Well, at least Dems don't run on a platform of fictional "family values." In his defense, Weiner didn't do anything illegal, just dumb. Besides this incident (and the other 5 women he reportedly has sexted with in the last 3 years) he has actually seemed like one of the more no-BS politicians in Washington -- and these incidents have nothing to do with his job, so I still consider him one of the better public servants, if not such a great husband.

On a related topic, I think John Edwards probably didn't break the letter of the law, but did violate the spirit of it. People weren't writing him huge checks to protect his secret mistress just because he has a purty smile. Whether you publicly donate to a politician's campaign, or give him a private gift to pay off his mistress, you expect some level of access in return....

As I was getting ready to go with Gregg to this "Justified" thing, I heard Wolf Blitzer talking about Weiner and how, when people lie to him, they usually twist their head a bit, etc., but how this guy showed none of that. There are family values and then there are human values, and people tend to be a bit naive about exactly how much politician (of any stripe) means "LIAR."

And if you're as big an utter ass as Weiner is -- public figure, texting stranger girls on Twitter and then lying when caught (no, THAT's not gonna come out in 12 hours or two days)...how horrible that you are in a position of power.

I am not defending Weiner, or Lee, but I think there are nuances to the stupidity.

Wiener was especially stupid since a) this was more flirtation / cybersex / masturbation than anything to be consumated, and yet, it had the same career threatening implications as Lee's photos, and then b) he used twitter where a solitary "DM" is all that's between a private pubic message and a public pubic message.

On the other hand, that people do stupid things for sex is not unusual in our species. And it probably is the case that the drive to become a congressman in the first place probably predicts a narcissism and predilection for obtaining sex, sex, sex. You're much more knowledgeable about evolutionary biology and psychology than I, but this almost seems like expected behavior.

And yet, I've always hated the threat of the "permanent file" that is going to follow me around, first in grade school, than to college, to employers, etc., and how I have altered my behavior in truly lousy ways out of fear of that permanent file.

If Weiner had done all of this unmarried, and not lied about it, I would still say he was extremely stupid for doing this across twitter. But that's about it. Similar for Lee.

I agree with Amy about the disturbing aspect. Further, it's disturbing in a bread and circuses aspect. There are huge fiscal problems going on and this sideshow is not worth paying any attention to.

So Larry Craig taps his foot under a stall and people scream for his head but Weiner sends pictures of his dick to various females and it's okay because he's still a good public servant? Uuuuuh no. He engaged in illicit behaviour and then he tried to cover it up. That is NOT my definition of a good public servant. Part of being in those positions is leading by example. It entirely unacceptable for ANY poltician to behave in such a manner while they are suppossed to be serving in the publics best interest.

"Well, at least Dems don't run on a platform of fictional "family values."

So what your saying is the Dems are AGAINST family values?
Bullshit. It's either okay or it's not. If it's okay for a Dem to behave in such a manner, then it should be okay for a Republican to act similarly too without everyone calling for his resignation.

Liars are best avoided.

The Congress will, if it smart, expel this guy. He's from a fairly safe Democratic district, and NY has a Democrat for governor. I don't think the "most ethical Congress ever" wants to be defined by Rangel and Weiner.

Or maybe they don't even care to fake it.

"Well, at least Dems don't run on a platform of fictional "family values."

So what your saying is the Dems are AGAINST family values? Bullshit. It's either okay or it's not. If it's okay for a Dem to behave in such a manner, then it should be okay for a Republican to act similarly too without everyone calling for his resignation.

No, what he's saying is that since Democrats have no standards, they can't be called hypocrites for going against them.

Weiner is a sociopath. He needs to be someplace far away from other people so he doesn't do any REAL harm.

The most disturbing thing is that elected politicians in the public eye could be this fucking stupid.

