Can I get my razor blades subsidized? Or is it the association with a vagina that makes this kind of question somehow sensible?

Idiot...

I posted a comment on a website (won't say which) and it was about big natural boobs.

Suddenly I got a lot of angry messages that I was shaming women who had big boobs.

My comment? "Big natural boobs above a C are a pain to maintain, it's why only girls with big fake boobs can wear anything they want."

"How dare you shame women who have a different body type" was the jist of the various angry messages I got.

How was what I said even remotely offensive?

PPen what you said is so true.

As for tampons, when I'm in public without loose change for the machine, that's what wads of toilet paper are for.

Her tweet could have easily been restated as:

'Twitter friends: Anyone seen my brain? I know I had it a moment ago.'

Apart for the very real likelihood that Valenti's brain has probably filed for a restraining order against her.

Being offended by trivial non-issues is currently a growth industry. Far too many people anchor their perception of self worth on being some sort of 'victim.'

Seems like a pretty good number of these people lament that they aren't getting the kind of public attention that they feel they deserve, so they jump up and down, waving a victim card (tm).

'Please look at me', they wail.

It's quite illustrative to watch this behaviour.

In almost every instance, the kind of things being defined as 'offensive' isn't even on the radar of the average person with a real life, who isn't going to waste the time or energy on something that ultimately doesn't matter.

The best thing is to click the link and read all the "assholes" who responded to her tweet.

OMG! Most are laugh-out-loud funny.

Seriously, in most of the world women use whatever rags they can get their hands on; and this person is wondering why it isn't "free or some how subsidized"?

And Isha Aran is just as crazy: "For a normal human being that has even the most basic grasp of female anatomy and understands that it's biology that women menstruate every month or so, it's not a crazy concept to ponder."

Well, actually, it is a crazy concept to ponder.

She didn't say that she was in favor of subsidized tampons; she simply asked if anyone was aware of a country that did it.

And in response she got comments like this:

"I think she meant where they sell them oversized, for her giant gaping vagina."

"Why haven't you had your ovaries etc. removed yet?"

"cunt"

"here's a thought: get married. Then your husband can pay for it. As long as your putting out...."

I'm appalled and puzzled that you find it amusing that people responded to her question by calling her a cunt. How is that an appropriate response to a question about government and economic policy?

Hopefully, somewhere out there is a blogger who believes in good manners and civility who will find this kind of behavior objectionable.

Incivility in the comments section of an Internet article, oh dear, what is the world coming to? Yes, the comments are offensive. This happens when the article in question says something controversial or (in this case) simply brain dead.

It was a stupid question, a horrible combination of first-world privileged cluelessness plus left-wing "government should pay for my everything" idiocy.

Jezebel then goes on with: "Women have been trying for years to at least keep feminine hygiene products tax free." Um, why? How about soap? My razor blades (see earlier comment)? Shoes? There are lots and lots of necessary products that are subject to sales tax (or VAT, depending on your country). Why, exactly, should tampons be exempt?

Giving examples of all the things that do get tax breaks is arguing the wrong side of the problem. If you are going to have a sales tax (or VAT), the only fair solution is to apply it to everything equally, no exceptions.

I always bought my own and brought them with me when I needed them. What the hell is the big deal? It's called "personal responsibility".

I'm appalled and puzzled that you find it amusing that people responded to her question by calling her a cunt. How is that an appropriate response to a question about government and economic policy?

Hopefully, somewhere out there is a blogger who believes in good manners and civility who will find this kind of behavior objectionable.

I love when somebody decides that my posting about an issue is an endorsement of every single little thing in the post, down to the commas.

Calling someone a "cunt" because she suggests something you disagree with, no, is not an appropriate response.

Which is why I did not post that remark.

I do always love when people go all "gasp!" on me and pull out the fact that I write about manners to make sweeping assumptions.

Thanks, a_random_guy for your response to Jennifer, which I saw after I responded to her comment.

There are countries where feminine product are provided. By charity mostly. Two specifically are charities that give pads to school girls so they can attend school and one that gives moon cups to woman so they can have a more sanitary method of dealing with their menses.

I know I'm coming to this party late. But I really have been saving this one for a while: check your privilege.

Regarding the title of this entry, my first thought was I'm sure there's a cream or a gel that will treat the symptoms.

How was what I said even remotely offensive?

Ppen, it's not -- unless you live to manufacture offense. When someone does, they're suddenly important. They're the offended party. They've offend-shamed you, which is acceptable in the victim-feminist and victim-everythingist world.

