He should have used his passport instead, although I had BofA refuse my passport as ID saying that it could be easily forged and they only accept a driver's license. I said I could walk out the door and get a phony driver's license in five minutes, while a passport would take at least ten.

I thought it had been ruled illegal in the state of CA for a store to require personal info (such as zip code) to check you out.

I am sympathetic with Target though. If they sell to somebody underage, as a huge chain, they'll get walloped. They have lots of employees, and so many people throw a hissy if they're carded (I guess they want people to think they are old), that it makes sense from a uniformity and not-getting-their-asses-handed-to-them point of view.

Of course, this doesn't make it ok, but I'd put the blame on the law, not on the store. The law puts the blame on a STORE if the sales clerk can't correctly identify the difference between 20 and 22 - and not many folks are that accurate at guessing age. I'm usually lucky to guess in the right decade, myself.

That said, the last time I was carded (almost 2 years ago, but I buy alcohol about 3 times a year), I gave my ID, and the lady just keep looking at it. I finally asked if something was wrong (I was out of state, but in a neighboring state's touristy area, so they had to have SOME of that license come through). The lady (young 20's I'd say) said, "You don't look that old. You look maybe 16." I was 30 at the time.

So, even having a valid ID isn't a perfect result.

Let's assume it's a good idea to not allow certain adults (ages 18-20) to drink alcohol. So, who should bear the blame, the establishment ringing up a large purchase containing a bit, or the person who drinks it underage?

I'd say blame the person. After all, it's not illegal for a 20-year-old to OWN alcohol, so why should it be illegal to sell it to them?

When cashiers ask for my zip code, I'll give it to them, because there are so many people who live in my zip code, who cares? But when they ask for my phone number, I just smile and say "it's unlisted". If they persist, I say, a little sterner, "it's unlisted for a reason". They don't ask again, and just ring up my stuff. You don't HAVE to give them personal info. I don't understand why more people don't understand this.

I have run into this at Target and I was so pissed off it wasn't even funny. The first time was buying beer, and the young lady asked for my ID, when I handed it to her to look at, she swiped it. I was shocked. I told her she should have told me she was going to swipe it because I didn't care to have my personal information stored in their computers. I haven't bought alcohol at Target again. About a year later, I went in to buy Ny-Quil, and the woman tried to swipe my ID, I was able to stop her. This is a huge invasion, and I don't know their retention policies. I've gotten to the point that I pay cash when I shop because of all the identity theft going on. I definitely don't need to give the thieves a leg up with my license information!

I've seen this happen in Virginia, though not to me so far. Young people buying beer or smokes at the local stores will get the DLs scanned, but nobody's done it to me. But as Shannon touched on, it looks like there are a couple of issues going on here:

First, why are the scanning the driver's licenses? Are they merely verifying ages? As Shannon points out, if the store is forced, due to compliance purposes, to automate ID verification, you can kind of understand it.

Second, what are they doing with the data? Looking around briefly on the web, I couldn't come up with anything conclusive. This ACLU article is probably the most thoughtful piece I've seen. According to the article, Target only retains date of birth data associated with the sale of controlled items, but even that is a little dodgy. What are the retaining it for? Are other retailers retaining data?

I absolutely blame the law for this. While Target could probably get away with something similar to Wal-Mart by allowing the cashier to type in the DOB, they determined it's easier for them to both determine if the ID is valid by its magnetic strip and collect demographic info about you from your ID for use in their marketing. I think it has more to do with fake IDs than anything else, because when I was a cashier at a big box, even if the fake ID was very very well done, if the cashier rang out someone underage and someone underage, not necessarily the person illegally buying the booze, got hurt from overindulging, the cashier is liable, and the company will be fined. There was a case of a straw purchase at Wal-Mart during which the cashier couldn't have seen occurring (the underage person transferred money outside of the store and left a list for the 25 ish buyer, and court couldn't get her on knowingly selling to a straw purchaser), and the cashier went to jail because another teenage girl died at a party where she imbibed some of the beverage straw purchased.