Give how stupid the mjority of the voting public is, it aint all that suprising

Gotta agree with loojy on this one. What idiot thinks he could get away with this anyway? Yeah, some have, but sooner or later someone tells someone who tells someone, etc., and then it becomes a shitstorm! And if someone is THAT stupid and we the taxpayers are paying him?? I want him the hell out of office, pronto!

Just sayin'.

"No, what he's saying is that since Democrats have no standards, they can't be called hypocrites for going against them."

Ah yes. Of course. That 'splains it...
Well then it must be okay then.

OMG this is a HUGE scandal. OMG!
OMG, someone denies inappropriate behavior. OMG
OMG, since when are politicians supposed to be superior humans?

The only scandal here is the hypocrisy of all of you, you perfect specimens of humanity.

Thanks to the Puritan streak in American culture, voters here are just obsessed about the sex lives of their elected officials.

"Well, at least Dems don't run on a platform of fictional "family values."

They don't? Takes a village and all that shit are pretty much the same thing, simply vagued-up to appeal to college town liberals, who are very much upper-middle/middle class people.

Police departments can use female cops as "decoy prostitutes" to arrest johns trolling for sex.

So how did Weiner know he was not dealing with the Intelligence Service of Russia or China ?

That is the difference between elected officials and your average American like me: elected officials can be set up for blackmail.

FG,

The difference between us little people and politicians is it isn't our job to be held up to a higher standard.
If I had pulled something like this, I would certainly be fired from my lowly level non political job, because *I* am a reflection of my company and that is not the image they want to put out there. Weiner is a reflection of his state, whether he likes it or not. His position is an public one. He is suppossed to represent his state and the people in it. Is that what you want reprenting you?

Sure politicians are human, and allowed to make mistakes, but when they get caught, they should at least have the decency to own them instead of being asshats about it.

He's not just some low level intern, he's in CONGRESS, a high power position with a lot of responsbility. He's proven himself to be a liar more than anything. I think people could have forgiven him, or he could have at least minimized it, if he'd just owned it and apologized at the onset. But he didn't; He tried to cover it up instead. Do you really want a guy who sends pictures of his dick to random women and then LIES about it running your country?

"Thanks to the Puritan streak in American culture, voters here are just obsessed about the sex lives of their elected officials."

Our elected officials are the one that created that Puritan culture. We aren't the ones giving speeches preaching higher values and morals to the masses and then passing laws based on those beliefs.If they can't live up to thier own standards, they have no right holding the rest of America accountable either.

And again, they are public officials. Everything they do is being watched. If they don't want thier moves to be scrutinized, they shouldn't have picked such high profile careers. It comes with the territory.

One of my favorite quotes:

"Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue"

Francois de La Rochefoucauld

Nick. Are you serious? 5 DIFFERENT I.S. agents ranging over time blackmailing him? It would be a nice defense if the pictures hadn't actually come FROM him.
Besides, one can only be blackmailed if they are doing something that they shouldn't be and want to hide it. So what's your defense for that?

Sure they are better targets for blackmail being such public figures, but again, if they are keeping thier noses clean to begin with, what's there to blackmail them with?

People do not get the government they desire, they get the government they deserve.

For decades now we have not been electing people into office based principally upon their ethics, integrity, sense of honor and all around good character.

Instead we elect them based upon superficial features such as looks and who tells us the best story.

Take a wild guess what you obtain when these are your main criteria?… you get reasonably decent liars with lots of practice at walking the line between legal and criminal deceit who are good at leveraging their looks and charisma to get what they want.

Acting all shocked and appalled when you get what you paid for is rather foolish.

If you want more honest politicians then honestly and integrity should be your number one criteria when voting.

My favorite definition of Hypocrite

Hypocrite, n. One who, professing virtues that he does not respect, secures the advantage of seeming to be what he despises.

I'm thinking more of Eliot Spitzer and John Edwards really fitting this definition.

From my experience, I'd say that the politicians who AREN'T dirty old men are the exception.

Reality, I have been saying that since I was old enough to vote. I am with you 100%.

