From the wapo,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-fraternity-to-rebut-claims-of-gang-rape-in-rolling-stone/2014/12/05/5fa5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

The liberal Mantra
Truth? We don't need no stinkin' truth?

WAPO has updated their story w/ statements from the friends Jackie called that night. They're saying that she'd told them that she'd been forced to perform oral sex on multiple guys, and that while she was upset, she wasn't injured or overwrought.

This sounds more plausible. It may be that she'd engaged in a consensual sexual encounter that got out of hand, and that she felt humiliated. That could explain why she fabricated such a dramatic account of deception and rape. She wanted to get back at the guys who used her but didn't want anyone to know what had really happened.

Erm, if she was forced to perform oral sex it wasn't consensual.

That said, the fact that she says that this Drew fellow said "I had a great time the other night" leads me to think that it either didn't happen, or there was some reasonable reason for him to think it was consensual.

Perhaps they hung around and she mentioned being into gang-bangs or something. I mean, group rape fantasies are not uncommon... doesn't mean someone wants it IRL, though. I'm wondering if there was some sort of mix-up.

But it may not have started w/o consent, things may have escalated. She may have offered to give them BJs because she was afraid they were going to rape her otherwise. That could have implied to them that she was into it, but in her mind it was something she was doing to protect herself.

Something that's become apparent w/ all of the discussion of sexual assaults on campuses is that there are a lot of incidents that aren't fully consensual but also don't involve force or coercion. People blame drinking but I also suspect that you've got a lot of young guys who've grown up exposed to our hypersexualized pop culture who genuinely believe that thuggish sexual behavior is normal and acceptable.

People blame drinking but I also suspect that you've got a lot of young guys who've grown up exposed to our hypersexualized pop culture who genuinely believe that thuggish sexual behavior is normal and acceptable.

Posted by: jerkie at December 7, 2014 12:38 PM

Define *thuggish*.

I suspect it means being approached by anyone you don't find immediately sexually attractive.

Men are expected to be mind readers, and women get a pass for being falling down drunk.

meh, there is no way this doesn't go bad... The truth, whatever it is, is largely irrelevant now. Essentially fact will only confirm a small amount, whatever it is.

RS and their intrepid reporter have caused a trainwreck, and I can't decide which side they are on. I'm assuming they were looking for a story that would prove all the worst things about frat life and by extension college men...
But they could hardly have caused more damage if they had been trying to.

Seems to happen that regular story is never good enough, never 'pops' enough, and so where once was embellishment, now is reckless changing in lurid detail.

Thuggish as in rap thug - they want to emulate the degenerate black strip club culture that's promoted in rap songs, where all women are whores who want to ride your d*ck for money and status. Hang out in a college town for a while to see what I"m getting at.

> they could hardly have caused more
> damage if they had been trying to.

That is a really great point.

Ederly insists that she means well: But if she didn't, what could she have written that would have been as destructive? What could have given more nourishment to the "rape culture" she imagines to be present?

A favorite aphorism goes something like this: Never ascribe to iniquity that which can be explained by incompetence.

Great comment, Swiss. ☑

Thuggish as in rap thug - they want to emulate the degenerate black strip club culture that's promoted in rap songs, where all women are whores who want to ride your d*ck for money and status. Hang out in a college town for a while to see what I"m getting at.

Posted by: jerkie at December 7, 2014 2:39 PM

You have a vivid imagination.

See this msnbc video with RS writer as the hero:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/12/06/msnbc_panelist_we_live_in_a_culture_that_hates_women.html

"We live in a culture that hates women." No one challenges her or her charge that being a member of a fraternity makes you 3x as likely to rape.

RS crafted the story before they found someone willing to be their case in point. Kind of like the DA who needed the story of Duke LaCrosse to be true to get re-elected. He hated the jocks and it was payback time. Jocks victimize a poor black townie. Who wouldn't believe that? Same with Sabrina Rubin Erdley.

I think Jackie may be mentally ill. Something wrong may have happened to her, and the story got bigger and bigger as she made friends in the survivor groups. This may not be equivalent, but in recovery group therapy, they stopped having us name all of our issues because there started to be a case of "who has had it worse" in the sharing dept. Perhaps that kind of "one-up" stuff happens in survivor groups too.

"A favorite aphorism goes something like this: Never ascribe to iniquity that which can be explained by incompetence."

Never ascribe to incompetence that which can be explained by avarice.

People blame drinking but I also suspect that you've got a lot of young guys who've grown up exposed to our hypersexualized pop culture who genuinely believe that thuggish sexual behavior is normal and acceptable. - jerkie

Pop culture or life experience, guys want sex more than wymyn, so we get call "hypersexualized" but any guy will tell you, (whether with pride, consternation, bitterness, or resignation) chicks tend to date men who dont treat them like porcelain princesses.

As long as we are throwing blame around, I blame feminists for rape cause on their advice some women dont say no.

There are only two types of guys who still proceed when a woman says stop, rapists and guys too drunk to control their impulses also known as rapists. Decent guys, and even douchebag assholes stop when a woman says stop

By REFUSING to say 'no' or 'stop' these women are creating a situation where they think they are being assaulted and the guys thinks shes playing hard to get.

Unless drugged or passed out any woman who does not say no/stop when they feel uncomfortable is aiding and abetting her own rape.

Saying no wont stop a rapist, it will however stop most of these "rapes" from occuring

"Never ascribe to incompetence that which can be explained by avarice."

Hey, you stole my aphorism!

> RS crafted the story before they
> found someone willing to be their
> case in point.

I strongly, strongly agree with you.

And, thing is, Murphy, this is one of the most obvious and common sins in the worlds of journalism and reportage... When I was in school, it was called "Writing your headline on the way to your story." That aphorism would caution against a milder sin: Carrying so many assumptions while reporting an event that the weight of printed information would be misplaced.

And no journalist has said as much as concisely as you have!

But a blind child of seven could see that most of this piece had been written, if only in Ederly's heart, many years ago. She searched all over the country for a scarecrow suitable for animation, and then found one. She slammed her own developmental issues into the narrative of a troubled and simple-minded young woman... And when that young woman had the adult good sense to pull back and withdraw from the project, she was told she couldn't, that the story was going to be published anyway.