Why would you allow a toddler to take a fork and wander around a restaurant?

At the very least, take the fork away. Toddlers are called toddlers for a reason. They're learning to walk and apt to fall down. They could injure themselves or someone else if they fall with a fork.

On the flip side, the man who was annoyed by the child overreacted. The child backed away from him -- and hopefully learned a valuable lesson about approaching strangers -- yet the man continued to complain, even after the annoyance was removed. Get the hell over it.

"We had to let our two-year-old toddle around the restaurant a little."

Nope. They lost me here. The very last place you "have" to let a toddler toddle around is a restaurant. If the toddler needs to toddle (which they often do, and they're not at an age where you can reason with them and tell them to wait), you take said toddler out of the restaurant to a safe and appropriate place. Sometimes this means one parent either leaves temporarily until the toddling is done, or it means everyone gets their food to go. Interrupted mealtime is part of being a parent. What you don't do is hand a toddler a fork (?!?!?) and set him free to weave in and out of the table legs. It's dangerous and rude and irresponsible.

That said, the other guy sounds like kind of a dick. People need to stop being so surprised that children exist outside the nursery. It's not like the kid was screaming or throwing things at him. A child looking at him was not the end of the world.

"We had to let our two-year-old toddle around the restaurant a little."

Nope. They lost me here. The very last place you "have" to let a toddler toddle around is a restaurant.

Agreed. When my girls were little, I never let them "toddle around" a restaurant. Especially with any kind of utensil in their hands! If they were getting restless, I took them outside, weather permitting, and let them toddle around out there. With me watching. Constantly. Once they got older, and learned some manners, they were allowed to get up to go use the restroom by themselves. They were NOT allowed to bother the other patrons at all. Unless they actually knew said patrons. And even then, not so much. A polite 'hi' and then back to our table. Once outside the restaurant they could socialize all they wanted. (I was actually complimented, several times, by the waitresses at one of my favorite seafood places, on how well-behaved my girls were.)

So the kid made an ass of himself, and the customer made a bigger ass of himself. Typical.

First, you wouldn't let your dog run around the neighborhood. Why would you think it is OK to let a child run around in a restaurant? Fail.

Second, why do you think anyone wants to listen to your complaints? You make them, quietly, to the management, and let them deal with it. I'm there to enjoy my meal. Guys like this are the sort of idiot who complains to the clerk at the grocery store about the taste of something he bought. The clerk didn't make it. She can't do anything about it. But go ahead and annoy someone who can't do a damn thing about your problem, well, because you can.

Flynne and mse are correct. You don't let children wander around restaurants. With or without utensils. There are servers trying to work, carrying trays of heavy dishware and hot food. I'll let you arrive as the logical possible outcome.

Since this thread is about being polite, I have another question about manners, related to the gym. After I finish my workout, I like to relax in the steamroom or sauna. Not so much the jacuzzi, since (for me), it's a health hazard.

Most of the time, it's quiet and peaceful, which is the way I like it. If conversation happens, it's of very few words. "Nice to see you." "How are you?" "Fine."

But about five percent of the time, some people come in and cannot shut up. They have lively, animated conversations about something in their district or some hot political issue. Or other times, it's about nothing at all.

Like this memorable conversation.

"Hey, Ralph! How's it going?"

"Oh, could be worse," Ralph replied jovially. "Could be younger, could be healthier."

"Could be quieter," I thought.

"Could be sick. Could be dead."

"Please?" I thought. (Yes, I'm joking. Have to put that in before 'Waste goes on a self-righteous tirade about what a horrible person I am for wishing someone dead.)

And just on and on and on. Unnecessary blather about nothing. I admit, I have a very low tolerance for non-talk, but this seemed especially egregious.

What do the gym rats on this thread think? Is there a reasonable expectation of peace and quiet in a sauna, therefore giving me the right to say something? Or should I just remove myself and come back later, hoping they're gone when I do?

No, you shouldn't let your kid wander around restaurants.

Yes, the guy was a prick.

However, what about the waiting area? I see nothing wrong with letting kids wander around in the waiting area before catching a flight, as long as they're not running, getting into the way or making a lot of noise.

That's why I think the guy over-reacted. It didn't seem to be about the kid making a ruckus or being loud, it was "interacting." So (removing the restaurant-specific issues) a two-year old comes up to you and says "hello" and your response is to call him and his parents out to the entire restaurant? You're the one with the problem.