The problem lately is just like you say... people use things like Party affiliate, race, gender, and other superficial identifiers to vote instead of doing thier homework. They don't check thier political hopefuls voting records, public stances on issues their political hopeful voted on, attendance at hearings, the work they did in office at thier former position, and criminal history before voting. It's all a matter of public record. They decide they like someone and just go with it. Then, they wonder why their government is all screwed up.

Even after all that research though, a candidate can still end up revealing himself as an asshat after being elected. The problem is you don't know that someone is a dirty rotten liar until they do something that shows you they are. It's maddening. I just always assume that they ALL have shit to hide and they haven't been caught yet.

Sabrina Says:

"The problem is you don't know that someone is a dirty rotten liar until they do something that shows you they are."

While this is technically true, the point of doing all that research and setting up decent criteria isn't to totally eliminate the possibility that someone really isn't so great. The point is to push the odds more in your favor.

The same really goes for any interpersonal judgment. I wouldn't just loan my car keys to anyone who asked for them for example. There is a subset of people who have shown over time that they are responsible and trustworthy enough to earn that kind of trust from me.

The same goes for politicians. If they have a proven track record of doing things in an honorable way and following through with what they say, then there is at least a decent chance they will continue to do so.

Instead the public votes not on the truth, but based upon who tells them what they want to hear.

Needless to say it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you are basing your choice on who best tells you what you want to hear, the odds are you are voting for the person who is best at assessing what you want and just saying whatever that is regardless of their intentions to actually do it.

We vote in liars because honest people won't play that game. An honest person won't just tell you what you want to hear which is essentially political suicide in the modern game of politics.

When people start voting for the candidate who tells them the truth instead of the candidate who mimics their inner voice then we might start to have honest people in office. Until then I just expect more of the same.

I've always thought that desire for public office is a form of mental illness. So aberrant behavior shouldn't come as a surprise.

This is what Weiner had to say when asked if any of the recipients of his pecker photos were underage:

http://digg.com/news/politics/weiner_to_the_best_of_my_knowledge_they_were_all_adults

Wow. Think of all the times Amy has posted about teenagers getting nailed as sex offenders for some innocent sexting. Just a tiny drop of discretion could have saved this guy a lot of trouble.

Or even a tiny drop of loyalty to his wife.

Sabrina: Did you think I was defending him ?

Sabrina: "...one can only be blackmailed if they are doing something they shouldn't be and want to hide it."

Agreed.

Sabrina: "Sure they (sic) are better targets for blackmail being such public figures, but again, if they are keeping their noses clean to begin with, what's there to blackmail them with ?"

Nothing.. and I agree with you.

Until yesterday, Weiner was trying to hide something and was not keeping his nose clean. That set him up for blackmail. If an elected official is blackmailed by a foreign intelligence service, the nation's security is compromised. That seems straightforward to me.

So Larry Craig taps his foot under a stall and people scream for his head but Weiner sends pictures of his dick to various females and it's okay because he's still a good public servant? Uuuuuh no.

Both actions call into legitimate question the person's judgement.

Craig, perhaps, can be forgiven because he was still in the closet, and probably in denial as well. Although that denial made him vulnerable to blackmail, again a judgement-questioning thing.

Edwards and Spitzer, on the other hand, were entitled jerks.

=========================

Well, at least Dems don't run on a platform of fictional "family values.

No, Democrats run on a platform of fictional "community values."

Too many (not all) Republicans pander to the social conservatives ("religious right"). More a social libertarian, myself, I find this disquieting and in need of watching, but less a serious hinderance to actually governing.

The Dems, on the other hand, have spent too long pandering to every liberal special interest group with a checkbook. The Democratic party is now almost wholly owned by the public employee unions. So much so that its ability to actually govern has become seriously compromised.

The ability of Democratic chief executives or legislatures to cut or modify government payrolls, pensions, and benefits is almost non-existent.

