A Fistful Of Taxpayer Dollars
Now look who's getting a place on the taxpayer teat. Teri Sforza writes for the OC Reg that public pensions that used to go to those with the most dangerous jobs are now going to just about anyone who might break a fingernail in the course of their work day:
In California, enhanced public safety pensions -- originally meant for workers who charge into burning buildings and battle criminals with guns -- are going to motor-vehicle examiners, livestock inspectors, funeral home inspectors and many others, a nationwide analysis by USA Today has found.If it's any comfort, the Golden State is not alone. "Special retirement benefits once reserved for police, firefighters and others with dangerous jobs are now being given to tens of thousands of state workers employed as park rangers, foresters, dispatchers, coroners, even highway laborers, museum guards and lifeguards," the paper reported Friday. "The trend will add heavily to the $70 billion that state taxpayers owe state retirement funds each year and is costing states such as Florida and Maryland $15 million to $30 million annually."
Steven Malanga writes in City Journal:
So sweet are California's pension deals that a report by the state's Little Hoover Commission, a government watchdog agency, estimated that the average government worker retiring with full benefits and Social Security will get 109 percent of his final working salary as a pension.
From the USA Today link above (story by Thomas Frank):
In Illinois, where highway maintenance workers earn up to $148,000 a year with overtime, early enhanced retirement can pay a $75,000-a-year pension at age 50 after 25 years on the job. That adds up to $2.2 million if the retiree lives to age 80 -- or $1.2 million more than if the person had been in the state's regular retirement plan. A 25-year Florida crime lab analyst can get a $60,000 pension at age 50 and collect $1.8 million by age 80, compared with $575,000 if the person was not in the state's "special-risk class."People in dangerous public safety jobs have long had enhanced early retirement to encourage them to make way for younger workers as their physical abilities decline, and to compensate them for lasting physical and mental damage.
Over the years, other state workers have lobbied elected officials heavily to be included to those plans, or have won the benefits via labor negotiations, arguing that they have similar responsibilities and stress as police. The plans now include livestock inspectors, lottery agents, electricians, elevator repairmen, coroners, sewer workers, magistrates, motor-vehicle inspectors, airplane pilots and union executive directors. Wildlife officers have early retirement in 25 states and liquor-control agents have it in 15 states.
"Everybody wants to be in our special plan," said Christine Gianopoulos, deputy executive director of Maine's retirement system.
You can sell my knuckles when I'm 90 if I can no long afford to keep working to pay for the liquor control "officer" who takes early retirement -- with pay -- on my dime.
Oh, and here's the big question: Your proposal for how we fix this?
I think most of the government retirement plans are out of whack. I think even for the police and firefighters they are a bit out of whack.
A story on the TV awhile back was talking about this. They noted that the police could retire and collect that retirement even if they got another job with few restrictions. They profiled one guy who was getting ~150k/yr in Police retirement and another $100k/yr for the Liquor control agency. They noted in a few years he would likely be able to retire and collect a total of $300k/yr.
The Former Banker at December 12, 2011 12:24 AM
Look out. Somebody on here will take offense if you suggest that you actually pay attention to those who dole out pensions...
Even as they're everybody's business when they are public-sector.
Radwaste at December 12, 2011 2:38 AM
> Oh, and here's the big question: Your proposal
> for how we fix this?
Cities should simply declare bankruptcy. Essentially, they are already bankrupt. In bankruptcy, you can tear up any existing contracts and get out of these obligations.
Snoopy at December 12, 2011 5:10 AM
How to fix it? Snoopy is right, but the bankruptcy would have to be declared by politicians who owe their own jobs to the Public Sector Unions. Morally, the contracts were made under duress and in bad faith, by SEIU, for SEIU, signed by arbitrators in the pay of SEIU. No qualms about defaulting, but you never get the votes in city council.
So you need dynamite instead. (Very few problems cannot be solved with judicious application of explosives.) The pension checks are sent out by computers, computers with mass storage data back-up in multiple locations, but still just machines. Boom, Baby, and a little boom over there and boom in that storage bay in Iron Mountain and suddenly there are No Records of where to send the checks, so the money cannot be spent. The Governor hands out pardons to my... the team and The Mad Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight saves the day for our debt-ridden children and we all enjoy a cup of tea in the new age of prosperity.
