When I saw those words, my first thought was what is the context? and I was right.

Can I be a hater too then?

bbbbut, this can't be true. This must be some kind of,of propaganda to make us think that they are barbarians. we just need to sit down with these noble, misunderstood people and I'm sure they will explain to us why we are all wrong about them. truly.

man, I can barely type that with a straight face.

The actress who plays Padma Patil in the Harry Potter movies recently fled to London after her father and brother tried to kill her. They were ordered to stay away from her and an unnamed man. Guess their religion and what's not the religion of the unnamed man.

This is some sick sh*t, and this opinion comes from somebody who believes adultery should be a crime.

When are we going to stop allowing immigration from ROP countries?

I really hate it when a group of people is lumped together for something they have in common. Can anyone say prejudice?

I find "Getting Stoned" to be a product of faulty logic, as it seems to assume that all Muslims would agree that stoning is appropriate (which is not true).

Stonings, burnings, be headings were also a part of medieval Christian Europe. These brutal executions are more a product of a culture than a culture's religion.

Stop blaming a religion for a culture's problems. What's the alternative? Round up all the Muslims and send them to the gas chambers, like the Nazis did to the Jews?

The first step towards a genocide is thinking another human being is not a human being but different. Could stonings happen in the US? Sure, hangings are still carried out in certain states as a death penalty. Quit blaming religion for a culture's problems!

The first step towards a genocide is thinking another human being is not a human being but different.

Which is why Muslims are so dangerous. Or have you never heard of dhimmis?

In an interview published April 23, 2009 in the Saudi Daily 'Okaz, reformist thinker Ibrahim Al-Buleihi expressed his admiration for Western civilization

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3264.htm

Buleihi: "Our culture (Muslim, my addition) has been and continues to be absorbed with questions of the forbidden and the permitted and belief and disbelief, because it is a religious civilization…"

Um, well. I've been to mosque and have been around quite a few Muslims for the past ten years. No one has tried to beat me, stone me, etc.

Of course this could be the exception rather than the rule. My point is that in a backward county like Afghanistan, desperate people result to desperate measures. If the Afghanistan was a Christian nation, I would be surprised to see similar actions taken by its people.

Also in the Quaran, Christians and Jews are considered people of the book and that they should be treated as such. Look at Islamic Spain, it wasn't until the Catholic inquisition that people were brutalized. Keep your blame straight and leave religion out of it.

The article in question was about Iran, not Afghanistan. Why are there no churches, synagogues, shrines, wats in Saudi Arabia? Put the blame on Islam.

We'll let's consider the fact that Saudi Arabia does not have a constitutional guarantee to freedom of religion as America does. I'm not saying it's right, just that one shouldn't compare apples to oranges.

If America didn't have freedom of religion would there be the conglomeration of places of worship here? I doubt it.

You are so full of it Paula. You are correct, SA does not have freedom of religion. The only nominally secular muslim majority countries are Turkey and Syria, and maybe Lebanon, Iraq. For the rest, Islam is the official ideology, which is why Pakistan is "investigating" facebook founder Zuckerberg. Look at Islamic Spain. It was after islam was overthrown did it finally begin to prosper.

I wouldn't blame the Muslims; this used to be common with Christans too. Their culture is fucked up; but if more schools should be built in those poor areas to stop these tragedies. The book "Three Cups of Tea" addressed this.

Biff, to quote your article:

"Buleihi: "We sharply distinguish between Islam in itself and what people do in its name. The great principles of Islam and its sublime doctrines that emphasize and uphold human value and dignity have not had a chance throughout history to establish themselves. Ever since the end of the period of the rightly-guided Caliphs, man's individuality was eradicated in Arab history and his value has been linked to his political, religious, regional, or tribal affiliation… The only civilization which acknowledges and respects man as an individual is Western civilization… Behavior in any field is not the outcome of teachings, as such, but rather of practice and actual experience...."

Basically, Buleihi's point is that Arabs are responsible for the bastardization of Islam in the eyes of the West. Almost all major religions could be used to ensure pain and suffering on people. Enlightenment is possible through an educated citizenry that is economically soluble. Without those basic ingredients, any crazy can rule. What needs to happen is for people to recognize crazy, megalomania for what it is rather than blaming it on something it isn't.

Understand that Islam is also the religion that gave us the Taj Mahal. If it was such a woman hating religion how could a religious ruler build such a tomb for a beloved wife?

Just because certain countries or individuals choose to denigrate Islam to their own ideology doesn't mean that the religion itself is to blame.

I agree with Suzanna.

And question all others, as what is your solution?