First, I will admit that generally I do not like other people's ill-mannered crotch spawn. When my girls were little I could monitor them in public and if they were becoming restless or annoying, I could remove them and discipline as needed. I can't do that with other people's children. Chris and his wife were so far out of line allowing their toddler to toddle around a restaurant. A restaurant is one of the last places a kid should be on the loose, safety being the number one reason, and not being a nuisance to your fellow diners is another. Had they controlled their child, the asshat wouldn't have had anything to complain about. They could have let the little booger run around outside in the airport to get some of the ants out of his pants before going in to sit down. Maybe that guy was on the flight with Chris and his family, and the kid wasn't any better behaved on the flight, and the guy had had enough of their kid's shenanigans. Sure the guy could have handled it better but Chris and his wife shouldn't have allowed their toddler to annoy the other patrons.

I used to work for an attorney whose offices were upstairs from the Irish pub he owned - god I loved working there. There were numerous times I caught some brat running through my office and I would walk the child downstairs to find their parents. I also witnessed numerous children running around the diningroom and patio seating area. I always wanted to tell those parents to put a leash on their kids. But because I worked for the owner, I never did. Parents like that think everyone adores their special little snowflake as much as they do. Newsflash...we don't! We don't want our meals interrupted and we really don't want their germy, grubby little hands touching us.

This was a fail for both parties. I agree, no toddling and certainly not with a fork! Geeze! But the reaction from the man was out of line too. This is what management is for. If I have a problem, I talk to the manager and let them handle it. Starting a fight in a restaurant is wrong too. At that point, it was probably worse and just as disruptive to the other custmers than the baby wandering around with a fork. If I was there at the time, I would quietly disapprove of the toddling (and the fork!) but a grown man yelling at a baby would have upset me.

Flynn, maybe it is bc I go to an all women's gym, but no I don't think the sauna is a quiet zone. Whenever I go in, there are usually two women talking. Furthermore, I think that when you are in a public space, you have to expect that there will be others who use it in a manner that differs from yours. Unless there is a sign on the door stating that the sauna is a quiet zone, I think there is nothing you can do. Maybe you could ask the gym's management what they think and if they agree, they can post a sign.

Sorry! I just realized it was Patrick who asked the gym question! The answer stands though. Public spaces require a lot of accommodation.

I worked as a server/manager/bartender for over 10 years. People in fact find it very permissible to let their children toddle/run/scream/overturn and generally create havoc because they are "enjoying" their meal and clearly think their little darlings are to be "tolerated" if not enjoyed. The amount of bad behavior I witnessed could fill a large volume. I became a parent I gave my child opportunities to be civil in a restaurant if she refused to sit and eat her food like a human being (as toddlers and small children are prone to do) she was removed or we got our food to go. My daughter is the apple of my eye. I think she is the most adorable smart incredible thing ever I however unlike most people do realize that I have a biased view and others don't feel that way!

I agree that both parties were wrong here. The kid shouldn't have been allowed to wander, but the man behaved like a child himself. Doe he say, "What makes you think I want to interact with you?" to everyone who has the misfortune of grabbing his attention? Why does he think it's OK to be rude to a child? I realize he didn't say that to the child, but the kid certainly heard it.

It seems some people are just itching to be indignant about other people's children. Nothing like a little righteous rage to get the blood pumping.

With a fork? Has this kid survived? If so, only by dumb luck.

Sheepmommy, thanks for your thoughtful reply to my question. Yes, I'm inclined to agree that the sauna hasn't quite made it to the point where there's an unwritten rule that it's a library quiet zone. Still one can always hope. And it is a nice, quiet place 90% of the time.

A pirate wet himself at the sight of a cow driving a car right into a telephone pole, so he went home and fixed himself a dry martini!

I am a 58 year old male with no biological children(my children are my stepchildren, now grown). Long ago I decided to celebrate infants, toddlers and teens as our future and am no longer bothered by most of what they can do. For example, Crying children in Church, I'm ok with that the alternative is a dying church.

My son is also two, and I've never had a complaint, and have actually had a few compliments on his behavior. That said, the only restaurant he's been to is Applebees, not exactly an adult haven of fine dining. (Hubby and I have been out other places, but that's what babysitters are for.) And he has toddled around the restaurant, because it was winter and we live in MN, but whenever he got antsy enough to toddle, his father or I walked with him, holding his hand, to make sure we could pick him up out the way in case of servers needing to get through, and to make sure he didn't bother other patrons. I figure it should have been the same with Chris and his wife. They were inside an airport, and couldn't really bring their kid outside; one of them should have been with the kid, not letting him wander on his own.

