Once I learned about the "ALAR Scare" I have always questioned any government or media pronouncements.

Organic has always been more about what's not in it, rather than extra nutrition, anyway... So, for the heavy pesticide hitters like pears, I can see it. But, the whole issue is raised extra, when you are importing food from halfway around the world. How early you gotta pick an apple for it to be ripe getting from New Zealand to here?
Dunno as there is a good answer, we supposedly eat better than ever, and we certainly live longer. So, what's the tradeoff?

The best kind of veggies and fruit taste wise are home grown. If you have never tasted you have no idea what you are missing out.

I buy grass fed organic hormone free animal products but it's mostly because my black heart has a soft spot for animals.

I usually buy organic fruit veggies for taste but not sure if I can keep it up. Bad economy is really hitting me hard. I have to cut costs. I don't shop anymore and the next thing to go is food. Eating out is out and so is buying pricey food products.

I always thought the point of organic wasn't that it had more vitamins in it, but that it didn't use poisonous substances that a) was on the food and b) ran off into water supplies.

Um, just who actually thought organic produce contained more nutrients? That's a strange one, and pretty obviously untrue. I thought the main attraction of organic produce was the idea that it was raised with fewer chemicals, in the form of fertilizer and pesticides.

However, one also has to consider the varieties that are raised organically. Some organic farmers, particularly the large-scale ones, specifically choose crops that are naturally pest-resistant. Why are they pest-resistant? Because they naturally contain pesticides. The difference is that these pesticides don't wash off, because they are an integral part of the plant.

I recall one article on apples (sorry, can't seem to find it again), that analyzed the pesticide content of the entire fruit; the results were pretty astounding. Of course, this isn't the kind of measurement the organic folks want to make...

Where do you draw the organic/non-organic line?

I don't.

About the only fruit I buy is apple. There are cheap varieties of apple, somewhere around a dollar a pound. They have tough skins and mediocre flesh.

The ones I get are around two-fifty. I prefer Envy, but will take Gala if the Envys are not in stock. Their skins, while not as tough as the cheap apples, stand up well to washing, a step I take to reduce/eliminate the pesticide residue.

Organic is trendy. I don't pay for trendy.

Less poison in the environment, don't think you can put a price tag on that.

Like the comment: organic is trendy...organic, the natural cultivation of crops that's been going on for about 10,000 years is trendy?

Just read Breasts by Florence Williams, gives a startling picture of how toxins in the environment are shaping our health and possibly our evolution. DDT used to be harmless, too!

Pesticides are stored in fat, so if you must limit your purchases of organic foods, at least buy organic red meat and whole milk.

Where do you draw the organic/non-organic line?

I agree with the nutritionist (can't remember the name) who pointed out that the divide shouldn't be between organic and non-organic broccoli; you're still eating broccoli. It should be between broccoli and Ding Dongs or Go-Gurt or Mountain Dew and such. Which makes sense to me.

Organic is also a certification, and the farmer must pay for the analysis. So some small growers may indeed produce organic food, but it's not labeled as such. Others are "semi-organic," meaning they've determined they need to use a particular fertilizer or ingredient, but otherwise strive to eliminate others in their foods.

I'm not sure why it's news in the NYT that organic food isn't more nutritive than non-organic. It's the same food, just grown and produced differently.

Pesticides are stored in fat, so if you must limit your purchases of organic foods, at least buy organic red meat and whole milk.

Like the comment: organic is trendy...organic, the natural cultivation of crops that's been going on for about 10,000 years is trendy?

Allow me to amend: The marketing of food as Organic! Woot! Woot! is trendy. I don't pay for woot.

I have found organic foods to be too expensive. But, I have found food that is grown on a family farm much more tasty than big chain bought food that is produced on large production farms.

It was said above, garden food tastes better. My own chickens produce much better eggs than the eggs you buy in the grocery store. Not less expensive, I don't think, just more fun.

I've always tried to stay away from organic because I'm allergic to the prices. It's true that vegetables and many fruits are better when home-grown but that's because they're ultra-fresh; whether you protect your crop with man-made pesticides or hope that the plant's own pesticides (which are no less "poisonous" than the man-made kind) will be adequate has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with flavor. Or nutrition.

I don't really have a choice, I get what ever fruits or veggies I feel like eating, there is usually only one choice, organic is rare around here. So I don't see the point in even walking across the street to get something organic when it is less than 1% of what's available, if you aren't growing it yourself.

I don't really care if it's organic as far as fruit and veggies go, as I'm almost zero carb. I'd like to start eating grass fed beef and the butter from same, but after just pricing the butter in the grocery store I almost had a heart attack. I but what I can, if the price is reasonable, but I also need to keep the electricity on to cook it.

I cant really taste a difference between organic or non/o fruits and veggies.

And as someone else pointed out alot of stuff that is organic isnt labeled as such cause the producers cant afford the testing.

As far as meat goes there is a HUGE difference. Meat so deeply red its practically purple, eggs so strong you can drop them 5 feet onto rocks and they dont break, egg yolks a healthy organge jellow not the wax color you see in most store bought eggs. Egg yolk twice or thrice as large and voluminous as store bought.