I'm tired of all the hype, shock and scare tactics people use to create headlines. Offer a solution instead of just proffering problems.

Hate and violence only leads to further hate and violence.

Communism also gave us the first human to orbit the earth...does that mean the ideology is above criticism?

Just because certain countries or individuals choose to denigrate Marx to their own ideology doesn't mean that the Marx himself is to blame. What the...?

Yes, it is true that Saudi Arabia represents less than 1.8% of the world's Muslim population. Pakistan does not represent the Muslim world, you'll discover that this is a tiny percentage (11.7%) of the Muslim world.
Iran does not represent the Muslim world, you'll discover that this is a tiny percentage (4.4%) of the Muslim world.
Bangladesh does not represent the Muslim world, you'll discover that this is a tiny percentage (10.4%) of the Muslim world.
Yemen does not represent the Muslim world, you'll discover that this is a tiny percentage (1.6%) of the Muslim world.
Turkey does not represent the Muslim world. If you do the research, you'll discover that this is a tiny percentage (5.0%) of the Muslim world.

OK, I get it - you are saying that I cannot criticize the actions of Muslims in Muslim countries because no Muslim country represents 100% of all Muslims.

So Amy, besides cursing at me to wake up (which I will never do, at least how I interpret your definition to wake up and hate another), what is your solution?

I've offered mine... education and economic opportunity. It worked in bringing other backwards countries up to Western standards. Of course, people can't go offering education and economic opportunity and hatred of a nation's religion. What would that accomplish?

Yes, I am sure that are many terrible stories such as you provided but sharing them doesn't stop them from happening. In fact, such stories are reminiscent of the Jewish boogie man stories used by European anti-semitic groups. So far your message (at least my interpretation) is hate all Muslims and make as many others feel the same.

Amy,

You do conveniently leave out the movement in Islam to reform, just as Christianity reformed during the Reformation.

You are correct (and I was aware) that the Quran frequently contradicts itself. Just as the Old Testament contradicts the New Testament. These contradictions are what is pushing the reforms in Islamic circles.

I'm sure you'll point out that these reforms are being subdued by Islamic governments (which they are). But wasn't the Reformation also subdued by the Catholic church?

I know that comparing Islam and Christianity are two different religions but I can see certain parallels. If Islam were to go through such a reformation would it be to the benefit of all (of course, that depends on its reformation).

Rather than spewing hate, understanding and encouragement would be more beneficial...

And question all others, as what is your solution?

Hard to say, as change is difficult. Just hope that there will be more people like Buleihi, and less like the corrupt Arafat. Change is perhaps slowly, slowly coming even to SA. Perhaps Islam was once a cutting edge ideology, but since the defeat by Charles Martel, and since the thoughts of Al-Ghazali (there is no cause and effect, only prayer) almost 1000 years ago became dominant, it has been, for the most part, stuck in time.

But for now your best solution is offer hate and intolerance?

And criticize regimes that do the same?

And wonder why I question?

I doubt education would work, as long as islam is the official, state sponsored ideology that cannot be challenged, criticized or contradicted. See what happened in the soviet union, where communism is the official, state sponsored ideology that cannot be challenged, criticized or contradicted.

wow, and here I thought I was being all ironical an' stuff.

So here's the short answer... while some or possibly many muslim don't take out the sword, they also don't repudiate it. They prefer to be rabbits guarded by their masters. It does only take one of those masters to find a guy [or increasingly a girl] to walk into the midst of a crowded bazaar and blow themselves up, killing as many brothers and sisters and their children as is possible. People who may even follow their same religion.

Sound like you can change things by sending them to school? The very same schools that they have destroyed, with the very same teachers they have killed?

Some of these theocratic countires were amazingly cosmopolitan some years ago under secular leadership, but it didn't last, and their new leaders will not have any of that modernity you are selling.

but they are more than happy to have you immobilize western thought with pretzel logic and self hatred...

"Oh, the Christians did..."

Uhm huh... how many hundred years ago? Before the age of reason?

THIS is the main difference. Even IF civilizations were at one time similar in their religious ways... lets say around 1000AD... I think it is reasonable to say that the Jews and Christians moved foreward from there. Especially in the last 250 years or so, there has been a LOT of change.

How much have the islamists changed, or indeed WANTED to change?

They have not.

But they are more than willing to take advantage of our modern weaponry, and circumvent our modern ways of thought.

Because it's really easy to take over other people who don't believe in violence when you yourself do. They don't lift a finger when you are killing them.

so what do we do? We could invite them to bring their religion forward, like a reformation. But at the least we MUST force them to accept the laws of lands they decide to live in, and protect those that abide by those laws.