Parents with kids seem to want it every which way - letting a toddler run around with a fork, who would they sue if he fell and jammed it into his windpipe or eyeball?

With the current kiddy-diddler hysteria, are the parents really comfortable with letting their kid run around within reach of a bunch of strangers?

I don't blame the other diner for loudly proclaiming he didn't want anything to do with a young boy separated from his parents.

we heard another patron yelling: "What makes you think I'd want to interact with your son?"

He was yelling? seriously?

I'm gonna be charitable, and say the guy had a long flight, and had been felt up by unattractive The Stupid Agents (TSA), and that was his last nerve, and he just lost his shit.

But you are in a public place. There is no expectation of privacy. If a toddler waving a fork in your general direction is the worst that happens, you're doing OK. It's when they start throwing their food at you that it gets serious.

Agree with most here that you don't let a 2-year-old loose in a restaurant. But obviously the angry patron's parents never taught HIM manners.

I actually am happy to see kids in public because that is where they learn to behave in public.

A few months ago, there was a kiddo in a booth behind me and my boyfriend who kept trying to play peek-a-boo with us. My boyfriend and I indulged him for about a minute, but then realized he wasn't quitting. We wanted a relaxing dinner. So I smiled at the kid, asked him his name and said, "I'm sorry, Jack, we can't play with you right now, we have to eat our dinners!"

His mom apologized and then distracted her kid.

Easy.

Had the kid or mom protested, we'd have just asked the server to be moved. People who get that upset about things like this need a hobby.

As I've mentioned before I've got two young kids (ages 6 & 3). I also dislike children who are not my own. So, I can reasonably see this from both sides...

A 2 year old isn't a grubby-pawed chubby-cheeked toddler. They understand and can use words. Heck, some can use a toilet without help! So, the parents should have told him how to behave, expected him to behave, and kept an eye on him to enforce behaving.

Also, "playfully waving a fork," is a load of crap. Kids are often stronger than people realize. Forks are capable of stabbing. Would it be okay if the kid "playfully waved a knife" at somebody or in general? Sure, it's not AS dangerous, but in the guy's shoes, I'd be worried about 3 things. One, that the kid would hurt him/herself or trip a server & people would assume I was the parent OR the parents would accuse me of causing the injury. Second, that the kid would decide to stab me or my food with said fork. Third, if the kid got too close, I'd be worried about being accused of being too friendly, as it were, with a kid. After all, kids that age do not have any personal-space and very few inhibitions.

That said, if the writer is NOT exaggerating, then he overreacted. A strongly worded, "I cannot watch your child for you, please keep him at your table," should have sufficed. If the kid was annoying me (and I'll believe the kid was doing this for awhile before the parents clued-in), I may have stood up and said, "Excuse me? Does anybody know whose child this is? He seems to be lost." If I was feeling like being an ass, I might just ask the manager to get security for a lost child.

Of course, there is no reason one HAS to let a kid toddle around anywhere. Who is the adult here? The kid needs to move, you go someplace where that's okay & safe. All but the teensiest of airports will have SOME gate that's nearly empty. Heck, there are even parts of concourses where at times there's so few people (like, ten total) that I've seen parents have power-walking races with their kids or improvise hop-scotch without getting in anybody's way.

The number of times I or my husband have taken a kid out of a kid-friendly restaurant to prevent annoying behavior, it baffles me that in more adult and more dangerous places, other parents don't think of this. We can take them to rather adult places, so long as we plan well... and I find it hard to believe that while flying they didn't have an abundance of distractions available. Cellphone games/videos, crayons, small toys...

Speaking of conversations we wish we didn't have to listen to -

Last evening, the only late evening for the SoS offices in MI, I'm sitting and waiting to renew my license when I hear one (overweight) teen behind me describing to another (overweight) teen sitting next to her just how exactly and for how long her boyfriend had bitten her in (an intimate location, of which she obviously had 2), the night before. This wasn't a whispered confidence, but a conversation carried on at normal levels.

Couldn't decide whether to turn around and say 'Oh, really? Show me so I can see how bad it was!' or put my helmet back on to drown out the conversation. What should I have done?

llarer,

llamas

Our delightful grown-up daughter was the toddler from Hell. We would take her outside, we would leave early, we would distract her with toys, but basically, we just didn't go out to dinner. We could occasionally get away with going to a large, noisy Chinese place in the SGV, where she could be fairly loud and no one would mind, but we didn't let her roam the pampas, fork in hand.
But the OP--how many kids does she have? Has she really not thought about this before?

