My favorite, when someone does something or says something that hurts you, and they know it, and say to you, when you point it out, "I'm sorry you feel that way". WTF is that supposed to do, make it all better?

I've heard that an apology can be used as an admission of guilt in legal proceedings. So there is a logical reason for some of what i agree is rude behavior.

I don't know, Amy. Look at how much of life has been lawfare-ized -- people are looking over their shoulder all the time now. The mindset becomes so pervasive that even when there is no question of law involved, it's reflexive to go into talk-to-the-hand mode. Yeah, your neighbor's an asshole, but assholes are who get ahead in society today. Throwing responsibility for your actions on other people -- that works. All that apologizing does is get you in more trouble.

Good points, Amy.

Let's not forget, though, that there IS such a thing as over-apologizing, and there are unreasonable people who get offended when they expect an undeserved apology and don't get it.

I haven't read Jim Belushi's "Real Men Don't Apologize," but I suspect he addresses that problem.

And, in the humor collection "Pulling Our Own Strings," one editor was Mary Kay Blakely, who wrote an essay about why women need to start a strike on saying 'I'm sorry.' It was very eye-opening, and a one-sentence summary might be: "Learn to substitute the words 'that's a shame' at least four out of five times."

Excerpt:

"At home, when your son moans that he's late for the school dance and you haven't washed his shirt yet, don't say 'I'm sorry.' Remind him that you possess perhaps the only equal-opportunity washing machine in the neighborhood - it works for anybody who pushes the buttons. At work when the chair of the meeting asks for someone to take the minutes and everybody turns to you, the only woman in the room, don't say 'I'm sorry.' Demonstrate your knowledge of biology and remind them that shorthand skills are not genetic in women. The next time your family itemizes the services not rendered, don't say 'I'm sorry.' Suggest that someone else will have to pick up the slack. When the Hare Krishna makes a plea for money at your door, don't say 'I'm sorry.' Mention that a few adjustments in his attire might result in landing a paid position."

"I'm Sorry, You're Sorry":

http://books.google.com/books?id=eyK52OvOMb0C&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=%22i'm+sorry,+you're+sorry%22++blakeley&source=bl&ots=UbnnxkIEAy&sig=4qtSZLhQ6p5qU9xQBLX6dZvK3nw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ylumUtyAJfSksQTfh4CwBw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22i'm%20sorry%2C%20you're%20sorry%22%20%20blakeley&f=false

You may have to click on the title when you see it. (I don't care much for the unrelated cartoon that just happens to be above the essay - it's embarrassing for more than one reason.)

I've asked him nicely a number of times to not boom his radio when he comes to our neighborhood. (He, in fact, will sit in his car booming it in the city lot across from our houses.) Asshole.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at August 11, 2014 6:29 AM

Apologies are just words. Often uttered insincerely, in place of actually changing the offending behavior.

They may make the offended party feel better, for a few scant seconds, but they are underused for the big stuff as MarkD correctly points out, and over used for all sorts of counterproductive reasons, which Lenona addresses.

Watch what they do, not what they say..

> Watch what they do, not what they say..

Similarly.

It's summer, so what comes out? Those middle-class guys in their 50's and 60's with those super loud and obnoxious Harley-Davidsons. They purposely make them as loud as they can. Funny thing is, they will bitch and whine if some kid drives by with a car booming and bassing. Basically, Harley rider = total douche-nozzle.

Haters gonna hate.

Anyone got ideas for what to tell a delinquent client of mine? She's over two months late on her last bill. She knows it, too. I'm afraid if I alienate her, she'll "just call someone else" and stiff me anyway. She's my only client at that location, and it's a fact that when I lose my last client anywhere, I get no more calls from there.

Dr Tara Palmatier [shrink4men.com] uses this term "DARVO". It means Deny, Attack, Reverse-the-Victim-and-Offender. It's a typical sociopathic response to being called out for bad behaviour.