I dunno, laws like you can't try to kill your daughter just because she likes a nice boy that you don't WHEN SHE'S 22 years old! Laws like women have the right to vote. Laws like you can't have more than one wife?

Laws like you should be able to have the religion you wish to have?

Paula,

When a huge percentage of the Muslim population (at least outside the US, not sure about here) supports Jihad, there has to be a wake-up call first. Since the actions of the "radicals" are irrationally violent, that wake-up has to be in the form of severe, unrepentant, unstoppable violence.

This is how we saved literally millions of lives in WWII, when the Japanese were just as fanatical in their beliefs (though they were somewhat more rational, just toweringly arrogant) as the current Islamic Fundamentalists. We showed them that continuing to fight was a pointless task.

We probably don't have to drop nukes today because our munitions are so much more effective due to being highly accurate, but if we keep pussy-footing around, it's going to end up there.

Because it's really easy to take over other people who don't believe in violence when you yourself do. They don't lift a finger when you are killing them.

That pretty much is what happened to the "dangerous" Muslims of Bosnia. Of course, they were thought to be the cause of the rise of Islam in Europe so let's turn a blind eye until - shock and horror - the worst massacre of humanity in Europe since the Holocaust occurred.

See where spewing hatred and intolerance gets people?

I'm saying that I can agree that what goes on in certain countries isn't morally right. But I can also say that blaming it on a religion is wrong. Please keep in mind it's people who kill/abduct/torture/behead other people. And usually it's to keep another person subjected but this happens worldwide throughout all cultures and religions. Hating a religious group only perpetuates the violence.

Wow, so now bombing Japanese civilian cities into oblivion was the best case scenario. I'm opposed to human suffering of all kinds, and just see hate speech for what it is.

As bad as Bosnia was, what would have been your solution to the East Pakistan/West Pakistan conflict? Or to Iran/Iraq war? Or to Iraq/Kuwait war? Or to Turkish/Kurdish war? Or the elimination of the Armenians from Turkey? Wow, the only way solution was to kill millions of people in the name of islam, after the Holocaust occured?

PS
I don't see too much concern for the killings in Sudan, since the Turkish PM said that muslims are incapable of violence. So what's happening there isn't really happening. Nothing to see, keep the line moving.

Wow, the only way solution was to kill millions of people in the name of islam, after the Holocaust occured?

I'm not quite understanding your question. I'm not Miss Fix It so I have no solutions for every genocide that took place. But I do know that the causes for most genocides are not religious in nature but rather the escalating presence of one group determining that other as dangerous, different, or "the other"; while taking over "the other's" property, rights and lives.

Usually this all starts with a bit of hate speech.

Excellent taqqiya, Paula, A++.

Did I say I wasn't concerned about Sudan?

Sudan isn't on the radar of the west because it has nothing to offer the west (ie oil, nature resources). For much the same reason the Bosnian genocide was ignored too long.

It's all about education, economy and a bit of tolerance.

But obviously I'm on the wrong board and I realize that my ideas are pointless here.

Your ideas are pointless because you don't believe them, and people can tell.

Taqqiya? I've read the definition but don't see your comparison.

I've consistently expressed my intolerance for hate speech which is what this blog is promoting.

Basically the mantra is "let's all assume that all Muslims are the same. By doing so, let's hate all Muslims because they are all capable of evil acts because they are Muslim."The next step after hatred to see Muslims as not human and eventually, we'll be able to kill them because they're not fit to live because they're Muslim.

That's the logic that's led to most all (that I can think of) ethnic cleansings this world has ever seen. Not to mention the tactic that given rise to great racial disparities here and abroad.

Hate speech is hate speech and will lead to hate-filled actions.

Did you read the page I linked to, Paula? How about some quotes:

After all, 23% of the world's Muslims believe 9/11 was legitimate, from an Islamic point of view.

And there was no fear of posting comments in support:
One posting on the poll said: “I agree with suicide bombers. They should target Muslims too. They should also target those coward sleeping Muslims.”

Then this:
“I will not say it is suicide, nor condemn them, or say they are cowards, or the rest of that nonsense, because it is NOT suicide, it is a form of fighting that instils a great terror into the hearts of the koffar (emp. mine) (non-believers).”

This kind of thing, because of the high numbers who think like this, cannot be stopped by education, unless the entire education system that the young there are brought up in were to be taken over and revamped from the ground up - which would actually give some credence to the people calling us Imperialists. The only way to give this kind of ideology is to give it a slap in the face that says, "The ONLY result you're going to get from engaging in terrorism is dead".