I've complained about the same thing. Do you think girls with big fake boobies are offended? Nopies. They are wearing strapless dresses with little or no engineering under them while those of us with the larger...can't remember funny word Elmore used for them...well, we have to go to the Pentagon for militarily engineered bras.

I'm appalled and puzzled that you find it amusing that people responded to her question by calling her a cunt.

She's a British journalist. They were just playing the averages.

> How is that an appropriate response to
> a question about government and
> economic policy?

Government-supplied tampons aren't about "economic policy," they're about about socialism.

A coddled ninny-woman said something stupid, and a coarse respondent —almost certainly male— flew off the handle. (Right? Amirite?)

I can see how that would happen.

> It was a stupid question, a horrible
> combination of first-world privileged
> cluelessness plus left-wing "government
> should pay for my everything" idiocy.

☑

"Horrible." Not 'distasteful, or 'Something I'd be inclined to disagree with'... Horrible.

The Princess Movement, formerly known as the feminism movement, is onto their latest talking point in their drive to obtain cradle-to-grave government support for themselves. Can their be any doubt that feminism (what's left of it) is now nothing more than a special-pleading crony group? Any entity that doesn't exist within that cocoon would be embarrassed to even think of complaining because their personal lives aren't subsidized enough.

@Crid: I find the mix of uninformed privilege with socialism to be pretty "horrible", not least because of the consequences when implemented as government policy. Personal opinion, but there ya go.

Your posts, of course, never contain hyperbole in support of your personal opinion (cough, "coddled ninny-woman", cough).

I kinda think she knew exactly what would happen. Maybe she's doing a paper on how easy it is to make people freak out on the internet. Or how ugly they can be, depending on the topic.

Ms. Valenti has published an article in The Guardian entitled "The Case for Free Tampons" (google 'Jessica Valenti case for free tampons' and you'll find it). Her argument is that feminine hygiene products are necessary and therefore should be free to women. She points out that women in third world countries lose time at work or in school when they lack such products.

Ms. Valenti does not (yet) argue that other essentials of daily living - food, water, shelter, fuel (and don't forget toilet paper) - should also be free.

> never contain hyperbole in support of
> your personal opinion (cough, "coddled
> ninny-woman", cough).

Go ahead, Randy:

• Pretend that's not the most coherent explanation for this.

• Pretend this adoration of socialist impulse is not coming from people who have never, in their entire lives, known even a fleeting instant of actual hunger.

• Argue affirmatively, in a comment to follow, that this is the perspective of someone who's been economically useful to other people; someone who's built a business without government support; someone who's had to hire people and sign their paychecks; someone who's had to terminate a popular & decent under-performer; someone who's had to change their expectations when the income stream grew more slowly than they'd hoped.

Y'know--- Safe, clean, discreetly packaged and readily-disposed tampons are actually kind of new. I'll go look it up after this comment, but I have the sense that they took hold of the US marketplace in the middle of the twentieth century, about the same time that disposable diapers came into our lives. No women of my acquaintance, certainly in my own generation, has every described either product as anything but wonderful, especially compared with the previous solutions. A favorite book put it like this: "Disposable diapers are not an acquired taste."

Short decades later, some women have decided that these products just appear in the air, much like the oxygen that sustains our life at the cellular level.

They're so unimpressed that they think this stunning advance in hygiene should be free.

And when they say "free," they mean that someone else should pay for it.

(There is no such thing as "free.')

Get back to us on this, Randy.

FOOD is "necessary to women"!!!!

Jesus Christ on a stick.

Oh... Wait... DrPinWV suggests that this person thinks only that "feminine hygiene products" should be provided.

So we could go with (somewhat) washable sponges, or cotton rags... The popular solutions heretofore.

Or pads, coarsely manufactured from recycled materials... After all, we shouldn't waste taxpayer money on luxury.

Like anything else: People can buy the best with their own money if they want to...

Amirite?

"FOOD is 'necessary to women'!!!!"

You see where that's going, right?

The Goddess writes: I love when somebody decides that my posting about an issue is an endorsement of every single little thing in the post, down to the commas.

Join the club, Amy. We have mental midgets like Radwaste and lujlp who decide that just because you post about something, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that you agree with it.

I believe the Twitter thing was intentionally designed to promote Valenti's Guardian article, which itself seems to be designed more as click bait than as a sensible proposal for public policy.

In her article Valenti says that the tampon issue "is less an issue of costliness than it is of principle: menstrual care is health care, and should be treated as such. But much in the same way insurance coverage or subsidies for birth control are mocked or met with outrage, the idea of women even getting small tax breaks for menstrual products provokes incredulousness because some people lack an incredible amount of empathy ... and because it has something to do with vaginas."