My wife and I have a wonderful 3-year old boy who acts in restaurants the same way he acts at home during dinner--horrible. When he was a baby he was such a delight to take out that we went out quite frequently.

When he was about 2 1/2 we took him to a local brew-pub for lunch. He acted very badly and my wife got very upset. I looked around and noticed lots of babies and older kids, but no toddlers. I then realized what all the other responsible parents had--during the toddler years, restaurants were "off limits".

When he starts behaving--consistently--at home during meals he'll be allowed in restaurants again. Until then we'll get babysitters.

In places like airports we just don't have a choice. Wouldn't you rather have a kid running around the airport (hopefully burning off energy) than inside the plane? Thank goodness for airports with kids play areas!

Let the feast begin!

When my eldest son was a toddler, he had to say hello to every single table at a restaurant and goodbye when we left. It only happened about three times before he was over it, but it was really embarrassing. He cried if we missed a single table. He just didn't understand why he greated everyone at school, parties, and family gatherings, but not restaurants. As a toddler, you are expected to love on a lot of relatives that are virtual strangers.

One difference may be that I carried him in my arms another may be that I apologized, however most people acted delighted to see him. He lit up and so did the restaurant patrons. So many people said that he was the cutest little boy that they had ever seen (talk about positive reinforcement )

He soon learned what was appropriate and what was not. I guess I was lucky and people were always understanding. I did take our boys outside to run or cry. I heard one complaint (unrelated) and tons of compliments.

I don't have a problem with a kid walking by and saying "hi," but much more than that (unless further social contact is extended from the people the kid is "visiting") is interrupting.

Our family went out to have some nice family time and ran into some people we knew. Their kid (same age as our youngest) kept coming over to our table, interrupting our family's conversation, wanted to sit with us at one point, and was a major distraction for OUR kids who were NOT allowed to get up unless given permission (at home, the only way you get up w/o being excused is to use the bathroom or if you accidentally dropped/spilled something and are going to clean it up).

While I understand people have a right to dine uninterrupted, this was an extreme overreaction on the part of the offended patron.

Had he not acted like a complete asshat, I would have apologized profusely, perhaps even bought him an after dinner coffee.

However, since he had shown all the manners of a water buffalo, I would have given him the longest, loudest lecture on parenting and manners known to man, and done my best to embarrass him.

Frightening a child under any circumstance is unacceptable. As is haranguing waitresses for the conduct of other patrons.

Even the best parents have their moments, and the best of children have off days. A little patience and understanding frequently teaches children better manners by example then the most well meaning of lectures, which this certainly was not.

I would call your attention to GOG_MAGOG’s statement: “I don't blame the other diner for loudly proclaiming he didn't want anything to do with a young boy separated from his parents.”
In the current legal and litigious/false accusation court culture I might do the same, not being a jerk, but loud enough, that others could witness that I wanted the child away from me as soon as it made contact.
All it takes is a Mom thinking I touched her bundle of joy and my life is screwed.

"We had to let our two-year-old toddle around the restaurant a little."

Lost me there too.

Aside from annoying other diners, there are plenty of hazards if you get underfoot of a server -- burning hot liquids, falling glassware and cutlery.

And if the child got injured, guess who will sue?

"When you're dining out, you aren't there to teach manners to another person's child, through "a little patience and understanding" or otherwise."

True.

However, all it takes is a moment of patience, which to me doesn't seem like that much of an effort. I am biased however, I adore children.

Frightening a child under any circumstance is unacceptable. Period.

While I don't condone the parents behavior, the patron was out of line. It wouldn't have cost the patron anything at all to ask the child where his parents were, or to ask the waitress to escort the child back to his table.

I can think of quite a few fathers who wouldn't have taken the patrons behavior so lightly.

"All it takes is a Mom thinking I touched her bundle of joy and my life is screwed."

Although you make a good point, have we really gotten that suspicious as a society?

Sad.

"In the current legal and litigious/false accusation court culture I might do the same, not being a jerk, but loud enough, that others could witness that I wanted the child away from me as soon as it made contact. All it takes is a Mom thinking I touched her bundle of joy and my life is screwed."

Interesting point from Piper. That could explain it.

Anyway, there are various stages in the "can your kid go to a restaurant" continuum:

1. Sleep in the car seat. (OK. Take advantage of it. It won't last.)

2. Bring your own baby food/spoon. (Not advisable, but OK assuming your kid is a good eater and not grabby. It's actually an underrated stage.)