Hate speech is hate speech and will lead to hate-filled actions.
Let's hope more there are more Buleihis than Paulas in the future, since Paula sounds like Robert Mugabe: Zimbabwe is perfect, the ideology is perfect, only the evil west is to blame for all our problems. Of course, Botswana did not follow this model, and is now a better place to live than its neighbor.

You know you have a real intellectual heavyweight on your hands when every other posting decries "hate speech", as if it were a legitimate argument (and not the latest form of newspeak-propaganda used to brow-butt the rest of us common-sensors into submission).

These people want to kill us (and what's crazy is they don't mince words about it). Bottom line. Those that don't, would do zero to save your ass or mine from our throats being cut.

The Crusades were a direct response to Islamic aggression, murder, rapes, torture, land-grabs and conversion. Islamic ideology is behind some of the most dreadful occurrences in human history (next to maybe communism - another religious ideology).

I'm not making this stuff up. That's just how they roll... Two books to add to your reading list: The Force of Reason and The Rage and The Pride by Oriana Fallaci.

But according to you, Islam deserves our tolerance (or something) lest we all be called "hate speakers".

Paula, get a grip.

(Muslims who reject the Quaran and Islam as it is referenced therein -there are those out there- practice teachings like Sufism - which is a spiritual non Quaranic theology derived from pre-Islamic teachings. They don't demand conversion or blow themselves up either...I can distinguish, the difference, can you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism).

Considering your site was mostly propaganda, I linked over to the actual article from Oct 18 2008 in the Sunday Mercury online newspaper published in the Midlands, UK.

This is what your site left out:
"Others argued that suicide bombings were unacceptable, with one contributor saying: “I don’t regard people who blow themselves up in market places packed with non-combatants as legitimate Mujahideen."

“I don’t believe it is responsible to kill a handful of bystanders for every enemy soldier killed. Finally, I don’t believe suicide bombing is Islamic.”

Shouiab Ahmed Mirpuri, General Secretary of the Green Lane Mosque, which was featured in last year’s Channel 4 Dispatches investigation into radical preachers, believes the key to tackling extremism is education.

“Suicide bombing is not allowed in Islam,” he told the Sunday Mercury.

“Killing innocent people is not within the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. Murder is haraam (forbidden), suicide is haraam, it is all against Islam.

“I’m really shocked by this poll, which suggests there are a lot of people agreeing with suicide bombings.

“These people have clearly not been educated properly. Some may have been brainwashed into thinking this is acceptable.
“We should be living in the UK in peace and harmony. Even thinking about these things, or saying suicide attacks are okay is really disturbing.

“At Green Lane we are ensuring people are educated inside the Masjid (mosque).

“We have to show young people that this has nothing to do with Islam. Obviously we don’t know that people are thinking individually, but as a community we stand against suicide bombings.

“If people are thinking like this it is very dangerous for all communities and we must teach them to follow only the Koran.
“I will be raising this poll and this topic in Friday sermons.”

http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2008/10/18/young-midland-muslims-support-suicide-bombings-new-poll-reveals-66331-22065097/

Don't allow yourself to become brainwashed, think critically and for yourself. Anyone can and will manipulate statements to their benefit, it's called the use of logic. And logic has been around quite a long time. My hope is that more people will use logic rather than blindly believing propaganda.

Very easy to belittle, put down and degrade a voice of opposition to your propaganda.

If you notice, I've only include the rest of the article Wayne chose to quote from. Rather than just include the scary statements, I've included the part where someone was arguing against such statements.

I never even read the article until Wayne linked to it today. I too have read the Quran (but not the Hadiths, which I will).

"Denounce me for advocating freedom if you can, and I will bear your curse with a better resignation."
Victoria Woodhu

Yes, Paula, I believe what you write. I also believe the Turkish PM is serious, when he says that muslims are incapable of violence. No amount of education can overcome such taqqiya. If he'd put as much effort into...but what's the use. I've never seen muslims in a muslim majority country protest against islam. As your quotes show, if people base decisions on how they interpret the koran, then not much is gonna happen, in a positive way. It's very easy to refer decisions to what some guy said 1500 years ago, but that's Al-Ghazali's influence for you: the only cause and effect is prayer.

Paula, as usual for someone who is so focused on minutiae that they can't or won't see the bigger picture, you missed the whole point of my posted link.

23% of those polled DID think suicide bombings and other forms of Jihad were legitimate! THAT is the only thing that really matters there. The rest is just frosting on the cake.

And in case you are math challenged, that means an estimated 230 MILLION Muslims think that way.