Drivers' licenses? I must be outta the loop, nobody's tried to scan mine yet. But I haven't shopped in Target for a while, and I would never buy wine there, when I have a perfectly good liquor store right around the corner from where I live. Why buy booze at Target??

"Of course, this doesn't make it ok, but I'd put the blame on the law, not on the store. The law puts the blame on a STORE if the sales clerk can't correctly identify the difference between 20 and 22 "

I guess laws are changing on this. Back in my restaurant days (late 1970s), we were told that if someone presented an ID that appeared to be valid, we were to accept it, becuase the law shielded the restaurant from people using fake IDs. Of course, that doesn't leave a big pocket to sue, so it would not surprise me if the law has changed since then.

The manager can over-ride the need for the scan, but Target managers are few and slow. I never let them scan mine, and so the whole line waits.

Weren't they the ones that kicked out the Salvation Army folks during Christmas time (which of course they were free to do)?

They seem somewhat spineless to me all round.

I complained to Target's Customer Service VP, and said that just because they scanned my license didn't ensure that I wasn't going out to the parking lot and giving that Chardonnay to some 12 year old with a taste for oak. Formula email response. The clerk's don't have the power to imput the date themselves, thus the wait for the manager. But if enough people complain, Target could let the clerks do the math themselves. This is not the Target it was when Dayton-Hudson owned it.
I am bossy, because someone needs to be the boss. Miss Ross is busy.

Isn't this the same company that revealed a girl was pregnant before she had told her father.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

I doubt Target is the only retailer doing the stuff in the Forbes article. The only way to avoid this is to pay in cash every time, never use credit cards or debit cards, never apply for rebates and never return anything. Also, never buy anything online. For most people, the convenience of credit and online shopping wins out over privacy concerns.

"You do not want to let anybody scan ANY of your personal documents."

They scan driver's licenses with a CC/DC scanner for cig/alcohol, not a passport. They can visually read the passport as it has your birthdate. It's great that illegal aliens can't buy cigarettes or alcohol anywhere these days, which has eliminated any DUI and/or DUI crashes by illegals in California.

BUT, whenever a store asks me for my zipcode, I either say: "zero. double zero. zero-zero." or "90210." It helps to hold a straight face.

When they ask for phone or email I tell them I don't have either... which works until my cell rings in my pocket.

When they ask for phone or email I tell them I don't have either... which works until my cell rings in my pocket.

That's when you scream, "Oh my God! My ass is ringing again! What the hell is wrong with me?"

Then go about your business like nothing happened.

They scan driver's licenses with a CC/DC scanner for cig/alcohol, not a passport. They can visually read the passport as it has your birthdate. It's great that illegal aliens can't buy cigarettes or alcohol anywhere these days, which has eliminated any DUI and/or DUI crashes by illegals in California.

Wait a minute - it's acceptable to ask poor people to obtain and show an ID so they can buy cigs and beer, but it's an unreasonable burden to ask them to obtain and show an ID so they can vote?

Thank you for posting this. It's getting harder and harder to just be left alone in this society. Target has no legitimate use for that personal info. Screw 'em they won't get my business.

"Jenny I've got your number..."

If you don't want to give out your number at the store or if you're at a place that has store discounts with a card you don't have, just try 867-5309. Use your local area code. This has worked for me in a lot of places I don't have discount cards for. It helps to say it with a straight face and stagger the numbers out a little as you say them. Then again I think a lot of cashiers are too young to remember that song.

I used to drop into Target every once in a while because they had better quality cotton sweaters, and better bed sheets but that superiority ended about ten years ago, when Wal-Mart opened a Super center near me.
Neither Wal Mart or Target sell any booze (state laws) so no incentive there. Target has no gun stuff, so they lose out to Wal Mart automatically. No reason to even darken Target's doors anymore.

Posted by: sara at March 1, 2013 5:24 AM

First, why are the scanning the driver's licenses? Are they merely verifying ages?

It's dual purpose. They get a quick go/no-go decision on that sale. They get demographic info on who their customers are. They get the basics of an enhanced advertising list. They get names to trade with other merchants. For them it's a sweet deal.

As Shannon points out, if the store is forced, due to compliance purposes, to automate ID verification, you can kind of understand it.