3. High chair with finger foods, most of which will end up on the floor. (Requires a LOT of mitigation, so unless you're willing to pick up the food yourself, not OK. It's not fair to the wait staff, in my opinion.)

4. The dreaded: "I now fully realize that I am capable of crawling, climbing, grabbing to get to whatever shiny object fascinates me right now, BUT I haven't developed language skills" stage. This is when the kid is either screaming or trying to escape the high chair or both. (NOT OK, but can be mitigated in an emergency with a "can we have a side of fries as soon as possible" request as you're being seated.)

At any point, these non-verbal kids need to be removed immediately if they can't keep it together, which brings me to #5, the make-or-break stage:

5. Anything after the kid develops rudimentary language skills and thus understands the word "NO".

Once they understand "NO" there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to come to a restaurant and behave themselves. I don't care how "rambunctious" they are, they should be able to sit in their seats, not make a mad amount of noise, and not make a mess.

However, all it takes is a moment of patience, which to me doesn't seem like that much of an effort. I am biased however, I adore children.

Although I don't "adore" children, I do agree with this. If I see an adult looking lost, I'll quickly ask if they need directions.

Well, little kids are often socially lost. And sometimes they need quick, helpful pointers so they learn their way. I remember kicking someone's seat on a plane when I was little. Dad had gotten up to take my sis to the bathroom so he wasn't there to correct me. The lady in front of me turned around and said, "Hey hon, it hurts when you kick my seat." It was a gentle bit of guidance and it reminded me that my behaviors affected others. And it took her only a second.

A little patience and understanding frequently teaches children better manners by example

Yes! If you're rude to a kid, they'll just learn to be rude and continue terrorizing everyone. This jerk in the restaurant just taught the kid that tantrums are OK.

"Aside from annoying other diners, there are plenty of hazards if you get underfoot of a server -- burning hot liquids, falling glassware and cutlery."

Oh gads, those trays make for huge blindspots too. I once tripped over a toddler who was playing next to the kitchen doors while I was carrying drinks and coffee for 12. I don't know whose guardian angel was working overtime but I managed to stay upright and not drop anything on me or the kid. All that heavy glassware and scalding coffee - I still get a little freaked out when I think about what *could* have happened.

wtf: Frightening a child under any circumstance is unacceptable. Period.

To be perfectly frank, that was an extremely dumb thing to say. Children ought to be afraid of things that can hurt them. And parents do need to instill the fact that there are dangerous things in this world that they need to avoid.

And if it comes down to a choice between scaring a child away from me so that it runs back to its mother, versus me being charged with touching a child, you're damned straight I will scare that child.

So, you can get a cow to shove a telephone pole up your ass.

3. High chair with finger foods, most of which will end up on the floor. (Requires a LOT of mitigation, so unless you're willing to pick up the food yourself, not OK. It's not fair to the wait staff, in my opinion.)

Our son is not quite to this stage, but going out with friends who do have toddlers, I have no problem with telling the server, "This could get messy, but you'll well provided for."

I worked in the service industry for years. Messy kids never bothered me. Clueless parents did.

Patrick, I have wonderful, though trivial conversations with all sorts of people in the hot tub at my club. I shy away from the political but not, "what the hell happened to the Giants this year?"
I think it's very similar to the pub. There are people who legitimately just want to have a pint and be left alone but I can't blame the boisterous conversationalists who turn to the stool next to them and try, at least once, to engage strangers in the collective conversation. I think there's middle ground between boorish conversation and resentfully reading a book in the corner, annoyed that all this public life going on around you is ruining your concentration.

"Get off my lawn!" "If that Frisbee, er fork comes on my property one more time, I'm keeping it!"

It is interesting that you didn't want to comment directly to the post by Chris's wife's . You are usually very direct to rude, clueless people.

Do they get to a pass on boorish behavior just because you know Chris?

"Were we being bad parents? Had we broken an unwritten rule ('Don't let you [sic] kids make eye contact with strangers'?)"

First question: Yes. Yes you were.

Second question: There's a big difference between eye contact and fork-wielding.

Derp.

"Although you make a good point, have we really gotten that suspicious as a society?

Sad."

Yes, and it is sad.

My fiancé has a deaf nephew, so he knows sign language. He signed "hello, how are you?" to a little deaf boy in a store once, and the mother came raging at him as if he were revving a chainsaw at the kid.