By this reasoning, almost everything that supports biological processes and thus promotes health could be called "health care." Perhaps Valenti's next article will suggest that gluten-free food is health care and should be free. As Cousin Dave seems to suggest, the list of things that should be free by Valenti's reasoning is endless.

And with her quip about vaginas, Valenti throws down the gauntlet: If you disagree, you are a misogynist.

I'd bet a thousand dollars this columnist has never sent 10¢ of her own money to a distant stranger for feminine hygiene materials... There's not any genuine sisterhood happening in her heart.

This is a kind of whistling in the dark. If she convinces other people that wealth ("free" hygiene) can be made to appear through policy, then she'll no longer have to feel bad for not having contributed anything meaningful to an economy anyway.

For that kind of impulse, taxing the rich is a small price (for her) to pay.

"...designed more as click bait than as a sensible proposal for public policy."

I'm not so sure. Valenti and her crowd have connections inside the Democratic Party. This could be a trial balloon to see how much another government freebie will appeal to women voters.

There's a bunch of stuff here:

1) Should tampons be free in the US?

2) Should women's sanitary products be cheap and readily available around the world?

3) Stuff.

As DrPinWV demonstrates, much of Valenti's argument is about her wanting free tampons in the US because vagina.

I think it's completely reasonable to be totally dubious about that proposition.

Ya know, if she had said that the UN or WHO should do much much more about making sanitary products and health products more available and cheaper in third world countries, hell, no argument there.

Here's the story of a man who ...

"A school dropout from a poor family in southern India has revolutionised menstrual health for rural women in developing countries by inventing a simple machine they can use to make cheap sanitary pads."

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26260978

Back to the US,

Her tweet about seeking countries that provide free tampons seems to have gone unanswered in the affirmative, but it seems reasonable to believe in context that she was not trying to help those in the third world, but was seeking to find examples in the first world to show that the US should also subsidize tampons.

Once again a feminist exploits the third world as justification for some local social program.

Well, as others note, TP is a health and hygiene issue as well, and sad to say, in my life, I need free access to TP more than I need free access to birth control.

I could need T.P. For my bunghole. http://www.stussy.com/beavis-and-butthead-quotes

> This is a kind of whistling in the dark.

Maybe the cardboard ones. More of a duck call with the ones I've played with.

Fugger...

I do wish they were cheaper, that's all I'm gonna say. It seems like there is a big markup on a product that likely does not cost that much to manufacture. I adore having good products, but I do realize that this $7.50 box likely costs a tiny fraction of that to make.

Compared to what similar goods?

We have mental midgets like Radwaste and lujlp who decide that just because you post about something, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that you agree with it.

To be fair you were given dozens of opportunities to state your positions, "Its the law" was your only respose

If you wanna save money just buy the Diva cup.

As I understand it, before tampons were commercially made the women would use old bed sheets and towels to roll their own tampons.

And the prices in Russia was going up a few years ago and they were doing it too.

I do realize that this $7.50 box likely costs a tiny fraction of that to make

The box you are buying, yes. The very first box? Cost quite a bit more. Same model with pretty much any health-care-related product more sophisticated than a cotton ball. Tampons need to be more and more absorbent without killing people (if you think I'm exaggerating that bit, Google "toxic shock syndrome"). I'm not saying tampon makers don't make a profit -- they do. But I don't think it's a lavish one, especially given all the competition from generics.

Now pantyhose, on the other hand….THAT is a racket. (Of course, it may be fading away, too…)

Tampons are not that expensive. I usually pay around $6 for a box of 40; last month they were $4 for 36 at Publix. At that rate you can easily purchase a year's supply for less than $50 and that's for nice plastic tampons, not the cardboard ones. It shouldn't be a prohibitive expense for most women.

"I do realize that this $7.50 box likely costs a tiny fraction of that to make."

Fine,then make them yourself, if it is so fucking easy and cheap.

@lujlp: Crid's not worth getting riled up about. He used to have some good points, but lately he's just incoherent. Either that, or he deliberately misinterprets what people say, just so he can get off a good rant.