Paula, you ignorant slut!

There's plenty of economic opportunity. Osama bin Laden is a multi-millionaire, Saudi Arabia is flush with cash. Lebanon sits on some of the finest land in central Asia.

There's plenty of education available too. Plenty of educated people in Iran.

The problem isn't the people, it's the religion.

You want the solution? Ann Coulter already said it:

"Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."

There will be no peace so long as Communism and Islamism are considered serious modes of governance. Once those are eliminated, the necessity for war will almost certainly go away.

it is interesting to me, Paula, that you don't believe that the muslims will do what they say they will do.

As if someohow you know them better than they know themselves.

There are passages in the scripture that require them to lie about their intentions to outsiders... so it is easy for them to say "this is the religion of peace..." When in fact it is peace through Submission.

This seems to indicate a certain moral ambiguity about how you feel about everyone but yourself. If islam is as nice as you say, then what happened in Darfur? Why do you believe that the US was the only one who could stop that, while the United Nations stood by and did nothing? Don't THEY represent humanity? SECULAR HUMANITY?

If this shouldn't be a question about religion at all, then what of a group that is NON religious? Aren't they on the hook for anything?

You feel entirely morally superior, because you are far away and have never had to deal with anything. Like having your children disappear with a muslim spouse, only to see your daughter come back in a buhrka and married to some 50 year old guy who has already impregnated her.

You feel that for your sin of being born in a western country, your guilt requires you to roll over in the face of people who have been supposedly wronged by... someone. Maybe it was your ancestors.

AS IF those in muslim countries couldn't leverage their oil wealth to make their countries the best places in the world to live, with the most forward thinking cultures, the best science, the nicest places.

You major failure is to think outside the proverbial box. The reason you actually DO have to wory about a religion and not a country is that religion is based on the idea of a theocracy, a "Caliphate" where all the believers would come together to form a much larger government SINCE the followers are part of MANY different countries. This isn't a nationalistic idea on the part of islamists, they want it to be worldwide. They wish to take thigs over from within.

In this way they are VERY intelligent. The leaders wish their followers to remain unlearned, move to many countries and assert their interests in sharia law.

And make LOTS of children. Take it over from within, and the patient will be too weak to resist.

Especially, you should try wearing a buhrka, try speaking when spoken to, try never going out without a male relative. You are the one who is rolling over here...

My quote reflects my freedom.

Have you heard that one attracts more flies with honey than vinegar? Perhaps if comments weren't filled with such vitriol, I'd be more willing to consider your point of view.

If you go back and reread my posts, you'll see my issue is the lumping of all Muslims together because doing so (I fear) leads to intolerance, racial hatred, profiling, and racially motivated crimes against innocent people (yes, Muslims are people, they're motivated in the same ways all people are).

Of course, anyone can read for what they want. There are just as many positive verses from the Quran. If I want to read for the negative, then I shall. Just as if you choose to read from the positive.

I doubt that many of the suicide bombers have actually read the Quran. The majority are probably brainwashed into committing their crimes (yes, crimes, I'm not saying their behavior is acceptable). Just as David Koresh brainwashed the Branch Davidian, just as you try to brainwash anyone who stumbles upon your blog to hate all Muslims.

And Wayne,
"Radicalised youths from the Midlands are among those to have posted messages backing terrorists on the www.ummah.com forum.
One member had started the survey by asking users: “Do you agree with suicide bombings?”
Of those who responded, an alarming 24 per cent said they supported suicide attacks like the 7/7 tube bombings in London and the 9/11 atrocity in America."

This poll was conducted in the Midlands of the U.K., one cannot apply the percentage of "radicalised youths from the Midlands" to all Muslims worldwide. Doing so is not statistically accurate as "radicalised youths from the Midlands" do not represent a cross-section of Muslims.

Just as I wouldn't want to be represented by a group of skinheads regarding my feelings towards racial equality; I'm sure that the majority of Muslims disagree with the "radicalised youths from the Midlands."

By jumping onto a weak statistic you've exemplified my point that the blog entry is just instigating hatred of a entire group of people. Do any of you know a Muslim, talked to one, discussed your fears with them? Somehow I doubt it.

Brian, how different are you from the stereotype of Muslims you hate?

First you have to degrade me in a way that would only apply to a woman.

Then you go onto quote Anne Coulter which is basically what you presume the Muslims plan to do to the west.

So what you say is okay as long as the West does it?

Right.

Wayne,

How wrong you are...

All male member of my sister in law's family were killed because they were Muslim and male. She watched her husband die by having his face smashed into a brick wall.