My friends in net security say it could be done with software, but Hollywood has taught me that evil cannot be defeated until something goes boom.
Boom, baby.
Storm Saxon's Gall Bladder at December 12, 2011 5:57 AM
You could probably control it using work-related death statistics. If you have a similar amount of work-related deaths as police officers or fire fighters, especially in older workers, you get enhanced retirement. If not, you don't.
Janie4 at December 12, 2011 6:39 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/12/the-danger-is-r.html#comment-2850190">comment from Janie4But, how do you change the fact that we're going to all go under (cities, counties, states, people) paying the benefits of all these people who are lottery agents, etc.
Amy Alkon
at December 12, 2011 6:40 AM
Hazard pay for livestock inspectors is totally appropriate because of all those familes who tend to shoot back when you try to steal their food.
damaged justice at December 12, 2011 6:51 AM
> here's the big question: Your proposal for how we fix this?
Rope and lampposts.
TJIC at December 12, 2011 9:57 AM
Storm' bladder: that sounds like the plot from Fight Club. Tyler Durden was a schizophrenic nutszo.
Fixes: Audit POST certified classifications to make sure they meet the criteria. Tighten the criteria. Wildlife officers arrest poachers. Out in the woods. alone. You really think that should be done without a gun? But yes you have to draw the line somewhere before you end up with POST certified yoga instructors.
Make the plans actuarially sound. Good luck. But if you could expose the agencies and employees to a contribution rate that would make the plans sound then you would see a lot more agencies trying to get out or cut back. I think my current total contribution is around %23 of gross. If it hit 30% you would see agencies looking to move away from the plan or at least to a cheaper plan.
Get rid of air time.
Get rid of the one year average.
means test survivor continuance.
Fix the fucking economy so I can make a return somewhere. Defined benefit looks REALLY good when you're losing 14%, not so good when you are making 10%. FWIW, my agency did not join the public pension until the dot-com bubble decimated upper management's portfolios.
smurfy at December 12, 2011 12:27 PM
"They noted that the police could retire and collect that retirement even if they got another job with few restrictions. They profiled one guy who was getting ~150k/yr in Police retirement and another $100k/yr for the Liquor control agency."
SO what? Either the state is paying the first guy retirement, and some other guy $100k a year for the new job, or they pay both to the first guy. If he's actually working, I don't see the problem. It's the same amount of money the state is spending either way.
For example, if you work for Exxon for 25 years and retire, they don't give a rats ass if you go get another job after. You get paid your pension (probably 401k now but was pension when my dad worked there) and that's the end of the attention they pay your activities. As it should be.
momof4 at December 12, 2011 12:55 PM
Tyler Durden was a schizophrenic nutszo
Yeah, but the bastard got results
And momof4 the only problem with your analogy is that the government doesnt turn a profit, nor are they ultimatly responsible for the consequences of their pisspoor decisions
lujlp at December 12, 2011 3:17 PM
"You get paid your pension (probably 401k now but was pension when my dad worked there) and that's the end of the attention they pay your activities."
Aside from a potential percentage match (no guarantee of getting one, of course), 401ks are paid for out by the employee out of their paycheck, not by the company as an added benefit.
Not Sure at December 12, 2011 6:43 PM
Not Sure, that has nothing to do with my comment, other than I was acknowledging that there may not be pensions anymore at Exxon. My point on pensions stands-once you've earned one, it's no one's business what you do after-whether it's sailing the caribbean or working at Walmart or working at TABC. Whether you think they've earned one is another topic.
momof4 at December 12, 2011 7:01 PM
"Your proposal for how we fix this?"
It involves tar. And feathers.
Cousin Dave at December 12, 2011 7:18 PM
What I was thinking about when I posted that was that police officers and firefighters get these great retirement packages that they can take (relatively) early because supposedly the job is so hard on them that won't really be able to work much more. Yet clearly based on the reporting that was not true at all. Most had no trouble getting good jobs after retiring. Thus, the special treatment was not warranted.
I also see it to being similar to transfering departs in Exxon or whichever company. It is like my Aunt who retired then a couple years later one of her former managers wanted her to come back part time for him in a new department - the big problem for her was that she could not collect her retirement while she worked there - instead her retirement would go back to growing.
The Former Banker at December 13, 2011 12:41 AM
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