=========================

Somebody who is an elected official to high office who apparently isn't smart enough to know that his cover-up will be discovered in days. OMG indeed.

An elected official who isn't smart enough to use an anonymous Twitter account to send pictures of his privates is too stupid to remain in office, no matter his party affiliation.

"OMG, since when are politicians supposed to be superior humans?"

It's part of the definition of the word "leader". As a leader, one is expected to set an example. Also, a leader must not expose himself to undue influence of special interests. Congressmen are privy to all sorts of information that must be held in confidence, from defense classified information, to information about pending law and regulatory changes, to contract bid information, to criminal investigation information. Isn't Weiner on the Budget Committee? A blackmailer with knowledge of Weiner's indiscretions could have blackmailed him to reveal info about upcoming budget debates, and then traded on the stock of companies who will be effected by these decisions.

"The only scandal here is the hypocrisy of all of you, you perfect specimens of humanity. "

In other words, anyone who isn't a perfect human being is exactly the same as s serial rapist or murderer. This is a false dichotomy, and is typical of the thinking engaged in by narcissists and borderlines. It's a way of justifying their own behavior, by tearing down everyone else.

And to pick up on one quote from Brian: "No, what he's saying is that since Democrats have no standards, they can't be called hypocrites for going against them." Yeah, this is a typical leftist rationalization for their behavior. Yet somehow, "we never claimed to have any morals" doesn't strike me as a winning campaign message.

OMG, it was important enough for FG to comment on how unimoportant it is!

Nick,
Ah... I get it now. That makes much more sense to me now that you explain it that way. Thanks for the clarifiction.

The adage is "It's not the crime, it's the coverup". This would have been only embarrassing for Weiner if he had confessed early.

But, Weiner lied early and often. Some people blame him for being stupid, because he lied in ways which would invite investigation and which could be verified.

He should resign because he is an arrogant "I'm above standards of behavior" liar. Put another way, his constituents should unelect him because of his lack of integrity.

I hear the shout "Grow up, all politicians lie". Yes, but some more than others, and some don't do the deeds to lie about that others do.

The point is, we now know (rather than merely suspect) that Weiner is a liar, so he should go. No politician runs on the statement "I am a liar", just the opposite. They say that they will be honest with the people. They don't campaign on the slogan "I may lie to you about my personal failures, but I will never lie to you about public matters." Who would belive that, anyway?

They may all lie. But, when we catch them, they must go. We should not have a standard that they all do something bad, so it really isn't so bad.

Ironically, if Weiner had confessed early, all Democrats and many independents would have said "He is human, with the faults of a man, but he is honest to the the core and will accept the consequences." They would have made him a saint for having integrity. He is unfit for office because he lacks that integrity.

The differances I see is one resigned, or was forced to resign, while the other is still in office. And the way the main stream edia has handled it. To quote several reporters/commentators, " I felt sorry for him" (Weiner)

"The adage is "It's not the crime, it's the coverup". This would have been only embarrassing for Weiner if he had confessed early."

TMZ is reporting that he sent a porn star e-mails with detailed instructions on how to lie to the press, even offering his PR people to help her. They have the emails, and he actually wrote the statements (lies) she was supposed use. This is what will ultimately force him to resign.

I really can't believe anyone could be this stupid. He wasn't dealing with just one woman or mistress; he was sending these to lots of women, all of whom could have gone to the press at any time.

You have to figure that these guys, at some level, want to get caught because they become increasingly reckless. Or else they're able to get away with such risky behavior for so long, they start to think they're immune.

To LovelySoul,

"They seem to want to get caught". It does seem that way, but they certainly do not want to get caught. This is what I think is happening.

Politics selects for devious liars. A rare few people in politics rise without a history of bad acts. Weiner has been in politics a long time, and has (just my opinion) known of or been a part of many schemes.