Her mother has had to return to Bosnia to identify possible family members from mass graves.

My husband was put in a prison labor camp and made to dig trenches all day and only fed a can of beans for his effort. He was eventually taken to the front lines, only to be shot (he did survive).

I could go on...

All this happened because in Bosnia people decided that the Bosnian-Muslims were "different." So their differences caused people to hate them which led to the largest ethnic cleansing in Europe since the Holocaust. I am against anyone who tries to degrade an entire people, because I cannot stand by and watch similar atrocities occur. Of course, you'll say I'm lying, etc but it's very easy to forget there is an actual human on the other side of this computer, just as all Muslims are human too.

"Have you heard that one attracts more flies with honey than vinegar? Perhaps if comments weren't filled with such vitriol, I'd be more willing to consider your point of view."

This is the equivilent of: "Look, if the firefighter had just told me nicely my ass would get singed if I stayed in the burning apartment, I would of gladly left...I just needed a little convincing is all - but I didn't listen because I think shouting is rude..." Agree or disagree, the consequences are yours.

"Of course, anyone can read for what they want. There are just as many positive verses from the Quran. If I want to read for the negative, then I shall. Just as if you choose to read from the positive."

Hey, I am sure I could find a few agreeable phrases in Mein Kampf - but that doesn't mean anything necessarily positive about the book or the ideology. You don't get to cherry pick, context is key.

"By jumping onto a weak statistic you've exemplified my point that the blog entry is just instigating hatred of a entire group of people. Do any of you know a Muslim, talked to one, discussed your fears with them? Somehow I doubt it."

Oy.

Best friend from college was born in Iran. He immigrated here with his family, and they all left their religion behind....nice people. Lots of brutal stories though, especially the oppression of women.

I believe you, Paula. What you say is okay, as long as it's done in the name of islam. Darfur, Saddam's brutality, everything evil is done by the "west". Nothing at all is the fault of islam. How could it be? You believe it to be perfect, and anything else is just intolerance. I don't doubt your beliefs at all. Islam cannot be criticized, since pakistanis, saudis, yemenis...etc. do not completely represent islam 100%. Where are all the muslims who disagree with the radicalised youths? Probably most germans didn't think too much of adolf, but where were they?

PS
You are no different than the stereotypical "westerners" you love to hate.

"I doubt that many of the suicide bombers have actually read the Quran. " Paula.

Why do you think this? The Quran is what their Madrasah's teach. That they don't teach anything else is the problem.

So I ask you again, what leads you to believe that they won't do exactly as they say they will?

One thing you should remember about large groups, is that it only takes a small number of them who are violent to cause terror if the rest do nothing against it.

ask Theo Van Gogh's family about that.

You don't need to worry about billion muslims that don't wish you harm, only the millions that do. because they are enough.

their silent majority will do nothing to protect you.

"I doubt that many of the suicide bombers have actually read the Quran. " Paula.

Why do you think this? The Quran is what their Madrasah's teach. That they don't teach anything else is the problem.

Others just recite the Quran in Arabic, a language they do not know, and do not know what it actually means.

Surprisingly, I actually can be backed up by Amy. However, my main point (which you also refuse to acknowledge) is that this blog entry promotes hatred.

The comment "And I don't "hate" anyone" is followed by "Let me know where the honey is in that so I can be a good little dhimmi and lap it up as I watch Europe become Eurabia."

If that's not hate speech what is?

Is the following link what you want to happen in the US?http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/8234004.Girl_attacked_burned_and_robbed_in_broad_daylight/

Because this is what your blog is promoting, the targeting Muslim people.

"it seems to assume that all Muslims would agree that stoning is appropriate (which is not true). "

A. "All Muslims" is a disengenuous term. When you're talking about a religion that numbers over a billion, of course there are going to be those who are willing to ignore or overlook the parts that they don't like. And yes you'll have people who are only Muslim because their parents were, and they've never read the Koran themselves.

But with that said, what does it matter that every single individual Muslim is not in 100% complete accord with every single line of the Koran? You have whole COUNTRIES that ARE in accord legislatively, culturally, and brook 0 dispute from individual persons within their society or outsiders.
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"Stonings, burnings, be headings were also a part of medieval Christian Europe. These brutal executions are more a product of a culture than a culture's religion."

B. This is true. But notice you have to reach all the way back to Medieval Europe for a similar comparison.
C. The religion of which they were a part said "turn the other cheek", "love thy enemy" and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Islam...not so much.
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"Muslims and send them to the gas chambers, like the Nazis did to the Jews?" Can't ONE person opposed to opposing Islam stop comparing its opponents to Nazis and the Muslims to Jews? Wow that was a mouthful. "The rocks shall cry, there is a jew behind me, come and kill him." Guess where that comes from, hint, it wasn't said or written in German. Idiot.
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The penalties used in Islamic nations are the penalties decreed BY ISLAM.

