Doesn't a gasoline tax already tax you on vehicle usage? I mean, really directly, no need for a monitoring device?

Or am I somehow missing the point here (wouldn't be the first time)?

Oregon has been talking about this ever since hybrids showed up on the scene. They are very conflicted. On the one hand they want to force us to all ride bicycles, but they don't want to lose the gas tax money.

Oregon, for awhile, even increased the cost to register and license hybrids to make up for the lost gas tax. The global warming advocates pointed out that we should encourage hybrids, so they repealed the increased license and registration for hybrids.

However, the Dept of Transportation keeps talking about a mileage tax. The plan is to set up radio receivers all over the state and your mileage usage would be automatically uploaded whenever you passed on these things. Of course they rarely mention how hideously expensive this would be for taxpayers, ignoring the privacy issue.

Also, I think they are a little confused on how they would stick it to tourists driving through our state, since the tourists won't have the little black box.

Well, that's certainly a catchy blog post title. :)

Absurd!!! Wow, when will this silly crap stop???

Here is how it will play out if they do it.

Billions, perhaps hundreds of it, will be spent setting up these stations, manning or maintaining them, as well as paying the people that handle the readouts and data.

All at tax payer expense. Publicly, green advocates will applaud the measure.

Privately, some smart guy will come up with a device to block the signal transmission to or from your vehicle. This device will cost almost nothing, indeed in short order it will exist in software form, probably as a phone app.

Then vast numbers of people, including the green advocates, will buy this device regardless of its legal status, and the cost of those relay stations will never be made up.

Then 50 years down the road when everybody dependent on them for income or status is dead or retired on a public pension for life, it will be quietly abandoned as unfeasible...or if it is an election year, cited as huge savings in a very public manner to illustrate how smart the next new politician is.

We already have a tax based on miles driven ... they're called toll roads. If these taxes were used strictly to maintain the roads then I'd be for it (try driving the sorry excuses for roads in Michigan.) However, I'm willing to bet it would go into the general fund.

Driving in Michigan will certainly tell you how good your shock absorbers are. :D

I'm with Old RPM Daddy - we're already being taxed on our usage. If the government wants us to drive less, giving us an alternative mode of transportation would be nice. There's a bus system in my town that goes nowhere, takes forever to get there, shuts down at 7pm, and doesn't run on Sunday. How the hell is that helpful?

Let me get this straight.

On the one hand, government has been mandating that car manufacturers increase the mileage of their cars to decrease the amount of gasoline being burned.

On the other hand, government makes money on every gallon of gasoline sold and, in order to make more money, needs more gasoline to be sold.

And then the government went out and gave tax breaks (and, in California, commuter lane privileges) to people who purchases hyper-efficient hybrids.

To top it off, the government gave tax money to cities to install bicycle lanes on major throroughfares throughout the city in order to encourage people to ride bicycles and drive less.

And now the government wants to impose a mileage tax to make up for the gasoline tax revenues lost because people are driving less and buying more fuel-efficient vehicles?

THUD! THUD! THUD! is the sound as his head hits the brick wall repeatedly.

see the thing is, IIRC, the gas tax ISN'T indexed to inflation or anything, it has to be raised... so it's been 18.4 cents a gallon for close to 20 years, regardless of other factors... Factors Like: is that paying for the road system? Who pays and what/when are VERY clear for commercial vehicles, for private vehicles? Not so much. Do we pay enough now? And beofre you start 'yer bellyachin' what do the bridges in your town look like? What does the interstate look like?

But. Taxing per gallon IS very close to a milage tax, so who are they kidding?

This is a lie pure and simple. If they need to raise the tax [and I think they do] then have the cajones to say so.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1054.html

Swiss, it's actually worse than that, because I don't know of any state that fences gas tax revenues for road maintenance anymore. It's more or less part of the general fund, to be dipped into as desired -- very commonly, mass transit projects are built and their operations subsidized out of gas tax revenue.

So yeah, that bridge doesn't get its proper maintenance because the money that would have paid for it got diverted to something else. So when the day comes that the state inspector condemns the bridge, what do they do? Hey, go to your friendly Congressman and get an earmark! That's a big part of the problem: state legislators feel free to abscond with gas tax revenues because they assume that any time a road situation gets bad enough to create a public outcry, they can get Uncle Sugarfed to pay for it.

(Of course, the Fed never giveth with one hand without taking-awayeth with the other... one of the reasons the state can't pay for that new bridge is because the federal government's environmental, OSHA, and Davis-Bacon Act regs have jacked the cost up by about 1000%.)

Some oddities here.

The proposed plan here is to install expensive and complicated equipment in every vehicle that would record and report its use and position and at frequent intervals.

We already have a highly precise mileage gauge in every car. It's called an "odometer." It would cost almost nothing to read it as part of your annual safety inspection.

I wonder why they would want to load all that tracking gear in my car. It can't be for the reason given, because the reason given is absurd.

"It would cost almost nothing to read it as part of your annual safety inspection."

What annual safety inspection?

see the thing is, IIRC, the gas tax ISN'T indexed to inflation or anything, it has to be raised... so it's been 18.4 cents a gallon for close to 20 years, regardless of other factors...

Take a look at the map. The fed may only do 18.4. The state levies on top of it.

I have a positive attitude about the future. I am positive we are screwed blue and tattooed.

The proposal I heard - I believe just at the state level - was that the miles would be read at the smog test. Easy. Cheap.

one of the reasons the state can't pay for that new bridge is because the federal government's environmental, OSHA, and Davis-Bacon Act regs have jacked the cost up by about 1000%. - Dave

Yep. Saw an interesting factoid about a long running project to replace a bridge (I think). The current bridge was built late 50s/ early 60s. The project has already cost more (include inflation adjustment) and already taken longer and nothing but studies and designs have been done than the original did to total complete.

kenmce:

"It would cost almost nothing to read it as part of your annual safety inspection."

Matt:

What annual safety inspection?

Hi Matt,

in my state you are required to get a variety of stickers and do-dads if you want to drive on the public roads. There is a mandatory yearly safety inspection, and also smog testing. They could easily throw in one more thing while you're there, and then there would be little risk to your privacy. If the state never sees your car this wouldn't work.

what do the bridges in your town look like? What does the interstate look like?

Great, actually. When you hear politicians and chicken littles complaining about collapsing infrastructure, they are really complaining about the northeast and states like New York which redirected infrastructure funds to social programs.

Out here in the mountain west, our infrastructure in generally up-to-date.

"We already have a tax based on miles driven ... they're called toll roads. If these taxes were used strictly to maintain the roads then I'd be for it (try driving the sorry excuses for roads in Michigan.) However, I'm willing to bet it would go into the general fund."

AllenS. - Not only do they go into the general fund; but a big chunk of those tolls (at least here in NJ) go to pay for the workers (and, of course, their benefits like pensions!) who collect those tolls. On some toll roads there is also the pain of sitting in a traffic jam which is caused by the toll booths while we all sit in line to pay the "road tax."

So, we will have a gas tax, a road tax (i.e., tolls), and finally a mileage tax - A triple tax, that makes three strikes; best get out and walk before they start a "shoe" tax!

dunno where you live Joe, but Colo. has 124 bridges rated "Poor", which means things are falling off them, so that isn't a maint. issue anymore, they need to be rebuilt. That means there are far more heading towards 'poor' because they haven't been kept up with. I haven't kept up with how many are on federal roads, but I know that many are...

here is more info:
http://www.inside-lane.com/2009/09/11/where-is-colorados-auto-registration-fee-hike-going-take-a-tour-of-the-states-poor-rated-bridges-your-money-will-replace/