And that would have worked out how in these school shootings? There would have been, oh, five or 10 cops per school? Paid for by...?

Not the goddamn parents, that's for sure.

The most libertarian people turn into socialists when it comes to the education, transportation, feeding and public baby-sitting of their own children.

Children in schools are fantastically safe... Fantastically safe. They're much safer in school than out of it, which casts their fascination with school shootings in a different light.

"there's more than one way to stop a bad guy with a gun"

Really? What are the other ways? Is she including "pray that nothing bad happens" as an effective method?

Amy... Amy... We're only human....

When will you have software that lets us correct typos?

While I support concealed carry, I do have a theory on how we could cut down on these mass murders.
These nut jobs want their 15 minutes of fame. The news media needs to stop giving them weeks of 24/7 news coverage.

"But if it does take a good guy, then I want that good guy to be a police officer. "

File that whine under 'Ignore'.

"But if it does take a good guy, then I want that good guy to be a police officer." ~ Steinhoff

Gog, file it under naive and childish faith in government to solve any and all problems and absolutely no adult expectations that ordinary human beings will do so.

Wanna guess which way Steinhoff votes?

The worst US massacre took place in 1927. Things aren't worse now - just the publicity.

As a teacher, if I kept a gun secure enough that my students couldn't get to it, it would also be difficult fir me to access quickly. As we have begun to fear student shooters, our administration has put policies into place that strictly dictate what I must do as a teacher. In different circumstances I must hide students or exit through a certain door, etc. I must keep track of all students at all times. I would like the option of making the best decision that I know how to make at the time. It might be stay low and stay quiet. It might be climb out the window and run like hell. Unfortunately, I can be held liable for these decisions unless I follow protocol.

I'm afraid to let the kids climb out the window in case of an emergency. How could I justify firing a gun in their midst?

Which do you think will happen first:

Teacher successfully defends students against armed intruder.

Or

Student finds teachers gun and shoots another student?

Or maybe

Teacher snaps and starts shooting students...

I think people who plan on having police save them, have never experienced themselves being in real danger. Crises have a way of appearing instantaneous.

Jen, I hope the district's policies don't make it too onerous for you to stay in your job in good conscience.

"How could I justify firing a gun in their midst?"

When you've locked the door and you're between the kids and the shooter when he kicks it in, charges into the classroom, and starts blasting.

Or call the cops. Remember: when seconds count, they're only minutes away.

"But if it does take a good guy . . "

What a stupid statement, especially from a "teacher."

If it does take a good guy? - well, who else would it be? another bad guy? Or maybe divine intervention?

Clearly this is someone who didn't think before speaking.

"How could I justify firing a gun in their midst?"

When you've locked the door and you're between the kids and the shooter when he kicks it in, charges into the classroom, and starts blasting.

Or call the cops. Remember: when seconds count, they're only minutes away.

Posted by: Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at August 3, 2014 12:06 PM

Agreed Gog.

Contrary to popular belief, guns don't just spew bullets randomly in all directions although you might come to that conclusion watching your average police shoot out.

Like most other situations, just knowing that there is probably one or more people in a school trained with a gun, will be enough to deter crazies looking for an easy target.

I don't ever expect to actually have to shoot anyone with the unloaded gun, I carry in my purse. If I don't have the five seconds I need to inset the magazine, and slide the bolt home,, I am probably already dead anyway.

That's how I carry my gun too, or at least it's in the gun but not ready to go per se. I used to carry "cocked and locked" before having toddlers. Now I have concerns of curious grabby hands since I carry on me instead of my purse 90% of the time.

I'd be totally fine with armed teachers in schools. I'm definitely more comfortable with that option than having to rely on the police. It takes time to call 911, explain what's happening, give the address, and then wait for the police to show up. By that time you or others are likely dead. Heck, it took 10 minutes for paramedics to show up when my husband had a heart attack from the time I called and they were dispatched from 2 BLOCKS away. If I had to rely on calling for police in an emergency with a shooter or something similar that comes from even farther away I'm looking at 15-20 minutes. Significant damage can be done in that time.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with armed school staff.

Ohio's Buckeye Firearms Association even came up with a special, free, training program for handling such a situation.

The school district I live in all the buildings are on one campus. The police station is less than 1/2 a mile from the campus. But there are about a total of 10 full and part time cops. The town is also about three miles from the county border. So deputies are rarely nearby.