Want to know the big difference between Islam & Christianity, here are two stories from the different books:

There was a woman caught in the act of adultery, dragged into the street, as _____ was passing by, a mob was preparing to kill her, and _____ brought silence to the crowd, and said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." The crowd dispersed, and _____ said to the woman, "Go and sin no more."

Now the other one:

A woman came before ____ and said to him, "I have committed adultery, and am now with child, what must I do." And _____ said to her, return to me when the child is born. This the woman did, and he said to her, return to me when the child is weened from the breast. This she did, and ____ had her buried in the sand, and stoned to death, after which ____ forebade the desecration of her corpse.

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Guess which example is from Islam?

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Paula, it would be nice if we could blame simple "Desperation" but the major leaders and perpetrators of terrorist attacks have been from the privileged elite.

And as to your second argument, that they don't have a constitutional guarantee to freedom of religion, well I'll just let you think about that one. Um, duh, their religion prohibits such a thing.
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You talk about economic opportunity, but many of these countries have rich natural resources, and could easily have vast wealth, or as in the case of Qatar & Kuwait, already do. So what? The problem isn't their poverty, it is their beliefs, which are not compatible with the idea of living along side your own.

Either you convert, or you die. The ONLY thing holding back resurgent Islamic wars to force conversion is the fact that those nations put themselves into the ground, fell far behind the west, and have stayed there ever since. Eternal war is their doctrine, and yes, these countries DO have schools, and what they teach in those schools is more of that same doctrine.

You don't have to HATE Muslims, zeal in any regard, without a guiding wisdom, is nothing but a runaway horse. However what you better do, if you don't want your great granddaughter in a harem, is pay attention to the hazard that the doctrine of Islam poses to our present way of life.

The implied statement, comparing it to the medieval Jewish bogeyman, is that said stories of Islamic brutality are false, the fact is that they are anything but.

It is very real. You live in your comfortable little bubble, but get out of it sometime and travel to said countries, and you'll quickly find they are anything but false.

And before you ask, been there, DONE THAT.

I do hope Islam reforms itself. But its had 1400 years to do so, and haven't yet.

And by the way, there is such a thing as to much tolerance.

If you want to decry hate speech, look no further than the Koran.
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"Very easy to belittle, put down and degrade a voice of opposition to your propaganda. "

Yes it is. You've made it ridiculously easy with your total display of blindness and ignorance about the subject, combined with a level of childish idealism that most of us left behind in Middle School.

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"Perhaps if comments weren't filled with such vitriol, I'd be more willing to consider your point of view."

I should think that being kind and considerate would reflect a serious mental defect. A gentle voice in the face of cruelty, violence, and calls for genocide and the use of force to achieve religious unity, would be a sign of utter madness.

Forget the tone for a moment, and check the citations directly from the Koran itself. No, there are NOT just as many positive verses in the Koran. OBVIOUSLY you've NEVER READ THE BOOK. There are some passages worth mentioning early on, but they are put aside in favor of much more aggressive and violent ones later on. This is...surprise surprise, in time with the "prophet" increasing his power and authority. The more powerful he got, the less diplomatic he became, until you have the present state of things.

Paula, you deserved it.

Look, I'd love to have a peaceful relationship with Islam. It's not possible. Muslims have been attacking my people for 1300 years. Invading the land of my ancestors wasn't enough for them either. They had to start shit with America too.

Oh, you didn't know that, did you? Yeah, Islam's been at war with America since the 1790s. Why? We're not muslim, and they want us to give them tribute or convert.

Fuck that.

And you're right, my position makes me just like them, except that my position is purely defensive, which makes it completely different.

When it's me versus you, I pick me. When it's us versus islam, I pick us.

Like I said before, peace will only come once Marx and Mohammed have been completely discredited, and their teachings lie on the ash heap of history. When nobody can talk of Das Kapital and the Quran and be considered serious, peace will have won.

Paula, Muslims are my enemy, and I cannot kill my enemy without hating them. Therefore, I hate muslims because I know they are the cause of 90 percent of the current world conflicts. And they think it is ok to cut people's heads off and videotape it, to fly planes into buildings and kill thousand of people they do not know, even fellow muslims. The only way to co-exist is indeed to kill them before they kill us.

