I don't think you have to put a "but" after "Gregg cooks for me." My mother may have been the cook in my family growing up but I was taught to take care of myself down to cooking and cleaning. Not to mention the multiplicity of males in the kitchen from chefs to foodies everywhere.

Gregg sounds like a great guy. I'd like to meet him some day. Then again, I' like to meet you some day as well.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someone-shes-not-inter,1507/

It's a problem that America will have to deal with in another ten years or so. Boys are being pushed out of the educational system at a young age, and with credentialism the order of the day in employment, plus government policies that make women more valuable employees, few men will be able to find good jobs in the future. Most women do not respect a partner who makes less money than they do, and I think that's very unlikely to change.

I recently read some article about 'what a man should know before he flirts...' And it was a lotta tripe about asking permission and respecting her wishes and such. It was all good in theory, and all stuff I was taught (I'm 47)... But there is an opposing idea, that if you give women all that they ask for, they eventually think you are less a man, and punish and/or leave you for that.
Seems like that's similar to what this says... And when coupled with the potential of the 80% of women chasing the 20% of alpha men.
You can even tie this all with the idea that a woman sees a man as raw material to change... and once he changes, they don't like what they end up with. Given the popularity of 50shades of submission... Seems like there is such a conflict that no-one can figure it out...

I am certainly glad to be older now and unafraid to just be a man with flaws, but it doesn't make me datable. Maybe I dun care about that either.

For many generations, males in my family are very masculine, work hard labor and cook excellently, I.e., my grandfathers' tamales were better than my grandmothers, and hers were very tasty. My male family members are also very loving and passionate about our family so I was fortunate to have the best of both worlds. Also very fortunate that my husband was the same, masculine, loving and a great cook,and baker. We raised our son same way. Therefore, my experience is that men don't have to change. I like them just the way they are.

Great post.

But, sadly, in a world of 3 baseline "givens" (rising status of women, female hypergamy in long-term mating, and the difference between long-term and short-term mate selection criteria and the different chronological and gender preference for each) women aren't rewarding that kind of man in the currency men value most. They reward shiftless slacker bros (at least at the college where I work) who signal indifference and the substanceless variety of bro manness. Since women don't think nearly as much about long-term mating when their mate calue is highest, they reward all the wrong behavior and men, being what we are, are happy to get what we want for minimal effort and investment.

I've watched it happening for awhile. My own awareness of what was happening probably began with M.A.S.H and the ever-increasing "sensitivity" of Hawkeye Pierce along with my ever-decreasing interest in the show; along with the cloying sweetness of things like Free to Be,You and Me and the post-Vietnam fear of guns in general and then any and all forms of aggressive behavior.

I'd feel sorry for the guys, except they're letting it happen. And I'd feel worse for the sake of our country it I didn't know how ferocious women can be.

It's just one more thing we're doing to ourselves.
Interesting to watch but sad, like a nature documentary about a drought.

I was saying this to friends recently. Going back to grad school, I see these "guys" walking around and they look so...unmanly. They probably shave more on their body than I do!
There is no rugged maniless or ability to step up and take control of things. They are passive, want women to do all the work, and show little initiative, aside from their haircare maintenance.
I don't need an alpha, but I won't date a wuss. I blame lack of decent male figures, but it's not polite to say single homes aren't the best choice for children...

Amy: just finished your book today at the salon...passing it on to friends. The chapter on bad parenting was the best!

I think that this can happen in the reverse too. He was attracted to my carefree spirit, my intellectual curiosity, and my ability to be totally in the moment with him. When we got serious, he wanted me to have a perfectly clean apartment, spend time with him, and remember all the little details that often slip my mind. When I did all those things that he wanted, he wasn't so happy after all. I lost the things that made me me - warts and all.

Anyone here eating these: "Kirkland - Costco - Quick'n Eat Fully Cooked Angus Beef Patties" http://addictedtocostco.com/2009/11/07/this-week-at-costco-november-1-2009/ Oh man, two minute microwavable burgers that actually taste pretty darn good.

Amy, I know I am bitter and jaundiced, but I can't take GMP seriously. Their name alone is an affront. They don't seem to discuss the good men around us all every day, but instead how to make us scum into something digestible. They play yet another variation of blame the patriarchy (men.)

Gregg cooks for me (because I'd otherwise subsist on a diet of frozen Costco hamburgers, as writing till I drop is my priority). But he is a big, guy from Detroit, with all the man-ness conveys.

I do most of the cooking because I enjoy it and I'm good at it. Does that make me some kind of faggot?

There's a line from the movie "Fight Club"-- "We're a generation of men who were raised by WOMEN." Robert Glover extends this by saying "We're three generations of men, and working on a fourth, who were raised by women."
How can (often single) moms teach their sons how to be Real Men, when nobody has seen one?

"tripe about asking permission and respecting her wishes..."
Real men don't need other people's permission or approval! We understand respect, and know that it's a two-way street.

