If you were never taught how to change the oil in a car, it only makes sense to watch other people do it first before trying it yourself.

However, whether you're male or female, it's self-crippling to refuse to LEARN that skill on the grounds that you have the money to pay someone else, because 1) there will come a day when you need to do it in a hurry and no one's available, and 2) you can't always count on having enough savings for every little service, which is why it's important to be as frugal and self-sufficient as possible and thus save for those things you simply can't do - such as performing surgery on yourself.

Disagree. I am never, ever going to learn to change my oil. I choose to focus all my time on reading, writing, thinking, researching and pay people to do things that anyone can do. Also, I drive a Honda and it costs $25-$30 to have your oil changed. Changing it myself will kill a writing afternoon and be no fun. Also, I'm not an expert on cars and could muck something up.

Just understanding the principle is enough. I have had the oil drain plug come out because the quick lube guy left it loose. This happened at night on a dark road. Being able to put it back in and get home saved a lot of time and expense. Thanks again to friends who will bring you 5 quarts of oil at midnight.

Most people tend to denigrate skills they do not possess.

There all all sorts of quasi intellectual justifications for not learning how to do something.

I find myself in agreement with Lenona. Struggling with something, to learn a new skill, is often better than passing tasks off on the experts.

This is how you grow as a person.

There are places where it is wise to draw the line. I don't work on wiring in my house. That can get you killed. However, overcoming small challenges and frustrations builds both character and intellect.

It has nothing to do with feminism. Intellectual feminists think all manual labor is beneath them. They want to live the life of the mind, and struggling with technology exposes their incompetence, and their Nihilism.

My father works for a non-profit organization that provides services for mentally-challenged and disabled people. His job is to go around and fix things in the units in which they live. However, he says a couple of lesbians were put in charge and they could not stand to ask him for help, so they would attempt to do those tasks themselves. But they always wind up having to call him, usually days after they've failed at fixing whatever it was that was broken. He says it's not good for them to feel like they don't need men because they needed men to get here in the first place.

I'm all for learning a new skill. I've learned how to change my tires and my oil, how to diagnose and fix my own computer if a minor tech issue occurs and how to do my own taxes. I still pay someone else to do that stuff even though I'm capable of doing it myself. I don't think it makes me any more or less of a "feminist" nor does it show an unwillingness to "grow". Simply put: I have better things to do with my already limited time and there are people that are more knowledable than me who make a living doing that stuff. The way I look at it, it's a win-win...

However, as willing as I am to learn a new skill... killing spiders is and will always be mans work.
Always.

I find myself in agreement with Lenona. Struggling with something, to learn a new skill, is often better than passing tasks off on the experts.

I agree with you, Isab, but it's not like Amy isn't taking on new skills (e.g., the radio show), it's that she is choosing which ones to concentrate on, and changing the oil isn't one of them.

I tend to push my comfort zone regularly, but there is also efficiency built into division of labor. My husband handles the irrigation system, for example. I am perfectly capable of learning how to run our sprinklers but why bother? He also handles computer maintenance and audio video equipment. I am a trained electrical engineer and I build instruments for telescopes for a living so I can certainly learn to set up the DVR but the difference is that he likes doing that stuff and I find it dull as hell.

I think I spent $35 on gas last year, total, while writing the book, and I'm starting on my next and expect more of the same.

DRIVE IT MORE!

You've got to drive that thing more often than that, we've talked about that. :)

I am never, ever going to learn to change my oil.

If that's a analysis of your time, that's fine. If it's a goal, that's bad. Never say "I'll NEVER learn (whatever)."

Now, if it's on your list, far enough down it's not likely, that's one thing. But changing the oil isn't hard (takes about 20 minutes), but more importantly, it helps you understand what you need to know - like partially, why you need to be driving far more than 1 gas tank a year, or even why you need to not let gas sit in the tank, _especially_ with ethanol.

(You are using Sta-bil, right? Please? At least?)

and pay people to do things that anyone can do.

I don't think you mean to be insulting, but that's quite possible to take it that way. Oil changing isn't that hard, difficult, or technical.

Normally.

You're driving a car with a magnesium sump. If you don't know that those torque specifications are *very specific* and important - and I've never once seen ANYBODY ever use a torque wrench to put a oil drain plug back in..... You might want to know that, and specify that to whoever is changing your oil. Because "anybody can do it" doesn't mean they'll do it well, or pay attention (or look up) any specifics. They change dozens of cars a day, what do you mean we need a torque wrench, where the hell is one, and is that foot/pounds or inch/pounds??

Also, I drive a Honda and it costs $25-$30 to have your oil changed. Changing it myself will kill a writing afternoon and be no fun.