Jay: It is interesting that you didn't want to comment directly to the post by Chris's wife's . You are usually very direct to rude, clueless people.

I actually noticed that, too. I also noticed that Amy said in her initial post that she didn't want to "attack" them then and there.

Why is answering a question, even if the answer is something that the questioner won't like, "attacking" them?

Smurfy, thanks for your response. I don't usually have people trying to drag me into a conversation in the sauna. When it happens, I simply give short answers, which effectively communicates that I'm not interested in maintaining a conversation.

The problem is that the steam room is somewhat echoey, too. So, to maintain a conversation to be certain you're understood, you might need to get a little loud. Add to the fact that some of these people are seniors with diminished hearing, and you get the idea.

Short conversations of few words I can manage. It's when it gets loud about things that people get passionate about that annoy me.

But, ah, well. That's two people who believe that saunas/steamrooms are not designated quiet zones. I guess I'll have to learn to live with it.

And as I said before, it's not like it happens all the time.

People drive to work in telephone poles, not cows. Water is pirate, not cars. And milk comes from dry, not wet.

I've never laid a hand on my children in anger. I spanked my oldest daughter about 3x in her entire life, and she's a perfect angel now.

But in spite of my unwillingness to lay a hand on them in anger, angry dadu is all it takes for them to calm down very quickly.

The idea that children should not feel fear is like suggesting that children should not feel shame, or pain, or sadness, or anything else unpleasant in the continuum of the human experience...in short, that is a stupid fucking opinion.

A child caught stealing ought to feel ashamed
A child thinking about misbehaving or throwing a tantrum ought to be afraid of the consequences

A child not allowed to fall down and scrape their knee will never learn how to deal with the pains that happen growing up, you can't wrap children in bubble wrap and then expect them to be well adjusted capable adults.

A child not allowed a moment of sadness will grow up to be an adult that can't handle unhappiness.

All of these things should be permitted in moderation, and not as a constant, but suggesting that any of them should be absent from life is unutterably ridiculous.

Ohmygoth, what Robert said.

Yes, this.

I don't know-it was an airport restaurant, not a Michelin starred hot spot. They said the kid toddled around their table, not all over the restaurant. So I think, unless the situation was misrepresented here, I would have given a piece of my mind. Just because someone may not like kids-or people in general-doesn't mean they get to have some sort of psychic bubble around them to avoid all interaction in public.

The kid probably wasn't afraid of what the guy was saying. More likely if he raised his voice (or had a angry-guy deep voice going on), THAT frightened the kid. From the sound of it, he wasn't TRYING to frighten the kid, the kid got frightened (probably going, "angry guy here... where's Mom & Dad?").

Kids understand many words by 12 months (barring medical issues) even if they can't speak. Once a kid is 12 months old, even if they don't understand (or obey) a "no" it is incumbent upon the parents to USE it so the kid DOES learn.

My kids were early speakers, but they have some late-speaker friends. I can tell you those kids understood just as well as my kids. Cooperation around age 2, but some understanding by age 1. So, unless the kid is a prodigy at walking, if he's toddling age, he should be told "no" even if he doesn't "get" it.

To hell with is this politie crap. Its not safe to toddle around a restaurant.

I used to work as a dish dog in a major chain restaurant. Don't let anyone under four feet tall wander aimlessly. (Yes, this means drunk midgets too). It's not safe. Between dish dogs carrying heavy bus tubs (sometimes with broken dishes) or wait staff carrying hot food, I would define letting your kids run around a restaurant as somewhat dangerous.

It would really suck if your kid had to be hospitalized because they ran into a waitperson with a hot pot of coffee.

"When he starts behaving--consistently--at home during meals he'll be allowed in restaurants again. Until then we'll get babysitters."

THIS, THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!!!

Socialization starts at HOME. If your kid can't sit through a meal at home, he's certainly not ready to be in a restaurant. Period.

I agree with all here who said "who lets their child toddle around?"

However, I disagree who those who said the guy over-reacted.

Sorry; but, who is telling the story here? The mother of the little one "toddling around harming no one" and the woman who really "wants to give him (the other patron) a piece of her mind."

She didn't really say for how long her toddler was toddling around now did she? Or how much of a major pain the ass her kid really is.

Nope, clearly there is no bias on the part of this mother, now is there? (

And lastly, I agree with Amy, dessert on the parents' tab sent over to the other patron was in order.

