It seems to me that the fundamental problem is that science education and logical thinking is pretty much passe in this country. Credentialism has replaced logic. If it sounds sciency and the person making the claim has a PHD in poltergeist detection and they SAY it is based on "quantum physics" then who are we to argue with science? The same principle applies when some barely literate hollywoood actor steps up to the microphone and makes pronouncements on global warming. Because they are rich, they must be smart. :-)

I think the assertion that energy medicine is based on "quantum physics" is the most amusing thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for a laugh to start the weekend!

Energy medicine?

Do they have written, double-blind studies reproduced by multiple, independent investigators working separately from one another? (I.e., no sharing of personnel, equipment, lab space or data.)

If so, is the raw protocol and data available for review?

If the answers to the foregoing are "no", well, keep your claims to "We really *hope* to someday show that..."

I am often surprised at how little empirical evidence there is for a great deal of what the medical profession does on a daily basis, while it increasingly ignores the really basic stuff.

The "quantum physics" claim is interesting hype because it sounds profound and can't be disproved. At the very most basic level (quarks and leptons, several steps below the level of actual medical relevance) quantum physics does rule.

When my computer at work went on the fritz, I complained, "Never trust an electron, or even whole swarms of them. They zip off on strange trajectories at the merest whim. Particles? Waves? You never know. Give me a tool that depends on solid substance, like my ax."

A friend pointed out, "The reason your ax bites into wood is the electron pressure along its edge."

Well, okay. Point taken. But still. . . .

Well, actually, radiation therapy does depend directly on quantum effects, both in producing the radiation and its effects on molecules in cells. I doubt that's the kind of energy medicine these people have in mind, though.

Aannnd there's a whole track of events at DragonCon devoted to critical thinking, featuring guys like Phil Plait (the Bad Astronomer), James Randi (The Amaz!ng Randi, sponsor of the Million Dollar Challenge) and a few others from around the globe. It's gotten so popular that a "Paranormal" track has been started. I consider those guys idiots, who cannot even recognize basic cause and effect.

There's a reason you don't fly on a paranormal airplane or get paranormal H1N1 vaccine.

-----

By the way, you can safely ignore people who talk about "quantum" anything if they are talking about consumer products. Why? It is just buzzwording.
The term started in atomic theory. Models of atomic behavior didn't work unless electrons could only occupy "positions" with given values relative to a nucleus. The difference in state was called a "quantum". In typical fashion, popular usage confused this completely.

When you look it up, you'll find that proton-neutron-electron explanations of atomic and molecular behavior have been tossed in favor of hadron-lepton classification for the description of some behavior.

None of this changes the plain fact that ordinary chemistry, complex as it is, is all that is going on when you use a consumer product of any kind. Pfizer can do things that would surprise Professor Snape, but that's not because of magic.

Oh, yeah. Here is a shorter story about why people believe what they do. It really is pretty simple.

The idea's not pretty enough to sell books, though.

Even simpler: people simply stop looking when they are happy, and think that any more would be bad for them.

Amy "Quantum fashion" already exists - remember the way Al dressed in Quantup Leap?

And Radwaste, ever wonder if the person who coined the phrase 'Ignorance is bliss' was themselves an ignroant person or not?

What gets me is that these people assert the quantum physics basis of this crap as if that's enough. Which, I guess, is true, since a lot of people buy into it just because it sounds like science. But they never explain what, exactly, the stuff does on a quantum level. I was pushing for a specific explanation a while back on one of the threads where we discussed this. One of the posters kept saying that it worked, but none of us could get him to explain exactly what worked. I think I said on that thread that with any medication I've ever taken since I was about ten, I knew what it did. I know how antihistamines, analgesics, and antidepressants work in the body. I can probably still draw pictures of some of it. I was most recently on acyclovir (shingles suck, by the way) and the process was explained to me before I left the doctor's office (of a walk-in clinic, too, not some muckety-muck specialist-- good science is available to all).

Good science depends on being two key attributes: repeatability and falsifiability. Anything that can't adhere to these two things shouldn't be trusted, especially when it comes to your health.