Bless your heart, Isab. For everyone who's talking about how cheap tampons are, the kind I use are not. They are never on sale and I rarely find a coupon for them. I like the good ones, where you don't have an accident just because you moved a little to the left too suddenly. I am also very aware that the cost of a single tampon is the same as a single size 1 Pamper's diaper from Wal-Mart. So if I think the manufacturer is overpricing them, oh well - that's my opinion. Crid stay out of this. I didn't say I wouldn't buy them, I just wish they were cheaper. Buying 3 boxes for 3 females a month gets frickin ridiculous. But if you can convince teenagers that they should use the cheapos and trust them to not have an accident at school, be my guest. I won't be holding my breath.

Highly recommend reading jerry's bbc.com article.

There are a number of life lessons, there, all packaged up for easy consumption. All good ones.
And... he gets the girl, in the end.

Random indeed... You never got back to us on the points you were making, and they weren't "misinterpreted."

Perhaps you could cough up a lung.

> Crid stay out of this. 

No.

Isab will let us know if I've got this wrong, but I suspect her point was that if you think this product is mispriced --and people in here are talking as if they know, to the penny, the cost of manufacturing these articles-- well, then they should rent out some shop space and start up a production line.

They should GENERATE SOME WEALTH.

And they should do it long before they start petitioning Congress to provude these goods for "free"... Because that is not possible. There's no such thing as free, especially for taxpayers.

You know Gooseegg, Human beings have been around about half a million years or so, and only the last fifty or so have been with the convenience of tampons.

What ever you may think, they are not a necessity. If I was having a problem footing the bill, I would probably be using the cheap ones, with back up panty liners, in case of accidents.

My mother at 89, spends more on panty liners, than I ever did on tampons.
The expenses of living never end, and somehow most of the world survives without expensive leak proof tampons.

Crid is right, I am somewhat of an expert of industry, and production costs.

Expenses don't end with manufacture. Somehow, you have to take that box of tampons made in some industrial hell hole in China or Indonesia, and deliver them eight thousand miles away to your local WalMart.

Contrary to popular opinion, Santa Claus is not towing them here for free with his sleigh.

Most those cargo ships, and trucks, and trains run on very expensive diesel fuel, not unicorn farts. And the crews, and drivers, don't work for free either.

@gooseegg

If you are truly interested in saving money, tell me what brand, and where you are buying them.
I hope it isn't Walgreens. Their prices are usually double what everyone else's are.

I would be happy to do the research, and tell you: if there are any generic equivalents, where the best prices are, and if you would save money through buying them mail order, which often eliminates the tax.

Crid, my point is that I wish they were cheaper. Not saying I'm gonna stop buying them or change my brand, but that I like the ones I like and I'm sure the manufacturers know they've gotta winner and will keep up the overpriced nature of them. And that's my opinion, I don't know that for sure. That said, I would rather argue the point with Isab, simply cause she has the anatomy to understand my point of view. I well know the other sanitary options and my mom let us all know ad nauseum how good we had it compared to the belts you had to wear that announced to the world you were indeed on the rag. Anyway, my brand of choice is: http://www.walmart.com/ip/U-By-Kotex-Click-Assorted-Tampons/15716547

I like them cause they're small and can fit in your pocket, pull out and click when in place, and do their dang job. They also spread OUT and not longer, so less risk of an accident. Anyway, Isab if you find them cheaper, let me know. I'm waiting for a Sams Club to open near where I live and I'm gonna stock up like a squirrel when that happens. No Publix around here and our Walgreens just closed. I feel very sad now.

> my point is that I wish they were cheaper.

Right, but see how readily the human heart moves from "frickin' ridiculous" to 'Everyone else in my culture should be handling this expense for me.'

I've lived the childless life I wanna live. No, I have no idea how much it costs to park 3 boxes of cotton under 3 females a month. But if you told me that dollar figure, it might sound about right.

I mean, what IS it worth to you? Are we allowed to ask?


We're at this weird point in history where many of the most literate, secure and comfortable people planet has ever hosted think that really great things (Hygiene! Healthcare! Intimate life support!) can, AND SHOULD, be made to happen through paperwork. Through policy, rather than through aspiration and effort.



Do you know what a VG-condition Gibson L-4C (made between 1964 - 1966, with the crucially smaller 1 11/16" nut width) costs?

…Blonde??!?!?! Do you?!

THOUSANDS. Even after the crash archtop prices six years ago: You might pay less than 10G's, but you might not.

And THAT is frickin' ridiculous.

Except that...

There were probably only a couple dozen made to that specification. Ever. Most are treasured by owners who can actually play them, rather than tuneless, stub-fingered wannabees like myself, guys who think the instruments look cool sitting around the house when women come over.

I want one. Why shouldn't I earn it?