As a parent of a couple of toddlers, my comment on this is...they zoned out for several seconds, and yet the kid was still in the restaurant? Mine would have been out of the restaurant into the terminal, into a gate, onto a plane and probably off to Bali in that timeframe. Where are these toddlers with "amble" mode in addition to "not moving" and "warp speed?"

Also, there were two adults, one kid. The adults could have taken turns walking the child around the restaurant while the non-walking adult sat, rested and figured out what to order. Never been an option for us -- we went straight to man-to-man over here. As one of my fellow moms of multiples has been known to say, I don't want to hear about how "hard" it is to take care of your one baby.

We occasionally take our children to restaurants -- restaurants with a lot of other children around, with a generally casual ambiance. We feed them before we go and eat quickly. We have generally been fine. (NO forks. Spoons and straws. We tip well.) We have flown with our children -- if they were moving independently in the airport (as opposed to being pushed in a stroller) they were holding the hand of an adult. This despite going straight from adults-only to man-to-man. We're not superheroes -- we just try to think about the consequences of our actions. We're not perfect, but we work at it. (And you know what? We thoroughly enjoy having kids and enjoy the fact that we had more than one at once. Hmmmm...)

Do I think the other patron over-reacted? Somewhat. His poor overworked server didn't need to hear about it, for example. And if you're going to be in an airport, there will be kids, and some of them might try to catch your eye. If that's the worst thing that happens to you while flying, you're not suffering too terribly, given the state of air travel today. But the real issue I have with this guy's reaction is that fact that it was overdone enough that it caused these parents' mortification to morph into indignation. Had he just said, in a frosty tone, "Excuse me, I'm sure you think your son is adorable, but I'd like to enjoy my meal in peace," glared at them until they came to retrieve their son, and gone back to eating, they would have found it much harder to justify their "oh woe are we with our poor persecuted bebe!" attitude.

And on the flip side of all that....Most toddlers are not super-awesome travelers (to say the least). Maybe their son has never cried on a plane and has generally been angelic -- can't say that about ours, sigh. Given that, we try to be careful to limit their impact on those around them when we can, partially by not flying often, but also by, the rare times we have flown, by trying to make them as inconspicuous and cheerful as we can when that's possible. During landing of the plane, when the fascinating tray table has to be put up and the iPad shut off? Can be difficult. At a restaurant on the ground in an airport? Much more feasible.

Screw those parents. No one wants to deal with little kids running around in places where you want to quietly sit and enjoy what you are doing.

I know, nearly every parent thinks their kids should be free but if an adult shouldn't be doing it, neither should the kid. What if the mom or dad were running around the restaurant bothering other people? Would that be acceptable? No. Parents need to remember there are rules and if their kid can't follow them then they need to be left at home.

I wish the kid got hurt, so the parents would have learned THEIR lesson. NOTE: I don't mean poked his eye out, something more like scraped knee.

On a related note:

DEAR ABBY: My 2-year-old granddaughter, Brayleigh, is friendly and outgoing. If you see us in the grocery store, she will probably smile at you and say, "Hi." She would love it if you smiled back and said it too, but please, resist the urge to touch her.

Your kids or grandkids may giggle when you play "got your nose" or "tickle your belly" with them, but that's because they know and trust you. You are a total stranger to Brayleigh, even if you know me. While you may mean well, imagine a total stranger rushing up and putting their hands all over you! Abby, how about passing along the message? -- BRAYLEIGH'S GRANDMA

Did the kid walk up to the guy's table and try to have a conversation? If so I understand why he was annoyed.

Or was the kid waving his fork at him from across the restaurant? If so, the dude is psycho.

Was the kid wandering around the restaurant, or just around the table? Sometimes tables near a wall or in a corner have a little free space around them.

Need more info to judge.

I've got one beef with the conversation here. A few comments have said things suggesting that all parents behave this way, or think their children are so wonderful everybody should "get" to enjoy them, etc. Yet, there are plenty of parents here who are saying the exact opposite.

Please stop putting the good parents in with the bad, folks!

On a positive note for those parents with toddlers, a local brew pub here in San Diego has a "Family Night" each week when parents are welcome to bring their kids. I hope this trend grows, and also hope that those who take advantage of it tip the staff mightily!

Obviously, if you're not okay with kids it would probably be best to avoid said pub those nights.

But the real issue I have with this guy's reaction is that fact that it was overdone enough that it caused these parents' mortification to morph into indignation. Had he just said, in a frosty tone, "Excuse me, I'm sure you think your son is adorable, but I'd like to enjoy my meal in peace," glared at them until they came to retrieve their son, and gone back to eating, they would have found it much harder to justify their "oh woe are we with our poor persecuted bebe!" attitude.

by marion
_____________________________________

Absolutely. As many have said over the years, you can blow off steam or you can get adults to change their bad (or neglectful) mental attitudes, but very seldom both. So choose.