My rule of thumb - for almost everything - is once I know how to do it, I don't mind paying someone else to do it for me. I have an idea of the effort required (and thus if their rates are reasonable), and what time I'm trading.

But you're missing the understanding of HOW stuff works, and why you need to drive 30 minutes *at least* a month, *especially* in that car.

If I've not persuaded you thus far, then take what I'm saying as gospel truth.

DRIVE THE CAR MORE. YOU NEED TO. IT WILL DAMAGE IT NOT DRIVING THAT MUCH.

(I'll save all the explanations of why, since you're not convinced that you need to know them. :) )

I also am not going to learn how to remove my own appendix, in case I'm caught in a snowstorm in a cabin somewhere

That's what Youtube is for.

Amy, you'd never make it in my family, whose motto is " Never pay someone to do something that you can do yourself". :)

I'm with Amy and Astra on this one.

I may "know" how to do many things, but time is a resource just as money is. Additionally, as Paul B. indicated there is a cultural aspect as well.

I don't kill spiders (I'm never in the same universe as they are for more than a millisecond.) and I don't do car stuff (although I have used a paper clip to reattach a carburetor spring at midnight in the middle of nowhere).

I'm not afraid to ask my wife for help (see spiders as above) or to call a service man (who are usually pirates at heart sensing "bounty") when the washing machine breaks.

I am Man and hear me snore.

My wife and I are very much DIY types of people. We did a lot of the work on our house ourselves, and at some point we've had our hands on nearly aspect of it. We've poured concrete, put in landscaping, done framing, wiring, and plumbing; finished drywall and floors, painted, finished woodwork, installed doors and door hardware. There's hardly anything in our house where we didn't do at least some of the work.

That said, I have to know my limits -- both what I'm capable of, and what I'm interested in doing. For instance, I do wiring, and I will happily run circuits and install outlets and switches all day. But I will not install panels or service entrances, because I don't have the skills or training to do so and be confident that I've done a safe job. And I know how to do roofing and I can do minor repairs, but when the day comes that the house needs a new roof, I will gladly hire someone. Why? Because roofing, quite frankly, is a miserable, uncomfortable job and it's well worth it to me to pay someone else to do it.

However, even in that case, I still know what a roof does, how it works, and what kind of maintenance it needs. And we can draw a parallel to Amy's oil change job here -- Amy may not know how to change the oil in a car, but she knows what the oil is for, basically, and that it needs to be changed on a set maintenance schedule. She also knows that if the OIL light comes on, that's bad and the car needs to be towed in. And those are the two essential things for a car owner to know about the oil. The rest, you can either do yourself or pay someone to do it, whichever way you are inclined.

Contrary to what Heinlien said, in an advanced civiliation no one can be an expert on everything; there just aren't enough hours in a day. It is, however, necessary for citizens to to least know what certain things are for, why they are necessary, and what has to be done for their maintenance and upkeep. And I'm not just talking about mechanical things here. The root cause for us having this debate is that we have so many citizens today that are woefully ignorant of the basic principles of Western civilization, and therefore they do not help in performing the basic upkeep of that civilization (in fact, a fair number of them seem determined to monkey-wrench it just for the thrill of being a vandal, not realizing that dire personal consequences await them if they succeed). In a way, we're all dancing on the heads of pins in this thread, trying to define the 99th percentile of skill when so many of our fellow citizens are so woefully ignorant (or mal-educated) and completely useless.

Progressives believe evolution stopped at the neckline.

Reality says otherwise.

Statistically speaking, women have comparatively little inclination towards things mechanical. Even now, despite decades of feminism and widely accepted equal opportunity, any occupation with the word "mechanic" attached to it is at least 97% male. Or electrician, or carpenter, etc.

Moreover, women's strengths lie elsewhere. In realm of mechanical reasoning, the difference between the mean male and female distributions is equal to about one standard deviation. Roughly speaking, that means a significant proportion of men (starting at one SD to the right of the male mean) has more mechanical aptitude than nearly all women.

Virtually all the women I have ever known are techtards (okay, that was harsh, but once I thought of it I had to use it). Almost all men I know have a pretty good idea what goes on in a car; almost all women's knowledge stops at "there's a funny noise. Make it stop."

That's OK. They have other things to be good at. Like civilizing men.

Today's horse industry is dominated by women. That's been a good thing. Very few women attempt my line of work, though-- keeping shoes on their horses.

However, as willing as I am to learn a new skill... killing spiders is and will always be mans work.

Always.

Do you live in Maryland? I can come over and show you how to drown them in the toilet.

Virtually all the women I have ever known are techtards (okay, that was harsh, but once I thought of it I had to use it). Almost all men I know have a pretty good idea what goes on in a car; almost all women's knowledge stops at "there's a funny noise. Make it stop."