For all the abuse being heaped on the PUA/seduction community, they do have something important going for them: These men are talking to each other, learning and teaching things we didn't learn from our dads-- for the simple reason that they didn't know this stuff, either. They're testing what they learn and they keep it evolving. Thirty years ago, it simply didn't exist. God bless the internet!

Um, Steve, men are chefs. I'm just talking about the domestic environment

Yep. That's where I do it. And you know what? Chicks dig it.

Here it is...
http://www.charlieglickman.com/2012/09/something-i-want-men-to-know-before-flirting-with-women/
The tale begins with a laudable excercise in how women feel when they are constantly harrassed, but then degenerates into conflating every bad actor with every man... As if every man is a potential rapist unless proven otherwise. And as if you dont roll over and show your soft underbelly, you must be a threat.
I wonder how any man can even live thinking that...

I realize myself, that there are times to appear unthreatening... I'm 6' & shaped like a bear, and I've backed men of ill intent up, by looking them in the eye... so when I am talking to a much smaller woman, I may make myself smaller appearing, especially in business situations.
But if I escort you to the dancefloor, you'll feel my hand across your back, and I may well lead you...

More on "tripe about asking permission"...
One of the most basic lessons we men have to learn is, there's a big difference between what women *like* versus what they RESPOND to. David D teaches that from the start. Women all *like* to have men fawning over them and paying for movies and meals, it's what our mommies teach us, but how do they RESPOND? With a kiss on the cheek before they run off to finish the night with their jerky fnck-buddies... So it should come as no surprise if women *like* the way a man gives up his balls-- but treat him like garbage when he does it.

My man can cook better than I can and is rather short. He's still pretty manly. I've yet to have something break around the house he couldn't fix (he has to replace a toilet tomorrow that my DS flushed a 3 inch paintbrush down).

All the men I've stayed with for more than a few dates were competent. They could install a car stereo, rewire a room, fix my washer, and were decent at sports. Competence turns me on. Nothing is worse than helplessness in a man, in just about any scenario imaginable. .

I recently read some article about 'what a man should know before he flirts...' And it was a lotta tripe about asking permission and respecting her wishes and such.

What a load of crap.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at September 22, 2012 10:56 AM
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Um, without having read the article and seeing the details, what makes you so sure it IS crap?

There are plenty of things NO ONE should do to another without at least being reasonably sure that he/she is happy with it.

Mild case in point: In 1984, Miss Manners said, in effect, that it was fine, if unusual by then, for a gentleman in a restaurant to give the orders for both himself and his lady friend to the waiter - provided, of course, he knew in advance she was COMFORTABLE with that and/or had told him what she wanted.

Quote: "You may be sure that no gentleman today would have the nerve to announce that 'Madam will have the steak' if Madam had not instructed him to do so."

You can read it here:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19840212&id=PoUwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3830,4682087

(You have to move the blue rectangle on the right.)

I'm new here, just found this articles via the GMP. I read all the comments, this stuck out.

"One of the most basic lessons we men have to learn is, there's a big difference between what women *like* versus what they RESPOND to."

That strikes me as true. There is a seeming disconnect between what women like and what they respond to. How do I go about this as a guy? Of course I'm curious about opinions on what women like etc., but in the end I just try to be myself because what's the point of love/relationships if you're not accepted and loved as you are? In other words, the solution I see for men is to stop asking what women want and just be men, unique, individual men - whether that means cooking or sports, being mr. fix it or caretaker or all of those, just be it!

That being said, I do realize there is a bigger problem outside of the individual level i.e. in economical terms, women are placing the demand on something they don't actually desire the supply of in the end. However, I'll digress to my first point. If what women really want is a man and you are a man, then just be a man! Don't think there is this weird or mysterious difference between the platonic form of a man which all women desire (this is b.s.!). If you are a man, just be a man, and be yourself!

That being said, maybe there is some need for men to change or be something different than what they are. Fine. Everybody has those things. It's a human issue, not a gender issue. Remember that everybody is first belongs to the human race before they belong to a gender. Everybody has ways they need to mature. A lot of the things I see people harping on men to change are issues of maturity (and maturity applies to both genders) not of masculinity necessarily.

" And it was a lotta tripe about asking permission and respecting her wishes and such."

You don't "ask permission" to flirt with a woman. Any article that posits that is a crapload.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at September 23, 2012 1:27 PM
___________________________

OK, I didn't grasp that the permission in question was about whether or not to flirt with her.

Well, different strokes for different folks. Some men undoubtably love the idea of staying home and watching the kids while their wife brings home the bacon. If you're that guy then great--your desired lifestyle is now becoming more socially acceptable and you're more likely to find a spouse who's on the same page. If you're not that guy, don't pretend to be and then whine when it's not working. Ditto for women, of course.

Personally as a women, if one of us were to stay home I'd prefer it to be me. But if my job paid better, or my career didn't allow for time off, or my husband's job was extremely flexible, or he hated his job anyway, or he turned out to be better with the kids then me, then I'd be open to an alternative arrangement. I'd rather do what makes the most sense for the family rather than make financial and quality of life sacrifices just to stick to a traditional role, and I imagine most reasonable men and women feel the same.