People adapt to risk. At first they can't sleep, then they are nervous, and eventually they don't worry at all. After avoiding 50 possible disasters, a person will assume that he is favored by the light and that nothing bad will happen to him. They also have the support group of their party and have seen (just my opinion) many people defended by their friends. This will protect them, they observe, if anything goes wrong.

Weiner screwed up in a very public way and expected the media and his party to cover for him. They tried, but Breitbart had the goods and was able to release information around the usual checkpoints of the press. Weiner's defense has worked before, and he isn't out of office yet. So, his view of the world and its consequences is quite rational. This outcome so far is very rare, and he may survive it.

One thing about this that bothers me is the number of people, yet again, saying things like, "Of course he lied, he's a politician." How did we get to the point that so many just accept that rather then expect honesty and integrity from our elected representatives?

No wonder we're going down the toilet.

OMG, since when are politicians supposed to be superior humans?

Since they started passing laws the rest of us are supposed to follow upon penalty of seeing our freedoms or livelihoods reduced.

Lawmakers (politicians) are public servants. Just as I don't condone the maid absconding with whatever she finds laying around my house so I don't condone politicians behaving as if they're living in a frat house while legislating that I behave as if I'm in a monastery.

You wanna make the rules, be better than the rules require you to be.

How did we get to the point that so many just accept [aberrant behavior by politicians] rather then expect honesty and integrity from our elected representatives?

No wonder we're going down the toilet.

Yep.

Fun speculation - Huma Abedin has long been rumored to be homosexual. The rumors were so strong, in fact, that she was alleged to be involved with Hillary! That would mean that Tony's nothing more than a beard meant to take the heat off of Hillary for what almost certainly never happened.

Which would explain why he's got a hot-ass wife, and he's trolling the internet for pussy.

Of course, Spitzer was a piece of shit who was never properly investigated. Here he was, taking down mob-run prostitution rings while using the services of one. Gee, I wonder if he got a discount. Given that he's the one who got Hank Greenberg kicked out of AIG just in time for them to get into the CDS market with FMLA, I'd say that his misdeeds and obsession with other people's sex lives is a possible prime trigger for the economic collapse.

So, Mr. "OMG, TEH SEKS!", THAT is why we care about the sex lives of our politicians. Pussy makes men do stupid things. Men have started wars that destroyed entire nations for pussy.

In a representative republic, we have a vested interest in knowing which politicians can't control their urges.

So, Mr. "OMG, TEH SEKS!", THAT is why we care about the sex lives of our politicians. Pussy makes men do stupid things. Men have started wars that destroyed entire nations for pussy

Come on now brian, we cant expect americans to know anything about history. Next thing you know you'll be advocating informed elections - you do that and you'll wind up on a government watch list somwhere.

FG is the pinacle of the american educational system. A stupid electorate is an easily controlable electorate

"That is the difference between elected officials and your average American like me: elected officials can be set up for blackmail." - Nick

----

This.

"The only scandal here is the hypocrisy of all of you, you perfect specimens of humanity. "

Our public servants (who we elect and whose salaries we pay) are exposed as both liars and as incredibly stupid, and *we* are the ones at fault? Really!? Wow. Just wow. I'm trying, but sorry, I don't know how to twist reality that badly as to arrive at that absurd conclusion.

And no, FG, I'm not a "hypocrite", as I've never cheated on my wife, never sent pics like these, nor done anything this stupid. Sounds like you are the one guilty of something and needing to appease your own sense of personal responsibility by falsely casting such behavior as universal.

"That is the difference between elected officials and your average American like me: elected officials can be set up for blackmail."

Nobody who chooses to go into politics is under the false impression that (right or wrong) their life will not be subject to public scrutiny.

Exposing and humiliating politicians for things like this is one of the only few ways we have left to hold them accountable and remind them that they need to behave ethically. If we stopped caring at all or let their private lives be, politicians would finally truly have completely free rein and free reign. So humiliate away, it's healthy.