I have no doubt that exploitation through reality tv and exploiting transgenderism through the media is changing the world. I think its naive to expect these changes to have one-sided, positive results leading to a better world. A man wanting to be a woman negates the feminist assertion that gender is a social construct. Is the patriarchy forcing feminine traits and attitudes on Bruce? Isn't Bruce just taking on stereotypes of femininity?

There are plenty of feminists against the transgendered. They are called TERFs. Plenty of non-radical feminists as well calling the trans transformation process mutilation. Steinman and Paglia are two off the top of my head. They are also hated by homosexuals. Lesbians because they view them as modifying their bodies into the female "stereotype" or confirming the stereotype that lesbians actually want to be male. Gay men for similar reasons. Then within the transgendered community the hatred is focused on those that can "pass" as phonies wanting to conform and hide from a society that hates them.

Despite how much Kim Kardashian is hated every person that has interacted with her calls her sweet. Before Bruce came out all her interviews have been supportive without giving away his secret. The rest of the family has been somewhat silent.

I like these kinds of stories. Jenner always had this rumor following him around. To know that someone as successful and accomplished was unhappy because he felt the need to conform. Really there is no purpose in it if you have some deep shit that conflicts with it. His coming out will hopefully bring more acceptance to the transgendered. It's someone that people actually know and respect as an athlete.

Exactly, Ppen.

To know that someone as successful and accomplished was unhappy because he felt the need to conform. Really there is no purpose in it if you have some deep shit that conflicts with it. His coming out will hopefully bring more acceptance to the transgendered.

Really, I'm reminded of people who say being gay is "a choice." The notion that anyone would choose to go through the social and emotional hardships that gay people do is just ridiculous.

I was talking to a lesbian friend of mine the other night and I wondered whether I could be or become attracted to her (or women in general). Nope. When I see a woman, I don't want to jump her; I want to look at her shoes.

Everyone feels the need to conform, in some aspect of their lives. It is what we do as humans to exist in society. We provide support to our loved ones, and if we are healthy and loving, worry more about their needs, than we do our own.

To me, sex change operations are another facet of malignant narcissism or other unhealthy mental issues. It it like a plastic surgery junkie on steroids.

Especially, by the time you are 65 you ought to be focused on some other contribution to humanity than "I gotta be Meeeee"

And switching out your gonads,

By the way, my husband had a transgender employee working for him. They guy and then girl, had serious mental issues way before the sex change. There was nothing happy about his life, and afterwards, there was still nothing happy about her life. Still a basket case, taking a whole boat full of psychiatric meds.

I understand he came out as a Republican. Twitter h8mob to form in 3..2..1...

I'm with Isab on this. I worked at a transgender health clinic for awhile and transcribed medical records for a surgery center that did the conversions. Extensive mental health evaluations were done on these people and I have never found one that didn't have a ton of psychiatric issues both before and after their change. The change made no difference and seemed little more than attention-seeking behavior like those who always threaten suicide. They were deeply depressed and acting out. It doesn't really matter if they are getting positive or negative attention just so long as they were being noticed and getting it. Some people also thrive on victimhood.

How is being gay, trans, etc. not a choice when there is not genetic, physical, or other biologic evidence to prove its existence? Sure, there are very few exceptions where babies were born and reassigned gender due to deformities and things like that, but you are either genetically male or female. It's a psychological issue to want to become the opposite or do things against genetics. I'm tired of people trying to force abnormal and alternate lifestyles on the rest of society and death be to those who don't agree with it or dare to voice their opposing views.

Those who transition younger seem to do much better.

To call this some facet of "malignant narcissism" is just ridiculous.

Bruce Jenner felt a desire to wear dresses as a child. This is not a thing the average 8-year-old boy sees there's a welcoming home for in society. This is not some choice for people to get attention. I suspect that contention to be a cover by onlookers for their own discomfort with this.

And sure, it's weird, and I can't say I understand the feeling. But Kanye West's statement to Kim that he couldn't live with not being himself really resonated with her and resonates with me.

I just feel compassion for people for whom that requires hormones and societal staring and worse.

"I'm tired of people trying to force abnormal and alternate lifestyles on the rest of society"

One party. One nation. One fuhrer!