Jefe, I'm a Dr. T fan too. As for your client, since you've apparently resigned yourself to not getting paid by this client, the only thing I can suggest is call her occasionally and sweet-talk her a bit; thank her for being such a wonderful client, etc. (If she wants to do more business with you, politely say your schedule is full.) She may wake up in an odd mood one morning and decide to pay you on the spur of the moment, and there's an outside chance it will stop her from bad-mouthing you to prospective clients. No, none of this is likely to work, but at this point you've got nothing to lose.

lenona, what you said - absolutely.

I had forgotten that I had learned that lesson already. It's not that I don't apologize when I'm wrong. It's that I no longer say it all the time.

When I was in my 20's I joined an intramural mixed volleyball team. It was great fun. But the best thing that I took away from that, was that I said "I'm sorry," WAY too often. I missed a ball, "I'm sorry!" I set badly, "I'm sorry!" I heard myself saying it - the rest of the team did too - and it got to be irritating enough for them to point it out to me, bluntly. A season of volleyball, and I was cured.

Anyone got ideas for what to tell a delinquent client of mine? She's over two months late on her last bill.

Sell the debt to a bill collector and write off the difference as a business expense on your taxes

Apologies are just words. Often uttered insincerely, in place of actually changing the offending behavior.

Posted by: Isab at August 11, 2014 9:27 AM
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Which is why a responsible parent will, after the child turns 3 or so, start saying to the child: "OK. You said you're sorry. Now what are you going to do to prove it?"

As any psychologist will tell you, it's our actions that mold our attitudes rather than the other way around, most of the time. Which is why Miss Manners has no patience with those parents who argue that it's teaching little kids "hypocrisy" to make them say and do things they don't mean, like saying "please" and "thank you" and "I'm sorry" - and writing thank-you notes for gifts they didn't like. (After all, why should Grandma send you another gift that you MIGHT like when you didn't even acknowledge her generosity the first time?)

Besides, many parents will tell you that even when you DO put kids through the motions of common courtesy from day one, it can take ten years or so before they develop any sense of empathy, humility or gratitude. Imagine how much longer it WOULD take if...come to think of it, maybe most kids would never develop such qualities at all if you didn't make them.

It actually takes a big person to admit to having been small and piggy. Humans are prone to self-justification--the ego-protecting tendency to insist we're right and to shove away any evidence to the contrary. You need self-respect and strength of character to cough up the admission "I was wrong."
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I suspect this is a very American thing, unfortunately. Which is why the image of "The Ugly American" persists.

Also, it has to do with the confusion between self-respect and self-esteem. You won't catch me using the latter term in a positive way. Self-esteem is typically about putting yourself first/loving yourself first for no good reason, up to the point of psychotic narcissism. (Many violent convicts are described as having high self-esteem.) Whereas self-respect is about doing all sorts of unpleasant things to yourself for your own good, such as dieting, exercising, studying, and yes, apologizing for doing something bad - e.g., something childish. Adults can't be childish and keep their self-respect.

There's a Rosemond column on the difference:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/11/07/and_all_the_chi.html

Excerpt:

"It is, in fact, axiomatic that self-respect cannot exist without respect for others."

Scroll halfway down to where I quoted from it.

If you want the whole column and don't mind the religious overtones (I mind them), here it is:

http://www.parentingbythebook.com/Matthew-535.html

"I suspect this is a very American thing, unfortunately. Which is why the image of "The Ugly American" persists."

This is total bullshit. Having lived overseas, I have seen rude behavior by all different nationalities, and races.

The image of the ugly American persists because Europeans and others who are envious of our wealth, freedom, and American technological superiority feel they need a better excuse to dislike us.

You should hear the nationalist bullshit circulating in Japan about why and how the Japanese lost World War II.

Samurai swords were never lost on the battlefield, they were stolen by American occupation forces from Japanese homes after the war, yada, yada, yada.