Not to mention that the above polite scenario would be quite effective at convincing parents that you're not a molester - or a screaming, child-hating monster, for that matter. (Some parents, unfortunately, think it's cute when their toddler IS in fact harassing or hurting an adult, with or without a fork, so to those parents, any yelling adult is just as evil as a molester - and it makes the parents all the angrier to know they can't get a man arrested for yelling, usually.)

Oh, did you see THIS comment?

Mel65 • 3 days ago

"I have three children and as a military family we've traveled all over the world. It's one thing for your kids to be around other people, it's another to 'inflict' your kids on other people. In the anecdote above... why on earth was your 2 YEAR OLD wandering around a restaurant with a fork UNSUPERVISED? A child at a nearby table thought it was hilarious to keep walking over to me and smacking my arm and laughing. The parents laughed and "awww"d and looked at me as if inviting me to enjoy the fun. I wasn't.............I smile at babies and I offer to hold them for overwhelmed parents; but obnoxious, spoiled, unsupervised or uncontrolled kids make me want to slap.............their parents."

I like the suggestion to make a general announcement "Someone please call security. We have a lost child here!"
That should embarrass the parents enough to retrieve the child and be diligent to avoid future humiliating incidents.
Kurt Vonnegut said that even if we beat all the swords into plowshares, we could still embarrass each other to death.

lenona's comment that "Some parents, unfortunately, think it's cute when their toddler IS in fact harassing or hurting an adult," is painfully true.

I had a relative with an approximately 4-year-old we were visiting for a couple days when I was about 17. The kid wanted to "tell me a secret" and then screamed in my ear. Parent did... nothing. The parent was IN the room, right there. As a 17 year old I was too old to retaliate but also not in a place to parent in front of the actual parent. Fine, the parent wasn't in "parent mode," whatever. A few minutes later, this child wanted to tell me another "secret" and I said, "no." The child badgered me and badgered me until the parent got annoyed. Did the parent tell the kid to do something else? To take my "no" as an answer? Nope. The parent chided me, "Oh, just let him tell you the secret all ready!" When my jaw dropped to the floor it was, "It won't stop until you do." I excused myself from the table.

Okay, maybe this wasn't exactly getting a laugh out of it, but I think when this sort of thing happens the parent is going on some internal level, "Oh look, s/he's attached to somebody else right now. How... nice." And that comes across as them thinking it's nice or cute.

Robert-

Yes, children should feel shame at having stolen.

This child had done nothing wrong, except be a child. The idea that you have the right to frighten a child that disturbs you is ludicrous. Especially so when you consider that the patron was not the parent. We should teach children to fear all adults? It is hypocritical to say that it isn't your job to teach children manners, then turn around and say it is your right to teach children fear.

Patrick, are you on your period?

They have pills for that. I suggest you take some.

Amy the article doesn't say the kid wandered over to the other table. In fact the way its worded it sounds like he stuck around hus own table... Thats why I need more info.

As for wandering, its a cultural thing. I think theres some truth to the cliche of southern cultures being more tolerant of kids. There are immigrant family owned restaurants around here with the owners kids and grand kids running around saying hi to patrons. Other restaurants are more straight laced. Look around and act accordingly and if your kud cant handle the ambiance duck out, as I did today when the meal got too long and kiddi got antsy. We let the others have coffee and went outside

"I wish the kid got hurt"

Are you fucking serious?

I wish you'd get run over by a bus a couple dozen times. It's comments like this that make me lose faith in the world.

Technology is great, but don't ignore the kids: Column

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/07/14/katrina-trinko-on-bubbles-and-kids/2516291/

From the late George Carlin:

http://edfoundation.com/Ublog/blog_commento.asp?blog_id=179&month=5&year=2008&giorno=&archivio=
(short piece on early boarding with children on planes - it appears in the book "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?")

Last paragraph:

"And now, we ask that you please gather your precious creatures around you, and, when you hear the whistle, see to it that they move smartly and swiftly onto the plane, remaining quiet and avoiding any eye contact with grown-ups. Thank you for flying the friendly skies of Sensible Airlines."

(For those who don't know, Carlin DID have a daughter - Kelly - but fatherhood clearly didn't make him any more sentimental.)