Amy,
Have you seen the "Mitchell & Webb Look" "Homeopathic A&E" sketch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

It's only 2:33 and it is brilliant.
Actually, all the Mitchell and Webb stuff is funnier than 90% of what gets served up on US TV these days. Check out the vegetarian video as well. Fall down funny.

(shingles suck, by the way) - numbersix

Thats a HUGE fucking understatment

I didn't even get it that bad, luj. It's actually a weird story. My aunt had it right before Christmas (she'd had it for a while, but that was when I saw her). New Year's Eve, my grandmother (other side) complained of a strange pain on her forehead. The following Monday, she went to the doctor and confirmed it was shingles and I was at the doctor on Wednesday getting my prescription (I started showing symptoms on Sunday before I found out my grandmother had it). My uncle (back to the first side, but my aunt's brother-in-law) got it a couple of weeks after that. I was really lucky because I caught it before I got the really awful rash. The doctor told me you can actually stop it before it gets too bad if you start antivirals before the rash pops up. But the whole left side of my head was in excruciating pain even though I only ever got a few bumps.

Apparently it's also really hard to catch from another person, so we couldn't quite figure out who got it from whom, or if it was just a huge coincidence.

Quantum physics, huh? Does that mean that there's a 50/50 probability the the very visible medicine you're taking doesn't actually exist?

Numbersix, shingles is a remenent of chicken pox. It ususally only hits people with severly depressed immune systems like the elderly.

I found out that everyone in my familly winds up getting it before 30 for some bizzare reason. Ofcorse I had no idea what it was untgil the rash had already presented. The reason its so pinful is because the rash exposes nerve endings to the air.

The nice(or really bad) thing is all future outbreak will happen in the exact same spot so it wil be easier to recognise in the future

"Quantum physics, huh? Does that mean that there's a 50/50 probability the the very visible medicine you're taking doesn't actually exist?

Posted by: mpetrie98 at June 6, 2010 4:21 PM"

Does this mean there is a 50/50 chance one of us doesn't exist?

Numbersix, shingles is a remenent of chicken pox

I know, that's what's weird. You can technically catch it from someone, but only if they're shedding the virus (i.e., the rash is present but not crusted yet). It mostly comes from your own immune system. My grandmother getting it on her own makes sense, because she had a kidney removed about five months before she got it, and was therefor immunosuppressed anyway. I, however, am perfectly healthy and wasn't exposed to people with the active rash (my aunt's had already crusted). And most of the time, all that does is give someone chicken pox if he hasn't had it already. Also, I'm not even related to my aunt and uncle (my dad's siblings' spouses), so there wasn't a genetic thing there. Like, I said, the doctor and I were trying to figure out if there was a timeline or if it was just one weird coincidence.

I was really, really lucky that my grandmother told me she had it so soon after I started showing symptoms. I don't want to imagine what it would have been like had I waited until I had the rash, because there's really nothing you can do about it then.

You did have hicken pox as a kid though right?

AS I said every one in my family gets it the first time before the age of thirty - no depressed immune system required.

As for what its like - PAIN

constant non stop pain, the bad thing is it constantly shifts types - cold, hot, pins and needles, stabbing, shoting, sharp, dull,

It runs across evrything you've ever experianced.

Ihad a 2 inch square above my hip and level with my stomach so the only nevers firing was a 6 inch strip from under my ribs to the middle of my stomch. I can imagine what the effect would have ben had the rash been nearer a major nerve cluster

I did have chicken pox, so it's not surprising that I got it, it's just surprising that we all had it around the same time. It had to be at least partly coincidence, because we weren't all around each other right before we got it. I was on a car trip with my grandmother, but she hadn't been around my aunt, and neither of us had been around my uncle for a month before he got it.

My grandmother's symptoms were more advanced than mine, and she had it in the same place but on the other side of her head. The doctor told me there was a nerve right along the top left side of my head, and that's definitely where the pain was. From my forehead all the way back. It felt like the whole side of my head was really badly bruised and constantly throbbing, but under the skin so there was nothing I could do about it. By far the worst pain I've ever had. And I count myself lucky, because everyone else I know had it much worse. My sympathies to you and anyone else who had the rash.

I'm glad I found your blog on Yahoo your posts are very informative !

I'm glad I found your blog on Google your posts are very informative !