Here's the cruel truth: I want women to earn their tampons. I don't care if they think tampons are such a great advance in personal dignity that everyone should have them, just as every American has the right to a trial by a jury of their peers. I want women (or the intimates in their lives who love and support those women) to create the wealth to pay for their tampons. Because tampons are really great.




Listen, Jerry wasn't fucking around yesterday, at lunchtime, when he put it like this:

> 3) Stuff.

He meant that, OK??!?? He understands the implications....

"Mooching Vagina" - yet another phrase that could be worked into the tune "Waltzing Mathilda".

"I'm sure the manufacturers know they've gotta winner and will keep up the overpriced nature of them."

NO! NO!

I've worked in manufacturing long enough to tell you that we are not the ones making the profit. Our margins are very tight.

Plz. People. Leave us out of your cost quibbles.

Why do you people always come after us? We're not the only ones that contribute to price.

I do wish they were cheaper, that's all I'm gonna say. It seems like there is a big markup on a product that likely does not cost that much to manufacture. I adore having good products, but I do realize that this $7.50 box likely costs a tiny fraction of that to make.
___________________________________

Indeed. Amy Dacyczyn (in The Complete Tightwad Gazette) pointed out that they cost as much as disposable diapers - despite there being less material involved.
____________________________________

This is how business works.

Buy the generics at the drugstore when they're on sale.

Buy a bunch of boxes.

Being frugal takes good planning.
____________________________

Or buy The Keeper instead, which comes in two sizes, is made of gum rubber, and in the experience of many, lasts more than 20 years - and while it's a bit pricey, it pays for itself in a year or so. One still needs thin panty liners, but with practice, a package of 30 for $1 can last about 6 months. Very frugal indeed.

Ppen, I equate the price to something you want like a good box of tampons to the overpriced nature of printer ink. It's high, I know it is, everyone knows it is, but I need it and I'm gonna buy it and everyone knows it so nothing ever changes. Demand-supply and HP wins that one. I figure Kotex isn't going out of business anytime soon either.

Crid, my independent human heart does not look for reimbursement for life's little expenses, even when I am afforded them. I complain like a good American. But I do not put my hand out. Not for internet reimbursement from my employer to which I am owed bunches, and not to pay for my pricey tampons that I will not live without.

"Ppen, I equate the price to something you want like a good box of tampons to the overpriced nature of printer ink. It's high, I know it is, everyone knows it is, but I need it and I'm gonna buy it and everyone knows it so nothing ever changes"

What do you think could change? Perhaps you think a boycott might drive down prices?

Or that the cost of raw materials, labor, and transportation might magically go down rather than up, with the feds printing money by the pallet load for the last six years?

Are you one of those people who thinks that if we all decide not to buy gas one day, that the oil companies way down the chain who pump it out of the ground, and sell it to the refineries, even know or care?

Do you think the price of products is plucked out of thin air, by some manufacturer trying to stick it to the consumer?

If so, you have been reading too much socialist propaganda, and your ignorance of basic economics is telling.

I don't print many things anymore.
The novelty of producing full color graphics at home has kind of worn off for many of us.

Oh, and if you think printer ink is expensive, try calculating in the cost of gas, to drive down to Kinkos, and get them to do it for you.

However, I do think that paying 7 bucks or so for a months worth of tampons, which is less than the price of lunch at most medium priced chain restaurants, is a very good deal indeed.

I think if you were willing to sacrifice the tiny packaging, and stick with the more important characteristic of super absorbing, and no leaks, you could get by for a lot less.

For a lot of people, convenience has a value.
You are being super picky, getting a great product for an extremely reasonable price, in these inflationary times, and still, it is not enough?

You live in the most prosperous safe country, that has ever existed, and the price of tampons is an issue for you?

> I complain like a good American.

We know! We know, and we love you for it.

IJS.

There's a potent kind of stupidity happening out there, now seen in people who ought to know better. When those stupid people hear normal Americans complaining about prices, it reinforces their presumption that prices are policies rather than market signals.

You gotta be careful with replacement cell phone batteries... People make ones that are the right size but have weak chemistry and drain too quickly.

Couldn't remember the tune... Could only think of "My Darling Clementine"—

♬

Mooching Va-GI-na,
Mooching Va-GI-na.... 🎶

BTW, Wiki says it's not about dancing, and it's not about a German girl.

"We have mental midgets like Radwaste and lujlp who decide that just because you post about something, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that you agree with it."

Not only did you refuse to clarify your position when asked for it, you now smear others for doing so and attempt constantly to blame your audience for not reading your mind.

You're making gay men look bad.

And I guess the previous thread made no impression at all...