Seriously, who cares why you're tired? Maybe you have an iron deficiency, or a surplus of self-righteousness. I hear that's just exhausting.

What the heck is "the soul of a female"?

I dunno... wear what you want, groom how you want. I'm all for relaxing gender role standards, but I have a hard time seeing how it makes you the opposite sex if you like some of the cultural stuff that goes with it.

Good for him for coming out.

I watched the interview last night and have the same feeling, Amy. I don't know why it took him so long, especially since he started hormone treatments quite some time ago, but regardless of his reasons for putting it off, at least he's finally done it.

I still have two memories of Jenner from back in the '70s. First, I was in summer school at the U. of Oregon in 1975 when Jenner was doing some training at Hayward Field (another well-known athlete, long-distance runner Steve Prefontaine, was killed in a car crash in Eugene in May of that same year.) Then, during the summer of 1976, two friends and I took a 6-week road trip from Chicago to Cape Hatteras, up the Eastern seaboard to Canada and then down the St. Lawrence River and we stopped in Montreal for the Olympics. Although we weren't there on the day that Jenner won the decathlon, I remember his triumph very well.

*

IRA: I understand he came out as a Republican. Twitter h8mob to form in 3..2..1...

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Hate mobs on the left, of course. There will also be mobs on the right, hating him for his gender identity. A transgendered Republican Christian? Pat Robertson's head will likely explode.

*

Isab: To me, sex change operations are another facet of malignant narcissism or other unhealthy mental issues.

I'm not surprised you feel that way.

I'm sure there are people who feel "trapped in the wrong body" who have mental health issues but if that's true for some it doesn't mean it's true for all, or even most.

*

BunnyGirl: How is being gay, trans, etc. not a choice when there is not genetic, physical, or other biologic evidence to prove its existence?

I'm a straight guy and I'm attracted to women. Always have been. As a young boy, I didn't wake up one morning and decide "Y'know, I'm going to choose to be attracted to girls." I just was. If straight people don't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex, why is that gays & lesbians are supposed to choose to be attracted to the same sex? Why does it seem so far-fetched to you -- and others like you -- that who you're attracted to can be innate?

Here's something for both you & Isab to ponder: What Causes Transsexualism?

Many causes for transsexualism have been proposed over the years. As discussed earlier in Lynn's TG/TS/IS information, it's long been known from intersex data that the genes do not determine gender identity, and recent follow-ups on intersex infant surgeries show that consistency of "genitals and upbringing" does not determine gender identity. Instead, current scientific results strongly suggest neurobiological origins for transsexualism: Something appears to happen during the in-utero development of the transsexual child's central nervous system (CNS) so that the child is left with innate, strongly perceived cross-gender body feelings and self-perceptions. We still don't know for sure what causes this neurological development, and more research needs to be done. But the neurobiological direction for these explorations seem clear. However, even without any scientific evidence to back them up, many psychiatrists and psychologists over the past four decades have simply assumed that transsexualism is a "mental illness". By DEFINING this socially unpopular condition to be a mental illness, these mental health professionals have shaped much of the medical establishment's and society's views of transsexuals as psychopathological "sexual deviants".

One party. One nation. One fuhrer!

Good one, Gog!

When the Fourth Rabbit Reich is established, everyone will be required to have their lifestyle approved by Fräulein BunnyGirl. Heil Häschenmädchen!

I thought the distaste he showed when insisting that he's not gay and never did "any of that stuff," i.e., sex with other men, was troubling.

He kept saying that what you feel inside and who you're attracted to are different. Well, sure. But when I put together what sex I feel myself to be and which sex I'm attracted to, I come out heterosexual. Change either of those and I'd be gay. So if Jenner is a woman inside and he's attracted solely to women, why does he shrink visibly from saying he's a lesbian?

(I have a colleague who is a transgender woman. Before transitioning, she was married to a woman; now she's married to a different woman. Her orientation didn't change, and she and her second wife have no trouble describing themselves as lesbians. Makes sense to me.)

How is being gay, trans, etc. not a choice when there is not genetic, physical, or other biologic evidence to prove its existence?

But there is. Homosexual behavior has been observed in the many of the "Superclass Tetrapoda" species, which includes mammals, reptiles, birds, and amphibians.

