not a guest in my home. If I wasn't willing to do the work, I would have turned him back in to the shelter. We spent many hours with the trainer with and without Jack. She is confident that my dog is not aggressive and that we can be good owners. She's a professional that has actually met me, my fiance and my dog...so I think I'll go with her advice instead of yours. Oh, and meeting with the trainer was completely voluntary. She told me on the phone that she could tell I knew exactly what I did wrong and I could fix it. I asked her to meet with us. We were spending an hour a week with her one on one for a couple months. ALL voluntary on our part because we love our dog and we really do want what's best for him.

Whatever-My dog is terrified of my female cat. All she has to do is give him the look and he starts crying and sometimes even tries to hide behind me. Yeah, he's a real tough guy.

Amy-Sorry for going completely off-topic and rambling again. :)

"Killer whales in captivity have a much shorter lifespan than those in the wild. There's a bit of poetic justice in seeing an abused animal kill its captors."
That is a lovely comment. Some young woman spends her life training to work with whales and dolphins out of love for them and because you disagree, you think she deserves to die?

The woman killed by the whale was not following the protocol. She laid down on a platform in front of the whale that she was not supposed to lie on. Her ponytail dangled in front of him and he supposedly thought it was a toy or food or something. Its a killer whale. There are risks involved and whether or not people agree with these shows, nobody deserved to die and I think this trainer knew the risks. Like anyone else though, who thinks it will happen to them? I love animals but do think that there are benefits to a show like the one at SeaWorld. It does expose young people to other aspects of life that maybe they would not otherwise be exposed to and possibly pushes them to other careers pertaining to wildlife or the environment.

1: This beast is an ANIMAL people.

This beast's rights are limited to freedom from gratuitous cruelty. Period. (1)

This beast is property (1) that is no longer economically valuable to Seaworld, which is a business. There is no responsibility (1) to maintain this beast for the rest of its natural life. This beast should be slaughtered (1) and the meat (1) distributed to poor people.

This softheaded idiocy is ongoing, and in all seriousness I blame Disney. "Bambi" ranks among the best propaganda ever made.

I cut my young kids off from TV 15 years ago when I noticed the amount of Gaianic indoctrination aimed at their tender brains. Today the elder girl is planning to be a forester. And taxidermist, FTW!

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phunctor