And as for the possibility of a teacher going irrational and shooting the school up. What is going to stop them with or without be allowed to carry?

Hey, look: "clinky" thinks (s)he is ineffective in personal defense. Right?

Think about this: if you were asked which nation pats down its people for wanting to fly on an airplane, installs police officers in their schools while calling those "resource officers" and calls prisoners held without bail "detainees", what nation would you think they were asking about?

Mr. (Mrs?) Radwaste:

Nowhere do I say that an armed teacher would be ineffective against an intruder. I just think that you have to be prepared for unintended consequences of arming thousands of teachers.

And your ancillary examples of the TSA and allowing police overreach are exactly what I am talking about. We let fear of a terrible but relatively infrequent occurrence (school shootings or terrorism) goad us into allowing responses that are not well thought out (armed teachers, the TSA).

And your ancillary examples of the TSA and allowing police overreach are exactly what I am talking about. We let fear of a terrible but relatively infrequent occurrence (school shootings or terrorism) goad us into allowing responses that are not well thought out (armed teachers, the TSA).

Posted by: clinky at August 3, 2014 8:01 PM

I don't see these two things as equivalent. Armed teachers or principals is more like an Air Marshal solution. Also schools are still run by states, and districts last I checked.

Now if federal law required armed teachers, I would oppose it, as I do almost all top down ones size fits all solutions (which is what the TSA is)

There is no one thing that will make people completely safe, but I am really opposed to solutions that do nothing but restrict law abiding people from defending themselves and their children. That was all the raft of additional guns laws after the Connecticut shooting did.

Not one damn law that they passed would have done anything to stop Adam Lanza or or others like him.

What's the saying? When seconds count, the police are only minutes away...

There are already states (Utah, South Dakota, New Hampshire, a couple of others) that allow teachers to carry concealed weapons. Funnily enough, none of these states have ever had a mass shooting. There has been the odd accident with a gun, that's the other side of the coin.

A very important point - made above by Bill'o'Rights - is the publicity. Stop giving the idiots the stage they want. The media should not publish the pictures or names of shooters.

I agree with Clink, Isab and Radwaste, even if they disagree with each other.

Y'know----

> These nut jobs want their 15 minutes
> of fame. The news media needs to stop
> giving them weeks of 24/7 news
> coverage.

> Posted by: Bill O Rights at August 3,
> 2014 7:26 AM

It's not that you're wrong. But remember Amendment #1 at the top of your namesake list... We have no business telling people what to print, and no business telling people what to read.

The fascination which television viewers and other distant people take with these victims is flatly pornographic: It's simplistic, detached, invasive satisfaction from imagining the feelings of others.

And as with a sex film: When people watch these crises on TV and think about them, their daydreams have nothing to do with the probability of it happening, or the actual responses of the people who were there, or the kinds of responsibilities that were answered or ignored in the lives of the people in the footage.

Yeah, Bill: If the media and commenters had sensible principles for discussing these things, and their audiences were equipped with those sensitivities as well, things would be different.

But meanwhile....

A fun, breezy read about similar themes of responsible media management in these modern times.

Have to admit that of the teachers I've met, there are few that I'd trust to properly handle a gun. But if the person can pass the requirements for a concealed-carry permit, then I'm OK with it. As for the students getting hold of the gun, here's a tip: you aren't supposed to just leave it laying around.

"Is she including 'pray that nothing bad happens' as an effective method?"

Way too many people hugely over-value their own gift of gab. They assume that they can actually talk a crazed killer out of murdering them. And teachers are some of the worst.

Teachers have been armed for decades in rural Texas. The police are hours away. I don't remember news stories about teachers shooting their students or students shooting each other with the teacher's gun Clinky.

Also, teachers should not be required to carry a weapon. Some people cannot handle such things safely. They should not be required to. So a conscientious objector option should be available.

And it is not just guns or a personal failing. I worked with a guy who for the life of him just could not safely use an overhead crane. It just didn't click no matter how many times we tried to train him. So we had him do other things and let someone else work the crane.

Like most other situations, just knowing that there is probably one or more people in a school trained with a gun, will be enough to deter crazies looking for an easy target.

Exactly.

The avowed public policy should be that schools have some number of employees that go through periodic training and are carrying concealed weapons.

It doesn't matter what that number is. Only that the psychotic know they have no idea when they will become the target.