As homosexuality exists in species without a mind, it can not be a disorder of the mind.

And as studies on inter sex chickens have shown, gender is stamped on each and every individual cell.

It could be the folks quite literally have clusters of their brain that are a different sex than the rest of their body

"by the time you are 65 you ought to be focused on some other contribution to humanity than "I gotta be Meeeee' "

Yeah what an unaccomplished, irresponsible,
narcissistic asshole to wait to do this until after having achieved enormous athletic success and all his children are grown.

BunnyGirl,

There is ample biological evidence for homosexuality, though I don't know of much for transgenderism (not saying there isn't, just that I don't know of any). While the actual mechanism is not currently known there is good evidence it is not genetic. But being non-genetic doesn't mean chosen. There is strong evidence for heritability of homosexuality but it is not a strongly heritable trait. A gay father or lesbian mother most likely will not have gay or lesbian children.

JD,

' So if Jenner is a woman inside and he's attracted solely to women, why does he shrink visibly from saying he's a lesbian?'

Maybe he is asexual. Some people aren't attracted to anyone.

I didn't know there was another JD on here (post at 1:12 pm.) What are the odds? Hi fellow JD.

I'm as puzzled as you are as to why he couldn't say he's a lesbian. Ben's idea is plausible. In fact, I think he described himself that way to Sawyer. But, assuming he still is attracted to women, then I don't know.

So, apparently Bruce Jenner also says he wants to be referred to with masculine pronouns (him, he, etc.) and still wants to be called Bruce. So, he feels totally woman, wants to look like a woman, has "the soul of a woman", etc., but still in all ways be referred to as a man and use his male name? Something seems "off" with that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

@JD

Please read the article linked above, and then using logic and reason, and the current state of psychiatric criteria, distinguish between these sick people, and other sick people who think the solution to their problems is to either chop off or add a penis.

And note to Amy, there are boys who like to wear dresses and women's underwear who have no desire to actually become the opposite sex. They are called cross dressers.

I am trying to figure out when it became a badge of honor in our society to focus one's entire life around your gender or your sexual preferences.

I was hoping the interview would be more interesting. Like where he would say that he chose to be a woman, as if it was no big deal, and what's the fuss if his loved ones were supportive of it, really.

And then spent the rest of the time discussing how we need to be more attentive while driving on the highway because two months ago he had plowed into car and pushed it across the centerline into oncoming traffic where a head-on collision killed the driver.

That would've been brave.

Drive safe out there, gang. There's lots of mothers, fathers and kids out there. Seriously.

Marriage and parenthood have always been (and always will be) badges of honor, in every society (with the exception of subgroups like monks and nuns), and they're a clear trumpeting of one's sexuality.

I am trying to figure out when it became a badge of honor in our society to focus one's entire life around your gender or your sexual preferences. - Isab

The impulse of humanity has always been slightly narcissistic, but third wave feminism, in the late 80's made that impulse a cause to be celebrated at every turn

I'm trying to figure out how a person manages to go through life with so little compassion for somebody who feels agonized about not living as who they really are so they can fit in -- and maybe avoid being murdered.

Posted by: Amy Alkon Author Profile Page at April 25, 2015 11:51 PM

I have a lot of compassion for the mentally ill. I just don't think the the current trend of indulging mental illness when it takes a socially popular form, like wanting a sex change. Is a particularly good way to treat mental illness.

I also find it hard to understand how you can have so little compassion for the mentally ill who are alcoholics, and drug addicts, telling them on these boards in the past that it is a bad habit, that they could just stop if they had any willpower,

while at the same time give a ringing endorsement of sanity to anyone who wants to chop off their penis, and wear a dress to self threat their mental illness.

"And note to Isab, I get letters from cross dressers weekly. Do you find that condescending thing is a successful tactic for you.

Here's my column from 2006 on cross-dressing:"

It isn't a tactic. It is a question.

When you have a five year old boy child who likes to wear dresses, or a five year old girl who wants to wear jeans and play with trucks, how do you determine at that point if they are a normal kid, with a temporary fixation, a dedicated cross dresser, or transgender?

I say you can't, the child certainly can't, and if you, or any psychiatrist says they can, with any degree of accuracy at all. they are a fraud.