Paula, today, in the 21st century, women & girls are being stoned to death by Islamic clerics in the name of Islam, in front of huge crowds of cheering Muslims. And you think the real hatred is coming from Amy Alkon?

"Look at Islamic Spain. It wasn't until the Catholic Inquisition that people were brutalized"

That reveals such ignorance of history on your part that it's hard to take anything you say seriously. Here's an excellent scholarly antidote to that fairy tale:

http://www.mmisi.org/ir/41_02/fernandez-morera.pdf

You're not helping your case by bringing Victoria Woodhull into it. Her views on free love & other things were bold even by modern standards, never mind those of the mid 1800s. But she was unafraid to proclaim them loudly all over the Deep South & elsewhere. And instead of being stoned to death by outraged Baptists, she died peacefully in her bed at the age of 89, with admirers from coast to coast. If she'd been born on Iran 150 years later, she would've been executed before she even reached puberty. She fought against sexism & discrimination in Christian society as boldly as any woman ever, so I doubt she'd be making any excuses for Muslim savagery.

The only reason that any Bosnians are still alive & free to practice their religion in their own country is because the Great Satan led the way in coming to their rescue. With the exception of some aid from Turkey, Muslim countries did bupkis to help their Muslim brothers. And the only thanks the US got from the Muslim world was 9/11.

ya, it's amazing how the f'ing muslims conveniently forget Bosnia, as well as their supporters.

Understand that Islam is also the religion that gave us the Taj Mahal.

Also notice that the Taj Mahal construction began in 1632.

Do the google for the "sikh india islam" and note the dates. Maybe you want to look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_Sikhism

3 things paula

1. Yes the Taj Mahal was commisioned by a muslim ruler - but he had to hire an archetect who wasnt muslim. And it wasnt for lack of muslim architects, oh wait, that exactly what it was.

2. Who in the hell is it hate speech to say you find the execution of a rape victim by stoning horrifying? Is saying 'hello' also hate speech?

3. You say or male in-laws were killed for beign muslim, sorry o hear that, bu it suggests you or at the very least your husband is also muslim.

SO tell you what - why dont you, as a muslim(or at the very least an individulrealted to muslims) got to Saudi Arabia, or Quatar, or Iran and protest in public as an unacompanied woman not wearing a burka the actions commited by individual muslims that you yourself have said you believe are crimes.

If after you trip you can honestly say you were treated better by them the you were by us(The worst thing us having done is call you an idiot) I promise to never say anything bad about islam again - and Im sure some of the oter peopel on this blog will take that bet as well.

What do you say? You willing to risk your life on your assumptions of the goodnesss of the majority of muslims the same way you seem to be willing to risk ours?

Not true, luj. I called her an ignorant slut.

Yea but thats a clasic SNL skit quote, quotes dont count as inults - Its a rule

Unless the target doesn't recognize it. And clearly this one is humor impaired enough.

Paula, here's your solution:

1. Educate yourself and use your voice! This is what everyone on here disagreeing with you is doing. We've read up on the atrocities of Islam and now trying to educate others about it. Once you've educated yourself, tell other about the horrors of Islam and how it differs from most other religions (as previously outlined in this thread). Convince them that they to need to pick up the Quran and educate themselves on Islam by researching exactly how many Muslims vocally support these acts of terrorism (it is likely that many more non-vocally support such acts but wouldn't say so for fear of arrest/deportation) before they make their final judgment on the religion. Elect government officials who see Islam for what it is, rather than those who look at it through rose-colored glasses. Continue to keep yourself informed and pass what you've learned onto others, because it is only way Americans will ever realize how horrible this religion is.

2. Stop admitting Muslims to the United States. Kick out non-citizen Muslims the first time they break the law. This makes it harder for them to get into the United States and commit acts of terrorism. We're stuck with the citizen Muslims and the law-abiding non-citizen Muslims who are already here, but I'm guessing they're more assimilated then the non-citizens who are breaking the law because "but its legal to do that in Pakistan/Iran/Saudi Arabia/wherever I come from (and I don't feel like following your country's rules)."

3. Boycott all countries where Islam is the official religion (though they're so unproductive about all they have in the way of 'products' is oil, which we - the entire world - need to find an alternative for). Make it illegal for U.S.-based companies to sell part of their company to Muslims living in these countries (normally I'm against the government telling private companies what to do, but when money goes to these places there is just too big of a chance of that money funding terrorism, and without government intervention, American businesses will continue to fund terrorist acts against their own people). Less money going into these countries will probably make it harder for individuals like Osama bin Laden (whose family owns shares in Boeing and Microsoft) to finance acts of terrorism in the United States.