That's OK. They have other things to be good at. Like civilizing men.

Posted by: Jeff Guinn at May 20, 2014 11:49 AM

That has been my experience as well, and part of it has to do with spacial relationships. However, the few women who gravitate towards technical tasks, tend to be rather good at it.
I don't intuitively know how stuff is put together, but once I teach myself how it works, I am pretty good at diagnosing issues.

My aunt was a math major during World War II who went to work as an engineer for Honeywell designing aircraft engines.

The mother of a close friend was a chemist for General Foods who was on the team that invented Tang.

I personally get a little annoyed, when some man assumes I am too big of an idiot to explain something technical to me.

And most of the time he would be right.

(However, you illustrate why "always" & "never" should be used with extreme caution.)

I wonder what the survivors of the zombie apocalypse, asteroid strike (a'la Lucifer's Hammer) or Dr. Trips will look like.

If the majority have no clue how to run a tractor, till a field, or do the basics they are useless. If you ever read Lucifer's Hammer the astronomers were assigned to pick rocks out of the field.

I can't rebuild an engine, but I know which end of a wrench to use. I couldn't do the plumbing for a whole house but have the basics.

I also know how computers, servers and networks work.

I never refuse to learn. I may never be a master in a topic, but I also don't put a limit on what knowledge could be important.

So when Amy says Disagree. I am never, ever going to learn to change my oil. that is just a disappointing limit she is imposing on herself.

I view feminists as fundamentally silly people.

It rather reminds me of a line from Game of Thrones. King Geoffry is in a meeting with his council and loses his temper over someone refusing him something, and he shouts 'I am the KING!'

To which his father says, 'Any man who needs to shout that, is no king.'

It makes me think that, if someone is my peer, my equal in ability, strength, whathaveyou, they will not need to declare it, their status will make itself obvious, manifesting in deeds and character. If they need to proclaim it, then it most likely is not so.

Hmm...

The new feminism: Being capable of fixing it yourself if you tried -- probably -- but smart enough to call a man when he can do it without as much effort.

And if the man is busy or simply disinclined, then what?

I wonder what the survivors of the zombie apocalypse, asteroid strike (a'la Lucifer's Hammer) or Dr. Trips will look like.

I am a fairly useless human being. The tasks that I can do well are typically not things that would be useful in a non-industrial society (though our currently society compensates for them rather well), with the exception of child-minding and being able to tolerate hardships with a decent level of stoicism (i.e. without too much whining). That's one of the reasons I married my husband. For reasons I won't go into here, he can fix anything, plan a strategy to address any problem, and grow food very effectively. In the case of a zombie apocalypse, I will be fine as his senior wife. (No, there are no other wives now, but in the case of a zombie apocalypse, he would be in high demand. But I would still be the *senior* wife.)

As we know, I can do anything*, but I'd rather pay someone else to do it. But my husband can also do anything, and he usually offers.
* Change oil, tires, air filters,, light bulbs, tampons.

Robert:

(Pssst: that's Joffrey's grandfather. :) )

KateC:

Now, that's dedication if you've got your husband changing the last item on that list.

My hat's off to him.

An aside, but you don't really understand computers until you have written and debugged something in assembly language. And that's a vanishing skill.

If you ever read Lucifer's Hammer the astronomers were assigned to pick rocks out of the field.

I always think of Asimov's Nightfall, when the astronomers are the first up against the wall for bringing on the apocalypse. I suppose we could be called upon to determine the seasons or something, but I suppose my hobbies would be more useful. I am a very good gardener and cook.

An aside, but you don't really understand computers until you have written and debugged something in assembly language. And that's a vanishing skill.

The hardest class I took in school (exceeding even graduate quantum) was an undergrad microprocessor programming class. We had full lectures, homeworks, midterms, etc. and on top of that, every week we had to program a Motorola 6811 to drive some hardware project (that we also built). The stepper motor-driven car was the hardest.

[Jim P:] So when Amy says Disagree. I am never, ever going to learn to change my oil. that is just a disappointing limit she is imposing on herself.

No, more like a male-female dichotomy.

One of my cars is 22 years old, and has 214,000 miles on the clock. Starting this weekend my son and I are going to replace the rear shocks, front struts, front control arms, all the sway bar links, drop the differential and rear suspension, replace all the associated bushings, replace brake lines/pads, and replace the transmission output shaft seal.

That is fairly standard car guy stuff. I'll bet there isn't one in 50,000 women who would even know I was talking about, never mind actually be willing and able to do it.

Why? It could be that virtually all women are simply intrinsically disinterested, and that this kind of work is often physically demanding.

No, wait, that can't be it. It has to be yet another example of hetero-normative patriarchal oppression.

Why is it that feminists never complain about the gender gap in car mechanics?