Everyone who likes eggs should get themsevles a couple of layers. Feed em your table scraps, anything that goes bad in your fridge and the boiled egg shells (make sure they are boiled) and
you'll have all the eggs you could ever want and practically no cost

I buy whatever I want, or whatever I can afford, depending on my bank account when I grocery shop.

I've tasted local eggs and agree they have better flavor, and sometimes local produce tastes better, but I don't have the attention-span required to keep a plant, let alone a garden or poultry alive, so that's out of the question.

I've tried organic food from the grocery stores, and I honestly didn't think it tasted better. Maybe my taste buds are broken.

I'm definitely going try this fancy meat commenters above are mentioning. I was a vegetarian for nearly twenty years and have only started eating meat again in recent years. I have a lot of catching up to do (sorry Clover).

I saw this episode of Penn & Teller's B.S. It's not scientific, but interesting nonetheless.

http://youtu.be/-2ET7Xv2m9k

> Less poison in the environment, don't think
> you can put a price tag on that.

I think you can put a price tag on that. I think sane men must and good men do.

And I think evil men are so eager to behave like assholes that they use "poison in the environment" as the excuse to take control of the lives of others. They want nothing more than to stand screeching at the forefront of some vague, open-ended exigency – ’No price tag!’ – with badges on their chests and erections in their shorts.

"Environment" is a word that came to be horribly misused in the 1960's, and we're not getting it back. We lost "toxins" in that same way during the 80’s. A few years ago I heard (Dr.) Pinsky talk about “toxins” prattle (close paraphrase): ‘None of these people have ever told me what a “toxin” is... They’ll never describe the chemical properties of a toxin.’ Since then, anytime I’ve heard the word in conversation, I’ve asked for some specific data... Molecular weight, chemical bonds, etc. Anyone who chats about “toxins” as an ancient healer might have discussed “humors” can be discounted.

Props to Amy for coming back at you for this. I haven’t had a lifetime of exotic experiences, but I once contracted malaria on a scuba trip. The pain was overwhelming, and distinctive in ways that are difficult to describe... But I went in to work anyway and it was over it after a week or so, because I’m a (relatively) rich white guy from America who has a clean, dry place to live, a sensational diet, and compelling good looks. The only consequence is lost sensation the most distant tips of the ring, middle and index fingers in my left hand. This injury is incidental... It’s like a vacation trinket from a gift shop, a neurological snow globe.

But the villagers in Papua New Guinea, where I was diving, aren’t so lucky... They 'work' when they have malaria because they starve if they don't, and there are no vacations anyway. But their central nervous systems mean as much to them as mine does to me. I haven’t been protected by my virtue or choice of latitude, but by my wealth. They too deserve our best solutions. If they were all being raised with the health they deserve, there’d be a lot more strong brains around to solve the ecological impacts of DDT, whatever they may be.

Off to watch Nikki’s P&T clip.

I try to mostly eat and serve to my family foods that are real and healthful. I can fortunatlely afford to do e.g. grass fed beef, free range eggs, etc. I'm not nuts for organics, but I do avoid conventional stuff that has a high level of pesticide contamination e.g., strawberries, but I don't go crazy about this if I can't find them. Otherwise my research suggests it's more important to eat real, non-grain foods (no wheat, corn, oats, etc) than it is to eat only organic.

There are no no toxic substances, only toxic amounts, which vary given on the organism being affected.

Tens of millions of people have died, so that bald eagles wouldn't have weak eggshells. I like animals as much as anyone-but WHO can argue that is a good thing?

I do have to say that when I did eat apples, for example, an organic apple would be more likely to be tasty instead of tasteless and mealy. Maybe this has something to do with the scale of the farms of organic versus Big Ag?

It could also be that the organic farmers are growing heirloom apples rather than modern hybrids that are designed to last for long periods and look appealingly red at the expense of taste.

> Less poison in the environment, don't think
> you can put a price tag on that.

I think you can put a price tag on that. I think sane men must and good men do.

This is one thing that tends to infuriate me most about the modern environmental movement: the unwillingness to apply cost-benefit analyses to policy questions. (This is not helped by how few of them understand math and statistics, but that is a rant for another day.)

I tried to discuss this several years ago with two people who knocked on my door to get me to sign a petition condemning Bush for (temporarily) putting a hold on Clinton's reduction of arsenic standards from 50 ppm to 14 ppm. I pointed out that arsenic occurs naturally at >14 ppm in numerous places and that attempts to reduce it below that level may divert money from more cost-effective actions (especially since the towns that are primarily affected -- e.g., old mining communities -- are often poor and probably have more pressing needs). No dice: arsenic is bad, m'kay? That was the extent of their thinking on the matter.

I try to stick with free-range critters but where I really, really draw the line is with fruit from Chile.

I live in freakin' California. I'm not buying fruit that was put on a boat in Chile lo these many weeks ago.

Locally grown is my first choice (for taste) unless you're charging an arm and a leg, in which case you get paid in a finger.

My issue is that organic prices are so high that the reward for cheating is far greater than the risk. I don't trust that alleged organic products actually are.

That being said, eating grass-fed beef and dairy over grain-fed is far more beneficial to health than eating "organic" produce that might have slightly reduced pesticide residue.