They may just be using that as a convenient excuse. Depends on local law.

Second, what are they doing with the data?

In the US? any damn thing they want. Once they have it, it is considered their property.

Looking around briefly on the web, I couldn't come up with anything conclusive.

You would need a source who works with their I.T. department. No real reason why they would put their every little project on the web. Or you could ask the Chinese. By now they have copies of everything Target had.

According to the article, Target only retains date of birth data associated with the sale of controlled items

That article is not legally binding upon them. Even if it was, they could change their policies tomorrow.

What are the retaining it for?

It's cheap, salable, and has the potential to be a profit booster.

Are other retailers retaining data?

Only the ones who want to.

I went to a show at a small club/bar a couple of months ago and noticed they were writing info down on paper by hand for each person. I asked the lady and she explained that because they had gotten "tagged for underage drinkers" they had to do the scan but they had made a deal so where doing this instead. The first column where her initials (match for several rows above so I believed her), next was year of birth listed, then my first and last initial, then the last two numbers of the license number - and state since mine was out of state. Seemed kinda wierd. But I have noticed a number of places seem to have the scanners and they don't let you in if they can't scan it. I had friend who was visiting and had an older driver's license from out of state which didn't have the strip or barcode (or maybe it was the wrong type or something) but they wouldn't let him in -- and he is about 40.

This reminds me. I need to buy a nice strong elctromagnet.

Wipe out the mag strip.

That's when you scream, "Oh my God! My ass is ringing again! What the hell is wrong with me?"

MonicaP, that is hilarious.

Not only is that hilarious; but, it is one quick way to get the check-out line to yourself.

C'mon, the cashier is a minimum wage employee whose required to ask you for your zipcode/email/digits because it's part of his/her crappy job. You're not sticking it to anyone by being rude or making things difficult for them. And whatever creative response you think of, I guarantee they've heard it 10 times that week already. No point directing your annoyance at the person with the least power to do anything about it.

***** But if enough people complain, Target could let the clerks do the math themselves.*****

And, there's the problem. Have you seen some of the teenaged clerks these days? THEY CANNOT DO MATH.

I'm not for the scanning either, but instead of upping their hiring standards and giving their employees a standard math test as a condition to employment, you get this. How many times have you seen the divide-by-zero looks when the teenager types in the wrong number and you try to correct him or her?

The problem is that no one learns basic math anymore.

But if enough people complain, Target could let the clerks do the math themselves.

I worked as a cashier in a grocery store in college. We were told that if we sold alcohol to a minor we would be fired and the state could impose penalties up to $1,000 and a year in jail. The fact that the minor presented a fake ID wouldn't matter - not to the courts nor to our employer.

State law made it the retailer's responsibility to detect fake IDs. The retailers made it clerk's responsibility.

As a result I carded everyone. I offended some and I delighted some and I annoyed most. But I carded them all. And I worried that someone was going to present a real-looking fake ID.

Having a scanner that could verify that the driver's license being presented to me was real would have been a godsend. And, most importantly, would have relieved both me and the store of the liability of not having been able to detect the fake.

So, I'm with Target on this one.

So just to be clear, you are with the lazy fucks voting for lazy fucks to pass laws that force lazy fucks to make their lazy fuck employees steal your data so they can turn around as sell it to even more lazy fucks who will pay the lazy fucks at the post office to stuff you mailbox and even more lazy fucks that will call your phone at all hours of the night?

If I didn't know better, I'd hazard a guess that you to are a lazy fuck

If I didn't know better, I'd hazard a guess that you to are a lazy fuck

Then it's a good thing you know better.

"My ass is ringing again!" Cracked me up! Unfortunately, I couldn't pull it off - I'd get the giggles, but I have successfully used 90210 AND 867-5309 (I'm only 32, but hey, I can make change too).

I *did* once call TSA or something like that and when they insisted they needed my name I said, "Fine. Queen of Sheba." Got called Ms. Of-Sheba the rest of the call.

I'm with Conan on this, as far as the store is concerned, but I think the laws are what ought to be changed. The stores are just doing what they have to do in order to not have government decide to suck them dry.