There is indication that the brains of transgendered are whatever gender they want to change into. Same with people who want to cut their limbs off, their brains are not recognizing they have a limb. But unless you can tell me of a treatment that changes the brain then the best course of action IS to allow a sex change. Not every transgendered individual does the bottom surgery and most seem satisfied with just taking hormones (2/3 I believe). It's almost like that resets their brains. So again what do you propose people do? You have nothing except they ignore and live with their condition. That's impossible, same as is impossible for me to ignore I'm bipolar.

There is no purpose in what you propose (not changing the gender) than there is in telling me how I SHOULD live my life having bipolar. There is treatment for neither but you better believe if I could change something physical about myself than I would.

And that last sentence is why it is debatable whether being transgendered is a mental illness. The new DSMV changed that..

Isab to Amy: I have a lot of compassion for the mentally ill. I just don't think the the current trend of indulging mental illness when it takes a socially popular form, like wanting a sex change. Is a particularly good way to treat mental illness.

"Socially popular"...that's a good one, Isab.

Nicholas Kristof:

Remember Matthew Shepard, the 21-year-old gay university student in Wyoming who in 1998 was tied to a fence, badly beaten and left to die? That was seen as the ultimate hate crime and now seems to belong to a different era.

Yet, just so far this year, at least three transgender people have been reported murdered in the United States. The Human Rights Campaign issued a report the other day listing 13 transgender women murdered in 2014: They were shot, strangled, burned and beaten.

“Violence is something that is disproportionately affecting transgender people — and for specific reasons,” says Elizabeth Halloran of the Human Rights Campaign. “Inability to access employment, housing and safety-net services, as well as family rejection, all conspire to create a reality that makes transgender people — especially transgender people of color, transgender women and transgender people living poverty — more vulnerable to violence.”

10:46 AM ET
Being transgender no longer a mental 'disorder' in diagnostic manual

The new DSM eliminates the term "gender identity disorder," long considered stigmatizing by mental health specialists and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender activists.

That old diagnosis meant that a man who believed he was destined to be a woman was considered mentally ill.

No longer so.

The new DSM refers to "gender dysphoria," which focuses the attention on only those who feel distressed by their gender identity.

"I think it's a significant change," said Jack Drescher, a member of the American Psychiatric Association group that made the recommendation after working on it for four years. "It's clinically defensible, but it reduces the amount of stigma and harm that existed before."

Drescher said there had been calls to remove the diagnosis altogether just as homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1973.** Drescher said he believes that removal changed world opinion on homosexuality.

But gender dysphoria was left as a diagnosis to ensure that a transgender person could still access health care if needed. Hormone treatment would be one example. Another would be counseling for those who need help dealing with their emotions.

** It wouldn't surprise me if Isab feels that homosexuality is also a mental illness and that it was wrong to remove it from the DSM.

I have to admit I don't understand it. But I don't have to. All I have to do is tolerate it. That's the beauty of a free country.

Um, we don't make determinations about people at 5, and from their clothing preferences alone, and nor did I say we did or should.

***

"We" don't but people do, I keep reading stories about kindergarteners who declare themselves to be the opposite gender and then the schools have to let them use that bathroom. Usually the explanation is "I like tutus and My Little Ponies so I'm a girl" or "I like trucks and superhero capes so I'm a boy".

I think that's what worries me in all this... why can't people just like what they like?

"I have to admit I don't understand it. But I don't have to. All I have to do is tolerate it. That's the beauty of a free country."

Cousin Dave for the win.

Amy, I'd be careful about quoting Kristof, and that bit about Matthew Shephard is a good example of why. Shephard wasn't murdered by men in a panic over being propositioned by a gay man - once all the evidence was in, it appears he was murdered in a robbery gone wrong, by bisexual or gay predators who used a sexual lure to get Shephard alone. Kristof is a fool with idealogical blinders.

I have to admit I don't understand it. But I don't have to. All I have to do is tolerate it. That's the beauty of a free country.

That's exactly how I feel about the Republican party!

Amy, I'd be careful about quoting Kristof,

markm, I'd be careful about who you say is quoting whom. This is a blog, with a comments section, and the format involves many people who are not "Amy" commenting. You can see this by the little names other than "Amy" under their comments.